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Why it's not easy being a Thai police officer


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Posted

Whoever wrote that crap should be ashamed to call themselves a journalist.

Maximilian Wechsler, a German name, looks like his Visa is up for renewal, a little stroking cant hurt.

Yes, this must be one of the three positive articles about Thailand that "foreign journalists" must write to secure a media visa (non B-M) extension.

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Posted

While your average Officer Somchai may be a decent, hardworking person, there is little doubt that, alongside the RTA, the RTP is one of the largest criminal organisations in the nation. One only need to look at the vast levels of unusual wealth in the upper ranks (a snippet of this can be seen in the declared assets of the 11 RTP officers handpicked to form the NLA), and the the conspicuous purchase of positions within the agency, with the asking price for each position being revealed openly.

Thailand will never be a safe country, it will never reduce the horrific road toll, nor ever attain status of developed nation unless a complete top-to-bottom restructure of the RTP is undertaken, decentralising its command structure, and transferring its reporting to the Ministry of Justice, recruiting overseas advisors/trainers, imposing strict ethical guidelines, sacking every single one of the tens of thousands (140,000?) of criminals currently sitting in inactive posts, and providing a living wage to officers.

Don't disagree but would add that the whole justice system needs restructuring and reforming. Laws need to be clear not deliberately vague so individuals can interpret them however they want. The law needs to be enforced and transgressors treated impartially and equally. This requires police, lawyers, prosecutors and judges to all act without favor and apply the law evenly to all.

The rich have enjoyed the ability to manipulate the law how they want for a long long time. That breeds and feeds corruption. Only when that stops can things move forward.

Look at the cases kicking around at the moment that have simply stalled - the killer underage driver not bothering to do her community service in compliance with probation office rules; the ex MP / Copper whose passenger allegedly died in a minor traffic accident just after fraudulent share transfers were made. Despite all the hype that experts were being consulted, and the share documents seemed forged, and the guys wife died in similar circumstances and pressure applied by the victims rich family the case has disappeared; the speeding Merc driver who killed two after crashing through a toll barrier and then refused blood tests; the infamous Red Bull cop killer case; the American-Chinese thugs who viciously assaulted and deformed a young Aussie (the PM even promised justice here) etc etc etc etc.

Cases involving the rich a simply seen as gravy trains for those involved in the legal process - regardless of the crime.

Until that changes, and the mentality that "it can't be changed" changes, forget police reforms. Simply won't happen.

Yes, yes, I agree completely. A properly functioning police force will achieve nothing without fair and impartial Judiciary.

Thailand's problems are many, the solutions —restoring democracy, making the military accountable to the democratically elected government, removing military personnel from all government positions and board/management positions in all state enterprises, reforming both the military the RTP making their appointments based on merit, creating a fair and impartial judiciary, establishing government-appointed independent anti-corruption watchdog and oversight bodies for both the military and RTP, and make their budgets transparent—are rational, logical, far from impossible, and exceedingly unlikely to ever happen.

Indeed, I fear it could go the other way at any time. A storm is coming. Everyone knows this, even if people are unable to discuss it. The only question is how much time is left before it hits. What happens then will fundamentally define what kind of country Thailand becomes in the 21st century, and Prayuth's manoeuvring recently is fairly ominous.

Posted

I just wish I could see a higher police profile like catching rice rocket runners on Huay Kaew road after dark. Yeah I know its time to go home. Also if they took some of those lower level cops that spend most of their time personally grooming the "generals" and put them on the street crime would be cut in half. Let the generals look after their own person.

Posted

Yep! it must be a real chore,getting money from motorists that haven't even done anything wrong.Squeezing 1000's of baht from the drivers over the top.Threatening people with a night in the monkey house unless they fork up.Getting a monthly pay off form the bar owners that you say you will look after and never turn up.Getting the weekly free bang from a bar girl that has caught your attention after promising not to arrest her for prostitution.Never having to go to work after 6 pm at night.Being able to afford a mia noi (i wish i could) showing off to the nieghbours every Sunday when washing the new BMW 7 series.Frightening the life out of new, unaware tourists by carrying a gun.Knowing that the very sight of you in that brown uniform unnerves the general public.And being general Aholes where the ferang community is concerned.

And our leader posts a comment saying that when the public say bad things about the police....it makes them sadcheesy.gif

Well, the army has now got all your powers,watcha gonna do?

