next time use krap instead of krab, not a mistake you should be making after 1240 posts on a thai forum

It's suposed to sound like a piece of crap, not a crab that we eat.

You're getting really annoying with your repeated attempts to force your stupid transliterations of Thai on others. This forum is about the use of Thai language, not an endless argument over how to transliterate Thai into the Roman alphabet, which is ultimately an exercise in futility. Nobody cares how you transliterate Thai.

well said. Why is it bi-polar trolls have to patroll even the language thread.

Go troll the joke forum bear polar

care to explain whats trolling in telling someone who has 1200post on a thai forum that krap is pronounced krap and not Grub or Crab, its not just the transliteration, thats how they pronounce it in daily life.

Edited May 5, 201610 yr by bearpolar

Not at all sure that the RTGST was arrived at by "the finest minds in the Kingdom" - more likely some Thai jobsworths with degrees in "English" from Thai Universities.

I recommend looking at the history of the RTGS, starting with Wikipedia, and looking at the sources. Typographical problems have hit the system hard. The low point came in 1968 - but it may also be when the RTGS started to became successful.

The main problem is that when it was created, using double vowels to represent long vowels was not a popular scheme. There is the additional disincentive that in Thai it seems more natural to regard the long vowels as fundamental and to treat the short vowels as modifications of them. This is one of the peculiarities of Thai.

The main problem is that when it was created, using double vowels to represent long vowels was not a popular scheme. There is the additional disincentive that in Thai it seems more natural to regard the long vowels as fundamental and to treat the short vowels as modifications of them. This is one of the peculiarities of Thai.

I like this contribution very much. It explains a lot that I didn't understand.

Thank you very much

next time use krap instead of krab, not a mistake you should be making after 1240 posts on a thai forum

It's suposed to sound like a piece of crap, not a crab that we eat.

Well spotted old chap! Typo. I hate typing on these dam* phones.

next time use krap instead of krab, not a mistake you should be making after 1240 posts on a thai forum

It's suposed to sound like a piece of crap, not a crab that we eat.

You're getting really annoying with your repeated attempts to force your stupid transliterations of Thai on others. This forum is about the use of Thai language, not an endless argument over how to transliterate Thai into the Roman alphabet, which is ultimately an exercise in futility. Nobody cares how you transliterate Thai.

well said. Why is it bi-polar trolls have to patroll even the language thread.

Go troll the joke forum bear polar

care to explain whats trolling in telling someone who has 1200post on a thai forum that krap is pronounced krap and not Grub or Crab, its not just the transliteration, thats how they pronounce it in daily life.

Knock it off already! Like I've posted already, it was a bleeding typo - nothing more. Get over it and move on.

I hate typing on these phones.

its a common mistake by expats and that the "b" is nowhere near any of the other letters on the keyboard..

House special best translates to เมนูแนนำ (menu nae nam), so just make your appropriate statement with that.

Excuse me, but shouldn't that then be เมนู​แนะนำ?

Of course, my spelling is bad

I can't quote post number 56 , consider this:

ครับ is correctly represented by 'crab'. Closing consonants บปพภฟ are all executed by bringing the lips together without making a sound which is both transliterated and phonetically represented correctly by บ in the case of ครับ.

Well pointed out.

บ - the consanant baw bai mai (B sound)

It always trips up beginners who assume the letter baw bai mai must be a P sound, since thats the way it sounds when spoken in krap.

I guess it could be argued that the ending sound of krap might be more like พ (por paan) พอ พาน, ( P sound)

That, and the other certain constants you pointed out, that change when they are at the ending of certain words, i guess you could describe as an anomaly.

But for sure, you can identify straight away un-schooled learners that dont know the basic fundamentals.

When they get on here, lecturing members who are native speakers, tripping up others English spelling of Thai,

insinuating that others have gone to a sh*t school etc etc

it really does get funny.

