Why is land so expensive in Thailand? Is it?!

[GreasyFingers]

I wish land in Khao Kho was as cheap as mentioned here. In the process of looking now and the cheapest we have found so far is 1,500,000 per rai in a small village. If you want to buy in one of the hi-so new subdivisions you are looking between 2M - 4M per rai. They say they have sold most of their lots but no one is building houses. As others here have said it maybe the lack of land tax that makes it cheap to hold but they are still relying on the bigger fool theory when spending that much.

[chiang mai]

In your post you state that in UK 1 Rai = 2.5 acres. Is an acre in UK different than a US acre? I thought a Rai is a fraction of an acre.

In fact one acre = 2.5 rai.

[ChrisKC]

Where farang are involved many things will have higher value placed on them, including land.

Don't use Agents - get "inside" information from Thai friends, initially using them to negotiate.

It's not only about supply and demand: often, it is the circumstances of the Seller that might determine price.

[recycler]

In most places in the world the price of common land and real estate is defined by what the bank wants to loan for it.

In Thailand it's getting quite irrational in some places, but as long as the bank loans and the people take the loans it will go on.

The bank is at relatively low risk charging high interest rates and with the property as collateral they only loose when the property value collapses.

[BudRight]

Comparing some place upcountry to Sydney is not apples-to-apples. Compare it to central Bangkok and you'll see the same price difference.

Compare it to a plot in Northern Australia and that's more like it.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BudRight

[impulse]

Even wine growing land in California is cheaper.

In California, you never really own the land. You own the right to use the land for specific permitted purposes, as long as you pay rent in the form of property taxes.

The difference being that the "rent" (taxes) you pay in California provides funding for:

- A well-trained police force that actually does their job

- A fire protection force that has proper training and equipment

- An education system that actually educates children

- Construction and maintenance of infrastructure (water, sewers, local roads, etc)

- Transparent local government and enforcement of safety and zoning regulations (want a pig farm next to your new home?)

Thailand, which has no "rent", provides none of the above.

But you (arguably) get those things in California whether you pay taxes on a million acres or you own no land at all.

[bitcoinforever]

1 rai inside Pai if you can find it is 6 million. 1 Rai inside moat Chiang Mai 42,000,000. 1 Rai Hang dong 24,000 baht a tal wan. It is a Land bank there are no carry cost to own land in Thailand better returns then bank interest rates.Tthats why people are realizing that especially as the thai economy heads the way of the rest to negative interest rates.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Condos....on sukhumvit, more expensive than Melbourne now.

We have rice land for sale, 5 mil per rai. ....

What the what what? What have you been smoking?

Actually you are the one that needs to lay off the pipe. Literally 3 days ago I went to see Lumpini 24 (on suk24) and the developer wanted 6.1 million for 29 sqm.

Now I don't know about Melbourne, but in Toronto prime area I can get larger studio in luxury building for less money with the added benefit of knowing it will never turn to a ghetto.

[gyrosman]

Yes, of course because they know that a Frang boyfriend will pay that price for his girlfriend? And after she's your wife you'll be paying all the taxes on the families properties until another Frang comes along.

Buy buildings, today's Thai kids don't want to work the farm, the same as the western kids. So, having a lot of empty property is just dirt which does not make money.

[DrDave]

Even wine growing land in California is cheaper.

In California, you never really own the land. You own the right to use the land for specific permitted purposes, as long as you pay rent in the form of property taxes.

The difference being that the "rent" (taxes) you pay in California provides funding for:

- A well-trained police force that actually does their job

- A fire protection force that has proper training and equipment

- An education system that actually educates children

- Construction and maintenance of infrastructure (water, sewers, local roads, etc)

- Transparent local government and enforcement of safety and zoning regulations (want a pig farm next to your new home?)

Thailand, which has no "rent", provides none of the above.

But you (arguably) get those things in California whether you pay taxes on a million acres or you own no land at all.

Everywhere I've lived in the US, all of the things I noted above are funded via county real estate taxes, not income or other taxes. So yes, whether you own one or a million acres, a shack or a mansion, these things are provided to everyone and funded in aggregate. If you don't own any land, you're presumably renting a place to live, and are thus indirectly paying the taxes as the landlord is most likely bundling his tax expense in the rent you pay as the tenant. Everyone* is paying, either directly or indirectly.

(*) Everyone except those living in government provided or subsidized housing.

