Marriage

[Potter]

Why is is thai ladies want to get married quickly.

Is there any particular reason to why the family is "loses" face if we dont marry anytime soon?

PS: I know there are different status thais have in their society. How much does Status play importantance?

Thanks

Potter

[sbk]

At least among the Thai women I know, public promiscuity is frowned upon and if you are willing to enter into a serious relationship with someone than the assumption is that you are willing to also marry them.

Marriage is the norm, esp amongs rural people, even if you don't get legally married you are considered married if you are living together. Many people have big weddings but take years to get the legal license.

So, the simple answer is: because its expected.

[bluedragon]

Why is is thai ladies want to get married quickly.

Is there any particular reason to why the family is "loses" face if we dont marry anytime soon?

PS: I know there are different status thais have in their society. How much does Status play importantance?

Thanks

Potter

Potter: In Japan if your female and age 25, and not married yet, you are somewhat looked down upon. I suspect that in Thailand there is also some magic age that girls would like to be married by.

Regards, BD

[Mr Jones]

I hsve seen lots of posts on this subject I'm not TROLLING but can any of you ladies please tell me why anybody male/female would want to live/marry with someone they met 2 months ago

lez aged 62 going on 40, honest i'm not trolling

[dgoz]

At least among the Thai women I know, public promiscuity is frowned upon and if you are willing to enter into a serious relationship with someone than the assumption is that you are willing to also marry them.

Marriage is the norm, esp amongs rural people, even if you don't get legally married you are considered married if you are living together. Many people have big weddings but take years to get the legal license.

So, the simple answer is: because its expected.

I'd have to agree with sbk on this one.

I just got back from an eye-opening trip to Isaan.

I wanted to go to see my gf's farm and family.She was a little hesitant to go and now I know why.

By introducing me to the family and village it is pretty much expected that we will get married and her parents were grilling her about this for the whole weekend.They want to know when it's going to happen.She now can't take another guy back to her village,ever, or she will be considered a whore.If I knew this I wouldn't have gone.

I knew I was her first bf (at 24!)but I wasn't sure of the weirdness of their culture until I went there and seen for myself. Her bothers are 26,28 and a monk,32, neither of whom has ever had a gf! Most of the girls there haven't had a bf either at around the same age.

It is a draconian conservativeness.

They are extremely paranoid about reputations and what other people might think of them.

Her parents are very disappointed that she already has a bf at such a young age(24 is young?).I got a very frosty welcome to say the least and had to stay in a seperate house to them. Her father didnt talk to me or even acknowledge me for the entire time.

She is struggling with her own feelings for me and that of the wishes of her family.

[Sheryl]

Frosty reaction was probably because they suspect you of not intending to marry her; thus, from their point of view, by accompanying her to their village you are harming her and their reputation -- and limiting her future prospects.

Yes, there is much to object to in these norms but it's important to remember that no one person creates them, and people do have to live in their society. You really can't blame a family for wanting their daughter to have a "good" reputation since it may well determine her future.

The person all this is hardest one is the young woman. Please be sure that you are honest and clear with her as to your intentions, as she may have to pay a very large price for your relationship. If you are unlikely to marry her, be sure she knows this beyong a doubt.

It is not unusual in Thailand for a Thai girl to get involved with a farang fully expecting he will marry her, only to find out it's not the case and be left with not only a broken heart but a shattered reputation and little prospect of marraige to a Thai. Which is exactly why Thai families often disapprove of farang BFs. Unfortuanate but true.

[dgoz]

Frosty reaction was probably because they suspect you of not intending to marry her; thus, from their point of view, by accompanying her to their village you are harming her and their reputation -- and limiting her future prospects.

Yes, there is much to object to in these norms but it's important to remember that no one person creates them, and people do have to live in their society. You really can't blame a family for wanting their daughter to have a "good" reputation since it may well determine her future.

The person all this is hardest one is the young woman. Please be sure that you are honest and clear with her as to your intentions, as she may have to pay a very large price for your relationship. If you are unlikely to marry her, be sure she knows this beyong a doubt.

