Old Man River Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Why are you so hung up on this Sirote guy? Why do you always call him Khun? AEC has been investigating the matter for nearly three months now. Are you suggesting that they charged the wrong man and Sirote had nothing to do with it? No one, including Pridiyatorn, who initially contested Sirote's guilt, argues that anymore. The timeline is confusing, it's true. However I posted quotes from Sirote himself showing that he WAS involved with covering Banapot share sale, though much later on. Perhaps it was his reaction to registered public complaints that put him in hot water. Prior to Director General he was a "senior adviser", and if he put his signature on paper absolving Pojamarn and Banapot, he should be held responsible. All the details should be in AEC files. Re. Shin sale - it was known from the start that Ample Rich shares were not put through the stock market, Pin and Pan "bought" them directly for 1 baht each one day before Temasek sale. It was all over the news for months. If that is what he called "newly discovered evidence", than Sirote better plead insanity than ignorance. I use titles (khun etc.) because a well known phu yai once took me aside and explained that in Thailand titles are very important and I should get used to using them. I realize that on TV this isn't necessary, but I figure while in Rome ... I am hung up on Khun Sirote because we have known the family for more than 30 years. Out of personal interest only, from time to time we have "checked up" on his reputation and always found him to be viewed as one of the few straight arrows in the government. Therefore, when I read some of the comments from people that automatically assume he is one of the worst of the bunch, while I know it is politics, it still doesn't go down well. It has been written that because Khun Sirote was Head of the Revenue Dept. at the time of the SHIN sale that he should be made to pay. He is being made to pay for the Bannapot decision which occurred nine years earlier and in Khun Sirote's case, the decision is being viewed as a criminal act. The fact that neither Khun Sirote nor the legal department at that time gained from the decision doesn't matter. The possibility that they may have viewed it as the correct decision also doesn't matter. At least as it concerns them, but not as it concerns the Head of the Revenue Dept at that time, because he has not been charged with anything. If the decision is criminal, how could this be? In addition, if the Bannapot decision is that he is now liable for taxes from the money received from the Khunying, why isn't the Khunying equally liable for taxes on the money she received from the maid? If the Bannapot decision is criminal, then why is a similar transaction being viewed in the opposite way? The bottom line is that Khun Sirote and the legal department have been caught in a political net that they can't escape from. Plus, happy holidays to you and your family and all the best in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 4, 2007 Author Share Posted January 4, 2007 Thaksin's wife, brother-in-law skip assets probe panel BANGKOK, Jan 4 (TNA) - Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra, wife of deposed prime minister Thaksin, and her adoptive brother Bannapot Damapong, failed to meet the Assets Examination Committee(AEC) as the panel had scheduled on Thursday to acknowledge a charge of tax evasion over their share transfers. Shinawatra family legal advisor Noppadol Pattama told reporters that Khunying Pojaman and Mr. Bannapot did not show up since they were on business trips abroad. He said he believed the absence of the two would not cause any legal problems with the AEC, because the panel could send a written charge to them directly afterwards. Khunying Pojaman insisted she would appear in person to testify at the stage of clarifying charges, Mr. Noppadol said. Khunying Pojaman, Mr. Bannapot, and four of their close aides are under accusation by the AEC of colluding to lie to the authorities in order to evade tax liability in connection with the 1997 transfer of 4.5 million Shin shares worth Bt 738 million (over US$20 million). Source: TNA - 4 January 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I use titles (khun etc.) because a well known phu yai once took me aside and explained that in Thailand titles are very important and I should get used to using them. I realize that on TV this isn't necessary, but I figure while in Rome ... I reserve titles for those that deserve the respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Happy New Year, Oldmanriver. It's tough to accept charges against people you know and respect. It's also true that at those levels justice is not guided by laws but by relationships. What was ok a year ago is a criminal offence now. Nevertheless, Thaksin should have been charged on both occasions, and it doesn't look like Sirote was entirely clean, in my view. The law is temporarily interpreted in a similar vein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 I use titles (khun etc.) because a well known phu yai once took me aside and explained that in Thailand titles are very important and I should get used to using them. I realize that on TV this isn't necessary, but I figure while in Rome ... I reserve titles for those that deserve the respect. Sorry, I realize off topic. TAWP, as an American, we normally follow your way. However, if you listen to the way Thai's speak to one another, you realize that titles are always used unless among real close friends. Since this is where I call home, it is best to follow the local rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 it doesn't look like Sirote was entirely clean, in my view. A few years ago I mentioned to a Dep. PM that his party was the clean party. He corrected me saying that nobody is clean in