How Much Does A Cop Cost?

[Physherman]

How much do cops earn?

If we were to each contribute 20 baht a day to the police, would this have any effect upon getting them to do their jobs?

I can understand them collecting some beer money by stopping the motorbike riders who aren't wearing helmets. It would certainly cover their evening bar tabs. But then I see these same policemen riding off on their bikes without their helmets! I don't understand. Don't the laws apply to them too?

I see them standing on the side of the road, in the shade of a tree or building, while selors triple park in front of Kad Suen Kaew, Chiang Puak Gate, and Chiang Mai Gate, then do nothing still as these same selors cross three lanes of traffic, come to a complete stop blocking all traffic movement, just on the chance of picking up another fare. Double parking is one thing. Everybody's got to make a living. But isn't triple parking really dangerous as well as against the law? Aren't the police supposed to do something to enforce the law?

Every day I see new fresh paint marks on the streets, showing where the wheels of the latest accident came to rest. Some days I see this in three or four locations. I guess when the police graduate from cop school they are all issued cans of spray paint. Wouldn't it make more sense to prevent these accidents than mark them as trophies? It wouldn't take all that much to cut the accident rate down immensely just by enforcing the traffic rules. Stop cars and trucks from making illegal U-turns. We know where they occur most frequently. Stop the kids from riding 3-4 per bike while chatting on their mobile phones. Stop the selors from bunching up on busy streets. Three cops, one inside Chiang Mai Gate, one in front of Kad Suen Kaew, and on in front of the evening vendors outside Chiang Puak Gate, and the traffic flow would improve by a factor of 10x, with corresponding reduction of accidents.

Let's take up a collection and pay the cops for doing their jobs. I know that's bribery, but bribery seems to be the only compensation they do something for!

The Fly Fisherman

[adjan jb]

This reminds me a story.

A few years ago, I was at Ratchadamnoen police station to help an English friend who had just been robbed at her guest house.

During a break, the officer in charge of the case and I went outside the station for a smoke. We sat down, lighted the fags, watched the passing traffic and started to count the offences (correct English ?). After a few dozens the cop gave up, saying it wasn't funny anymore. "You know, he said, I used to work in BKK. I was a good cop then but since I moved to CM, I am a w#nker. In CM, we are all w#nkers"

[Pantip]

You have to remember that This Is Thailand, wonderful isn't it.

[PeaceBlondie]

I wish the streets were safer for travelling, but if I wanted pedantic, 'anal-retentive' law enforcement, I could go back to Houston, where traffic police enforce all the laws when they want to, and observe none themselves. You can get away with 75 mph in town on the expressway (way too fast, 15 mph over the limit) much of the time, but you might get nailed for 6 mph over the posted limit, in a place where it's perfectly safe to do so.

Okay, while we're complaining - the north, outer stretch of the moat is almost impassable at night as you approach ChangPuak Gate, vendors and stalls in the first lane, tables and motorcycles in the next two lanes - and the narrowest part of the outer road around the moat, at the opposite southern end, has similar problems in the eveniong. But I don't drive the Nissan after dark, so I just ride the bike and snake through with 4 cm on either side.

In my 38,000 km of riding around Thailand, nothing that's mentioned in the opening post caused me to crash. A dog in the road did, though. And those cops aren't going to educate animals to get out of the road.

[sbk]

My understanding is that police salaries are quite low. They are provided with health benefits but are required to buy their own uniforms and guns. I have heard that often the station is so underfunded the police have to buy office supplies with their own money.

So, here's a job that pays poorly and commands little respect. Its no wonder the job only attracts the greedy and the slackers.

[mongoose]

How much do cops earn?

If we were to each contribute 20 baht a day to the police, would this have any effect upon getting them to do their jobs?

I can understand them collecting some beer money by stopping the motorbike riders who aren't wearing helmets. It would certainly cover their evening bar tabs. But then I see these same policemen riding off on their bikes without their helmets! I don't understand. Don't the laws apply to them too?

I see them standing on the side of the road, in the shade of a tree or building, while selors triple park in front of Kad Suen Kaew, Chiang Puak Gate, and Chiang Mai Gate, then do nothing still as these same selors cross three lanes of traffic, come to a complete stop blocking all traffic movement, just on the chance of picking up another fare. Double parking is one thing. Everybody's got to make a living. But isn't triple parking really dangerous as well as against the law? Aren't the police supposed to do something to enforce the law?

