Hi Everyone,

Not really sure about what my options are.

I'm from Hong Kong and I'm married to a Thai lady in Hong Kong. We would like to relocate to Bangkok this year. I work for an American MNC as a regional sales manager. We have been selling our products to Thai distributors and we don't have a branch office or any legal entity in Thailand. For my relocation, I can get non-immigrant O visa easily from the Thai Consulate General in HK but I'm not sure how to get working permit and work legally. Does my company have to set up a Thai company first or I can get a working permit with my foreign employment contract? Or Do I not even need a working permit? I just don't want to get into trouble with the labor or tax department later.

Hope you can help me with this. Thanks.

You would need a work permit to legally work.

To get a work permit requires working for a registered company, If your employer agreed they could set up representative office that would allow you to get a work permit.

Some info to get you started...

• In order to work in Thailand you need work permit and that can only be issued to employees of companies legally operating in Thailand.
• You can work/get a work permit with a non 'O' visa/extension of stay based on marriage so I suggest that is the visa you should get. That way your permission to stay is not linked to your work.
• Without a work permit you are pretty much limited to attending meetings on behalf of your company.
• If you are planning to base yourself here and work in Thailand it would be beneficial for your company to set up a legal entity here.

Edited April 14, 201610 yr by elviajero

Since you are from HK and work for an MNC you would probably qualify for an APEC card issued by Immigration Hong Kong.

Since you say it is a regional role, depending on what activities you will be undertaking and providing you are not being paid in Thailand, an APEC card may suffice.

The requirements for setting up a rep office are onerous compared with other countries in the region. And in my opinion, too expensive just for the purposes of getting one work permit.

Since you are from HK and work for an MNC you would probably qualify for an APEC card issued by Immigration Hong Kong.

Since you say it is a regional role, depending on what activities you will be undertaking and providing you are not being paid in Thailand, an APEC card may suffice.

The requirements for setting up a rep office are onerous compared with other countries in the region. And in my opinion, too expensive just for the purposes of getting one work permit.

The APEC card only allows short term (90) day entries for business purposes. I does not allow a person to "work" in Thailand and frequent back to back use of the card would,for sure, attract the attention of Immigration.

I do not believe this offers a realistic solution to the OP.

I believe an APEC card only gives 60 day stays.

As said before, unless your company is willing to move a significant part of the operation to Thailand, you are better off with just a Non-imm O visa and possibly an extension. You could also look into the Elite Card which might work for your situation and least would give the pretence of a business reason to be in Thailand long term.

As an American company they are eligible to setup a treat of Amity company which simplifies the ownership issue. Also BOI has other benefits available for companies wishing to setup operations in Thailand.

TH

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

yes

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

Without question.

Sadly Thailand has very restrictive work regulations which are mired in 'old school' thinking.. Mobility of work, teleworking, or being single person representatives or businesses simply doesnt slot into their idea of what work or a company is or does.

I think it is undoubtedly something that costs them money, in direct taxes that could be paid and in new industries and growth that they restrict from happening.. But as always, its their country.

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

OP, what sort of visa do you have at the moment for meeting your retailers and customers?

If that is good for your role at present, why change it? ie, if it is legal at present, then your main concern would be the permission to stay in Thailand more than the work permit side.

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

Without question.

Sadly Thailand has very restrictive work regulations which are mired in 'old school' thinking.. Mobility of work, teleworking, or being single person representatives or businesses simply doesnt slot into their idea of what work or a company is or does.

I think it is undoubtedly something that costs them money, in direct taxes that could be paid and in new industries and growth that they restrict from happening.. But as always, its their country.

You do not need a work permit to come to Thailand to attend a business meeting. My former company has been bringing people in on 30 day exempt for meetings for 30 years with no problem. The OP can visit and meet his clients all he wants without a work permit.

His problem is complicated by his wanting to live here as well but keep his employment in HK. If all he does is go to meetings and does not maintain an office here, continuing to use his HK office, he will have no problems.