Thailand and that his party could be viewed as the relatively clean party. Hence, I cannot say that Khun Sirote is entirely clean either, but he has been viewed as relatively clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 We never use any titles with anyone but HM the King on Thaivisa, that's why I asked. I think even you reserve Khun only for Sirote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 We never use any titles with anyone but HM the King on Thaivisa, that's why I asked. I think even you reserve Khun only for Sirote. No, not Khun in the Royal sense. Khun John, Khun Bill, etc. Just means mister. Since this has caused confusion, I will drop titles in TV. After all, there is too much going on in Bangkok these days than getting people sidetracked on titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 looks like they might be finally cracking the whip with the Imelda-wannabe, Potjaman TAX PROBE / DEFENCE AGAINST CRIMINAL CHARGES Potjaman, Bannapot have 15 days Potjaman Shinawatra, wife of the deposed prime minister, and her step-brother have 15 days to defend themselves against criminal charges of collusion in tax evasion, otherwise the case will proceed, Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC) spokesman Sak Korsangruang said yesterday. A formal notice of criminal charges against Khunying Potjaman, her step-brother Bannapot Damapong and another two accused people will be sent to them today as they failed to acknowledge the charges before an inquiry team of the ASC yesterday, said Mr Sak, who is a member of the inquiry sub-panel. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/05Jan2007_news01.php Pranee Wetchapruekpitak: Met Mr Sak's team yesterday The four others charged are Duangta Vongpakdi, the Shinawatra family's domestic helper; Kanchanapha Honghern, a secretary to Potjaman; Wanchai Honghern, a broker for the deal; and Pranee Wetchapruekpitak, Potjaman's close assistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Pridiyathorn orders new Revenue chief to speed up tax collecting Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Sunday instructed new the new revenue chief to speed up tax collecting from the family of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra over the sale of Shin Corp's shares to Temasek Holdings. Pridiyathorn said he told Sanit Rangnoi to speed up the process of collecting the taxes related to the transfer of Shincorp shares from Ample Rich to Thaksin's two children before the shares were sold to Temasek. Pridiyathorn was speaking to reporters after a meeting with top officials of the Finance Ministry. The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I presume of particular interest to old man river: Officials could learn lesson from dismissal Thai Rath editorial _ After a lengthy investigation, the Finance Ministry on Dec 25 dismissed Revenue Department director-general Sirote Sawasdipanich and four other senior officials for failing to tax the brother-in-law of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. This is a lesson for civil servants that they must do everything by the book. The investigation focused on the transfer of 4.5 million shares of Shin Corp by Khunying Potjaman, wife of Mr Thaksin, to her brother Bannapot Damapong in 1997. Mr Sirote and the four senior officials ruled the shares, worth 738 million baht, were exempt from tax because they were a gift from Khunying Potjaman. Continued here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/08Jan2007_news16.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) The article ends with: "Let's hope that the dismissal of the five Revenue Department officials will lead to wider transparency and righteousness among civil servants." I personally think that this approach will never deter anything similar from happening again. Will they still be allowed a civil servant's pension upon retirement? What prevents anyone from making such decisions again, being dismissed and some time later receive an under the table sum of money that would by far surpass the salary that civil servant would have earned up until retirement? Many would easily accept a dismissal without any other punishment if tempted with a pot of gold. Edited January 8, 2007 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 AEC to hold a meeting this afternoon to discuss corrupted projects The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) will hold a meeting today afternoon to acknowledge the progress of the works of the subcommittees responsible for inspecting all corrupted projects such as the procurement of land in Ratchadaphisek (รัชดาภิเษก) by Khunying Potjaman Shinawatra, the wife of former prime minister Thaksin, and the purchase of CTX 9000 explosives-detection machines. Mr. Sak Khosangruang (สัก กอแสงเรือง), the AEC spokesman, said before attending the meeting that the AEC will carefully listen to all reports. He also commented on the rumor of the slow investigation procedure because the AEC did not send the lawsuits together with the appeals. He responded that AEC chairman Nam Yimyaem (นาม ยิ้มแย้ม) and Auditor-General Jaruwan Maintaka (จารุวรรณ เมณฑกา) are overseeing this responsibility. