Happy Margaret Thatcher Day everyone!

[emilymat]

Yup she stood up to fascist bullies, the EU and undemocratically called strikes- and people re elected her twice.

So also was Tony Blair (re-elected twice). Look at the 'stick' he gets, often from people who were in their nappies when he was PM. Just trying to provide balance.

My biggest dislike of Mrs Thatcher was because I really worked hard for 25 years to try and improve peoples lives and all she could do was to refer to me as 'the enemy within'. I remember having a number of meetings with Geoffrey Howe (a real one-nation conservative) and it became clear to me that what his thoughts were, long before he made his astonishing speech in parliament that finally brought her down.

I also read an authoritative book on Mrs Thatcher where it was indicated she made no secret of marrying for money, in order to pursue her political career with financial security. That's fair enough I suppose.

Remember Churchill?. Our greatest PM to many. He was turfed out of office at his moment of greatest glory by someone he referred too as ' a modest man, with much to be modest about'.

Funny thing, politics and perceptions.

[dageurreotype]

Margaret Thatcher best prime minister since Winston Churchill.

Did you ever use the NHS?

Winston Churchill campaigned against it, and declared that a Gestapo-type police force would be necessary to enact this and other benefits brought in by the Attlee government, who were triumphantly elected when Churchill was kicked out in the 1945 General Election.

“No Socialist Government conducting the entire life and industry of the country could afford to allow free, sharp, or violently-worded expressions of public discontent. They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance." Winston Churchill, 4th June 1945

He was good in war, bad in peace.

Thatcher was just bad, though a war saved her from being one of the most unpopular Prime Ministers of the 20th century.

She turned my country from a place where people felt a sense of community and interdependence, and duty to help each other into a dog-eat-dog free for all , where selfish accumulation became somehow the accepted norm.

"There is no society, just individuals and families" was one of her favourite sayings.

I hated her actually, and for once that isn't exaggeration.

I well remember those preferring NOT to drop money in the 'donations for our soldiers, haha) being roundly chastised, nay booed! in my local pub. Says more about the sheep who automatically respond to that which is lead by mainstream media than the population of ANY country. Look at the US now. If the internet were more utilised then, things may have been different. Bloodthirsty cow. Same $hillary.

[IMA_FARANG]

the iron bottom bitch is dead.

May she and all her decendants rightly rot in hell for a thousamd years.

Did she relly take daily doses of Male hormones, as i once was told?

i was told that when she was out of power, one opposition member was asked hoe he felt about her leaving.

His response was,"I fell like the Munchkins....dancing around and singing a song....

Ding Dong, the Witch id desd,

Which old Witch, the Wicked Witch is dead.

Edited May 7, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[dageurreotype]

wonderful prime minister wrongly accused of many things such as the destruction of the mining industry when labour closed down 20x the amount of pits and the decimation of manufacturing when one of her first acts as PM was to bale out British Leyland with tax payers money. The right to buy enriched millions of working class people and did more for them than 'socialism' ever did, she was even right on the poll tax. Betrayed by gutless blokes in the end. God bless her.

Enriched - Are we talking here about the millions who have to rely on foodbanks, national minimum wages and minimum hours contracts to get by? The thatcher government and all its followers have done little else other than decimate British industry, with the thought that finance will sort everything out eventually. Unfortunately, the taxpayer eventually had to bale finance out. And almost ten years on the banks are acting as if it never happened.

Where is the competence in any of that? The Thatcher Revolution has produced a system that is probably going to end up being even more disastrous than Russian Communism.

Ah jesus. If you haven't worked it out yet, thai3's a troll. Amazing how some get their jollies. Speaking of which, where did English John go? miss him ..

[i claudius]

Margaret Thatcher best prime minister since Winston Churchill.

That just about sums you up.

