Hi,

I would like to fly and stay in Thailand for some time. I would like to know for how long I can stay on my Israeli passport.

METV Visa will not work for me at the moment. My plan is:

• receive 30 days at the airport.
• Extend by 30 days at immigration. I know you can extend by 30 days for some passports, can you for an Israeli passport?
• Go to Laos to make new visa, extend in immigration. This should give a total of 3 months
• exit and enter to nearest border, and extend in immigration again. How long will this give?

I read that they are more strict today with immigration policy, and that some might not be allowed into Thailand if they overstay, and I would like to know more about this.

Thanks in advance for your help.

1. Yes you can extend by 30 days with an Israeli passport.
2. If you exit/re-enter at a land border you will get 15 days on entry that can be extended by 30 days at immigration.

p.s. If you travel to Thailand without a visa the airline may not let you board unless you have an onward ticket dated within 30 days of arrival. If required a flight to anywhere will usually be accepted.

Edited April 7, 201610 yr by elviajero

Overstaying info: http://overstay.immigration.go.th/advice.html

There have been literally dozens of recent threads on overstays recently, and it makes no sense to initiate another. If you have recently cleared a long overstay and are entering visa exempt, an interrogation at the airport is not unlikely. Otherwise, you have no need to be much concerned unless you overstay now.

Thanks everyone! Now I understand things much better.

I am working on a new project online, and I would like to stay as a tourist/visitor for about 1 year. I can’t say for sure how long. In general Do you recommend me to make tourist visa, simply get visa exempt and extend, or combine both (As I mentioned I have an Israeli passport)?

Thanks everyone! Now I understand things much better.

I am working on a new project online, and I would like to stay as a tourist/visitor for about 1 year. I can’t say for sure how long. In general Do you recommend me to make tourist visa, simply get visa exempt and extend, or combine both (As I mentioned I have an Israeli passport)?

You can obtain tourist visas/visa exempt entries whilst Embassies/Consulates/immigration are willing to issue them.

I hope you realise that working is illegal unless you have the correct visa and a work permit.

Edited April 7, 201610 yr by johnatong

I'm working on an online project that for the first few months will not have income.

I'm working on an online project that for the first few months will not have income.

Any work undertaken in Thailand requires an appropriate visa and work permit -----------paid or unpaid.

I'm working on an online project that for the first few months will not have income.

Any work undertaken in Thailand requires an appropriate visa and work permit -----------paid or unpaid.

Grey area and, even if true, the OP has nothing to worry about. The labor department is not going to raid his room to check whether he is writing a program or posting on Thaivisa. If digital nomads working online are not strictly legal, they are clearly tolerated.

I'm working on an online project that for the first few months will not have income.

Any work undertaken in Thailand requires an appropriate visa and work permit -----------paid or unpaid.

Grey area and, even if true, the OP has nothing to worry about. The labor department is not going to raid his room to check whether he is writing a program or posting on Thaivisa. If digital nomads working online are not strictly legal, they are clearly tolerated.

I much prefer to deal in fact rather than so called "grey areas"

If you can point to a relevant section of the immigration act which permits anyone to work without a visa/work permit I will be pleased to read and learn.

Any work undertaken in Thailand requires an appropriate visa and work permit -----------paid or unpaid.

Grey area and, even if true, the OP has nothing to worry about. The labor department is not going to raid his room to check whether he is writing a program or posting on Thaivisa. If digital nomads working online are not strictly legal, they are clearly tolerated.

I much prefer to deal in fact rather than so called "grey areas"

If you can point to a relevant section of the immigration act which permits anyone to work without a visa/work permit I will be pleased to read and learn.

I think it is clear that the Alien Working Act of 2008 did not consider digital nomads. It neither indicates they are allowed to reside in Thailand or should be refused entry. Some statements by senior immigration officials (admittedly lacking legal force) suggest working online, without a Thai employer or Thai customers should not be interpreted as working in Thailand within the meaning of the act.

Unfortunately, the English translation of the Alien Working Act is terrible. However, I think the intent of the act can be dimly perceived. It is summarized in Section 7:

Section 7.

The work that may be engaged by alien as well as working area and period shall be prescribed by the Ministerial Regulation. In the issuance of such Ministerial Regulation, regard shall be had to national security, occupation opportunity of Thais and demand for alien labour as necessary for the development of the country. The matters to be prescribed may be different between general alien and the aliens under section 13 and section 15.

The provisions of paragraph one shall not apply to the working of aliens under section 12.

I doubt you will agree with me, but I think it clear the intent of the Act is to protect national security and the interests of Thai workers and companies. I do not believe digital nomads in any way impinge on these.