I just don't see how his company is going to allow him to do this. Even in this internet age, he cannot run a regional sales office for a HK base company from a blackberry or laptop in Thailand. He will still need to spend the majority of his time in HK and come see his wife when he comes to Thailand for meetings.

TH

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

OP, what sort of visa do you have at the moment for meeting your retailers and customers?

If that is good for your role at present, why change it? ie, if it is legal at present, then your main concern would be the permission to stay in Thailand more than the work permit side.

Hi Chrisinth,

There is a bilateral agreement between HK and Thailand and I can stay in Thailand for 30 days without a visa. I do travel more than once a month to different countries, which technically means I can stay in Thailand for long term without a visa, but I don't know it's legal or not.

KL

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

If this is all you are going to be doing and you are paid outside Thailand then I believe that an APEC card would indeed negate the need for a work permit.

This is taken from the Thailand-Australia FTA:

Thailand will not require a work permit for Australian citizens who are business visitors conducting business meetings in Thailand for up to 15 days, and up to 90 days for APEC Travel Card Holders.

And this is from the Thailand-New Zealand FTA

New Zealand business visitors who hold a non-immigrant visa will be permitted to attend business meetings, seminars or to conduct business contacts without engaging in making direct sales of goods and services to the general public, supplying services, or acquiring remuneration in Thailand, for up to 15 days each time, unless such business visitors hold an APEC Business Travel Card, in which case the stay may be for up to 90 days each time. New Zealand business visitors who do not hold an APEC Business Travel Card, are to notify the Department of Employment before attending business meetings, seminars or conducting business contacts in Thailand.

Though these excerpts refer to citizens of Australia/NZ, I mention them because they make the point that an APEC card holder does not require a WP to do business in Thailand in some circumstances.

The APEC card holder may enter Thailand for up to 90 days on each entry. I have never seen any mention of a limit on the number or frequency of such visits.

As of September last year, APEC cards have a validity of 5 years whereas previously it was 3 years.

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

Without question.

Sadly Thailand has very restrictive work regulations which are mired in 'old school' thinking.. Mobility of work, teleworking, or being single person representatives or businesses simply doesnt slot into their idea of what work or a company is or does.

I think it is undoubtedly something that costs them money, in direct taxes that could be paid and in new industries and growth that they restrict from happening.. But as always, its their country.

You do not need a work permit to come to Thailand to attend a business meeting. My former company has been bringing people in on 30 day exempt for meetings for 30 years with no problem. The OP can visit and meet his clients all he wants without a work permit.

His problem is complicated by his wanting to live here as well but keep his employment in HK. If all he does is go to meetings and does not maintain an office here, continuing to use his HK office, he will have no problems.

I just don't see how his company is going to allow him to do this. Even in this internet age, he cannot run a regional sales office for a HK base company from a blackberry or laptop in Thailand. He will still need to spend the majority of his time in HK and come see his wife when he comes to Thailand for meetings.

TH

He wants to live here, and conduct meetings here.. By any measure that needs a work permit.. 30 day exemptions are not going to cover that.

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

OP, what sort of visa do you have at the moment for meeting your retailers and customers?

If that is good for your role at present, why change it? ie, if it is legal at present, then your main concern would be the permission to stay in Thailand more than the work permit side.

Hi Chrisinth,

There is a bilateral agreement between HK and Thailand and I can stay in Thailand for 30 days without a visa. I do travel more than once a month to different countries, which technically means I can stay in Thailand for long term without a visa, but I don't know it's legal or not.

KL

Yes you can come and go.. But more and more people using 30 day visa exempt entries are being flagged, held up, grilled about where they work, and sometimes told 'last entry without a visa'.

This would have worked 10 or even 5 years ago.. Now ?? not the way to base a lifestyle.

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

OP, what sort of visa do you have at the moment for meeting your retailers and customers?