Yes it does ,sounds like a good guy

[i claudius]

I love the Looney left on here that blame Thatcher for e everything, really gives me a laugh,they conveniently forget that Blair and the "working man's"labour party fought tooth and nail right up to the court of "uman rights" to make sure us pensioners living abroad did not get our yearly rises

[thaiduncankk]

As she was involved in the Hillsborough cover up, I don't think any of the relatives of the 96 share your sentiment.

Ding Dong the witch is DEAD.

Surely you mean "one of the Hillsborough cover ups"?

I mean, there was more than one. The cops lied to try to avoid blame, and the dead were lied about, but we've all lied to ourselves about the behaviour of the fans. Liverpool had a massive number of thugs among the support in the 80's and honest Liverpool fans will admit the reality of the behaviour.

I'll bet fans are misdirected by stewards and police somewhere in the world every single week, and probably every day. It takes bouncing drunken defiance and aggression to produce a tragedy. When ordinary Liverpool fans can't wear scarves on the way to the ground for fear of being filled in by "Scallies" for their tickets we have to admit that there's a problem. The cops didn't open the gate at Hillsborough for no reason.

Were you there ? I was.

Do yourself a favour, if you get time, read the newspapers that have the reports on the recent inquiry, that a jury proved that the gate was WRONGFULLY opened, statements were altered to shift any blame from police, ambulance personnel and stewards, and that the whole thing was a pack of lies that Thatcher and numerous following Prime Ministers were aware of.

Justice for the 96.

[ev1lchris]

She was a goat.

[thaiduncankk]

Margaret Thatcher best prime minister since Winston Churchill.

That just about sums you up.

Yes it does ,sounds like a good guy

You obviously do not know him personally.

[colinneil]

Margaret Thatcher best prime minister since Winston Churchill.

That just about sums you up.

Yes it does ,sounds like a good guy

You obviously do not know him personally.

You do not realise Thailand has very strong defamation laws.

[RabC]

As she was involved in the Hillsborough cover up, I don't think any of the relatives of the 96 share your sentiment.

Ding Dong the witch is DEAD.

Surely you mean "one of the Hillsborough cover ups"?

I mean, there was more than one. The cops lied to try to avoid blame, and the dead were lied about, but we've all lied to ourselves about the behaviour of the fans. Liverpool had a massive number of thugs among the support in the 80's and honest Liverpool fans will admit the reality of the behaviour.

I'll bet fans are misdirected by stewards and police somewhere in the world every single week, and probably every day. It takes bouncing drunken defiance and aggression to produce a tragedy. When ordinary Liverpool fans can't wear scarves on the way to the ground for fear of being filled in by "Scallies" for their tickets we have to admit that there's a problem. The cops didn't open the gate at Hillsborough for no reason.

Were you there ? I was.

Do yourself a favour, if you get time, read the newspapers that have the reports on the recent inquiry, that a jury proved that the gate was WRONGFULLY opened, statements were altered to shift any blame from police, ambulance personnel and stewards, and that the whole thing was a pack of lies that Thatcher and numerous following Prime Ministers were aware of.

Justice for the 96.

Scousers, second only to the Irish in Grief Whoring

[thaiduncankk]

As she was involved in the Hillsborough cover up, I don't think any of the relatives of the 96 share your sentiment.

Ding Dong the witch is DEAD.

Surely you mean "one of the Hillsborough cover ups"?

I mean, there was more than one. The cops lied to try to avoid blame, and the dead were lied about, but we've all lied to ourselves about the behaviour of the fans. Liverpool had a massive number of thugs among the support in the 80's and honest Liverpool fans will admit the reality of the behaviour.

I'll bet fans are misdirected by stewards and police somewhere in the world every single week, and probably every day. It takes bouncing drunken defiance and aggression to produce a tragedy. When ordinary Liverpool fans can't wear scarves on the way to the ground for fear of being filled in by "Scallies" for their tickets we have to admit that there's a problem. The cops didn't open the gate at Hillsborough for no reason.

Were you there ? I was.