I expect a future revision of the Act will clarify the difference between working in Thailand, and working outside Thailand while physically present in the country. For the moment, it is an area unconsidered at the time the legislation was formulated. I do not think Thailand sees it as in its interest to arrest and deport people who contribute somewhat to the economy without any of the negative consequences envisaged by those framing legislation restrictions on foreigners competing with Thais.

BritTim

Until such time as your dreams are realised DN's are and will remain illegal under the terms of the current Act.

The fact that they are currently tolerated is irrelevant and remaining in the country on any form of visa will become increasingly difficult.

BritTim

Until such time as your dreams are realised DN's are and will remain illegal under the terms of the current Act.

The fact that they are currently tolerated is irrelevant and remaining in the country on any form of visa will become increasingly difficult.

You believe Thai legislation debars digital nomads from entering the country (if not, tell me how, under your interpretation of the law, they can).

I believe the intent of the Act was to control foreigners' rights to take up employment in Thailand. I still do not think it clear that it criminalizes having a foreign employer and happening to be physically in Thailand.

Let's agree to disagree.

Thanks for your information. I think this debate is quite natural because the regulations are changing now.

Anyway, I would like to go back to my question.

I am working on a new project online, and I would like to stay as a tourist/visitor for about 1 year (I can’t say for sure for how long, 1 year is a reasonable period to plan for). I have an Israeli passport (empty) and I'm now in Israel. In general Do you recommend me to make tourist visa, simply enter (flight or border) get visa exempt and extend, or combine both?

Thanks for your information. I think this debate is quite natural because the regulations are changing now.

Anyway, I would like to go back to my question.

I am working on a new project online, and I would like to stay as a tourist/visitor for about 1 year (I can’t say for sure for how long, 1 year is a reasonable period to plan for). I have an Israeli passport (empty) and I'm now in Israel. In general Do you recommend me to make tourist visa, simply enter (flight or border) get visa exempt and extend, or combine both?

You should obtain a visa before leaving home. Without one the airline may refuse you boarding unless you have a booked flight out of Thailand within 30 days of arriving.

Thanks for your information. I think this debate is quite natural because the regulations are changing now.

Anyway, I would like to go back to my question.

I am working on a new project online, and I would like to stay as a tourist/visitor for about 1 year (I can’t say for sure for how long, 1 year is a reasonable period to plan for). I have an Israeli passport (empty) and I'm now in Israel. In general Do you recommend me to make tourist visa, simply enter (flight or border) get visa exempt and extend, or combine both?

You should certainly apply for at least a single entry tourist visa. If you could get a multiple entry tourist visa (METV) it would be even better since it would allow unlimited 60 day entries for 6 months and by doing an entry just before it expires you could get almost 9 months of total stay from it. See this info on the Tel Aviv embassy website. http://www.thaiembassy.org/telaviv/en/services/5737

Thanks for your information. I think this debate is quite natural because the regulations are changing now.

Anyway, I would like to go back to my question.

I am working on a new project online, and I would like to stay as a tourist/visitor for about 1 year (I can’t say for sure for how long, 1 year is a reasonable period to plan for). I have an Israeli passport (empty) and I'm now in Israel. In general Do you recommend me to make tourist visa, simply enter (flight or border) get visa exempt and extend, or combine both?

It's definitely better to get a SETV/METV before coming. You should have no problem getting more SETV's from Thai Embassies/Consulates local to Thailand to cover your 1 year stay. There is no overall limit to back to back visas but Embassies/Consulates have their own limits and it's unlikely they will issue more than 2/3 SETV's back to back.

The debate concerning the legality of online work is ongoing. IMO the law clearly prohibits any work and it's better to assume the worst case than rely on a "grey area" that could only be proven in court. As it stands the authorities tolerate your kind of work but their enforcement policy could change at anytime. So as you are being given permission to stay for tourism the best advice is to keep your work private.

I think it is clear that the Alien Working Act of 2008 did not consider digital nomads. It neither indicates they are allowed to reside in Thailand or should be refused entry. Some statements by senior immigration officials (admittedly lacking legal force) suggest working online, without a Thai employer or Thai customers should not be interpreted as working in Thailand within the meaning of the act.

Unfortunately, the English translation of the Alien Working Act is terrible. However, I think the intent of the act can be dimly perceived. It is summarized in Section 7:

Section 7.

The work that may be engaged by alien as well as working area and period shall be prescribed by the Ministerial Regulation. In the issuance of such Ministerial Regulation, regard shall be had to national security, occupation opportunity of Thais and demand for alien labour as necessary for the development of the country. The matters to be prescribed may be different between general alien and the aliens under section 13 and section 15.

The provisions of paragraph one shall not apply to the working of aliens under section 12.

