Dr Wisanu keeps mum on what to do if draft charter fails in referendum

[webfact]

Dr Wisanu keeps mum on what to do if draft charter fails in referendum



BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister Wisanu Kruea-ngarm remains tight-lipped about what will the government do if the draft constitution fails to be endorsed in the national referendum.

When asked about the question that the draft charter may not sail through the referendum, he said he could say anything because this is not the right timing to talk about it. He added that the government has wanted the draft to pass the referendum so that everything will proceed in accordance with the political roadmap.

But if the draft is rejected in the referendum, he said that the election would be delayed but it would not be for long.

The deputy prime minister defended that the distribution of copies of the draft charter to the public and the efforts by officials concerned to educate the public about the content of the draft as well as the referendum was not a campaign by the government to convince people to vote for the draft but to make them understand the draft.

Despite the government’s efforts, he admitted that it is possible that members of the public would have different perceptions about the draft charter.

Regarding concern over what was said to be climate of fear created by the government which might affect free expressions, Dr Wisanu said that free expressions are permissible within the framework of the law.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/164332

-- Thai PBS 2016-05-23

[phoenixdoglover]

"free expressions are permissable within the framework of the law."

Would that be the Election law that was rushed through so as to limit "free" expression?

There is really not enough scorn stored up in the universe to heap upon this double-talk.

[Hawk]

Dr Wisanu said that free expressions are permissible within the framework of the law."

But the referendum law stipulates that any and all discussion is not allowed, also the wearing of signs, T-shirts etc with the words no vote, yes vote, no, yes are also against the law.

So I presume the only free expression he is referring to is a fart.

[phoenixdoglover]

Dr Wisanu said that free expressions are permissible within the framework of the law."

But the referendum law stipulates that any and all discussion is not allowed, also the wearing of signs, T-shirts etc with the words no vote, yes vote, no, yes are also against the law.

So I presume the only free expression he is referring to is a fart.

A fart would be rude. Rude is prohibited.

A cough might just squeak by.

[Reigntax]

What should happen is that these imbaciles should return to the barracks, apoligise to the Thai people for making the country a laughing stock, for the economic damage they have caused and find the nearest rope and make best use of it. Alternatively fall on their own swords for the damage and disunity they have created.

[Winniedapu]

"free expressions are permissable within the framework of the law."

Would that be the Election law that was rushed through so as to limit "free" expression?

There is really not enough scorn stored up in the universe to heap upon this double-talk.

I've got some spare if you need it...

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

What should happen is that these imbaciles should return to the barracks, apoligise to the Thai people for making the country a laughing stock, for the economic damage they have caused and find the nearest rope and make best use of it. Alternatively fall on their own swords for the damage and disunity they have created.

There's only one prevent another coup and that is to get serious about this one - which I honestly doubt will happen, and that makes me very sad.

What should happen is this:

1. Start killing soldiers in the streets. If it was OK for the army to use snipers against unarmed civilians in 2010, it is OK for the people to use snipers against soldiers. Make soldiers afraid to be soldiers. Done properly, this step will ultimately prevent a civil war and will provoke a mutiny in the armed forces.

2. When civilian government is restored, try any soldiers who plotted a coup and/or conducted a coup for treason and have them rightly face a firing squad.

3. Imprison anyone who assisted with the plotting or execution of a coup, or who supported or worked for the coup-makers before or after the coup for a mandatory 15 years without parole. The crime of treason should attract a response from the people at least as severe as far too many people have had to bear for LM, real or confected.

4. Two other steps that we are not allowed to talk about here. The first is about renaming the Thai police and armed forces and making them permanently accountable to the people - who pay their wages (and 'perks').

Treason is a crime against the people of a country. If you fail to punish a dog for stealing a bone, it will do so again. If you punish a dog properly for stealing a bone, it will not want to steal a bone again.

Severe? Yes. Too severe? No. In my view, it is essential to stop bone-stealing.