Do yourself a favour, if you get time, read the newspapers that have the reports on the recent inquiry, that a jury proved that the gate was WRONGFULLY opened, statements were altered to shift any blame from police, ambulance personnel and stewards, and that the whole thing was a pack of lies that Thatcher and numerous following Prime Ministers were aware of.

Justice for the 96.

Scousers, second only to the Irish in Grief Whoring

I take it you are a 'sweaty' ?

[Craig krup]

Were you there ? I was.

Do yourself a favour, if you get time, read the newspapers that have the reports on the recent inquiry, that a jury proved that the gate was WRONGFULLY opened, statements were altered to shift any blame from police, ambulance personnel and stewards, and that the whole thing was a pack of lies that Thatcher and numerous following Prime Ministers were aware of.

Justice for the 96.

No. At the risk of being picky:

1) Given what we now know a reasonable person might well think that it would have been better if the gate hadn't been opened. But then, if a riot had resulted and the cops had knocked hell out of ten people to avoid 15 deaths they could never have proved that knocking hell out of the ten saved the 15 any more than they could have proved that failing to open the gate saved 96. It's like the Rwandan massacre. If the UN peacekeepers had shot 200 to save 800,000 they couldn't have proved that the 200 they killed was the price that had to be paid to save the 800,000. The 800,000 wouldn't have died and the inquiry would have blamed the soldiers for the "barbarous atrocity". You can't prove the counterfactual. You can't prove what would have happened had actions been different. And given that the public are thick - they'll blame you for acts but not omissions - there's always a tendency to not act. In desperate situations where all outcomes are bad an act which produces an outcome much less bad than another will see the person blamed because morons think that there's a causative link between the less-than-perfect outcome and the act. Doing nothing and producing a really terrible outcome doesn't get you blamed. Who blames Ed Miliband for the situation in Syria? He made concerted western action impossible, but nobody blames him and the Labour Party for what followed.

2) The jury are the arbiters of fact. They get to decide. But a jury convicted the Birmingham Six, the Guildford four and any number of other innocent people. It was the undemocratic non-jury appeal courts that reversed the decisions. A jury could say that I was Henry VIII but it wouldn't make it so. Question seven for the jury was, "Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?". They answered "No". Really??!! Really??!!!!!!!!!! Nobody but nobody did anything that even contributed? Yeah. Right.

To reiterate, the cops opened the gate under extreme duress. Watch the clip that shows the behaviour before the gate was opened.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

[Mexlark]

Yup, there's probably better ways to pass a Saturday evening than feed the troll. I hadn't really noticed because I have come to regard UK politics as a nature reserve for trolls anyway. So much so that is now completely obvious (to anyone not indoctrinated by reality TV) that the UK has never been even remotely democratic. We fool ourselves into believing the lie just to have something to comfort ourselves with for the loss of the empire. We continue to be ruled by a slaveowning mentality, much as we always have been.

wonderful prime minister wrongly accused of many things such as the destruction of the mining industry when labour closed down 20x the amount of pits and the decimation of manufacturing when one of her first acts as PM was to bale out British Leyland with tax payers money. The right to buy enriched millions of working class people and did more for them than 'socialism' ever did, she was even right on the poll tax. Betrayed by gutless blokes in the end. God bless her.

Enriched - Are we talking here about the millions who have to rely on foodbanks, national minimum wages and minimum hours contracts to get by? The thatcher government and all its followers have done little else other than decimate British industry, with the thought that finance will sort everything out eventually. Unfortunately, the taxpayer eventually had to bale finance out. And almost ten years on the banks are acting as if it never happened.

Where is the competence in any of that? The Thatcher Revolution has produced a system that is probably going to end up being even more disastrous than Russian Communism.

Ah jesus. If you haven't worked it out yet, thai3's a troll. Amazing how some get their jollies. Speaking of which, where did English John go? miss him ..

[thaiduncankk]

Were you there ? I was.

