Settlement in UK with Thai wife and child

[thairat]

I am presently living in Thailand and wish to settle in the UK

• I have a British passport since childhood, but never worked in the UK
• Ms degree from university in US
• I have a Thai wife with ms degree (thesis written in English) from Thamassart Univ. in Bangkok
• Married by Thai ceremony only about 7 years ago and know each other for an additional 3 years
• We have a child in primary school who was born in Thailand who has a British passport.
• I have relatives in the UK
• I receive no pension but have liquid assets to support living in UK for several years.
• I am about 60 years old.

It appears the are multiple hoops to jump, but is settlement for me and my family a viable option? If so where to start!

What about this website is it relevant, I've seen no reference to it here yet, but a lot of to sift through and I'm sure some is outdated. http://www.naric.org.uk/visas%20and%20nationality/how%20to%20apply.aspx

So far:

• I've downloaded financial requirements forms via links on this website, this appears to be no problem.
• I'm reviewing the information and relevant definitions to understand the requirements.

***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Issues:

My own eligibility for settlement

<65 years old

never worked in UK

British passport born in UK

appears enough money per Annex FM Section FM 1.7: Financial Requirement

My child

primary international school age

British passport

My Thai wife

fluent in written and spoken English

ms degree (English thesis) option Thamassart University Bangkok

Thai ceremonial wedding > 6 years ago known each other for more than 10 years

Questions:

• Is my age a problem?, I'm under 65, 65 seems a cut-off for some requirements.
• I suppose the question I'm asking is what would be the most straight forward approach to settlement, give these specifics?

Appreciate any assistance. Kind regards

[stoneyboy]

I'm afraid I can't assist with the settlement visa for a Thai national.

But a UK passport holder as long as it states you are a British citizen has right of abode in the UK simple as that.

So for you and your child it is/should be a formality.

Good luck either way.

[thairat]

Great, Right of Abode in two passports , now of the more difficult issue!

Regards! ;-)

I'm afraid I can't assist with the settlement visa for a Thai national.

But a UK passport holder as long as it states you are a British citizen has right of abode in the UK simple as that.

So for you and your child it is/should be a formality.

Good luck either way.

[norfolkandchance]

• How old. 60 or 65

[thairat]

I am 62 years old.

• How old. 60 or 65

[thairat]

Does this make a difference? If so what is the critical age related to the question of settlement.

I am 62 years old.

• How old. 60 or 65

[TCA]

Your age has nothing to do with it. As was said above, for British passport holders there is no issue. Doesn't look like there would be any issues with your wife either. She'd require a TB test and may or may not be exempt from the English language requirement by way of her degree. If not exempt, by the sounds of it it'll be easy for her to pass a test anyway. The financial requirement via the cash savings route is £62,500 which must have been under your control for the previous six months. Is your marriage registered at an amphur? If so, I can't see any problems.

[thairat]

If I accept that right of abode is merely a formality for myself and my child, what avenue would be easier for my wife.

Should I first move the the UK with my child, and then work to get my wife in, or try to enter the UK as a family?

Any guidance here appreciated, while I have family in the UK, I dont have either parents or grandparents there, so family limited to cousins et al.

Family visa options

https://www.gov.uk/browse/visas-immigration/family-visas

list:

1. Apply to join family living permanently in the UK
2. Apply to remain in the UK with family
3. Apply to settle in the UK if your partner dies

Option 1 may apply but depends on definition of settled.

Eligibility states to join family living permanently in the UK

Your family member can:

• be a British citizen
• have settled in the UK

If my son and I go, take up residence, does this meet definition of settled permanently, somehow I doubt it.

If as a family is not an option, what might be another option?

Still reviewing.....

[thairat]

Your age has nothing to do with it. As was said above, for British passport holders there is no issue. Doesn't look like there would be any issues with your wife either. She'd require a TB test and may or may not be exempt from the English language requirement by way of her degree. If not exempt, by the sounds of it it'll be easy for her to pass a test anyway. The financial requirement via the cash savings route is £62,500 which must have been under your control for the previous six months. Is your marriage registered at an amphur? If so, I can't see any problems.

Unfortunately our marriage was ceremonial and never registered at an amphur. If not registered what tack to get by this requirement. We have friends in Thailand that have known us for years, my parents attended ceremonial marriage. I should think as our child is older than 7 years old and has both names on birth certificate we should be able to demonstrate the age of our relationship.