I guarantee there would be no more coups in Thailand.

Winnie

[sjaak327]

But if the draft is rejected in the referendum, he said that the election would be delayed but it would not be for long.

Interesting to say the least. So at first he announced that if the referendum was rejected, they would take the 2014 interim constitution, amend it and activate it without a referendum.

Later he suddenly claimed that if the referendum would be rejected, they would start the process again, including a referendum.

This seems to indicate they are actually going for the first option, amend the 2014 constitution and call it a day.

He added that the government has wanted the draft to pass the referendum so that everything will proceed in accordance with the political roadmap.

and

efforts by officials concerned to educate the public about the content of the draft as well as the referendum was not a campaign by the government to convince people to vote for the draft but to make them understand the draft.

The above two quotes are where the problem lies, if they do a proper job in explaining the charter to the Thai electorate, it has absolutely zero chance of passing the referendum. Unless of course they rig the referendum, or they don't properly explain the charter..

[chainarong]

Without reading the fine print, a road map that's been designed by them , for them.................................... ..

[greenchair]

He's already having the scribes hand write this constitution to be approved. Something that takes thousands of hours and dollars.

The vote is in.

[Roadman]

It is an interesting position if it is rejected. Given that General Prayut said he owed it to the country to get it right when he threw all the lowlife mafia scumbag politicians out does he delay elections yet again and start work on the next draft or fold and let the scumbags back in.

Thailand with its majority acceptance of patronage and corruption is not going to change in the foreseeable future and will be a basket case for many years yet unless the cornerstone of basic human value of equality for all fellow citizens obtains the majority without political fear. Probably best to take the short term pain and have another go at the draft than accept the long term pain that the scumbag Shinawtra's with their "a democratic election then gives dictatorial rule" mafia control, frequent three trillion pig trough thefts and convenient mystery political murders would have eventually brought.

Perhaps park elections and actually broaden the scope of the next draft to include all who want to be involved regardless of time and expense, past political agenda and current exile, with amnesty for past deeds during that time of drafting the charter from both Army and civilian law. Time is sometimes your beat friend if used wisely.

[chainarong]

It is an interesting position if it is rejected. Given that General Prayut said he owed it to the country to get it right when he threw all the lowlife mafia scumbag politicians out does he delay elections yet again and start work on the next draft or fold and let the scumbags back in.

Thailand with its majority acceptance of patronage and corruption is not going to change in the foreseeable future and will be a basket case for many years yet unless the cornerstone of basic human value of equality for all fellow citizens obtains the majority without political fear. Probably best to take the short term pain and have another go at the draft than accept the long term pain that the scumbag Shinawtra's with their "a democratic election then gives dictatorial rule" mafia control, frequent three trillion pig trough thefts and convenient mystery political murders would have eventually brought.

Perhaps park elections and actually broaden the scope of the next draft to include all who want to be involved regardless of time and expense, past political agenda and current exile, with amnesty for past deeds during that time of drafting the charter from both Army and civilian law. Time is sometimes your beat friend if used wisely.

True, it is catch 22 time and Prayut - O doesn't even know it, Thailand politicly is now a basket case , they have not addressed the two major factions issue , mainly because one is in their own back yard , nothing will be achieved, nothing will be gained , the only way forward is a repeat of 1973 with better terms attached.

[MZurf]

It is an interesting position if it is rejected. Given that General Prayut said he owed it to the country to get it right when he threw all the lowlife mafia scumbag politicians out does he delay elections yet again and start work on the next draft or fold and let the scumbags back in.

Thailand with its majority acceptance of patronage and corruption is not going to change in the foreseeable future and will be a basket case for many years yet unless the cornerstone of basic human value of equality for all fellow citizens obtains the majority without political fear. Probably best to take the short term pain and have another go at the draft than accept the long term pain that the scumbag Shinawtra's with their "a democratic election then gives dictatorial rule" mafia control, frequent three trillion pig trough thefts and convenient mystery political murders would have eventually brought.