Do yourself a favour, if you get time, read the newspapers that have the reports on the recent inquiry, that a jury proved that the gate was WRONGFULLY opened, statements were altered to shift any blame from police, ambulance personnel and stewards, and that the whole thing was a pack of lies that Thatcher and numerous following Prime Ministers were aware of.

Justice for the 96.

No. At the risk of being picky:

1) Given what we now know a reasonable person might well think that it would have been better if the gate hadn't been opened. But then, if a riot had resulted and the cops had knocked hell out of ten people to avoid 15 deaths they could never have proved that knocking hell out of the ten saved the 15 any more than they could have proved that failing to open the gate saved 96. It's like the Rwandan massacre. If the UN peacekeepers had shot 200 to save 800,000 they couldn't have proved that the 200 they killed was the price that had to be paid to save the 800,000. The 800,000 wouldn't have died and the inquiry would have blamed the soldiers for the "barbarous atrocity". You can't prove the counterfactual. You can't prove what would have happened had actions been different. And given that the public are thick - they'll blame you for acts but not omissions - there's always a tendency to not act. In desperate situations where all outcomes are bad an act which produces an outcome much less bad than another will see the person blamed because morons think that there's a causative link between the less-than-perfect outcome and the act. Doing nothing and producing a really terrible outcome doesn't get you blamed. Who blames Ed Miliband for the situation in Syria? He made concerted western action impossible, but nobody blames him and the Labour Party for what followed.

2) The jury are the arbiters of fact. They get to decide. But a jury convicted the Birmingham Six, the Guildford four and any number of other innocent people. It was the undemocratic non-jury appeal courts that reversed the decisions. A jury could say that I was Henry VIII but it wouldn't make it so. Question seven for the jury was, "Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?". They answered "No". Really??!! Really??!!!!!!!!!! Nobody but nobody did anything that even contributed? Yeah. Right.

To reiterate, the cops opened the gate under extreme duress. Watch the clip that shows the behaviour before the gate was opened.

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

I am not going to argue with someone who wasn't even there.

Tomorrow evening, BBC 2, 9.00pm (3.00am Monday Thai time, presuming you live here) a 2 hour film/documentary called Hillsborough.

[geriatrickid]

These threads are always so depressing, as they are filled with extreme comments and a lack of fairness. Social progressives and "Greens" do not celebrate the death of the former PM Thatcher. Cranky Marxist Leninists, yes, but not those who have a social conscience. Not every liberal is without manners and respect for others.

Accusing Sir Winston of being an anti semite is just so bloody stupid and insulting. Taken within the context of the times, he was a decent fellow. He wasn't the one who set up concentration camps, nor did he collaborate and deport children to the ovens as the French and Belgians gleefully did. His government wasn't the one that supplied the nazis with steel as Sweden did. Nor did he profit from the war as the Italian and Swiss bankers did.

Baroness Thatcher had her faults, but her positive qualities outweighed them. The reality is that she brought back prosperity to the UK and restored the concept of opportunity and advancement through work and diligence. Despite the tragedy of the Falklands, the bloodshed resulted in a return to democracy in Argentina, and the protection of the rights of the Falkland islanders. Because of her tough decisions, it reestablished the UK as a country not to be stepped on by despots. It was her leadership that lifted the yoke of brutal oppression in eastern Europe. Today the Baltic states are free because of her courage and resolve. Of course she made some mistakes, but that does not make her evil. Many of the criticisms on this thread are but the spittle of elitist hypocrites. She was a working class girl who had worked her way up. I find it so odd that people who claim to have liberal views and bleat on about social justice see nothing wrong with the misogynistic insults thrown at the lady.

Some people need to get over the fact that prejudiced pricks like Ken Livingstone and his pandering malcontent pal Corbyn will never gain control over the country. Baroness Thatcher freed the working classes from the tyranny of bullying extremists who looked to the Soviet Union for guidance and pay, and that alone is worthy of respect.

[Kan Win]

and the good Lady gave us the working Expats abroad, Free from any UK Taxes as long as we did not stay in the UK for more than 90 days per year.