Posted

Just like all asia if you pay for your job or position you have to recover your money investment back out of the job

Government positions are the ssame.

Until things change Pay Peanuts Get Monkeys.

Give them perks and assistance housing schooling medical care low finance deals

Then remove the perks if they get any involvement in bribery or corruption

As it stands they have nothing to loose being corrupt..

Sorry mate but the BIB already get free accommodation if they choose ro take it, they also get healthcare for them selves and their family and a pension at retirement.

Posted

While your average Officer Somchai may be a decent, hardworking person, there is little doubt that, alongside the RTA, the RTP is one of the largest criminal organisations in the nation. One only need to look at the vast levels of unusual wealth in the upper ranks (a snippet of this can be seen in the declared assets of the 11 RTP officers handpicked to form the NLA), and the the conspicuous purchase of positions within the agency, with the asking price for each position being revealed openly.

Thailand will never be a safe country, it will never reduce the horrific road toll, nor ever attain status of developed nation unless a complete top-to-bottom restructure of the RTP is undertaken, decentralising its command structure, and transferring its reporting to the Ministry of Justice, recruiting overseas advisors/trainers, imposing strict ethical guidelines, sacking every single one of the tens of thousands (140,000?) of criminals currently sitting in inactive posts, and providing a living wage to officers.

It's relatively simple.

In order for a countries people to avoid being tainted on a daily basis one has to install pure thoughts, discipline, honesty, kindness blessed with good morals into its children at home and schools. This carries on into life through time being the fibre needed to take a nation forward,

Not getting all philosophical although hope you get my drift.

So by taking all that into consideration - Thailand is flogging a dead horse trying to explain any virtues by its Police force until it has its own house in order.

Just saying .......,

Posted

Its not easy being a cop in a feudal system. Wait what?

The easiest jobs by far. You know how many people you can write a driving citation for on a daily basis in as little as a hour for?

I guess when most have multiple wifes it can be hard to be a cop in Thailand.

Golden rule: Where is the nearest Furong who needs my help sorting out why he just stop to help a accident victim, but is being accused of causing said accident at....?

Posted

While your average Officer Somchai may be a decent, hardworking person, there is little doubt that, alongside the RTA, the RTP is one of the largest criminal organisations in the nation. One only need to look at the vast levels of unusual wealth in the upper ranks (a snippet of this can be seen in the declared assets of the 11 RTP officers handpicked to form the NLA), and the the conspicuous purchase of positions within the agency, with the asking price for each position being revealed openly.

Thailand will never be a safe country, it will never reduce the horrific road toll, nor ever attain status of developed nation unless a complete top-to-bottom restructure of the RTP is undertaken, decentralising its command structure, and transferring its reporting to the Ministry of Justice, recruiting overseas advisors/trainers, imposing strict ethical guidelines, sacking every single one of the tens of thousands (140,000?) of criminals currently sitting in inactive posts, and providing a living wage to officers.

It's relatively simple.

In order for a countries people to avoid being tainted on a daily basis one has to install pure thoughts, discipline, honesty, kindness blessed with good morals into its children at home and schools. This carries on into life through time being the fibre needed to take a nation forward,

Not getting all philosophical although hope you get my drift.

So by taking all that into consideration - Thailand is flogging a dead horse trying to explain any virtues by its Police force until it has its own house in order.

Just saying .......,

I get your drift, but the idealised, fictional, narrative of the Thai nation and of what it means to be Thai—a narrative that depicts the country as a uniquely blessed kingdom in which nobody questions the established order—has not been nurtured to protect the people from being tainted. Quite the opposite.

Posted (edited)

I get your drift, but the idealised, fictional, narrative of the Thai nation and of what it means to be Thaia narrative that depicts the country as a uniquely blessed kingdom in which nobody questions the established orderhas not been nurtured to protect the people from being tainted. Quite the opposite.

Deleted my comment about best selling books in Thailand, I believe it was slightly offtopic :)

Edited by lkv
Posted

I am puzzled by the diligent inspections at roadblocks between the hours of 8 am and noon, then a lackadaisical wave through - if an officer is even there - after 12 o'clock. Are the BiB sleeping in the afternoon, eating, or doing paperwork?