It is not unusual in Thailand for a Thai girl to get involved with a farang fully expecting he will marry her, only to find out it's not the case and be left with not only a broken heart but a shattered reputation and little prospect of marraige to a Thai. Which is exactly why Thai families often disapprove of farang BFs. Unfortuanate but true.

That's true.

I do have good intentions with this girl but it's a bit tough that you must get married just because you've been together.

How many ex-bf/gf's have we had that we are glad we didn't have to marry.

My original thinking was to meet her parents to put them at ease as to who I was because we have done some travelling together to other countries and may do so again. If I had a daughter who was travelling abroad with a guy I'd at least want to meet him and know who he was.

This was a mistake because this doesn't matter so much to them. As long as they have face and respect in their village that's all they're worried about.It seems to me that they're not that worried about their daughter.Only their "face".

I'm not saying their culture is better or worse. I am saying that it's very,very different.

So any Farangs thinking of dating your average Isaan girl beware of this.They are really going into the relationship for the long haul and if you go to their home you are really expected to do the same.

It is interesting though that once they get married(usually to their first gf/bf) that they seem to stay together.

Of course you can exclude your common garden variety bar girl from all this. In their case, knock yourself out lads.

[sbk]

I'd have to agree with sbk on this one.

never thought I'd see this in the forum

But its true, at least with Thai people who live a traditional rural lifestyle, it is sexually very conservative. Good girls don't and if you do, then you aren't a good girl. If a girl like this sleeps with you then she is doing so under the assumption that you will marry her.

As for the face issue, well, to be honest, I do think it has more to do with the girl's future prospects (or lack thereof) than any loss of face the family my suffer by her showing up with a farang. I think the girl loses far more face by showing up with, what is obviously a serious prospect in her eyes, only to be dumped later on. Many men (not saying this is fair, just the culture) will wonder what is wrong with her that he wouldn't marry her.

I've always felt it unfair, boys can be "jack the lad" and girls are ostracised for having more than one partner. I don't know what cities are like and I have to say it is changing (slowly) with the younger generation. That said, a 20 year old neighbor recently married his girlfriend of 2 years. I do believe he loves her but also believe that he married her because he was expected to.

[sparkle]

Why is is thai ladies want to get married quickly.

Is there any particular reason to why the family is "loses" face if we dont marry anytime soon?

PS: I know there are different status thais have in their society. How much does Status play importantance?

Thanks

Potter

Because in Thai culture the man is the provider and the wife the housekeeper (even though this is disproved by many many [Thai] couples where the wife earns money and hubby is busy sleeping and gambling). So every Thai woman dreams of a husband who provides for her and loves her (in that order). Hence the drive to marry.

[roguegirl]

This is a typical phenomena in Asia, I should say. Even in my home country, we have professionals (lawyers, doctors...) who dread coming home for family reunion to aunties and female relatives who would ask them question about when the big day is going to be.

In the olden days, a woman should be married before the age of 21. Nowadays, what with career, most women put off getting married that soon.

Seriously, among the more traditional ones, it is expected for a woman to marry in her early 20s. Not sure what the marriageable age is like in Thai though...

Another reason would be that we Asian don't treat living together very highly unless the couple is planning to marry.

Again, it is also due to the fact that, despite extra marital affairs, life still center around family institution.

Edited November 10, 2006 by roguegirl

[Potter]

Another reason would be that we Asian don't treat living together very highly unless the couple is planning to marry.

Please tell me more about this....

Thanks

Potter

[dgoz]

Living together before marriage is frowned upon because sex before marriage is frowned upon.

This is hard to believe if you've only been to Pattaya,Samuii,Phuket or Soi Cowboy on your trips to LOS but once you get away from this scene you'll see that the thinking regarding relationships is a bit old fashioned.

[Little Black Duck]

I'd have to agree with sbk on this one.

never thought I'd see this in the forum

But its true, at least with Thai people who live a traditional rural lifestyle, it is sexually very conservative. Good girls don't and if you do, then you aren't a good girl. If a girl like this sleeps with you then she is doing so under the assumption that you will marry her.