Thank you so much for your reply.

So many angles to look at this problem! ;-/

[TCA]

If the marriage isn't registered, I believe the onus of proof is more strict as you're effectively unmarried partners. The fact that you have a child together might not count for as much as you think. UKVI would also want to see proof of an ongoing relationship in terms of cohabitation etc....which could be jointly owned property, joint rental contract, bills showing you both live at the same address, etc... They'd want to see proof that you've been together for 2 years. Legally married couples would have less to prove in this respect.

I should add these are only my opinions based on my own experiences in the last few years.

Family of a settled person is the correct visa. As a British citizen, you are deemed settled. You will however have to show you have an adequate place to live in the UK, but as far as I know there is no requirement for you to actually be in the UK before your wife applies.

[thairat]

I see the TB test must be booked and performed here, in Bangkok

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tuberculosis-test-for-a-uk-visa-clinics-in-thailand/tuberculosis-testing-in-thailand

There are different tests for determining TB, does anyone know which test the UK uses and how long to wait for results, tests in Europe (Xpert MTB/RIF) may take 2 hours, but not approved for use in US. Routine skin tests read, 48-72 hours after injection.

Thank you

Your age has nothing to do with it. As was said above, for British passport holders there is no issue. Doesn't look like there would be any issues with your wife either. She'd require a TB test and may or may not be exempt from the English language requirement by way of her degree. If not exempt, by the sounds of it it'll be easy for her to pass a test anyway. The financial requirement via the cash savings route is £62,500 which must have been under your control for the previous six months. Is your marriage registered at an amphur? If so, I can't see any problems.

Unfortunately our marriage was ceremonial and never registered at an amphur. If not registered what tack to get by this requirement. We have friends in Thailand that have known us for years, my parents attended ceremonial marriage. I should think as our child is older than 7 years old and has both names on birth certificate we should be able to demonstrate the age of our relationship.

Thank you so much for your reply.

So many angles to look at this problem! ;-/

[thairat]

Indeed joint contracts is difficult one, as most things were simpler if they were in my wifes Thai name rather than mine. Could international school records be used? We dont have any communication from them addressed to both of us but certainly they know who we are and where we have lived for years.

Do contract/accounts have to include both names on same document or can separate names mine or my wife's having the same address suffice. I'm struggling a bit here, trying to think of documentation. We do have one joint account, so we certainly have on reference.

More digging required...

Thank you for your assistance.

[TCA]

My wife took the first appointment on a particular day and had results and certificate within a couple of hours. The appointment is at the IOM office but you take paperwork from there to a nearby hospital and this is where there's more waiting time, so the earlier you're there in the day the better. The applicant takes the results back to IOM who then finalise the paperwork pretty quickly.

[TCA]

Items with both your names on is ideal but separate items in your individual names at the same address (dated around the same time if possible) is almost as good and better than nothing. Dated photos, flight tickets, hotel bookings and any stuff like that with both your names on also helps to build the picture for the entry clearance officer making the decision. Although you wouldn't want to overload the ECO with masses of photos.

Again, just my opinion.

Edited May 2, 2016 by TCA

[thairat]

Thank you, that's great to know!

My wife took the first appointment on a particular day and had results and certificate within a couple of hours. The appointment is at the IOM office but you take paperwork from there to a nearby hospital and this is where there's more waiting time, so the earlier you're there in the day the better. The applicant takes the results back to IOM who then finalise the paperwork pretty quickly.

[thairat]

Boarding passes and ticket flight itineraries great idea!

I agree nobody likes to look at family vacation photos!

Wonderful....

Items with both your names on is ideal but separate items in your individual names at the same address (dated around the same time if possible) is almost as good and better than nothing. Dated photos, flight tickets, hotel bookings and any stuff like that with both your names on also helps to build the picture for the entry clearance officer making the decision. Although you wouldn't want to overload the ECO with masses of photos.

Again, just my opinion.

[Maestro]

What exactly do you mean with "married by Thai ceremony" and "Thai ceremonial wedding?" Unless you have a marriage certificate issues by a district office you are not married and the person to whom you refer as your wife is in fact nor your wife for the purpose of a visa application.