Every day I see new fresh paint marks on the streets, showing where the wheels of the latest accident came to rest. Some days I see this in three or four locations. I guess when the police graduate from cop school they are all issued cans of spray paint. Wouldn't it make more sense to prevent these accidents than mark them as trophies? It wouldn't take all that much to cut the accident rate down immensely just by enforcing the traffic rules. Stop cars and trucks from making illegal U-turns. We know where they occur most frequently. Stop the kids from riding 3-4 per bike while chatting on their mobile phones. Stop the selors from bunching up on busy streets. Three cops, one inside Chiang Mai Gate, one in front of Kad Suen Kaew, and on in front of the evening vendors outside Chiang Puak Gate, and the traffic flow would improve by a factor of 10x, with corresponding reduction of accidents.

Let's take up a collection and pay the cops for doing their jobs. I know that's bribery, but bribery seems to be the only compensation they do something for!

The Fly Fisherman

Please do not take offense. The truth is that perhaps you would best go somewhere else if you want to be in a country of laws. Certainly you can find a place with less selective enforcement but not the absence of it. You will drive yourself to dissatisfaction if your expectations are that laws SHOULD (or even could) be obeyed in Thailand. Thailand is mostly a country of relationships, not a country of laws.

[Ajarn]

My understanding is that police salaries are quite low. They are provided with health benefits but are required to buy their own uniforms and guns. I have heard that often the station is so underfunded the police have to buy office supplies with their own money.

So, here's a job that pays poorly and commands little respect. Its no wonder the job only attracts the greedy and the slackers.

Happy to tell you that you are wrong about it only attracting greedy slackers.. I've known a few cops for a long time, and I consider them to be hardworking, and not at all greedy. Maybe they're unusual, but they're real...

[Physherman]

>Please do not take offense.

None taken. )

>The truth is that perhaps you would best go somewhere else if you want to be in a country of laws.

I never believed that leaving solved a problem. It just left it for others to deal with. If I'm going to live here, I'd like to think that I can be part of the solution, if only in a minor way. If I can save one life, it's worth the trouble.

> Certainly you can find a place with less selective enforcement but not the absence of it.

Certainly, but that was not what the post was about.

> You will drive yourself to dissatisfaction if your expectations are that laws SHOULD (or even could) be obeyed in Thailand.

Right... so why even bother to have police or laws here. Is that what you are saying?

Sorry, but I disagree. We have laws. We have police. What is needed is for the police to enforce those laws. In countries where that occurs, there are fewer accidents per population ratio. Thailand's rate is about the highest. No country will be filled with perfect citizens nor perfect police. But it certainly could be a lot better here if the cops did their jobs. I've even heard other police complain about the lack of effective enforcement here, so it's obviously not all police that are slacking off. Just most of them.

> Thailand is mostly a country of relationships, not a country of laws.

I wonder if Thaksin would agree with you? An honest man doesn't need laws. A dishonest man will look for ways to break the laws. An apathetic man will simply shrug and won't give a ######.

The Fly Fisherman

[sbk]

My understanding is that police salaries are quite low. They are provided with health benefits but are required to buy their own uniforms and guns. I have heard that often the station is so underfunded the police have to buy office supplies with their own money.

So, here's a job that pays poorly and commands little respect. Its no wonder the job only attracts the greedy and the slackers.

Happy to tell you that you are wrong about it only attracting greedy slackers.. I've known a few cops for a long time, and I consider them to be hardworking, and not at all greedy. Maybe they're unusual, but they're real...

You are right, I should have phrased that differently. There are some honest cops out there, very hard working and decent. But, they do have a very hard time of it (anyone recall that policeman in Chumpon who was clean but the station was not and he ended up flipping out from all the pressure and harassment and shot his boss?) and are not that many.

So, let me rephrase that to say "Its no wonder the job attracts mainly the greedy and the slackers"

[mongoose]

Thanks for making it all clear for me. When you get your police fund establisted and have successfully collected a significant amount of Baht, please pm me with the details and I will be pleased to make a significant contribution. Good luck.