Well, I voted for her party in those days and left the UK in 79 never to look back, just a couple of weeks each year until 1988 and then that was it for me, haven't been back.

Win

[dageurreotype]

These threads are always so depressing, as they are filled with extreme comments and a lack of fairness. Social progressives and "Greens" do not celebrate the death of the former PM Thatcher. Cranky Marxist Leninists, yes, but not those who have a social conscience. Not every liberal is without manners and respect for others.

Accusing Sir Winston of being an anti semite is just so bloody stupid and insulting. Taken within the context of the times, he was a decent fellow. He wasn't the one who set up concentration camps, nor did he collaborate and deport children to the ovens as the French and Belgians gleefully did. His government wasn't the one that supplied the nazis with steel as Sweden did. Nor did he profit from the war as the Italian and Swiss bankers did.

Baroness Thatcher had her faults, but her positive qualities outweighed them. The reality is that she brought back prosperity to the UK and restored the concept of opportunity and advancement through work and diligence. Despite the tragedy of the Falklands, the bloodshed resulted in a return to democracy in Argentina, and the protection of the rights of the Falkland islanders. Because of her tough decisions, it reestablished the UK as a country not to be stepped on by despots. It was her leadership that lifted the yoke of brutal oppression in eastern Europe. Today the Baltic states are free because of her courage and resolve. Of course she made some mistakes, but that does not make her evil. Many of the criticisms on this thread are but the spittle of elitist hypocrites. She was a working class girl who had worked her way up. I find it so odd that people who claim to have liberal views and bleat on about social justice see nothing wrong with the misogynistic insults thrown at the lady.

Some people need to get over the fact that prejudiced pricks like Ken Livingstone and his pandering malcontent pal Corbyn will never gain control over the country. Baroness Thatcher freed the working classes from the tyranny of bullying extremists who looked to the Soviet Union for guidance and pay, and that alone is worthy of respect.

'tyranny of employment'. There. Fixed that for you.

You're not well are you?

[BigBadGeordie]

My favourite picture

[Craig krup]

I am not going to argue with someone who wasn't even there.

Tomorrow evening, BBC 2, 9.00pm (3.00am Monday Thai time, presuming you live here) a 2 hour film/documentary called Hillsborough.

Why on earth would being there be a qualification? 1) You'll be almost certainly part of a self-selected group whose testimony, even if honest, is likely to be suspect. 2) You won't have been able to see much - only your fragment - and the trauma of the events probably affected your perception.

I watched the documentary. We had a bloke admitting he'd been to that ground on an earlier occasion without a ticket who hoped that he'd (IIRC) "get in somehow...maybe pay at the turnstile". I was a football steward. There was a problem of fans trying to pay at all-ticket gates, or bent turnstile operators taking cash, or local turnstile operators being threatened, or people creating a scene with a crowd behind them, "I had a f****g ticket and f*****g dropped it, what do you want me to do? There's people behind. Right I'll f****g pay. I had a ticket but I'll f*****G pay again. I can't move back. Take it. Take it".

150 fans barged through the police gate when they opened it to let some kids out. A copper was screaming on the radio, and swearing, that they had to open the gate or people would be killed. The space, such as there was, that Motson identified on the commentary, would never have taken that influx if the part of the stadium that saw most of the fatalities had been closed off. I cannot for the life of me believe that anyone thinks the fans at Leppings Lane did absolutely nothing to contribute to the disaster.

Here's my question for the jury - "How can the decision to open the gate be the complete explanation of the deaths, if the well-founded fear of deaths from crushing outside the stadium was the reason for the gate being opened?"

Edited May 9, 2016 by Craig krup

[thaiduncankk]

I am not going to argue with someone who wasn't even there.

Tomorrow evening, BBC 2, 9.00pm (3.00am Monday Thai time, presuming you live here) a 2 hour film/documentary called Hillsborough.