I doubt you will agree with me, but I think it clear the intent of the Act is to protect national security and the interests of Thai workers and companies. I do not believe digital nomads in any way impinge on these.

I expect a future revision of the Act will clarify the difference between working in Thailand, and working outside Thailand while physically present in the country. For the moment, it is an area unconsidered at the time the legislation was formulated. I do not think Thailand sees it as in its interest to arrest and deport people who contribute somewhat to the economy without any of the negative consequences envisaged by those framing legislation restrictions on foreigners competing with Thais.

The Alien Working (Employment) Act governs the 'employment' of foreigners working in Thailand and has no relevance to DN's. If the foreigner is not being 'employed' the employment act (Alien Working Act) doesn't apply.

Immigration Act

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

The Alien Working (Employment) Act governs the 'employment' of foreigners working in Thailand and has no relevance to DN's. If the foreigner is not being 'employed' the employment act (Alien Working Act) doesn't apply.

Immigration Act

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

I can well see why you would interpret this as barring digital nomads from entering Thailand (as there is no practical way for them to comply with this law as you believe it is intended to be applied).

My own view is that this part of the Immigration Act is badly worded but, like the Alien Working Act, intended to protect the interests of Thai workers and companies by preventing foreigners from taking up employment without permission. I think the law was crafted without considering digital nomads. The situation needs clarifying. However, when conditions change, old laws often need to be interpreted in terms of their original intent, and not based solely on the narrow wording of specific sections. I doubt the now outdated legislation was intended to exclude a class of visitors that has zero negative impact on the kingdom, and injects cash into the economy.

The Alien Working (Employment) Act governs the 'employment' of foreigners working in Thailand and has no relevance to DN's. If the foreigner is not being 'employed' the employment act (Alien Working Act) doesn't apply.

Immigration Act

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

I can well see why you would interpret this as barring digital nomads from entering Thailand (as there is no practical way for them to comply with this law as you believe it is intended to be applied).

My own view is that this part of the Immigration Act is badly worded but, like the Alien Working Act, intended to protect the interests of Thai workers and companies by preventing foreigners from taking up employment without permission. I think the law was crafted without considering digital nomads. The situation needs clarifying. However, when conditions change, old laws often need to be interpreted in terms of their original intent, and not based solely on the narrow wording of specific sections. I doubt the now outdated legislation was intended to exclude a class of visitors that has zero negative impact on the kingdom, and injects cash into the economy.

Most of the DN's I have encountered are so wealthy that they pour cash into the economy every day at the local street noodle stall !

Why is TV so consumed with activities of DN. To enforce something it needs to have easy detection. Some time ago Australia ATO considered taxing eBay "dn" .

Guess what..its too hard. Too many ways around it and cost out weighs revenue.

Thai can hardly keep up with technology let alone chase dn. Never happen

Why is TV so consumed with activities of DN. To enforce something it needs to have easy detection. Some time ago Australia ATO considered taxing eBay "dn" .

Guess what..its too hard. Too many ways around it and cost out weighs revenue.

Thai can hardly keep up with technology let alone chase dn. Never happen

On this occasion you may be correct, however the DN's will be squeezed out by the increased difficulty in obtaining visas !

The Alien Working (Employment) Act governs the 'employment' of foreigners working in Thailand and has no relevance to DN's. If the foreigner is not being 'employed' the employment act (Alien Working Act) doesn't apply.

Immigration Act

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

I can well see why you would interpret this as barring digital nomads from entering Thailand (as there is no practical way for them to comply with this law as you believe it is intended to be applied).

My own view is that this part of the Immigration Act is badly worded but, like the Alien Working Act, intended to protect the interests of Thai workers and companies by preventing foreigners from taking up employment without permission. I think the law was crafted without considering digital nomads. The situation needs clarifying. However, when conditions change, old laws often need to be interpreted in terms of their original intent, and not based solely on the narrow wording of specific sections. I doubt the now outdated legislation was intended to exclude a class of visitors that has zero negative impact on the kingdom, and injects cash into the economy.

• I dont interpret it as barring DN's from entering Thailand but from working after they've entered.
  • Having received a temporary entry permit Joe Bloggs shall not engage in the occupation of Digital Nomad unless authorised. ​
• The Immigration Act clearly differentiates between 'occupation' OR 'employment' so that foreigners can't do any kind of work.
• The act was written 37 years ago and you consider it badly written, but what if it's intention was to blanket ban all work by foreigners exactly as written. Laws like this are often written in a way to future proof the intention. I believe the intention is crystal clear and in line with the authorities aims to keep expat numbers under control.
• When the Immigration Act is updated I doubt section 37.1 will change. All that needs to change, should they decide to formally grant DN's permission, is the process for granting permission to work. IMO that will never happen.
• It is next to impossible for immigration to practically police DN's that are living and working here. IMO the only way they could ever reduce/control numbers would be to put further restrictions/limits on back to back tourist visas. IMO that will happen.
• The Immigration Act is 100% intended to exclude certain classes of visitor regardless of any positive value. Proven by the strict qualifying criteria in place to keep the numbers of long term visitors in check.