In the meanwhile, oh Great Spirit

Please grant me the peace to accept the things I can not change (or understand)

The ability and courage to change the things I can

And enough sense to know the difference

[Tony Clifton]

How much do cops earn?

If we were to each contribute 20 baht a day to the police, would this have any effect upon getting them to do their jobs?

I can understand them collecting some beer money by stopping the motorbike riders who aren't wearing helmets. It would certainly cover their evening bar tabs. But then I see these same policemen riding off on their bikes without their helmets! I don't understand. Don't the laws apply to them too?

I see them standing on the side of the road, in the shade of a tree or building, while selors triple park in front of Kad Suen Kaew, Chiang Puak Gate, and Chiang Mai Gate, then do nothing still as these same selors cross three lanes of traffic, come to a complete stop blocking all traffic movement, just on the chance of picking up another fare. Double parking is one thing. Everybody's got to make a living. But isn't triple parking really dangerous as well as against the law? Aren't the police supposed to do something to enforce the law?

Every day I see new fresh paint marks on the streets, showing where the wheels of the latest accident came to rest. Some days I see this in three or four locations. I guess when the police graduate from cop school they are all issued cans of spray paint. Wouldn't it make more sense to prevent these accidents than mark them as trophies? It wouldn't take all that much to cut the accident rate down immensely just by enforcing the traffic rules. Stop cars and trucks from making illegal U-turns. We know where they occur most frequently. Stop the kids from riding 3-4 per bike while chatting on their mobile phones. Stop the selors from bunching up on busy streets. Three cops, one inside Chiang Mai Gate, one in front of Kad Suen Kaew, and on in front of the evening vendors outside Chiang Puak Gate, and the traffic flow would improve by a factor of 10x, with corresponding reduction of accidents.

Let's take up a collection and pay the cops for doing their jobs. I know that's bribery, but bribery seems to be the only compensation they do something for!

The Fly Fisherman

Please do not take offense. The truth is that perhaps you would best go somewhere else if you want to be in a country of laws. Certainly you can find a place with less selective enforcement but not the absence of it. You will drive yourself to dissatisfaction if your expectations are that laws SHOULD (or even could) be obeyed in Thailand. Thailand is mostly a country of relationships, not a country of laws.

The laws are there but not the needed patrol cars or even cops on motorcycles pulling people over when they commit infractions. No one learns. No one cares as they never get caught on the spot.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Tony Clifton

[Ajarn]

How much do cops earn?

If we were to each contribute 20 baht a day to the police, would this have any effect upon getting them to do their jobs?

I can understand them collecting some beer money by stopping the motorbike riders who aren't wearing helmets. It would certainly cover their evening bar tabs. But then I see these same policemen riding off on their bikes without their helmets! I don't understand. Don't the laws apply to them too?

I see them standing on the side of the road, in the shade of a tree or building, while selors triple park in front of Kad Suen Kaew, Chiang Puak Gate, and Chiang Mai Gate, then do nothing still as these same selors cross three lanes of traffic, come to a complete stop blocking all traffic movement, just on the chance of picking up another fare. Double parking is one thing. Everybody's got to make a living. But isn't triple parking really dangerous as well as against the law? Aren't the police supposed to do something to enforce the law?

Every day I see new fresh paint marks on the streets, showing where the wheels of the latest accident came to rest. Some days I see this in three or four locations. I guess when the police graduate from cop school they are all issued cans of spray paint. Wouldn't it make more sense to prevent these accidents than mark them as trophies? It wouldn't take all that much to cut the accident rate down immensely just by enforcing the traffic rules. Stop cars and trucks from making illegal U-turns. We know where they occur most frequently. Stop the kids from riding 3-4 per bike while chatting on their mobile phones. Stop the selors from bunching up on busy streets. Three cops, one inside Chiang Mai Gate, one in front of Kad Suen Kaew, and on in front of the evening vendors outside Chiang Puak Gate, and the traffic flow would improve by a factor of 10x, with corresponding reduction of accidents.

Let's take up a collection and pay the cops for doing their jobs. I know that's bribery, but bribery seems to be the only compensation they do something for!