I guess it adds value to thread. You can often learn knew stuff and have a laugh at the know-alls.

so now every thai on the face of the earth is wrong

the royal thai general system is wrong

thai-language.com is wrong

paiboon is wrong

All of them agree, its Krap/Khrap

บ is a P ending sound, very simple.

Edited May 6, 201610 yr by bearpolar

Beginning pronunciation of a letter is not the same as in the ending.

Editing is a great thing lol

Edited May 6, 201610 yr by bamukloy

The main problem is that when it was created, using double vowels to represent long vowels was not a popular scheme.

I'd be fascinated if you could elucidate. The mighty Mary Haas started using a colon to represent long vowels (e.g. /a:/, as in her dictionary). However, she later changed to doubling the vowels (/aa/). When and why did doubling vowels to indicate length become popular?

Well pointed out.

บ - the consanant baw bai mai (B sound)

It always trips up beginners who assume the letter baw bai mai must be a P sound, since thats the way it sounds when spoken in krap.

I guess it could be argued that the ending sound of krap might be more like พ (por paan) พอ พาน, ( P sound)

That, and the other certain constants you pointed out, that change when they are at the ending of certain words, i guess you could describe as an anomaly.

But for sure, you can identify straight away un-schooled learners that dont know the basic fundamentals.

When they get on here, lecturing members who are native speakers, tripping up others English spelling of Thai,

insinuating that others have gone to a sh*t school etc etc

it really does get funny.

I guess it adds value to thread. You can often learn knew stuff and have a laugh at the know-alls.

Care to explain how you came to the conclusion that บ is a b sound when its used as an ending consonant? Im really curious to see how you would know better than the rest of the country.

You seem to have it in for me but as of yet, in every post you've made, in every threat you've posted you have been completely wrong. Even now you misunderstood the post above yours from tgeezer.

instead of being passive aggressive and looking for trouble, maybe look over beginners information first?

even the royal system that i dislike would have shown you the correct usage of the letter: Royal Thai General System : khrap

Edited May 6, 201610 yr by bearpolar

Are people missing my point? The closing consonants p,b if they are what you use to represent บ ป etc. sound exactly the same because no sound is made, you just put your lips together. As an aid-memoir for spelling some people may find it useful to transliterate ครับ >crab, บาป > bap but the ending sound is the same in both cases.

There is a clear distinction between ending with b and p.

try pronouncing bob with a p

บอบ would be bop, very different from the word bob

Edited May 6, 201610 yr by bearpolar

There is a clear distinction between ending with b and p.

try pronouncing bob with a p

บอบ would be bop, very different from the word bob

Yes, in English. But the topic here is Thai.

There is a clear distinction between ending with b and p.

try pronouncing bob with a p

Surely the point is that one doesn't try pronouncing b or p, only ...บ and ...ป and as you probably well know they belong in the same group, แม่กบ so why would they sound differently. This is all very new to me, can you substantiate it?

I used to know this English - working class hero

His name was Robert.

But he really hated to be called Robert, he was "Bob"

He bought a giant tattoo on his arm It says"รบ".

Of course, the Thais says rob

He made a fool pf himself

witch, in this case. I like.

There is a clear distinction between ending with b and p.

try pronouncing bob with a p

Surely the point is that one doesn't try pronouncing b or p, only ...บ and ...ป and as you probably well know they belong in the same group, แม่กบ so why would they sound differently. This is all very new to me, can you substantiate it?

they all sound the same as ending consonents.

just like จับ is jap not jab, 2 very distinct pronounciation.

Jap sounds like japanese and jab sounds like a jab in boxing

บ is the same as ผ พ ภ ฟ all P sound when ending consonant

Edited May 6, 201610 yr by bearpolar

There is a clear distinction between ending with b and p.

try pronouncing bob with a p

Surely the point is that one doesn't try pronouncing b or p, only ...บ and ...ป and as you probably well know they belong in the same group, แม่กบ so why would they sound differently. This is all very new to me, can you substantiate it?

they all sound the same as ending consonents.

just like จับ is jap not jab, 2 very distinct pronounciation.