If that is good for your role at present, why change it? ie, if it is legal at present, then your main concern would be the permission to stay in Thailand more than the work permit side.

Hi Chrisinth,

There is a bilateral agreement between HK and Thailand and I can stay in Thailand for 30 days without a visa. I do travel more than once a month to different countries, which technically means I can stay in Thailand for long term without a visa, but I don't know it's legal or not.

KL

So currently you are entering Thailand on a visa exemption (?) and conducting business on that entry?

I really am not trying to be critical here, but i would discuss with your MNC the actual legality of what you are doing in their name.

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

OP, what sort of visa do you have at the moment for meeting your retailers and customers?

If that is good for your role at present, why change it? ie, if it is legal at present, then your main concern would be the permission to stay in Thailand more than the work permit side.

Hi Chrisinth,

There is a bilateral agreement between HK and Thailand and I can stay in Thailand for 30 days without a visa. I do travel more than once a month to different countries, which technically means I can stay in Thailand for long term without a visa, but I don't know it's legal or not.

KL

IMO if you are travelling to Thailand for the purpose of business you should have a non 'B' (Business) visa to be legal.

The problem comes in knowing where the line is between 'business' and 'work'. If your activities for this company are limited to business you don't need a work permit, but if you are considered to be working you do. Crazy in my opinion as someone conducting business on behalf of an employer is working!

If you are going to be working from home, only conducting meetings in Thailand, regularly traveling abroad and have a non 'O' multiple entry visa to visit your wife then I believe, regardless of the legality, that immigration wouldn't have a problem.

The only way you can know for sure is to talk to Immigration and maybe even the Department of Labour.

Edited April 15, 201610 yr by elviajero

Get a letter from your employer, addressed to the Thai consulate in Hong Kong, stating the facts that you are employed as Regional Sales Manager and as part of your job you need to visit importers, retailers and users of the company's products in Thailand and other countries in the region several times a year. With this letter, apply in Hong Kong for an APEC card or, if you can't get that, for a multiple-entry non-B visa.

For Thai immigration, ie arrival/departure card, etc, your permanent address will continue to be in Hong Kong, eg c/o American MNC.

This will allow you to stay in Thailand for up to 90 days at a time.

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

If this is all you are going to be doing and you are paid outside Thailand then I believe that an APEC card would indeed negate the need for a work permit.

This is taken from the Thailand-Australia FTA:

Thailand will not require a work permit for Australian citizens who are business visitors conducting business meetings in Thailand for up to 15 days, and up to 90 days for APEC Travel Card Holders.

And this is from the Thailand-New Zealand FTA

New Zealand business visitors who hold a non-immigrant visa will be permitted to attend business meetings, seminars or to conduct business contacts without engaging in making direct sales of goods and services to the general public, supplying services, or acquiring remuneration in Thailand, for up to 15 days each time, unless such business visitors hold an APEC Business Travel Card, in which case the stay may be for up to 90 days each time. New Zealand business visitors who do not hold an APEC Business Travel Card, are to notify the Department of Employment before attending business meetings, seminars or conducting business contacts in Thailand.

Though these excerpts refer to citizens of Australia/NZ, I mention them because they make the point that an APEC card holder does not require a WP to do business in Thailand in some circumstances.

The APEC card holder may enter Thailand for up to 90 days on each entry. I have never seen any mention of a limit on the number or frequency of such visits.

As of September last year, APEC cards have a validity of 5 years whereas previously it was 3 years.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. APEC card seems to be my best option. However, do I still need a non-imm "o" visa as I will need to stay with my wife in Thailand?

With an APEC card you can enter for 90 days at a time for business purposes but while in Thailand you can live with whoever you like.

The limit on permission to stay on the APEC card is why I suggested the Elite Card. A bit expensive, but it is designed with business travelers in mind. It is the equivalent of a non-imm B visa.

TH

I'm not sure if my company is willing to open a Thai company to hire me. After I move to Thailand with my wife, my role will be the same, meeting with Thai resellers and their customers. Do I have to have a WP?