IMO the current tolerance of DN/online work is mistakenly considered by some (mostly self invested DN's) to be due to a "grey area" in the law. A grey area based on the fact that the law doesn't single them out. I don't believe that is the case, but that the lack of enforcement is due to a loophole in the visa system (unlimited TR's) and a small but growing 'problem' that is well down on the to do list.

Edited April 8, 201610 yr by elviajero

The Alien Working (Employment) Act governs the 'employment' of foreigners working in Thailand and has no relevance to DN's. If the foreigner is not being 'employed' the employment act (Alien Working Act) doesn't apply.

Immigration Act

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned.

I can well see why you would interpret this as barring digital nomads from entering Thailand (as there is no practical way for them to comply with this law as you believe it is intended to be applied).

My own view is that this part of the Immigration Act is badly worded but, like the Alien Working Act, intended to protect the interests of Thai workers and companies by preventing foreigners from taking up employment without permission. I think the law was crafted without considering digital nomads. The situation needs clarifying. However, when conditions change, old laws often need to be interpreted in terms of their original intent, and not based solely on the narrow wording of specific sections. I doubt the now outdated legislation was intended to exclude a class of visitors that has zero negative impact on the kingdom, and injects cash into the economy.

• I dont interpret it as barring DN's from entering Thailand but from working after they've entered.
  • Having received a temporary entry permit Joe Bloggs shall not engage in the occupation of Digital Nomad unless authorised. ​
• The Immigration Act clearly differentiates between 'occupation' OR 'employment' so that foreigners can't do any kind of work.
• The act was written 37 years ago and you consider it badly written, but what if it's intention was to blanket ban all work by foreigners exactly as written. Laws like this are often written in a way to future proof the intention. I believe the intention is crystal clear and in line with the authorities aims to keep expat numbers under control.
• When the Immigration Act is updated I doubt section 37.1 will change. All that needs to change, should they decide to formally grant DN's permission, is the process for granting permission to work. IMO that will never happen.
• It is next to impossible for immigration to practically police DN's that are living and working here. IMO the only way they could ever reduce/control numbers would be to put further restrictions/limits on back to back tourist visas. IMO that will happen.
• The Immigration Act is 100% intended to exclude certain classes of visitor regardless of any positive value. Proven by the strict qualifying criteria in place to keep the numbers of long term visitors in check.

IMO the current tolerance of DN/online work is mistakenly considered by some (mostly self invested DN's) to be due to a "grey area" in the law. A grey area based on the fact that the law doesn't single them out. I don't believe that is the case, but that the lack of enforcement is due to a loophole in the visa system (unlimited TR's) and a small but growing 'problem' that is well down on the to do list.

Your arguments are well presented and, as I already stated, your views are understandable. I also think some immigration officials would take the same narrow view you do. I would certainly not advise a digital nomad to state on entry that they will be working for foreign clients while here. That said, here are some counter arguments:

• Digital nomads tend to work on a continuous basis. If really true that attending to their customers' issues while in Thailand is against the immigration laws, then they either need to be scofflaws (a terrible crime according to some members here) or not come.
• Senior executives probably also cannot come. Such people, even when on holiday, need to be free to carry out urgent tasks as issues arise.
• Restricting the stay of a DN here in Thailand to, say, 12 months by restrictions on tourist visas would not stop them from working.
• While there may be an element of keeping foreigner numbers down (basically racism) in the Immigration Act, I think Thailand does see the value of encouraging foreigners to come insofar as they do not have negative effects. One negative effect could be competing against Thai workers for jobs or Thai companies for business. One key paragraph is this:

  Section 12 :

  Aliens which fall into any of the following categories are excluded from entering into the Kingdom :

  ... snip ...

  3. Having entered into the Kingdom to take occupation as a laborer or to take employment by using physical without skills training or to work in violation of the Ministerial Regulations.

  ... snip ...

  I think there is a difference between continuing ones existing occupation while physically present in Thailand, and entering the country planning to get a job. I think the law envisages the latter.

• The Computer Crime Act (drafted by people who probably do understand the concept of working online) does not include a provision for prosecuting people for using computers to circumvent Thailand's laws against people continuing to do their jobs while in the country.