[Paul Phuket]

What exactly do you mean with "married by Thai ceremony" and "Thai ceremonial wedding?" Unless you have a marriage certificate issues by a district office you are not married and the person to whom you refer as your wife is in fact nor your wife for the purpose of a visa application.

Ceremony is just that a ceremony with monks etc in the local village or parents house etc... I did that as well but applied for a fiancée visa and then settled in UK and got married there legally. You have to do within the 6 month fiancée visa date. Easy enough at a registry office. Once married there apply for residence permit.

As others have said show a timeline of good evidence for your time together over the ten years if you can. Once married and settled apply for test life in UK etc not sure if there's anyway around that if your wife is qualified already but worth checking. Then you can apply for citizenship 2 years after she has been settled..then British passport.. Good luck enjoy the UK. I did all that and now back living and retired in Thailand!

[thairat]

Yes maestro of course you are correct, but does this mean that our long term relationship could not be considered a marriage if there was enough supporting evidence, so I need a fiance visa as proposed by Paul in Phuket? or can I opt to try either way?.

Is one way easier than the other?

Thank you Mastro and Phuket Paul for your input.

regards

What exactly do you mean with "married by Thai ceremony" and "Thai ceremonial wedding?" Unless you have a marriage certificate issues by a district office you are not married and the person to whom you refer as your wife is in fact nor your wife for the purpose of a visa application.

[hoffy66]

Indeed joint contracts is difficult one, as most things were simpler if they were in my wifes Thai name rather than mine. Could international school records be used? We dont have any communication from them addressed to both of us but certainly they know who we are and where we have lived for years.

Do contract/accounts have to include both names on same document or can separate names mine or my wife's having the same address suffice. I'm struggling a bit here, trying to think of documentation. We do have one joint account, so we certainly have on reference.

More digging required...

Thank you for your assistance.

Can you go to your head man in your area, and get him to ratafy your long standing relationship, also while i am at it, it may be a good idea to contact your embassy and ask some of these questions, lets face it, sooner or later you will need their help.

[TCA]

thairat

The fiancée visa lasts 6 months and in that time you have to marry in the UK. If you were going to get married, you'd be as we'll doing so in Thailand as with the fiancée visa you have to apply again for another settlement visa after 6 months and so double up on costs not to mention hassle.

I suggest you read the pinned thread below to clarify your options:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/524561-uk-settlement-visa-basics/

[thairat]

Thank you once again TCA, it has wall become clear.

It appears that according to

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/221327-thai-marriage-legal-in-the-uk/

any marriage registered in Thailand is recognized in the UK.

So no seasoning of the marriage required, married in Thailand is immediately recognized and honoured in the UK, so we could immediately apply for settlement as a spouse after completing legal marriage at Amphur in Thailand.

This is my understanding, from what I have read, is this correct?

thairat

The fiancée visa lasts 6 months and in that time you have to marry in the UK. If you were going to get married, you'd be as we'll doing so in Thailand as with the fiancée visa you have to apply again for another settlement visa after 6 months and so double up on costs not to mention hassle.

I suggest you read the pinned thread below to clarify your options:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/524561-uk-settlement-visa-basics/

[TCA]

Yes. Of course it's not quite as simple as just a visit to the amphur. Unless it's changed you need to get an affirmation of freedom to marry authorised at the UK embassy in Bangkok, duly translated into Thai and then notarised at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs prior to the amphur visit.

And then you'd need your marriage certificate translated into English for the UK visa application.

[sometimewoodworker]

Yes maestro of course you are correct, but does this mean that our long term relationship could not be considered a marriage if there was enough supporting evidence, so I need a fiance visa as proposed by Paul in Phuket? or can I opt to try either way?.

Is one way easier than the other?

Thank you Mastro and Phuket Paul for your input.

regards

What exactly do you mean with "married by Thai ceremony" and "Thai ceremonial wedding?" Unless you have a marriage certificate issues by a district office you are not married and the person to whom you refer as your wife is in fact nor your wife for the purpose of a visa application.

However you consider your relationship, and however much supporting evidence you have, you are not married. So your only option is for a fiancé visa.

The evidence of the relationship will probably help support the visa request.

It would probably not be helpful to get legally married in Thailand now, and could even make getting any visa much more difficult, if not impossible, as it could be seen as not genuine.

[bobrussell]

This is a pretty straightforward one!