The Thai government could possibly improve the police force by firing half of them, doubling the pay of what's left and telling them the working day is 8 hours, not 4. As of now, I'm reminded of Russia - you pretend to pay us, and we'll pretend to work.

Posted

I am puzzled by the diligent inspections at roadblocks between the hours of 8 am and noon, then a lackadaisical wave through - if an officer is even there - after 12 o'clock. Are the BiB sleeping in the afternoon, eating, or doing paperwork?

The Thai government could possibly improve the police force by firing half of them, doubling the pay of what's left and telling them the working day is 8 hours, not 4. As of now, I'm reminded of Russia - you pretend to pay us, and we'll pretend to work.

Firing people does not match the format. 0.7% unemployment rate, lots of people working, low wages, no education.

That's how control has been mantained by the Elites for hundreds of years.

Applies to the Police force too.

Posted

How true, over worked underpaid

aren't we all?

we all would like more,

i give the police credit for the

many drug busts that have been made this year.

when you get undermined from within, it must be a

very dangerous place to speak out of turn,

or push incidents of graft,

follow the line or get pushed / removed from service,

Changing the society attitudes towards police has to start

with joe public,

only way to do that is to lobotomise every one in one day.

Most RTP do a lot in conditions that in a Western country would never be tolerated. On a daily basis can there be no sympathy for the many poor barstards on point duty in the heat,and fumes on the streets of BKK attempting to make commuter transit possible at all in defiance of the selfish incompetant drivers, westerners included? What life expectancy? In my home country the Police no longer givea rats rear end about the victims of petty crime. Ok, make your report..."Have Insurance don't you?" But in Thailand if from the very many transgressions they extract a small compensation which in many cases is a fraction of what would be applied by due process is it so bad? As proposed above the complexities of the ruling complicities has labelled all as horrifically corrupt and useless. Yet they are remain the first point of call to anyone as victim of a criminal situation. The outcome of that may or may not be satisfactory but regardless the RTP are rubbished totally.

However I believe Joe Public will continue the same attitude for as long as the organization remains as it is. That is the problem moreso than the majority of individual RTP.

Posted

Being ex-police myself, and although I can see where the writer is coming from, the ills of this country have to dealt with from the top down or the bottom up.

If police officers never took small sums mentioned but made all offenders pay the correct fine and dealt withy them expeditiously then slowly the Police would have the vast majority applaud them, they could have their pay increased because you would not need so many as 75% foi the public would adhere to the law.

Then the Police could concentrate on dealing with all those aspects that tarnish their name, Casinos, Brothels, bars, in fact anything in which it is felt is slightly illegal and put a stop to that from the Mafia down to the lowly loan shark.

Then this country would start to reap what it sows increased tourism, safer streets, better people generally, even the Hi-sos would have to toe the line , no special cases anymore .

Then maybe Thailand can claw its way out the pit it is slipping even deeper into judging by the news and the police themselves could then hold up their heads and be praised for doing a job they are supposed to do. Not the one they are currently doing.

Individual RTP who took it upon themselves to "expedite" correctness would likely be summoned to a very distant place for attitude adjustment.

Posted

While your average Officer Somchai may be a decent, hardworking person, there is little doubt that, alongside the RTA, the RTP is one of the largest criminal organisations in the nation. One only need to look at the vast levels of unusual wealth in the upper ranks (a snippet of this can be seen in the declared assets of the 11 RTP officers handpicked to form the NLA), and the the conspicuous purchase of positions within the agency, with the asking price for each position being revealed openly.

Thailand will never be a safe country, it will never reduce the horrific road toll, nor ever attain status of developed nation unless a complete top-to-bottom restructure of the RTP is undertaken, decentralising its command structure, and transferring its reporting to the Ministry of Justice, recruiting overseas advisors/trainers, imposing strict ethical guidelines, sacking every single one of the tens of thousands (140,000?) of criminals currently sitting in inactive posts, and providing a living wage to officers.

Recruiting overseas advisors/trainers - you can't be serious the only interest these people have is to feather their own nest.

How can a foreigner who are mostly from the former colonial empire have any interest in a country which is not his country of birth, as a matter of fact, the country involved was probably one of his own country (empire) colonial subject. In case of Thailand the Thais pride themselves that they never were a colony of a western empire, maybe so, but upon digging deeper in to past world history / investigation you will learn that Thailand was under the jackboots of the French and Great Britain who arbitrarily changed the borders at their whim, a problem Thailand is still saddled with in the begin of the 21st century. I do not want to name names because that gets TVF's knickers in a twist. But just look around seriously for yourself if you really have any interest in Thailand.