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 January 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 AEC to accept Thaksin's written statement BANGKOK, Jan 9 (TNA) - The Assets Examination Committee (AEC) insists that there was no need for the deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra to return home to defend himself over corruption allegations. AEC chairman Nam Yimyaem told reporters that the investigators are prepared to admit Mr Thaksin's submission of evidence in writing or via video conference, thus making it unnecessary for the ex-premier, who is now in self-exile in China, to physically return to Thailand. But he stressed that Mr Thaksin's two children would be required to testify in person about the controversial sale of Shin Corp shares to Singapore's Temasek Holdings. "We want Panthongtae and Pinthongta Shinawatra to give evidence and have already served notice. We have yet to see if they will comply. If not, then the court could be asked to issue a summons, forcing them to testify to the committee," the AEC chairman added. Earlier, Mr. Thaksin issued a statement through his legal adviser, saying he wished to return home to defend his family and himself against alleged corruption charges. Meanwhile, Udom Fuengfung, a member of the committee, said that the AEC would send letters telling agencies that have suffered losses because of alleged irregularities or corruption under the ousted Thaksin government to file complaints against the wrongdoers. The AEC had told the Finance Ministry to file a complaint over the land purchase by Thaksin's wife, Khunying Pojaman. Under the terms of the anti-corruption law, parties that have suffered damage need to file complaints in regard to suspected wrongdoers, including those holding political positions. That allows the AEC to send cases, after investigation, to the Attorney-General for prosecution. - MCOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Finance Ministry files complaints against Khunying Pojaman Finance Ministry has filed complaints with the Assets Examination Committee against wife of ousted prime minister, Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra, over a controversial land purchase, its minister Pridiyathorn Devakula said Tuesday. He insisted that he did not ignore AEC's order to file complaints against wrongdoers of alleged irregularities or corruption under the ousted Thaksin government as being criticised. "I just received the order from AEC on Monday and I follow the instruction to file the complaints on that night. It is not true that I had been informed of the order many days before," he said. AEC has warned state agencies that ignore the AEC's order to file complaints against wrongdoers could face corruption charges. The AEC had told the Transport Ministry and Airports of Thailand to file complaints in the case of corruption in the procurement of CTX 9000 bomb scanners for Suvarnabhumi Airport. Under the anti-corruption law, parties that have suffered damage need to file complaints about suspected wrongdoers, including people holding political positions. That allows the AEC to send cases, after investigation, to the Attorney-General for prosecution. He said the AEC would send letters to the parties that have suffered damage due to alleged irregularities in the procurement of the power network for Suvarnabhumi Airport. And Auditor-General Jaruvan Maintaka, an AEC member, would inform the affected agency again about Pojaman Shinawatra's land purchase. Source: The Nation - 9 January 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) Security to be tightened when Panthongtae testifies Wednesday Panthongtae Shinawatra, son of the ousted prime minister Thaksin, is scheduled to meet the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) on Wednesday to testify about the controversial tax-free sale of Shin Corp shares to Singapore's Temasek Holdings. Viroj Laohaphan who chairs the investigating panel said Panthongtae was expected to appear before the panel at 11am. Deputy Auditor-General Pisit Leelavachiropas said military officers would increase security measures during Panthongtae's appearance. More officers would patrol the compound and the Office of Auditor-General wouldn't allow irrelevant vehicles or the media's outdoor broadcasting vehicles around the building. Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said Panthongtae had confirmed he would meet the AEC. He also showed confidence he would be able to answer the AEC's panel's questions although he would have to be interviewed alone as he had consulted legal advisers well. The Nation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please don't grill me too hard with your questions. It's bad for my complexion. Edited January 9, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Will Pin testify tomorrow as well? Would have been nice to see them contradict themselves on the same day. Bah, will probbably happen anyway even if she could watch a video of the interrogation, there's way too much to answer to for dad's financial puppets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 day and time are now public knowledge ................ so much for tightening security Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) she's on the docket for the 24th, Tony... Son of ousted prime minister testifies on sales of Shin Corp Panthongtae Shinawatra, son of ousted prime minister Thaksin, arrives at office of Assets Examination Committee on Wednesday to testify about his involvement in the tax-free sale of Shin Corp shares to Temasek Holdings of Singapore. He is scheduled to testify alone before the AEC at 11am. He was accompanied by his youngest sister, Prathongtan. Others to testify were Pinthongta Shinawatra; Thaksin's second daughter, who is scheduled to testify on January 24, and the secretary of Thaksin's wife, Kanjanapa Honghern on January 12. Supporters of Panthongtae gathered in front of the AEC office, but he was whisked away by security persons upon arrival at the office. The Nation =================================== I'm cool, I'm cool.... I've rehearsed all my lines. Take your best shot. Ask me anything. Edited January 10, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Mr. Panthongtae informed share transfers detail to AEC members Mr. Panthongtae Shinawatra, Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin's son, informed the detail of share transfers between Shin Corp and Ample Rich Investment to the Office of the Auditor General of Thailand at the scheduled time of 11 AM today. Following the testimony, 30 people gave roses to Mr. Panthongtae as a sign of encouragement. Mr. Panthongtae traveled to the Office of the Auditor General with Ms. Paethongtan Shinawatra, his sister, and Mr. Weerapat Srichaiya (วีรภัทร ศรีไชยยา), his lawyer. There was a little disorder when Mr. Panthongtae arrived at the office as journalists and photographers tried to approach him, but no serious incidents occur after he refused to give any interview before the meeting with the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 10 January 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyk Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Was he able to answer how much is 2+2? I'm sure he was impeccably groomed. Edited January 10, 2007 by johnnyk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 oh too have been a fly on the wall ................