Why on earth would being there be a qualification? 1) You'll be almost certainly part of a self-selected group whose testimony, even if honest, is likely to be suspect. 2) You won't have been able to see much - only your fragment - and the trauma of the events probably affected your perception.

I watched the documentary. We had a bloke admitting he'd been to that ground on an earlier occasion without a ticket who hoped that he'd (IIRC) "get in somehow...maybe pay at the turnstile". I was a football steward. There was a problem of fans trying to pay at all-ticket gates, or bent turnstile operators taking cash, or local turnstile operators being threatened, or people creating a scene with a crowd behind them, "I had a f****g ticket and f*****g dropped it, what do you want me to do? There's people behind. Right I'll f****g pay. I had a ticket but I'll f*****G pay again. I can't move back. Take it. Take it".

150 fans barged through the police gate when they opened it to let some kids out. A copper was screaming on the radio, and swearing, that they had to open the gate or people would be killed. The space, such as there was, that Motson identified on the commentary, would never have taken that influx if the part of the stadium that saw most of the fatalities had been closed off. I cannot for the life of me believe that anyone thinks the fans at Leppings Lane did absolutely nothing to contribute to the disaster.

Here's my question for the jury - "How can the decision to open the gate be the complete explanation of the deaths, if the well-founded fear of deaths from crushing outside the stadium was the reason for the gate being opened?"

It was proved that the ground was not up to scratch for the big game, Duckenfield (who thought Liverpool were playing 'Nottinghamshire' not Nottingham Forest) should never have been in charge, and most of all it was proved that the 96 were UNLAWFULLY killed.

The documentary has had tremendous praise from neutrals all around the world.

If you think I am going to waste time, arguing with an ill informed Jock, you must be joking.

Tara Sweaty.

[Mexlark]

Perhaps in another thirty years we will also be forced to endure trolls posting threads on Happy Donald Trump Day. Although hopefully Margaret's extremely hyped achievements (Boadicaea-style myths?) will be completely forgotten by then. Thank God no one really cares a shit about the completely failed Russian Revolution after a quarter decade. But as free market capitalism now has a complete hold on the globe, with no competing ideologies, when it inevitably does fail, it will be devastating because we will have burned all our bridges. And it is already declining. What next?

Happy Donald Trump Day!

[emilymat]

Perhaps in another thirty years we will also be forced to endure trolls posting threads on Happy Donald Trump Day. Although hopefully Margaret's extremely hyped achievements (Boadicaea-style myths?) will be completely forgotten by then. Thank God no one really cares a shit about the completely failed Russian Revolution after a quarter decade. But as free market capitalism now has a complete hold on the globe, with no competing ideologies, when it inevitably does fail, it will be devastating because we will have burned all our bridges. And it is already declining. What next?

Happy Donald Trump Day!

No sir! In thirty years time, providing the 'remian' camp win and there has been no wars in Europe, we can have David Cameron accolades, given his latest utterances in the EU debate.

[rgs2001uk]

[Craig krup]

It was proved that the ground was not up to scratch for the big game, Duckenfield (who thought Liverpool were playing 'Nottinghamshire' not Nottingham Forest) should never have been in charge, and most of all it was proved that the 96 were UNLAWFULLY killed.

The documentary has had tremendous praise from neutrals all around the world.

If you think I am going to waste time, arguing with an ill informed Jock, you must be joking.

Tara Sweaty.

If the ground was self-evidently one that could not host such a match how do we explain the fact that it had hosted many such matches before and those most experienced didn't see what was supposedly self-evident, to wit that it wasn't suitable?

Duckenfield made a decision, he wasn't as experienced as the person he replaced, and people assume that someone else would have made a different decision with different results. If he'd refused to open the gates despite the cops on the ground screaming for him to do so, and twenty had died in the crush outside, he'd have been blamed for that. He could never have proved that he'd thereby saved 76.

And then you conclude with racist and ethnocentric abuse, which - ironically - is exactly the kind of attitude that produces a mindless mob, and which resulted in the deaths of an awful lot of people at Hillsborough.