Posted

I rather be treated by a 100 Thai cop then then one USA or ozzy morons cops. When they talk or fart is pretty hard to tell the difference

Posted (edited)

"Why it's not easy to be a police officer" Episode 1 ( stay tuned)

post-243567-0-95344400-1460413182_thumb.

Superb impressionist skills from the little fella on the right.

Edited by Chicog
Posted

Big Chilli just busted into my consciousness as the clandestine subsidiary of the National News Bureau of Thailand. Only they've managed to ever lay it on so thick.

Posted

Yep! it must be a real chore,getting money from motorists that haven't even done anything wrong.Squeezing 1000's of baht from the drivers over the top.Threatening people with a night in the monkey house unless they fork up.Getting a monthly pay off form the bar owners that you say you will look after and never turn up.Getting the weekly free bang from a bar girl that has caught your attention after promising not to arrest her for prostitution.Never having to go to work after 6 pm at night.Being able to afford a mia noi (i wish i could) showing off to the nieghbours every Sunday when washing the new BMW 7 series.Frightening the life out of new, unaware tourists by carrying a gun.Knowing that the very sight of you in that brown uniform unnerves the general public.And being general Aholes where the ferang community is concerned.

And our leader posts a comment saying that when the public say bad things about the police....it makes them sadcheesy.gif

Well, the army has now got all your powers,watcha gonna do?

But to have a bar, prostituting girls is OK ?

Posted

Yep! it must be a real chore,getting money from motorists that haven't even done anything wrong.Squeezing 1000's of baht from the drivers over the top.Threatening people with a night in the monkey house unless they fork up.Getting a monthly pay off form the bar owners that you say you will look after and never turn up.Getting the weekly free bang from a bar girl that has caught your attention after promising not to arrest her for prostitution.Never having to go to work after 6 pm at night.Being able to afford a mia noi (i wish i could) showing off to the nieghbours every Sunday when washing the new BMW 7 series.Frightening the life out of new, unaware tourists by carrying a gun.Knowing that the very sight of you in that brown uniform unnerves the general public.And being general Aholes where the ferang community is concerned.

And our leader posts a comment saying that when the public say bad things about the police....it makes them sadcheesy.gif

Well, the army has now got all your powers,watcha gonna do?

But to have a bar, prostituting girls is OK ?

Posted

Yep! it must be a real chore,getting money from motorists that haven't even done anything wrong.Squeezing 1000's of baht from the drivers over the top.Threatening people with a night in the monkey house unless they fork up.Getting a monthly pay off form the bar owners that you say you will look after and never turn up.Getting the weekly free bang from a bar girl that has caught your attention after promising not to arrest her for prostitution.Never having to go to work after 6 pm at night.Being able to afford a mia noi (i wish i could) showing off to the nieghbours every Sunday when washing the new BMW 7 series.Frightening the life out of new, unaware tourists by carrying a gun.Knowing that the very sight of you in that brown uniform unnerves the general public.And being general Aholes where the ferang community is concerned.

And our leader posts a comment saying that when the public say bad things about the police....it makes them sadcheesy.gif

Well, the army has now got all your powers,watcha gonna do?

But to have a bar, prostituting girls is OK ?

Did you feel proud once you left the pimping game ?

Posted

Yep! it must be a real chore,getting money from motorists that haven't even done anything wrong.Squeezing 1000's of baht from the drivers over the top.Threatening people with a night in the monkey house unless they fork up.Getting a monthly pay off form the bar owners that you say you will look after and never turn up.Getting the weekly free bang from a bar girl that has caught your attention after promising not to arrest her for prostitution.Never having to go to work after 6 pm at night.Being able to afford a mia noi (i wish i could) showing off to the nieghbours every Sunday when washing the new BMW 7 series.Frightening the life out of new, unaware tourists by carrying a gun.Knowing that the very sight of you in that brown uniform unnerves the general public.And being general Aholes where the ferang community is concerned.

And our leader posts a comment saying that when the public say bad things about the police....it makes them sadcheesy.gif

Well, the army has now got all your powers,watcha gonna do?