If this is all you are going to be doing and you are paid outside Thailand then I believe that an APEC card would indeed negate the need for a work permit.

This is taken from the Thailand-Australia FTA:

Thailand will not require a work permit for Australian citizens who are business visitors conducting business meetings in Thailand for up to 15 days, and up to 90 days for APEC Travel Card Holders.

And this is from the Thailand-New Zealand FTA

New Zealand business visitors who hold a non-immigrant visa will be permitted to attend business meetings, seminars or to conduct business contacts without engaging in making direct sales of goods and services to the general public, supplying services, or acquiring remuneration in Thailand, for up to 15 days each time, unless such business visitors hold an APEC Business Travel Card, in which case the stay may be for up to 90 days each time. New Zealand business visitors who do not hold an APEC Business Travel Card, are to notify the Department of Employment before attending business meetings, seminars or conducting business contacts in Thailand.

Though these excerpts refer to citizens of Australia/NZ, I mention them because they make the point that an APEC card holder does not require a WP to do business in Thailand in some circumstances.

The APEC card holder may enter Thailand for up to 90 days on each entry. I have never seen any mention of a limit on the number or frequency of such visits.

As of September last year, APEC cards have a validity of 5 years whereas previously it was 3 years.

Key word is "visitor" this wont work for someone living in Thailand. Also, my friend from Oz had an APEC card and was using that to live in Thailand. After his 4th boarder run they gave him a hard time and told him he needs to get a visa if he wants to live in Thailand that the APEC card is for business men coming to Thailand for meetings.

The limit on permission to stay on the APEC card is why I suggested the Elite Card. A bit expensive, but it is designed with business travelers in mind. It is the equivalent of a non-im

TH

No, sorry, it's not designed with business travellers in mind. And it's not the equivalent of a non B visa. Putting aside the fact it's ridiculously expensive, it is a special tourist visa that does not allow work. In other words, you could not possibly get a WP on an Elite visa without perhaps a conversion to non B, and the Thai Elite staff are keeping things very vague in regards to how that would work.

Edited April 15, 201610 yr by lkv

The limit on permission to stay on the APEC card is why I suggested the Elite Card. A bit expensive, but it is designed with business travelers in mind. It is the equivalent of a non-im

TH

No, sorry, it's not designed with business travellers in mind. And it's not the equivalent of a non B visa. Putting aside the fact it's ridiculously expensive, it is a special tourist visa that does not allow work. In other words, you could not possibly get a WP on an Elite visa without perhaps a conversion to non B, and the Thai Elite staff are keeping things very vague in regards to how that would work.

From the Elite Card site FAQ :

"I am currently working in Thailand and holding a work permit and Non "B" visa. What will happen if I get my Elite visa?

Once you obtain your Elite visa, you will need to cancel your Non "B" visa. You may cancel at Immigration Centre on the same day when you collect your Elite visa."

It is a bit confusing as the FAQ also says:

"After becoming an Elite member, can I get a work permit?

TE can facilitate member to get work permit by provide necessary information such as documents to prepare, time of processing, and also EPL service to go along with member at Government department. For work permit, member has to be hire by a company in Thailand and that the company has to issued documents for member to apply Non B visa. Work Permit can be done after member has Non-B visa and use that visa apply for work permit. TPC may help member to get work permit faster as it actually take 2 3 weeks. All rules and regulation applied accordingly including fee(s). "

But regardless, it is obvious you can have a work permit with the Elite visa.

TH

The limit on permission to stay on the APEC card is why I suggested the Elite Card. A bit expensive, but it is designed with business travelers in mind. It is the equivalent of a non-im

TH

No, sorry, it's not designed with business travellers in mind. And it's not the equivalent of a non B visa. Putting aside the fact it's ridiculously expensive, it is a special tourist visa that does not allow work. In other words, you could not possibly get a WP on an Elite visa without perhaps a conversion to non B, and the Thai Elite staff are keeping things very vague in regards to how that would work.