The Fly Fisherman

Please do not take offense. The truth is that perhaps you would best go somewhere else if you want to be in a country of laws. Certainly you can find a place with less selective enforcement but not the absence of it. You will drive yourself to dissatisfaction if your expectations are that laws SHOULD (or even could) be obeyed in Thailand. Thailand is mostly a country of relationships, not a country of laws.

The laws are there but not the needed patrol cars or even cops on motorcycles pulling people over when they commit infractions. No one learns. No one cares as they never get caught on the spot.

Something that I enjoy a lot here, being able to drive around and never worry about the cops pulling me over and hassling me. I drive the way I want to...

Fact is, this country does not rely on laws, but relationships.

[jackr]

The truth is that perhaps you would best go somewhere else if you want to be in a country of laws.

Edited November 2, 2006 by jackr

[likite]

Well last night at around 9.30pm a Thai guy on a motorbike had a relationship with a songtaew. He was laid out on the road, about 50 metres from Chuang Puak Gate, whether he was dead or not I don't know, but more paint will be sprayed on the road for sure.

Hope He's OK.

[altman]

>Please do not take offense.

None taken. )

>The truth is that perhaps you would best go somewhere else if you want to be in a country of laws.

I never believed that leaving solved a problem. It just left it for others to deal with. If I'm going to live here, I'd like to think that I can be part of the solution, if only in a minor way. If I can save one life, it's worth the trouble.

The Fly Fisherman

i have heard that there is a volunteer organization of ex-pats who assist the police. perhaps you should join and start making a difference. or, if that organization no longer exists due to lack of interest, perhaps you should start it up again.

[manjara]

....

The laws are there but not the needed patrol cars or even cops on motorcycles pulling people over when they commit infractions. No one learns. No one cares as they never get caught on the spot.

Something that I enjoy a lot here, being able to drive around and never worry about the cops pulling me over and hassling me. I drive the way I want to...

Fact is, this country does not rely on laws, but relationships.

Me too, although not that long ago I was pulled over while on my way up North, because my number plate was partially obscured (apparently it was the end of the month).

I didn't have anything smaller than 500 baht, so I duly asked the policeman if he would kindly pay the fine for me (that's code for 'let's forget about this', btw) so I didn't have to go back in to BKK.

He was very reluctant to take the note, saying it was too much. In the end he was thanking me profusely!

Always have a few hundreds in your wallet; far more useful than a Thai drivers license, or driving according to the rules. Be respectful, calm and discreet and you won't have many problems (for minor or made-up offences)

[Physherman]

[

Something that I enjoy a lot here, being able to drive around and never worry about the cops pulling me over and hassling me. I drive the way I want to...

I understand.

You prefer to make up your own laws as you see fit, rather than conforming to the local laws. Why have laws anyway, right? They only get in your way if you're in a hurry.

Sometimes, while this may work well for you, it interferes with the safety of the entire rest of the driving community, which is why the laws were made in the first place. Isn't the safety of others a concern for you?

Do you really feel that it's OK to break the laws just because there are no police around to stop you? Or is it that you don't care about the safety of others when you are driving? Would you clear up this confusion.

The Fly Fisherman

[jdinasia]

egads ..... save me from the overly lawbound systems in the "West"

Part of the joy of living here IS the fact that Thailand is not a nanny-state that watches what everyone does all the time!

life is nice here!

[Rinrada]

How Much Does A Cop Cost?

Few years ago the going rate to hire one down in P.P.was approx $50 a month to guard a bar.

We used to employ 2 plus a contribution to the local area

"head sherriffs/Marshals"christmas ball but it was worth it in case of any crazy khmers/beggers/attempted robbers who turned a bit loopy.

Although we used to keep a wee AK just behind the bar (everyone did)

our polis could usually deal with any small confrontation and indeed we had ... very few...

On one occasion a drunken foreigner started waving his Hand G about but a few quiet words from "tit lads" made him see sense.

Khmer New year was always good fun with a big "bang- bang"disply when they and we all had a go at shooting the new moon.....until they wanted us to pay for the rounds......gotta hava larff...

No doubt now they have all got pension plans so would imagine the monthly rates have gone up.....