But to have a bar, prostituting girls is OK ?

Did you feel proud once you left the pimping game ?

If it was your daughter, would you do it ?

No, but they are Thai, so, to you it is OK ?

As long as you get your cut.

Posted

"But anyone who takes the time to sit down and talk to some of them soon realizes this is unfair."

A brilliant fiction with a smattering of truth, quite a masterpiece.

My brother in-law is a reasonably high ranking cop and I have "taken the time and sat down and talked" with him and the simple fact is they are all corrupt...

There are levels of the corruption though, eg; the traffic stop 200 baht scam, the drugs found in your pocket or car 30,000 baht scam, or the brown envelopes for selected businesses paid each month to keep the doors open and their Lao/Burmese workers employed at slave wages and onwards and upwards.

Now there are actually cops that do not do the traffic 200 baht scam etc,etc, and are not active in the taking of tea money but they don't report it either which in itself is complicate in the corruption.

Also every cop know the wages of speaking out against his fellow partners in crime, which starts with transfer followed by trumped up criminal charges then family harassment and finally they will wake up dead.

Perfect example , The Thai cops that is currently in Australia requesting Asylum due to his reporting on the human trafficking that is reported as almost cleaned up and finished.

So yeah the reputation of the BIB is well and truly deserved and no amount of apologist's can cover it up.

Every station should have at least 2 separate and undercover internal affairs cops investigating and reporting on corruption for Thailand to have any chance of being some what cleaned up.

I agree with everything you wrote right up to the last line: the root cause of the corruption problem in the RTP is too deep to be resolved without a complete top-to-bottom restructure of the entire RTP.

The primary problem of the RTP, the primary cause of its endemic corruption, lies with its structure. The RTP is a state agency with a juristic person status under the prime minister’s command. The agency is divided into central and regional offices, all of which are under the responsibility of a single commander-in-chief, the Commissioner-General. The chain of command descends downwards to the police station level. The organisational structure is centralised, with a 230,000-strong force nationwide.

This organisational structure brings with it several problems, most of which contribute to corruption. The first problem, as mentioned is the salary scale for police officers, which is very low compared with that of their foreign counterparts and even with the salaries paid to officials in similar Thai organisations such as the Department of Special Investigation, court prosecutors, or other officials involved in the criminal justice process. RTP officers holding a bachelor’s degree or better receiving an initial salary of only 8,340 baht (260 USD), compared with 17,560 baht (548 USD) earned by justice officials. Moreover, the entry-level salary of police officers with a sub-bachelor education is a mere 6,800 baht (212 USD). It's no wonder most police resort to petty corruption, coercing bribes from the public or extorting money from traffic law violators, in order to make ends meet.

Part of the stated reason why the average salary of Thai policemen is so low is the sheer size of personnel at 230,000, making it difficult to initiate a wholesale pay rise to ensure all earn enough to meet rising living expenses. For example, if all policemen in the agency were to receive a 5,000 baht increase in monthly salary, the government would have to pay an additional 15 billion baht (420 million USD) annually. Of course if they sacked every one of the tens-of-thousands (140,000?) of officers sitting in 'inactive posts' that figure could be cut significantly.

Another problem with the centralised structure of the police force is that high-level officials in the central office can appoint officers at the regional level. Moreover, since there are more officers at the commissioned level than at lower levels, with the former being granted power to hire or fire the latter, the reasons for promotions or demotions are unrelated to work performance, but rather to the personal relationships of officers with higher-ranking officials. In addition, since the Royal Thai Police changed its name from the Police Department and came under the control Prime Minister’s Office in 2004, politicians have become much more involved in the appointment process of policemen.

The worst problem of all is the conspicuous purchase of positions within the agency, as mentioned above, with the asking price for each position being revealed openly. Once those who bought their way up start working in their new positions, they will undergo a ‘payback’ period during which they extract bribes and protection money from illegal business operators to make up for the money ‘invested’ in buying their higher positions.

Structural reform of the Royal Thai Police toward a more decentralised system would not only cut the line of command and reduce widespread corruption among officers, but would allow for recruitment and postings to be awarded on merit, not based on nepotism. Such reform will be able to alleviate corruption problems since they are inextricably linked to a centralised police system that results in high-level officers having too much power. The unfortunate consequences of this are embezzlement of government funds, since the funds are allocated to a single agency; bribery from citizens at a high frequency and amounts, since the bribes are passed up to higher-ranked officials along the chain of command; and collection of protection money, which is also passed up the chain of command, from illegal business operators.