[liverpool fc]

Wish it was 50000 a rai near sateuk, everywhere here 200000 a rai

[chicowoodduck]

It is expensive because of all the white folks who leave their brains at the airport.....why folks even consider buying anything in Lieland confounds me to no end? :-(

[Inyourendo]

Condos....on sukhumvit, more expensive than Melbourne now.

We have rice land for sale, 5 mil per rai. ....

What the what what? What have you been smoking?

To which subject do you reply.....Condo or lice

[bridge2bridge]

Whatever you pay you DO NOT OWN it anyhow.

[uthaithanirules]

You cannot own land in Thailand ... So whatever you pay is 100% expensive

Someone wise and wealthy once said ...." If it flies, floats, or plucks ...rent it!"

Sigh, there is always some guy that has to point that out like its some big revelation

Oh no! The thai wife who is raising your kids might take $20,000 of land off you.....compared to the western wife that could do the same for $1 million

So what? Ive told mine its hers, here have a big pickup too if you are going to drive my kids around thailand

House, land, you beaut toyota dual cab 4WD thingy, still only comes to what I'd pay around 2 1/2 years just in mortgage interest for just the house and land in Sydney

Let me say that again, in another way, the house and land cost me at least 1/20th of what it would have cost in Sydney

1/20th!!!

Who cares?! If she owns it

I get back to Sydney, see all these guys, pretty much every cent is going to go to the mortgage for 30 years, I'm like whaaaaat?

Maybe the problem is that we are not as rich as you.

Comparing some place upcountry to Sydney is not apples-to-apples. Compare it to central Bangkok and you'll see the same price difference.

Compare it to a plot in Northern Australia and that's more like it.

Apologies if I came off sounding hoity toity in that first one, didnt mean it that way.

Just have saved a bucket load doing it this way.

They are only just over 200 kms away from bangkok

To compare apples to apples, 200kms from Sydney would be somewhere like Bathurst. Think id be hard pressed to get same size house and land for the equivalent of 4 million baht there compared to 700,000 for what the wifes house ended up costing, then theres all the nanny state building cost and restrictions, stamp duty, council rates, yada yada.

So still 4,5 times for the same thing, same distance from a city back in Aus

Some guys are just telling their worst horror stories here anyway, 6 million baht for a shoebox in bangkok is not average

[mikiea]

Even wine growing land in California is cheaper.

In California, you never really own the land. You own the right to use the land for specific permitted purposes, as long as you pay rent in the form of property taxes.

If you disagree, try to put up an unapproved building, or quit paying your "rent". Or if they want to build a highway across your land. You'll soon see who really owns "your" land. (Strangely, not only do you pay rent on the land, your rent goes up after you spend your money to add structures and improve the land- effectively paying rent on stuff you already bought and paid for)

Not to say that it's a bad system, because it forces real estate decisions based on the highest and best use of the land as a precious and finite quasi-public resource, and not as a commodity to be held idle ad-infinitum, which seems to happen here.

I'd be curious to see how the prices would change if the owners were paying a point or two in taxes every year just to hold on to their idle land. I suspect some would be more motivated to sell.

ehhh....you no not of what you speak ....tax's are part of ownership , otherwise the whole western world would resemble huaikwhan . get a grip . English teacher are we ?

[bermondburi]

In buriram province its 200000a rai Thais won't sell for less near a road and you can triple

That price

Depends where, I know some places there where it's 20-40k. I'm not saying where though as we're looking to buy......

[impulse]

"You do not really own the land in California."

Then buy it in Washington state. No property taxes there.

Never lived there, but it seems to have a higher property tax rate than California.

https://c342180.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/property_taxes_destination.pdf

Linked from: http://www.retirementliving.com/taxes-by-state

But getting back on topic, If someone sitting on idle land were to get hit with 1-2-3% tax each year (Highest listed USA rate- but I paid significantly more in Texas), I suspect they'd be less likely to hold onto the idle family land for decades.

[Dumbastheycome]

Many factors have been pushing up land prices. The nominal inflationary factor is a small part.A greater part is the sudden debt level of family members who do not inhabit the family land except to pay brief visits home bearing gifts purchased on available credit in unaffordable vehicles previously purchased on credit using the family chanote as security. When faced with calls for overdue payment and the sum total is added up plus a percentage to tempt the aging parents into believing such a sum will provide for them forever more that total is now typical of the asking.

sadly the percentage for the parents is the first to go in reductions of the asking.

