397 people died in road accidents during April 11-16

[wabothai]

Of course the majority is motorcycles. They are most vulnerable.

Let's see the figures of motocys pushed off the road, or made to lose balance.

Let us say Thai motorists.

[doctormann]

Bear in mind these are only the numbers who died at the scene,one wonders how many you could add,that died later in hospital.

yes they who die once they have left the scene dont count.

number's to the 16th so another day to add to.

You're right, Sunday needs to be included, so likely 450+ deaths for the 7 days, which is a significant increase over the last few years' figures . Typically, the range is 320-370.

Feel sorry for those starting the New Year having lost someone and clearly the safety campaign has not had the desired effect.

Should probably include all days up to and including Wednesday. Songkran continues in some places until 19/04 (Pattaya) and 20/04 (Bang Saray) and people will be returning home after that so there will certainly be more accidents.

DM

[z42]

Motorcycles again over 80%

How many of those fatalities are from motorcycles

Id love to see yearly figures.

I think the motorcycle thing does skew Thailands road fatality figures

The OP in this link here seems to be at complete odds with this article > http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/910846-higher-accidents-in-this-year-songkran-says-transport-minister/ <.

The minister for transport when talking about accidents during Songkrann singled out "trucks, vans and personal cars as being the most common vehicles involved in accidents"

Agencies obviously don't talk to each other, or some are more / less honest than others.

In short, a disgrace.

[Gerard052]

Bear in mind these are only the numbers who died at the scene,one wonders how many you could add,that died later in hospital.

STOP that farang thinking immediately!

It is not farang thinking, it's a fact, Marko is absolutely right. Do a little bit of research and you will find out for yourself.

[tuanku]

A plane crash with 397 fatalities would make it the 3rd worse in all time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_accidents_and_incidents

It would result in a massive enquiry, changes to both aircraft and procedures, and a significant cost to the operating airline.

In these road accident figures which most believe are understated (more likely as there is more to be gained by officials understating then overstating the problem) Thailand's government is accepting as unavoidable the equivalent of the third worst plane crash in history, every week, year after year, in just one country.

At the very least the top policemen and the Ministry officials responsible for roads and safety should be resigning in droves to make way for better men (or women)

[laislica]

Motorcycles again over 80%

How many of those fatalities are from motorcycles

Id love to see yearly figures.

I think the motorcycle thing does skew Thailands road fatality figures

They focus a lot on motorcycles because it is easier to stop and collect from them. Or impound them. Most of the fatalities are done to motorcyclist by cars. An accident is an accident no matter what kind of vehicle is used. Until the Bib start taking vehicles from every drunk and illegal driver the roads will never be safe.

You could focus on motorbikes everyday of the year, not because they are easier to stop, around Pattaya at least 70% either don't wear crash helmets, or have 3+ on a the bike, ride up the wrong way on the road etc, you don't have to check if they are drunk, they are just breaking the law.

"ride up the wrong way on the road"

Very often the road system requires several Km of road trip to the nearest legal U-Turn.

What are the probabilities of an accident on a short "wrong way trip" against those extra Km's on the "proper roads"?

Where we live the only direct road connecting out village is Tannon Rama II

We often see vehicles (not just m/c's) making a short "wrong way trip", but, they seem to be aware of the dangers and drive appropriately.

Even drivers using the roads correctly seem to be expecting this "wrong way traffic" and generally make space to allow it.

I'm not saying this practice is correct or even justified.

I'm trying to say that the road infrastructure is wrong .

However, could you imagine that if there were parallel m/c only roads, that other vehicles would not also use them?

Secondly, enforcement, but until the BiB are properly recruited, trained and paid nothing will change.

All solutions are expensive so don't expect any improvements any time soon!

You get what you pay for (sometimes 555)

Personally, I only ride a small scooter around the local, non-motorway roads so my observations are made as a passenger in vehicles driven by family members, taxis etc.

I have both car and m/c driving licenses.

@pukaao,

I understand you, keeping out of a car is good!

Yesterday we were invited by family to go on a road trip to visit nice temples.

The trip included a 4 hour boar trip.

Whilst my brother-in-law is an excellent driver and I feel safe with him....

It's not just his driving that matters, it's all the other stupid others who break the law, push and shove dangerously, crazy over/undertaking/lane changing etc

I would have preferred to stay at home and said so but.

In a week we leave Thailand for a six month stay in Europe so it would have been sad to miss the family day out and it was mostly on rural roads which have a slightly better safety record.

It was a fabulous day out BTW and I'm glad we didn't miss it!