[Physherman]

> egads ..... save me from the overly lawbound systems in the "West"

> Part of the joy of living here IS the fact that Thailand is not a nanny-state that watches what everyone does all the time!

I agree completely.

There is much too much 'parenting' done in the west. It IS nice not to have to deal with that.

But on the other hand, it requires that we ourselves follow certain guidelines to insure the safety of others, and act in an adult manner rather than like teenagers whose parents have gone away for the weekend.

Freedom doesn't mean we have the right to do anything we want. It means we have to take responsiblity and act reasonably.

> life is nice here!

Yes, that's why we live here. But perhaps we can make it even nicer to live here. For all of us.

Possible? I think so. (The vehicular death rates are MUCH lower in the west. I wonder if there is a correlation?)

The Fly Fisherman

Edited November 3, 2006 by Physherman

[jdinasia]

Naaaaa If you don't wear your seatbelt ... or don't wear a helmet then that is your decision!

as far as being the guy that thinks that I should solve the problems with the police ... I think I'll leave that for the Thai folks. They don't work their issues out the same way I would and even less so the way it would happen in the West. Another reason I like it here

[London Crocodile]

I rest my case.

[Thaddeus]

I rest my case.

What case?

[Tywais]

You prefer to make up your own laws as you see fit, rather than conforming to the local laws.

Unfortunately in Thailand conforming to the local laws rather then to the local driving standards make you an accident waiting to happen.

[lannarebirth]

egads ..... save me from the overly lawbound systems in the "West"

Part of the joy of living here IS the fact that Thailand is not a nanny-state that watches what everyone does all the time!

life is nice here!

I met a farang here in Chiag Mai that said he fekt comforted by the fact it only costs about B 40,000 if he should accidently (or not accidentally for that matter) hit and kill a motorcyclist.

I agree about the nanny state comment, but a middle way might be something worth aimming for.

Edited November 3, 2006 by lannarebirth

[Blinky Bill]

I met a farang here in Chiag Mai that said he fekt comforted by the fact it only costs about B 40,000 if he should accidently (or not accidentally for that matter) hit and kill a motorcyclist.

I agree about the nanny state comment, but a middle way might be something worth aimming for.

That's only if he doesn't successfully flee the scene. The price was (since back in the 80's) Thb50,000. Has the price come down? It was always cheaper if the victim was dead rather than injured.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Blinky Bill

[Ajarn]

I met a farang here in Chiag Mai that said he fekt comforted by the fact it only costs about B 40,000 if he should accidently (or not accidentally for that matter) hit and kill a motorcyclist.

I agree about the nanny state comment, but a middle way might be something worth aimming for.

That's only if he doesn't successfully flee the scene. The price was (since back in the 80's) Thb50,000. Has the price come down? It was always cheaper if the victim was dead rather than injured.

I don't believe that there is a 'price' for killing someone, for over the years, I have heard a number of stories of people paying considerably more or less than 50,000...

[London Crocodile]

I rest my case.

What case?

I stated that Thailand was infact a 'Nanny-state' and my post was deleted. Hence, I rest my case.

[Ajarn]

I rest my case.

What case?

I stated that Thailand was infact a 'Nanny-state' and my post was deleted. Hence, I rest my case.

Then, to me, it sounds more like TV is a 'Nanny State'. Afterall, what does the Kingdom of Thailand have to do with this place, or your message being deleted?

[Ajarn]

[

Something that I enjoy a lot here, being able to drive around and never worry about the cops pulling me over and hassling me. I drive the way I want to...

I understand.

You prefer to make up your own laws as you see fit, rather than conforming to the local laws. Why have laws anyway, right? They only get in your way if you're in a hurry.

Sometimes, while this may work well for you, it interferes with the safety of the entire rest of the driving community, which is why the laws were made in the first place. Isn't the safety of others a concern for you?

Do you really feel that it's OK to break the laws just because there are no police around to stop you? Or is it that you don't care about the safety of others when you are driving? Would you clear up this confusion.

The Fly Fisherman

Simply, I am saying that I like the style of enforcement here overall, and especially that I never worry about being hassled ...I don't know how I drive, but in 21 years, and nearly a million Km's of driving experience here, I've never had an accident- wouldn't you likely want everyone to drive like me??

Edited November 4, 2006 by Ajarn