If Liverpudlians hadn't been smashing other Liverpudlians up against the gates and turnstiles outside the ground the issue of the gates, and Duckenfield's limitations, would never have arisen. There are a lot of Liverpudlians who need the cops to take all the blame because they can't face their own responsibility.

[jayboy]

Yup she stood up to fascist bullies

Good god, man, are you really so totally out of touch with reality? She was the fascist bully - fascist bully par excellence.

You seem to be rather out of touch with reality yourself.You might wish to educate yourself by reading Charles Moore's excellent biography, the first two volumes of which have been published.

Moore does not gloss over her faults but one is left in no doubt her achievements were very great.Still the whining of embittered left will no doubt continue.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^ her achievements, havent read Moore.

Wasnt this the same Iron Lady who knew about and covered up kiddie fiddlers?

The same woman who called Mandela a terrorist?

Mandela united a country, The Milk Snathcher tore one in two, its divisions are still felt to this day.

When will the South Yorkshire Police ever be held to account not only for Hillsborough, but their behaviour during the miners strike?

Never mind her "idiot bastard son" Blair pick up the torch and ran with it.

PS, not embittered left, UKIP man myself.

[Cockwomble]

Wow, 1st posted reply was a tough one.

But it was succintly put

I will celebrate her death, certainly not her election

[jayboy]

^^^ her achievements, havent read Moore.

Wasnt this the same Iron Lady who knew about and covered up kiddie fiddlers?

The same woman who called Mandela a terrorist?

Mandela united a country, The Milk Snathcher tore one in two, its divisions are still felt to this day.

When will the South Yorkshire Police ever be held to account not only for Hillsborough, but their behaviour during the miners strike?

Never mind her "idiot bastard son" Blair pick up the torch and ran with it.

PS, not embittered left, UKIP man myself.

A UKIP man.That explains much.

[Mexlark]

Whingeing must be one of the most common and natural things everywhere. However, whingeing is as whingeing does.

PS, not embittered left,

The communist bogeyman, as used to discredit anyone who murmurs even the slightest protest against the mythic heroes propagandised by the establishment as inside their pale of possible exploitation. The embitterment and arm-twisting is usually something that starts from and acts top-down. Margaret was actually her own worst enemy. Her corner-shop views on her homestreet's faithful servants and feckless trash are what always got her into trouble. (I was lucky to be born in a place where the local tories still actually had some belief in trying to carry the rest of society with them. Most of them had fought in the two world wars and had grown to respect their more lowly compatriots.) If you openly declare there is no such thing as society, you shouldn't be too surprised if you then become exposed to your unfellow man's baser instincts. You have either broken the bond of trust, or you have deliberately ensured that there is no trust possible. The former, I think, is the most pertinent. The UK bottom-rung were fine with the establishment as long as they contributed their minds and bodies to win world wars, but were then deliberately and conveniently demonised as useless extremists when it was found they could be replaced by much cheaper labor in the developing world.

And now we are getting to the situation in Thailand where that much cheaper labor is about to be replaced by millions of ground-down Chinese, who will almost certainly live long enough to find themselves made redundant by robots. Now a largely ''work''-free world (mustn't say society ;-) might be in some ways desirable IF there are mechanisms in place by which the redundant can make their own space and survive by their own efforts - but that space is never going to be put in place by the current set of rentiers with their endless naive obsession with seeing every human activity as a supposed market to be cornered. And most probably it will take a global catastrophe to bring them to their senses. But it now seems there are quite a few catastrophes that are highly likely. Indeed, the main reason we now have to endure such cheap & nasty populists as Donald Trump is because the US feels so very challenged in every corner of the globe. It would appear the Cold War hasn't exactly disappeared, and is likely to degenerate into a number of really rather hot wars which will further worsen global degradation. But forget all those bogeyman left-wing right-wing labels. Rather, China, Islam and Russia are where it's now at. But of course, all three of those do actually have some grounds for their whingeing.