Many parents would aquiesce to selling in order to save face of family .

Never doubt that if there is any hint of a farang involved in the buying the price naturally is increased in the initial asking.

And if there is no chanote issued then unless the buyer and seller are very near family then it would be best passed by.

Another factor that has been negatively been made apparent is the impact of corporate accumulation. The negative has been the illegitimate aquisitions. But at the same time legitimate aquisitions have assisted the rise in average value. In East Thailand vast areas of land are now owned or leased long term by corporate business.

Not available to me now but I do recall seeing about 2 years ago that the average land value in Thailand had reached 150,000 per rai.

Obviously locality would make that average only a reference.

Many years before I did hear comments about farang distorting the price of land by being willing to pay too much. Maybe at that time it may have had some legitimacy but ten years on I think that would be a minor factor.

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

Leased land can still be obtained. Legitimately if done properly. And that has the advantage of that land for the term of the lease as if your own.

30 years on , if the way the world is going lets you actually last that long, ...............................

[blackcab]

Many factors have been pushing up land prices. The nominal inflationary factor is a small part.A greater part is the sudden debt level of family members who do not inhabit the family land except to pay brief visits home bearing gifts purchased on available credit in unaffordable vehicles previously purchased on credit using the family chanote as security. When faced with calls for overdue payment and the sum total is added up plus a percentage to tempt the aging parents into believing such a sum will provide for them forever more that total is now typical of the asking.

sadly the percentage for the parents is the first to go in reductions of the asking.

Many parents would aquiesce to selling in order to save face of family .

Never doubt that if there is any hint of a farang involved in the buying the price naturally is increased in the initial asking.

And if there is no chanote issued then unless the buyer and seller are very near family then it would be best passed by.

Another factor that has been negatively been made apparent is the impact of corporate accumulation. The negative has been the illegitimate aquisitions. But at the same time legitimate aquisitions have assisted the rise in average value. In East Thailand vast areas of land are now owned or leased long term by corporate business.

Not available to me now but I do recall seeing about 2 years ago that the average land value in Thailand had reached 150,000 per rai.

Obviously locality would make that average only a reference.

Many years before I did hear comments about farang distorting the price of land by being willing to pay too much. Maybe at that time it may have had some legitimacy but ten years on I think that would be a minor factor.

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

Leased land can still be obtained. Legitimately if done properly. And that has the advantage of that land for the term of the lease as if your own.

30 years on , if the way the world is going lets you actually last that long, ...............................

Makro has a good deal on usb keyboards at the minute. Buy a few because your space bar is going to wear out soon. Edited April 8, 2016 by blackcab

[Gary A]

My wife apparently loves farm land. She also loved her gold. Over the ten years we have been married, she accumulated quite a bit of gold. She recently had a chance to buy 8 rai of farm land. I refused to front the money so she sold her gold to buy the property. I warned her about a land bubble but since she has no intention to sell any of her land, she doesn't care or worry about that. She looks at her land as her future after I am dead and gone. Over the years she has accumulated over 60 rai. I can tell you for a fact that farming that land would take maybe 20 or more years to pay for it. After I am dead and gone she will at least have an income that will allow her to live fairly well.

Added - I should mention that my wife would never consider buying land that doesn't have a chanote.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Gary A

[trogers]

Condos....on sukhumvit, more expensive than Melbourne now.

We have rice land for sale, 5 mil per rai. ....

What the what what? What have you been smoking?

Actually you are the one that needs to lay off the pipe. Literally 3 days ago I went to see Lumpini 24 (on suk24) and the developer wanted 6.1 million for 29 sqm.

Now I don't know about Melbourne, but in Toronto prime area I can get larger studio in luxury building for less money with the added benefit of knowing it will never turn to a ghetto.

Question is not what the developer wants, but whether he can sell it at that price to others, even if you are feeling disgusted.

But why would you want a property in Soi 24? Why not Soi 50?

[Skeptic7]

EVERYTHING is expensive and highly overpriced in Thailand nowadays...

[trogers]

EVERYTHING is expensive and highly overpriced in Thailand nowadays...

Adam Smith taught us about Supply and Demand, and an equilibrium price. Should everything be overpriced, we should be seeing an exodus and when demands fall, so should prices.