As for the face issue, well, to be honest, I do think it has more to do with the girl's future prospects (or lack thereof) than any loss of face the family my suffer by her showing up with a farang. I think the girl loses far more face by showing up with, what is obviously a serious prospect in her eyes, only to be dumped later on. Many men (not saying this is fair, just the culture) will wonder what is wrong with her that he wouldn't marry her.

I've always felt it unfair, boys can be "jack the lad" and girls are ostracised for having more than one partner. I don't know what cities are like and I have to say it is changing (slowly) with the younger generation. That said, a 20 year old neighbor recently married his girlfriend of 2 years. I do believe he loves her but also believe that he married her because he was expected to.

SBK, You seem to be very tuned in on most Thai Farang Relationships..The senario you correctly describe, would I be correct in assuning that this mostly applies to younger Thai ladies ??

I have entered into a relationship with a 37 year old Lady, in the beginning Papa ask if we were getting married BUT thats where it ended.. My Lady is quite happy with our relationship, I know she wants to get married but doesnt push it..No she has never been married and has no kids..

[sbk]

I'd say its more relaxed when they get older but it still applies.

Its important to remember that, in alot of people's eyes, if you are living together and are in a serious relationship that is quite similar to being married , then you are considered to be married.

My in laws didn't have a wedding, didn't get legally married until their oldest son was over 40 but everyone, including themselves, considered them to be husband and wife.

I think westerners get far too hung up on the labels and legalities and need to face the reality that a couple that lives together and are serious live a very similar life to those that are actually married. It is the same kind of relationship, just one is legal.

[Thaddeus]

My in laws didn't have a wedding, didn't get legally married until their oldest son was over 40 but everyone, including themselves, considered them to be husband and wife.

Likewise, my in-laws still aren't legally married after 40 years together, they had the village celebration... that was enough.

On and I had the traditional ceremony in February 2003 but didn't get to the Amphur until the December of the same year..... but we both regard Feb 21 as our Anniversary..... the Amphur is just regarded as a piece of paper by the locals.

[Little Black Duck]

My in laws didn't have a wedding, didn't get legally married until their oldest son was over 40 but everyone, including themselves, considered them to be husband and wife.

Likewise, my in-laws still aren't legally married after 40 years together, they had the village celebration... that was enough.

On and I had the traditional ceremony in February 2003 but didn't get to the Amphur until the December of the same year..... but we both regard Feb 21 as our Anniversary..... the Amphur is just regarded as a piece of paper by the locals.

Thank you both that has answered the question, I know they always refer to you as the Husband or wife but never knew it was of such little importance..So I take it I wont be ask again..

[sbk]

Oh, I wouldn't say it isn't of importance, it is. Just that the legal part isn't considered essential, the important part is the relationship.

[November Rain]

My Thai boyfriend of 3 years died in March. We had lived together for 2 years & in all the funeral proceedings, I was described as his wife. All of his friends seem to regard me as that, also. It's strangely comforting...

[Boo]

I am sorry to hear of your loss November rain, I hope you are coping with everything. And yes, after 3 years together & 2 years living as man & wife, you would be his wife in everything but paper.

[Thaddeus]

My sympathies too November rain .... outside of the work-a-day authorities, people here have more regard for people than for paper.

Sorry for your loss.

[Little Black Duck]

My Thai boyfriend of 3 years died in March. We had lived together for 2 years & in all the funeral proceedings, I was described as his wife. All of his friends seem to regard me as that, also. It's strangely comforting...

November Rain my deepest sympathys. I'm delighted you found comfort in being refered to as his wife..

[November Rain]

Thanks all for your condolences. I'm also looking after his little boy, now as a single mum. The little boy isn't mine, biologically, but he's lived with me since he was 2 and thinks I'm "mummy". I think that also helps. I found it good that none of my boyfriend's friends or even family ever considered taking littl'un away from me. Maybe related to the "wife" idea?