British passport holders, no problems. Age is completely irrelevant unless any party is underage!! No age cut offs in any way.

if you can show that you have been living in a relationship akin to marriage then it is a standard spouse settlement visa that is needed. Will need TB certificate, must meet the financial requirements as standard. The 'spouse' visa covers a spouse, civil partner, unmarried or same sex partner! Clearly it is easier to prove the relationship if you have a marriage or comparable certificate.

If the degree was taught in English or researched in English then it is likely the requirements are met:

https://www.gov.uk/english-language/degrees-in-english

Standard fee plus NHS charge will apply. First visa applied for in Thailand, FLR applied for in the UK then after 5 years indefinite leave to remain having passed the Life in the UK test.

Best place to start is the pinned topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/524561-uk-settlement-visa-basics/

Edit: There is no reason whatsoever to marry if you can demonstrate that you have been in a relationship akin to marriage. It makes no difference to the application.

If you decide this is the time to marry then you can chose to do it in Thailand. In this case wait until you have the proper paperwork!

Edited May 3, 2016 by bobrussell

[eastendanto]

Not quite your age or circumstances, so my experience and things for you to consider are:-

1. Recently applied for my wife's second remain to stay visa (2.5 year duration) and besides the application fee for the visa, got hit for

£200.00 per year NHS fees (this was not applied for her first visa as no such rule existed)....so extra £500.00. This is not a settlement

visa which she will apply for after she has completed the 2.5 years from the recent application and meeting the terms of her original

application rules, though as highlighted earlier the government can change those rules at their behest re the NHS charges.

2. It can be a bit of a minefield knowing which visa to apply for and what information to provide can be a bit overwhelming..... remember this is

a tick box exercise and as long as all the boxes are ticked then visa should get granted. I would suggest in the first instance that may be

you schedule a talk to a reputable Visa Lawyer or 2 with experience and more importantly good track record in this type of service for a 30

minute "freebie" discussion about the your wife's circumstances. They should be able to point you in the right direction as they basically

want your business at the end of the day. However if after talking with a Lawyer you want to pursue yourself, then they have given you the

info you require to move forward.

Good luck

[TCA]

It would probably not be helpful to get legally married in Thailand now, and could even make getting any visa much more difficult, if not impossible, as it could be seen as not genuine, no matter how recent.

I'd disagree with that. If the couple have been together 7-10 years and supply some proof of that, then it would be a pretty harsh conclusion that a marriage wasn't genuine, no matter how recent. My wife applied successfully in similar circumstances.

Edited May 3, 2016 by TCA

[bobrussell]

If you are engaged and planning to marry, there is a six month fiance visa which is still a settlement visa that allows a partner to come to the UK but they must marry within six months. At that stage you can apply for a spouse settlement visa. This is likely to work out more expensive as there is an additional visa fee involved!

Don't confuse this with a marriage visit visa which cannot be converted to a settlement visa in the UK.

Many people can complete the application without the involvement of an agent. It depends how confident you are at collecting paperwork together!

The OP has children and assuming the mother is the applicant, pretty much proves they have a relationship but still requires evidence that they are still living in a relationship akin to marriage. I doubt an ECO will take much persuading!

Edited May 3, 2016 by bobrussell

[thairat]

OK yes some smog has lifted but a new cloud just blew in!

For the sake of the spouse visa is my wife's name change to my surname mandatory, if so this would mean her Thai national identity card must change followed by her passport! Time is a critical factor as we would like our child's education to not be disrupted. We don't care about the name change as our relationship the same, but understand our wants irrelevant in bureaucracy.

After further thought, it looks like the name change while maybe not mandatory would simplify things in the UK.

My understanding recent changes in Thai law make it so that a name change is no longer required.

Yes. Of course it's not quite as simple as just a visit to the amphur. Unless it's changed you need to get an affirmation of freedom to marry authorised at the UK embassy in Bangkok, duly translated into Thai and then notarised at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs prior to the amphur visit.

And then you'd need your marriage certificate translated into English for the UK visa application.

Edited May 3, 2016 by thairat

[TCA]

Your wife can keep her own name for the visa application. My wife did exactly that for the simple reason there was enough to get done with the visa application without messing about with new I.D cards and new passports. Your wife can choose to start using your surname in the UK if she so wishes.

Edited May 3, 2016 by TCA