The distribution or separation of police power would be effective in partially severing the chain of command that in turn can discourage the passing of bribes. It would also reduce the power of high-level officials, making them unable to intervene in the appointment process of lower-ranked policemen, which in turn can prevent the purchases of positions that are one of the causes of bribery and protection money collection. Most importantly, the decentralisation of police power or the downsizing of the agency would result in a general increase in police salaries, weakening the oft-mentioned reason for corruption.

Even though such reform would change Royal Thai Police for the better, the agency still lacks commanders willing to sacrifice their personal benefits for the greater good.

The excuse about why a salary increase is not possible is always amusing to me: On my way to work I normally see about 30 turning violations (which I believe is 1000 Baht fine) I also see about the same in running red lights (2000 Baht fine). So in my daily 30min commute I spot about 100 000 Baht. I'm sure the police could realistically collect 5 million a day if the were bothered and could then increase salaries by 10000 Baht a month.

BUT, big big BUT: A salary increase won't change anything. Ask yourselves WHY a person with a Bachelor's degree would take such a low paying job? Because they want a part of the action i.e they are morally corrupt people to start with so giving them an increase will just be an additional bonus. Honestly I think if you fired all 200 000 and hired 50 000 at a salary of 40 000 Baht + we might actually start seeing an effective police force.

It worked in Hong Kong back in the 1970s. Of course the reforms have been wearing off since, especially since 1997.

Posted

I rather be treated by a 100 Thai cop then then one USA or ozzy morons cops. When they talk or fart is pretty hard to tell the difference

So in effect you want to deal with cops who take bribes rather than enforce the law. You are as big a part of the problem as those scum in the BIB who extort bribes.

Posted

In Thailand the police force was established over 500 years ago And practically remained unchanged except their professionalism. Salary less than $6000 per/y., no additional perks. USA, Australia, England established approx 180 years ago, salaries $ 67000,00 p/y plus hundreds of perks...... Need to go any further?????

Posted

Clearly Mad Max lives on another planet. We do not need 'Farang Apologists' for Thai corruption plse. Keep that for where u came from Maximilliam !!

The difference between the private sector you condemn & the Thai police you make excuses for are -

+ Thai police use my THB tax money, the private sector does not,

+ Thai police demand tea-money to do everyday simple jobs which police are already paid for by tax-payers. Its called a monthly salary. Sadly Thai police operate like it is a business; when the only business I know is the private sector.

+ Thai police can stop me or anyone for real or imagined problems (be it over-speeding or laughing at a policeman or questioning a policeman's story). The private sector will need a bit of effort & help to stop me or anyone for squeezing tea-money. In fact the only time the private sector can contact me is if I 1st contact them for a product or service.

+ Comparing like-with-like is the way we address issues of corruption. Comparing apples with oranges as you are doing to make a foolish point seems childish & lacks intelligence.

Hope your 'Apologist rant' wins you some friends among the Thai police whom you are clearly seeking to get on-side....because ur IQ level needs all the help it can get. Shame.

Posted

Just for the record - Wechsler is a Russian who claims to have been KGB back in the day (I'm told that there is some truth to this). He previously worked for the unnamed newspaper's Spectrum section where he did a lot of exposes, some of which required a considerable amount of nerve - drug dealers, fake goods, street prostitution and so on. He's getting on in years now - I met him briefly more than 10 years ago and he was approaching retirement age then. He had a lot of wild conspiracy theories, and was prepared to break journalistic ethics to follow them up. One of them involved - how extraordinary - a certain "clothed" gentleman with a predilection for bullet-proof limousines and go-go girls. :) - I wish he;d followed that one up :)

Posted

They deserve all our sympathy and pity. Of course it is difficult to be a police officer in Thailand! Just imagine, it is incredible stressful: first you need to extort money from the public to pay back family debts incured when they helped you buy the post, after you need continuously to be diligently extorting money in order to have the cash to buy better positions and finally when you start to make some money you need to ensure that the whole things pays of and you can display the wealth a policeman is supposed to have. How stressful!

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