[kindgal]

I'm Thai woman, 26 yrs old. Dont married, but happy in my life. Becuase I havent met the right guy yet. So I dont married. So it depend on woman who met the right guy yet.

Nowsday, Thai women dont married quickly. Because they want to work and find the right guy.

I meant women who is work in the company.

[roguegirl]

Another reason would be that we Asian don't treat living together very highly unless the couple is planning to marry.

Please tell me more about this....

Thanks

Potter

As mentioned earlier, life in Asia is still very much about family institution (and also kinship)... old school way of thinking, if you must say it. Although many younger generations have taken a more liberal take on "living together" without proper marriage, these phenomena (marriage) is still the normal standard.

Among the natives of my homeland, particularly the East region, marriage is more traditional and based on custom. A marriage certificate was not taken seriously until late 80s. Nowadays, the marriage ceritificate normally come later or taken earlier before a marriage ceremony takes place. Although it can be signed on the wedding day itself.

Let's just say that it is very much a part of life/culture/tradition in this part of the world. It is about legalising the commitment and responsibility to one another. Being married legally and living together has very little difference IMHO.

The fear that I have once heard is when the man leaves without child support (supposing the relationship produces "results" after much babymaking ).

In big towns and cities, living together is rife although it is not made public...

Edited November 18, 2006 by roguegirl

[roguegirl]

Frosty reaction was probably because they suspect you of not intending to marry her; thus, from their point of view, by accompanying her to their village you are harming her and their reputation -- and limiting her future prospects.

Yes, there is much to object to in these norms but it's important to remember that no one person creates them, and people do have to live in their society. You really can't blame a family for wanting their daughter to have a "good" reputation since it may well determine her future.

The person all this is hardest one is the young woman. Please be sure that you are honest and clear with her as to your intentions, as she may have to pay a very large price for your relationship. If you are unlikely to marry her, be sure she knows this beyong a doubt.

It is not unusual in Thailand for a Thai girl to get involved with a farang fully expecting he will marry her, only to find out it's not the case and be left with not only a broken heart but a shattered reputation and little prospect of marraige to a Thai. Which is exactly why Thai families often disapprove of farang BFs. Unfortuanate but true.

It happens the same way from where I come from. In fact, it was somewhat a sore/annoyance to some expats working in my home country to date a local girl as they would be stared at.

One connotation is that a local girl going out with a Westerner would be seen as if they are whores for allowing themselves be a comfort woman to a Farang man who, later, once their work contract finishes, would just leave while the woman is left and grappled with the tag as a "Westerner's leftover" where she has hard time looking for a local husband.

In many cases, these women has no other obtion but have to find another Farang man to live with her and, hopefully, marry her.

In a region where in some parts where virginity is still "respected", a woman who keeps it until marriage is highly regarded although that notion is slowly dying nor does it an issue among the more educated and liberal. Why do you think a virgin girl is sold to the highest bidder in the flesh trade? A man still takes pride in deflowering a girl!

So the saying goes : a man wants to be a woman's first, a woman wants to a man's last.

[teacup]

One connotation is that a local girl going out with a Westerner would be seen as if they are whores for allowing themselves be a comfort woman to a Farang man who, later, once their work contract finishes, would just leave while the woman is left and grappled with the tag as a "Westerner's leftover" where she has hard time looking for a local husband.

I grew up in a thai traditional neighborhood in BKK, and that’s the exact reason why most girls (doesn’t matter how old she is) do not show off their farang bf close to home or do not even think about bringing the farang bf home to meet the parents until they both are ready or just about to get married.

People do gossip behind your back but never in front of you, and causing the family to loose face because we’re all going to the same temple, shopping at the same markets, etc. Just about everybody knows about everybody else life and business and in thailand gossips spread faster than the internet!

[rainx]

Frosty reaction was probably because they suspect you of not intending to marry her; thus, from their point of view, by accompanying her to their village you are harming her and their reputation -- and limiting her future prospects.

Yes, there is much to object to in these norms but it's important to remember that no one person creates them, and people do have to live in their society. You really can't blame a family for wanting their daughter to have a "good" reputation since it may well determine her future.