But, we don't seem to see an exodus, rather, we see a changing of guard, meaning, buyers from different countries are taking over from buyers of old...

[BritManToo]

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

You're wrong,

Western countries are suffering population reductions, as is Thailand.

[trogers]

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

You're wrong,

Western countries are suffering population reductions, as is Thailand.

We have to use a micro view regarding land, especially in a capital city. Desirable land in a city is a reducing commodity, even though a country's population is on the reduction.

Take Japan as an example. Suburban houses see price stagnation or falls, but prime areas of major cities still enjoy price increases.

[Gary A]

A couple of years ago my wife bought 16 rai. Unfortunately the official small government road stopped just short of that land. (a few meters) The people that were farming the land didn't want o lose it so they told my wife that she could not cross their land to get to hers. It got kind of ugly. It so happened that that the people farming the land did not own it. My wife looked up the owner and ended up buying the other 16 rai that was directly beside the 16 rai that she had already bought. Now the fun part. She told the people who gave her a hard time that they could now get off HER land. She paid 100,000 baht per rai for that land.

About 8 years ago, I found a piece of land that the view and the area around it was simply stunning. It was near a waterfall and the price was right. My wife went and had a look at it. She talked to the lady who supposedly owned it. My wife looked at me and was ready to leave. I had no idea what was going on. On the way home my wife told me that the land belonged to the government and that it would always be government land regardless of who said they owned it. There is a lot of land that people have farmed for a couple of generations but didn't legally own. Near that piece of land was a plot that came to a head when the government decided to build a ranger station there. The old guy who claimed ownership eventually claimed squatters rights. The government finally gave him 10,000 baht and took the land. There are a lot of gray areas and the land that the government gave to some people cannot be sold and can only be passed down to immediate family. To avoid problems, don't buy cheap land that does NOT have a chanote. Two of my friends, one Thai and the other a farang in that same area, have built houses on land with no chanote. They have no idea if whether it will ever be a problem or not. I'd think that it is not worth taking a chance.

[BritManToo]

There are a lot of gray areas and the land that the government gave to some people cannot be sold and can only be passed down to immediate family. To avoid problems, don't buy cheap land that does NOT have a chanote. Two of my friends, one Thai and the other a farang in that same area, have built houses on land with no chanote. They have no idea if whether it will ever be a problem or not. I'd think that it is not worth taking a chance.

These people often have daughters, buy, impregnate, and your children can own the land as direct descendants.

A novel idea, I agree, but totally doable.

[chrisandsu]

"You do not really own the land in California."

Then buy it in Washington state. No property taxes there.

Funny that , I live in Washington state and pay the some of the highest property tax on the country ! I think you meant state income tax ?

[Dumbastheycome]

Many factors have been pushing up land prices. The nominal inflationary factor is a small part.A greater part is the sudden debt level of family members who do not inhabit the family land except to pay brief visits home bearing gifts purchased on available credit in unaffordable vehicles previously purchased on credit using the family chanote as security. When faced with calls for overdue payment and the sum total is added up plus a percentage to tempt the aging parents into believing such a sum will provide for them forever more that total is now typical of the asking.

sadly the percentage for the parents is the first to go in reductions of the asking.

Many parents would aquiesce to selling in order to save face of family .

Never doubt that if there is any hint of a farang involved in the buying the price naturally is increased in the initial asking.

And if there is no chanote issued then unless the buyer and seller are very near family then it would be best passed by.

Another factor that has been negatively been made apparent is the impact of corporate accumulation. The negative has been the illegitimate aquisitions. But at the same time legitimate aquisitions have assisted the rise in average value. In East Thailand vast areas of land are now owned or leased long term by corporate business.

Not available to me now but I do recall seeing about 2 years ago that the average land value in Thailand had reached 150,000 per rai.

Obviously locality would make that average only a reference.

Many years before I did hear comments about farang distorting the price of land by being willing to pay too much. Maybe at that time it may have had some legitimacy but ten years on I think that would be a minor factor.

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

Leased land can still be obtained. Legitimately if done properly. And that has the advantage of that land for the term of the lease as if your own.

30 years on , if the way the world is going lets you actually last that long, ...............................

Makro has a good deal on usb keyboards at the minute. Buy a few because your space bar is going to wear out soon.

Hmmmmm. I could perhaps avoid using it at all. But as a two finger typist I am cursed with that habit. Is theremoreyoucansayaboutit?