From the Elite Card site FAQ :

"I am currently working in Thailand and holding a work permit and Non "B" visa. What will happen if I get my Elite visa?

Once you obtain your Elite visa, you will need to cancel your Non "B" visa. You may cancel at Immigration Centre on the same day when you collect your Elite visa."

It is a bit confusing as the FAQ also says:

"After becoming an Elite member, can I get a work permit?

TE can facilitate member to get work permit by provide necessary information such as documents to prepare, time of processing, and also EPL service to go along with member at Government department. For work permit, member has to be hire by a company in Thailand and that the company has to issued documents for member to apply Non B visa. Work Permit can be done after member has Non-B visa and use that visa apply for work permit. TPC may help member to get work permit faster as it actually take 2 3 weeks. All rules and regulation applied accordingly including fee(s). "

But regardless, it is obvious you can have a work permit with the Elite visa.

TH

You cannot.

You can stay a member of Thailand Elite but you would lose the privileged entry visa as you need to change to a non 'B'.

But regardless, it is obvious you can have a work permit with the Elite visa.

TH

Far from being obvious I believed the elite visa was a 'employment prohibited' one..

Which is why they dance around it and are vague in really saying 'we might help you process changing onto a B and getting a work permit' negating much of the reason for paying for it.

The limit on permission to stay on the APEC card is why I suggested the Elite Card. A bit expensive, but it is designed with business travelers in mind. It is the equivalent of a non-im

TH

No, sorry, it's not designed with business travellers in mind. And it's not the equivalent of a non B visa. Putting aside the fact it's ridiculously expensive, it is a special tourist visa that does not allow work. In other words, you could not possibly get a WP on an Elite visa without perhaps a conversion to non B, and the Thai Elite staff are keeping things very vague in regards to how that would work.

From the Elite Card site FAQ :

"I am currently working in Thailand and holding a work permit and Non "B" visa. What will happen if I get my Elite visa?

Once you obtain your Elite visa, you will need to cancel your Non "B" visa. You may cancel at Immigration Centre on the same day when you collect your Elite visa."

It is a bit confusing as the FAQ also says:

"After becoming an Elite member, can I get a work permit?

TE can facilitate member to get work permit by provide necessary information such as documents to prepare, time of processing, and also EPL service to go along with member at Government department. For work permit, member has to be hire by a company in Thailand and that the company has to issued documents for member to apply Non B visa. Work Permit can be done after member has Non-B visa and use that visa apply for work permit. TPC may help member to get work permit faster as it actually take 2 3 weeks. All rules and regulation applied accordingly including fee(s). "

But regardless, it is obvious you can have a work permit with the Elite visa.

TH

You cannot.

You can stay a member of Thailand Elite but you would lose the privileged entry visa as you need to change to a non 'B'.

Doesn't matter and I'm not going to engage in a pointless argument about it as it does not apply to the OP since he cannot get a work permit or Non imm B visa as his employer does not have an entity in Thailand.

I was merely suggesting it as a alternative to an APEC card which has limited permission to stay and non imm O by marriage that has no business connotation but with an extension allows him to stay longer.

The Elite Card would allow him hassle free entry for 5 years (for 500k ThHB) and would identify him as a businessman that has the support of the Thai government. Apparently they have a government consergie service to facilitate interface with the government and private sector.

Anyway, his choice..

TH

Doesn't matter and I'm not going to engage in a pointless argument about it as it does not apply to the OP since he cannot get a work permit or Non imm B visa as his employer does not have an entity in Thailand.

I was merely suggesting it as a alternative to an APEC card which has limited permission to stay and non imm O by marriage that has no business connotation but with an extension allows him to stay longer.

That's also misleading, as the OP can obtain a Non B with the correct documentation from one of his clients. May I add, a multiple.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I think Thailand Elite is not something I'm interested in as it's too much money in the Thai living standard.