The person all this is hardest one is the young woman. Please be sure that you are honest and clear with her as to your intentions, as she may have to pay a very large price for your relationship. If you are unlikely to marry her, be sure she knows this beyong a doubt.

It is not unusual in Thailand for a Thai girl to get involved with a farang fully expecting he will marry her, only to find out it's not the case and be left with not only a broken heart but a shattered reputation and little prospect of marraige to a Thai. Which is exactly why Thai families often disapprove of farang BFs. Unfortuanate but true.

It happens the same way from where I come from. In fact, it was somewhat a sore/annoyance to some expats working in my home country to date a local girl as they would be stared at.

One connotation is that a local girl going out with a Westerner would be seen as if they are whores for allowing themselves be a comfort woman to a Farang man who, later, once their work contract finishes, would just leave while the woman is left and grappled with the tag as a "Westerner's leftover" where she has hard time looking for a local husband.

In many cases, these women has no other obtion but have to find another Farang man to live with her and, hopefully, marry her.

In a region where in some parts where virginity is still "respected", a woman who keeps it until marriage is highly regarded although that notion is slowly dying nor does it an issue among the more educated and liberal. Why do you think a virgin girl is sold to the highest bidder in the flesh trade? A man still takes pride in deflowering a girl!

So the saying goes : a man wants to be a woman's first, a woman wants to a man's last.

That’s more or less what my Thai female friends tell me, and I totally get it. I also heard that in Laos, an Asian woman in the company of a white man receives nasty remarks and stares in public. I think Asian women’s effort to avoid white men in order to maintain good reputation is not motivated by racism on their part. They know Western men are as kind (or unkind) as local men. They just figure dating a foreigner is more trouble than it is worth; if a woman dates a guy without the intention to get married, she is seen as a slut or a whore; if she intends to marry a guy, who happens to be from the West, she is seen as a gold digger.

And I agree with kindgal that urban women (and probably urban men as well) in Thailand are waiting longer to get married. The way I see it, if you can work and be financially independent, you can afford not to marry a jerk.

If the couple already had sex, typically the woman will expect that the boyfriend marry her. This weakens her position. It is therefore unadvisable for Thai women to have sex or physical intimacy before marriage. Ask a conservative Thai guy and he will tell you he won’t marry a girl he has slept with… while he himself screws around. Unfair, of course, and we continue to hear about domestic “kitchen knife” incidents. *shudder*

[Potter]

Your comments have helped me a lot understanding thai culture

Thanks for all the comments

To avoid getting offline I have opened a new thread in an other forum http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...t=0#entry992984 Please feel welcome to join the debate.

[mapletree]

This is one of those times when I read the comments with interest but know that little of this applies to me despite 8 great but unmarried years with my partner who is a Thai woman. The issues are so different for gay and lesbian people. No option of legal marriage so no pressure to have a sanctioned ceremony--but not an *opportunity* to have one with the same fanfare and acceptance either.

I guess I wanted to add that there's a whole group of Thai people, many in Thai/farang cross-cultural relationships that don't fit into this conversation even if some of the same emotional and cultural elements might be present. There's no way to legitimize gay/lesbian relationships in Thailand to make others see their validity legally.

[sbk]

This is one of those times when I read the comments with interest but know that little of this applies to me despite 8 great but unmarried years with my partner who is a Thai woman. The issues are so different for gay and lesbian people. No option of legal marriage so no pressure to have a sanctioned ceremony--but not an *opportunity* to have one with the same fanfare and acceptance either.

I guess I wanted to add that there's a whole group of Thai people, many in Thai/farang cross-cultural relationships that don't fit into this conversation even if some of the same emotional and cultural elements might be present. There's no way to legitimize gay/lesbian relationships in Thailand to make others see their validity legally.

So true mapletree, but I have to say that one of the bonuses of Thai perspectives is the general opinion that if you are in a serious relationship it doesn't matter if you are married or not, you are considered married. Unfortunately, legally that doesn't give you a leg to stand on