Courage is never to let your actions be influenced by your fears. ~ Arthur Koestler

[DaveinAsia]

To be quite honest this celebration is a complete waste of space, time and resources. This year I was right in the middle of it all in a prime location, a party that went on for 5/6 days, good crowd of friends/family, plenty of drink/food, a deafening soundsystem, privacy when needed, etc. It was set up in a professional way and the whole shebang was there. I only indulged on day 1 because of responsibilities but was there all other days too but only observing. Seriously, what a load of nonsense. Every day is just a repeat of the previous one. It's just a big excuse for many folks to go home and get hammered for a week, so no wonder there is such mayhem. Try to imagine 100's of 1000's of already incapacitated drivers all driving home at the same time, then getting drunk and driving around town and then driving back to BKK again. That's asking for trouble. I didn't celebrate this booze festival(that also involves throwing or shooting water) since 2011 for good reason. In it's original form it's a lovely celebration but as with many things here the 'big bosses in charge' changed it to gain more profits. Nowadays it's a poor mans booze escape. Most Thais with the abilities fly out of the country for a week and I don't blame them. If it weren't for the billions of baht profit I'm pretty sure yer man in charge would cancel this form of Songkran and bring it back to it's original form

• April 13th--Wan Sungkharn Lohng. On this day the people clean their houses and engage in preparations for the new year festival.The Chiangmai Songgran parade takes place on this day with Buddha images, floats, contingents from the province's different districts,musicians and local beauties in traditional costume,all of whom are liberally drenched by the spectators as they march.
  
• April 14th--Wan Nao. On Wan Nao people prepared cooked meals and preserved food of the Buddhist merit-making activities that occur the next day.This is also the day that people go down to the river and gather buckets of sand which are used to construct molded sand chedis, decorated with flowers and paper streamers, in temple courtyards.This practice is an old practice intended to raise the level of the temple grounds.
  
• April 15th--Wan Payawan. On this day the new year begins with early morning merit-making at the temples where the people offer preserved and cooked foods, fresh fruits,robes and other offering goods to the monks.Traditionally this was the day when gentle water play began but this has developed into the aquatic free-for-all that stretches across the entire festival.

[darren84310]

The other day the Bangkok Post reported on the Songkran road death rate on the front page, while on the back page celebrated the festival with a picture of 2 guys on a motorbike (no helmets) getting soaked by a girl throwing water in the drivers face (he had his eyes closed as a result).

I doubt even the Bangkok Post realised how ridiculous this was..... and they're supposed to be among the better educated in Thai society.

[cumgranosalum]

Interesting last paragraph in the OP.

The suggestion I assume is that we should be using buses and taxi's. Who has ever heard of a driver of these vehicles being the worse for wear?. I think I would take my chances in my own vehicle if I have to go somewhere.

Statistically they are safer.

if you have been drinking even a taxi is safer....so long as they haven't......

Edited April 18, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[FredNL]

I decided that this Songkran was the last holiday that I have been traveling by car. No more trips during / arround New Year and Songkran.

Way too many drunks, morrons, idiots, fools, &lt;deleted&gt; and others you don't want to see on the road during a 1000 km trip.

It is not good for my heart seeying all of these driving their cars, pickups, busses, trucks and motorcycles.

[cumgranosalum]

These figures (of injuries at least) from the OP are very likely to have been heavily watered down in spite of them being the worst ever statistics already. Get this, In the BP today, the Public Health Ministry's deputy permanent secretary said that upwards of 25,000 (twenty five thousand) had been admitted to hospitals in Thailand to receive treatment related to road accidents during the songkrann period so far.

The same person said that the 3800 or so that were reported injured in official statistics are seriously injured. The other 21000 or so I guess will have less serious injuries (whatever that means).

This is absolutely abhorrent however it is dressed up. I've been here a few years, but even am pretty shocked just by the numbers mentioned.

PS, I can't link to BP as per forum rules, but if you type "worst ever road toll songkrann bangkok post"

Road accident stats Are gathered in 3 categories. fatal, serious and non-serious - this is the norm worldwide.

it is gathering and reporting of the incidents that is questionable - regardless of secondary sources (newspapers) you need to be looking at the primary source. this is not easy and if you look for collisions, rather than outcomes it gets even more difficult.

The thing is the UK, one of the lowest fatalities in the world, has a similar collision rate to Thailand - it is the OUTCOME that is different.

Edited April 18, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[wvavin]

Nobody wants anybody to die but I always hope that would be more drunk drivers to die as soon as possible and as many as possible because our roads would be much safer without them.

[GanDoonToonPet]

there is a myth perpetuated on TV about who does and doesn't count as road death but you really need to go to the organisation that is compiling and then publishing the stats......