Jap sounds like japanese and jab sounds like a jab in boxing

บ is the same as ผ พ ภ ฟ all P sound when ending consonant

You're funny, I am sure everyone is confused now. Naturally jap is different from jab but that is English and possibly Sanskrit, Thais learning English need to learn to finish with a little vowel and we have to learn not to!

I used to know this English - working class hero

His name was Robert.

But he really hated to be called Robert, he was "Bob"

He bought a giant tattoo on his arm It says"รบ".

Of course, the Thais says rob

He made a fool pf himself

witch, in this case. I like.

This could work as an illustration to why you should preview before posting.

The tattoo says rob, but Thais pronounce it rop.

the tatoo would only say rob if it was รบ์ which is something bamukloy should of known before spamming his hatred filled with invalid information.

That, and the other certain constants you pointed out, that change when they are at the ending of certain words, i guess you could describe as an anomaly.

Without getting too retentive, but no anomaly, just a very simple and not that uncommon phonetic rule where final consonants in Thai lose voicing so a voiced consonant /b/ becomes its unvoiced counterpart /p/, and /d/ becomes /t/, and short vowels end with the always mysterious glottal stop

Learning Thai becomes much easier learning even a little bit of introductory linguistics, especially with regards to the phonetics.

Unvoiced, that is the word I was looking for I suppose, no little vowel so neither b nor p.

About the most useful comment I've found on Thai final stops is that they aren't the same as the initial ones or English ones (though I must say the final glottal stop sounds very like the Estuarine final <t>).

If one thinks of initial Thai stops as being lenis ('soft' e.g. บ), fortis ('hard' e.g. ป) and aspirated (e.g. ผ), then the final stops come out as lenis, and so one may feel tempted to describe them as /b/. This is Mary Haas's view.

If one goes by when voicing starts, so voiced (e.g. บ), voiceless (e.g. ป) and aspirated (e.g. ผ), then the final stops cone out as voiceles, so one will describe them as /p/. This is the usual view, and I've seen it argued by Abramson. He did however notice, when listening carefully to his recordings, that they could be voiced before voiced stops.

Another approach is to simply to say that there is only one type of final stop for each position, so the labial stop will be written as /p/, regardless of its phonetic details.

Excellent elementary of interpretation of some of the Thai language reading complexity structure.

Unvoiced, that is the word I was looking for I suppose, no little vowel so neither b nor p.

The technical word you're looking for is 'unexploded', and there's even a phonetic symbol, so the more detailed phonetic transcriptions of Thai will have p̚ etc. at the end of words. I find that little diacritic quite distracting.

so an aspirated p

i wonder why bamukloy isnt posting anymore, he was so adamant that there was a regular b sound at the end of the words that finish with บ

so an aspirated p

What are you referring to? If you are referring to p̚, I am talkinɡ at the level of professionalism where an aspirated p would be written pʰ (or ʰp if it were pre-aspirated). If I had meant as 'aspirated p', I would have shown the aspiration. I presume ʰp̚ is possible. Actually, what we get in Thai is rather ʔp̚ or ʔ͜p̚.

Edited May 8, 201610 yr by Richard W

i wonder why bamukloy isnt posting anymore, he was so adamant that there was a regular b sound at the end of the words that finish with บ

The choice of final consonants in Thai is complicated by the fact that the letters ป and ต were probably created after people had started writing Thai. However, Written Tibetan has the same strange phenomenon. What appear to have been final [p̚ t̚ k̚] since the invention of Tibetan writing are normally written usinɡ the letters for what were once initial . I think the choice of letter in Tibetan is indicating a fortis/lenis distinction, rather than a voicing distinction. It's not at all what is going on in Thai; it may be as simple as just continuing to use the simplest appropriate letter.