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) There was a little disorder when Mr. Panthongtae arrived at the office Understatement of the Month... Television news footage of the event showed dozens of photographers and media types and security all jostling and pushing... it's a miracle that apparently no one was injured. A real media frenzy. Panthongtae Shinawatra, center with glasses, son of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, fights his way through surrounding newsmen to the office of Assets Examination Committee (AEC) in Bangkok, Thailand, Wednesday, Jan. 10, 2007. Panthongtae will testify regarding his involvement in the tax-free sale of media-telecommunications conglomerate Shin Corp shares in January 2006. The committee ruled last month that two of Thaksin's children must pay 5.8 billion baht (US$163 million; euro123 million) in unpaid-taxes sale. (AP Photo) Edited January 10, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Was he able to answer how much is 2+2?I'm sure he was impeccably groomed. The chameleon, who changes his look with the wind, went for the "geek" look today... Panthongtae Shinawatra, right, son of ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and his younger sister Paethongtharn, left, are surrounded by newsmen as they arrive at the office of Assets Examination Committee (AEC) in Bangkok, Thailand, Wednesday. (World Photos) Edited January 10, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 with all the prior talk about security , was this done on purpose to shake him up ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Paethongtharn: Oh my goodness, Oak.... I'm scared... McDonald's was never this difficult... I want my Mommy. Panthongtae: Tell me about it, sis.... Cheating on my university exams was super easy compared to all of this. I want my Daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) Panthongtae: I just signed papers, ask mum's secretary Panthongtae Shinawatra, son of deposed prime minister Thaksin, failed to answer many questions raised by the Assets Scrutiny Committee's tax investigators about the operations of Ample Rich Investments yesterday. He insisted his role was just to sign papers, the head of the inquiry, Viroj Laohaphan, said. ''I have confidence in the information I provided today,'' he said after the hearing. http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/11Jan2007_news02.php ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- how pathetic.... it'll be a tough non-performance to beat for his sister when she goes to answer questions on the 24th. Edited January 11, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodo Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 During his testimony, Pan-thongtae mostly responded to questions with "I don't know", said Viroj Laohaphan, chairman of the AEC's subcommittee investigating the controversial tax-free transaction. "He could answer nearly all the questions which were basic in nature. It's likely that we won't invite him again to appear unless we need more information," he said. (Sak Korsangruang) Such in depth answers. I wonder how long it took for him to memorize, "I don't know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 "Hey bro, what did they ask you?" - "No, I don't know." "It's ok, you're home now" - "No, I don't know" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxymoron Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 During his testimony, Pan-thongtae mostly responded to questions with "I don't know", said Viroj Laohaphan, chairman of the AEC's subcommittee investigating the controversial tax-free transaction."He could answer nearly all the questions which were basic in nature. It's likely that we won't invite him again to appear unless we need more information," he said. (Sak Korsangruang) Such in depth answers. I wonder how long it took for him to memorize, "I don't know." Please can some one help me understand!!! Some 10 months ago I read an article in The Bangkok Post that there was no Capital Gains Tax on shares traded through the SET. Also as an investor with stocks every where I know that "shares" when transacted, in other countries attract: a) Capital Gains Tax Stamp Duty on the transfer c) Annual Taxation on any Dividends, either severally or jointly. Also if the shares are in a Public Listed Company eg Stock Exchange Thailand, you can trade then On Market or Off Market, either way does not change the Tax issues above, it only reduces Brokerage Fees. I do this Off Market trade every May to balance my tax issues, between the many portfolios me my wife and children own. Finally the Shinawatra family only owned around 49% of the Communication empire they sold. What about the other 51% of the shares owned I can only assume by everyday Thai retail traders such as me, why have we not heard what their Taxation position will be?? Disclaimer me nor any of my family hold any interests the Thai Sharemarket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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