Just one of the many unsubstantiated 'memes' on here. Latest figures are from the WHO Global Status Report on Road Safety 2015. There is a footnote that states the source for the data:

*Bureau of Policy and Strategy, Office of Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Public Health. Defined as unlimited time period following crash.

[ianf]

I think the motorbikes are responsible for a lot of deaths but sadly the Thai authorities only count those who actually die at the scene of the accident.I always go away from Chiangmai for Songkran!!

Are the 'motorbikes responsible' or is it the dangerous throwing of water and so on at people on motor bikes and bicycles that is responsible for at least some of these? This is the most stupid practice I have witnessed anywhere in the world. When will they put a stop to it?

[torpedo1970]

That's a big loss of face!!

They did the Talk the talk last week, but did not deliver the walk the walk this week...

In my local area there have actually been less police presence on the road this year compared to last ones....

[cumgranosalum]

there is a myth perpetuated on TV about who does and doesn't count as road death but you really need to go to the organisation that is compiling and then publishing the stats......

Just one of the many unsubstantiated 'memes' on here. Latest figures are from the WHO Global Status Report on Road Safety 2015. There is a footnote that states the source for the data:

*Bureau of Policy and Strategy, Office of Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Public Health. Defined as unlimited time period following crash.

WHO have a detailed report on how their stats are created and sourced - you can download it... There are some ridiculous assumptions about how the current stats are compiled on this thread.

i doubt if the overall changes in road death stats very dramatically from 2015 to 2016 and as 2016 isn't over yet those figures won't be available for some time. one also has to question the speed at which Thailand has released these figures - they need to be analysed properly over the next few days/weeks to make any real sense.

however the parity with the daily norm seems more than coincidental to me.

do you have another interpretation?

[GanDoonToonPet]

The OP in this link here seems to be at complete odds with this article > http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/910846-higher-accidents-in-this-year-songkran-says-transport-minister/ <.

Not it doesn't. One is about number of deaths & the other is about number of accidents!

[GanDoonToonPet]

there is a myth perpetuated on TV about who does and doesn't count as road death but you really need to go to the organisation that is compiling and then publishing the stats......

Just one of the many unsubstantiated 'memes' on here. Latest figures are from the WHO Global Status Report on Road Safety 2015. There is a footnote that states the source for the data:

*Bureau of Policy and Strategy, Office of Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Public Health. Defined as unlimited time period following crash.

WHO have a detailed report on how their stats are created and sourced - you can download it... There are some ridiculous assumptions about how the current stats are compiled on this thread.

i doubt if the overall changes in road death stats very dramatically from 2015 to 2016 and as 2016 isn't over yet those figures won't be available for some time. one also has to question the speed at which Thailand has released these figures - they need to be analysed properly over the next few days/weeks to make any real sense.

however the parity with the daily norm seems more than coincidental to me.

do you have another interpretation?

Thanks, I'll download the document.

Although, as the latest data are from 2012, I suspect they used a negative binomial regression to extrapolate the trend using covariates such as increase in population, GDP etc. Since there has been no change in safety standards or enforcement, I suspect that the 2015 figures are accurate.

Strange that they don't publish the rankings. Since I'm at a loose end, I'll have a go at busting the 'second highest' myth. One noticeable change is the reduction in fatalities per 100,000 from 44 to 36...

I agree that comparing data from a very low sample of 7 days is frankly pointless.

Re the change in 'only' a year. The difference in the data from the last WHO reports is:

2010: 13,766

2012: 14,059

Roughly an increase of 1 per day over 2 years, so no appreciable difference.

[fishhooks]

Didn't I read somewhere there was going to be a "massive" police presence on the roads to diminish the typical road carnage? Another example of ....

With due respect to your post, doubling, or more the police would make no difference whatsoever.

To a large percentage of the driving population, any form of common sense just goes out the door during this period and I doubt even well into another century, the death and injury numbers will still be extremely high.

I think we should all realize, there is at present no serious consideration of the dangers during this period and it will be for a long long time the carnage will just be put down to Songkran.

No need to think any further............. THAT IS IT!

[cumgranosalum]

there is a myth perpetuated on TV about who does and doesn't count as road death but you really need to go to the organisation that is compiling and then publishing the stats......

Just one of the many unsubstantiated 'memes' on here. Latest figures are from the WHO Global Status Report on Road Safety 2015. There is a footnote that states the source for the data:

*Bureau of Policy and Strategy, Office of Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Public Health. Defined as unlimited time period following crash.

WHO have a detailed report on how their stats are created and sourced - you can download it... There are some ridiculous assumptions about how the current stats are compiled on this thread.

i doubt if the overall changes in road death stats very dramatically from 2015 to 2016 and as 2016 isn't over yet those figures won't be available for some time. one also has to question the speed at which Thailand has released these figures - they need to be analysed properly over the next few days/weeks to make any real sense.

however the parity with the daily norm seems more than coincidental to me.

do you have another interpretation?

Thanks, I'll download the document.

Although, as the latest data are from 2012, I suspect they used a negative binomial regression to extrapolate the trend using covariates such as increase in population, GDP etc. Since there has been no change in safety standards or enforcement, I suspect that the 2015 figures are accurate.

Strange that they don't publish the rankings. Since I'm at a loose end, I'll have a go at busting the 'second highest' myth. One noticeable change is the reduction in fatalities per 100,000 from 44 to 36...

I agree that comparing data from a very low sample of 7 days is frankly pointless.

Re the change in 'only' a year. The difference in the data from the last WHO reports is:

2010: 13,766

2012: 14,059

Roughly an increase of 1 per day over 2 years, so no appreciable difference.

Yes, i remember a famously inexplicable drop one year.

the main changes in Thailand regarding road safety have not been road safety enforcement as you point out, but the number of vehicles has increased dramatically, the proportion of 2 to 4 wheels and a lot of road building to very poor quality and design. driver demographics are changing as more and more people are buying their first car - no longer always a pickup but often a super-mini or small sedan.

this is the WHO document I refer to

GLOBAL STATUS REPORT ON ROAD SAFETY 2015

Edited April 18, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[TEFLKrabi]

I would imagine that, considering the massive increase in numbers of vehicles on the road over this period, these figures are well below the daily averages.

[ChrisY1]

And people say the military are doing a good job??

[hEaDy]

We can't stop people from dying....but we can stop ourselves from dying in a certain way.

So during this time, NEVER GET IN A CAR and avoid places where a car has good odds of hitting you.

simple.

now you won't be this statistic. or odds much, much, much lower...

Finally someone who gets it

I have avoided Songran like the plague for more than 20 years by staying home - I love it!

So what most of you have learned (I already knew it) is that people die everyday in every country...

And how they choose to exit the game is entirely up to them and is none of your business...

Focus upon your own life experience and stop being so negative and judging other people and you'll be happier I promise

[eddie61]

After 25 years of hearing the same nonsense from authorities, I feel completely detached from the story.

I think if people have a death wish, let them continue in this way. The world won't stop spinning because a few million people threw water and a few hundred less are walking on earth.

You make your bed and lie in it....

Personally, I stay at home with 2 large boxes of beer, and aircon.

I feel sorry for those innocent bystanders, and those children whose parents were irresponsible with their lives.

For the rest, well, ...................If you enjoy dangerous sports, don't grumble about the odd negative outcome, and don't expect society to pick up the bits.

[flyingdoc]

Appalling carnage!

[natway09]

IF a policeman had bothered coming up our Soi he could have had 50 drunk motorcyclists locked up for dangerous driving, driving the wrong way up a one way street & no helmets anywhere.

The police have given up (let the army do it)

[GanDoonToonPet]

...this is the WHO document I refer to

GLOBAL STATUS REPORT ON ROAD SAFETY 2015

Yes, that's the document I referred to in my post. OK here's the rankings for those countries with fatalities above 30.0 per 100,000 population*

1. Libya 73.4

2. Thailand 36.2

3. Malawi 35.0

4. Liberia 33.7

5. DR Congo 33.2

6. Tanzania 32.9

7. Central African Republic 32.4

8. Iran / Rwanda 32.1

9. Mozambique 31.6

10. Togo / Sao Tome & Principe 31.1

*WHO Global Status Report on Road Safety 2015

So Thailand remains in second place.

Edited April 18, 2016 by GanDoonToonPet

[seajae]

drove to Saraburi from Surat Thani then returned and did not see one cop on the road, they had the lane changers as usual down to one lane but there was not a cop to be seen, this was morning, afternoon and night time. So much for the police presence that was bandied about, guess it was too hot for the boys so they stayed in the airconditioned offices instead.

[mikiea]

Motorcycles again over 80%

How many of those fatalities are from motorcycles

Id love to see yearly figures.

I think the motorcycle thing does skew Thailands road fatality figures

skew ? ? ? ... uthai ....ehhhh..... what is it you are failing to understand ? motocy death does not count ? are the motocy people not dead in your mind ? what about suv's ? truck's ? pedestrians being at wrong place wrong time ? you would LOVE to see how many people died over the years on motocy's ? LOVE ? good god man talk less or choose your words with more care , you come across as a pompas ex cia , special forces , black op's commander that has been here way to long .

[freedom4life]

A good New Year celebration...I love Songkran.