Perhaps park elections and actually broaden the scope of the next draft to include all who want to be involved regardless of time and expense, past political agenda and current exile, with amnesty for past deeds during that time of drafting the charter from both Army and civilian law. Time is sometimes your beat friend if used wisely.

"Given that General Prayut said he owed it to the country to get it right when he threw all the lowlife mafia scumbag politicians out......"

And do you really think those who replaced them are any better? What, exactly, is it that has happened during the last two years that makes you believe this?

[tuanku]

What should happen is that these imbaciles should return to the barracks, apoligise to the Thai people for making the country a laughing stock, for the economic damage they have caused and find the nearest rope and make best use of it. Alternatively fall on their own swords for the damage and disunity they have created.

There's only one prevent another coup and that is to get serious about this one - which I honestly doubt will happen, and that makes me very sad.

What should happen is this:

1. Start killing soldiers in the streets. If it was OK for the army to use snipers against unarmed civilians in 2010, it is OK for the people to use snipers against soldiers. Make soldiers afraid to be soldiers. Done properly, this step will ultimately prevent a civil war and will provoke a mutiny in the armed forces.

2. When civilian government is restored, try any soldiers who plotted a coup and/or conducted a coup for treason and have them rightly face a firing squad.

3. Imprison anyone who assisted with the plotting or execution of a coup, or who supported or worked for the coup-makers before or after the coup for a mandatory 15 years without parole. The crime of treason should attract a response from the people at least as severe as far too many people have had to bear for LM, real or confected.

4. Two other steps that we are not allowed to talk about here. The first is about renaming the Thai police and armed forces and making them permanently accountable to the people - who pay their wages (and 'perks').

Treason is a crime against the people of a country. If you fail to punish a dog for stealing a bone, it will do so again. If you punish a dog properly for stealing a bone, it will not want to steal a bone again.

Severe? Yes. Too severe? No. In my view, it is essential to stop bone-stealing.

I guarantee there would be no more coups in Thailand.

Winnie

Fighting guns with guns, injustice with injustice - it doesn't generally work.

Mahatma Ghandi showed the way.

[Srikcir]

But if the draft is rejected in the referendum, he said that the election would be delayed but it would not be for long.

Interesting to say the least. So at first he announced that if the referendum was rejected, they would take the 2014 interim constitution, amend it and activate it without a referendum.

Later he suddenly claimed that if the referendum would be rejected, they would start the process again, including a referendum.

This seems to indicate they are actually going for the first option, amend the 2014 constitution and call it a day.

He added that the government has wanted the draft to pass the referendum so that everything will proceed in accordance with the political roadmap.

and

efforts by officials concerned to educate the public about the content of the draft as well as the referendum was not a campaign by the government to convince people to vote for the draft but to make them understand the draft.

The above two quotes are where the problem lies, if they do a proper job in explaining the charter to the Thai electorate, it has absolutely zero chance of passing the referendum. Unless of course they rig the referendum, or they don't properly explain the charter..

Mostly likely if the upcoming referendum fails to approve the Meechai 2016 draft, there will be no further public participation in order to keep to the 2017 voting schedule. In January 2016 he said that "if the draft is rejected in the referendum, the election would be delayed but it would not be for long."

In February 2016 Wisanu said that "if the draft was rejected in the referendum the government would amend the draft and have it promulgated without another referendum"

In April 2016 he said that "it could resemble previous constitutions or draft constitutions created by charter drafters assembled during the Prayut Chan-o-cha administration"

Now Wisanu keeps mum - he's said enough already.

[dageurreotype]

What should happen is that these imbaciles should return to the barracks, apoligise to the Thai people for making the country a laughing stock, for the economic damage they have caused and find the nearest rope and make best use of it. Alternatively fall on their own swords for the damage and disunity they have created.

There's only one prevent another coup and that is to get serious about this one - which I honestly doubt will happen, and that makes me very sad.

What should happen is this:

1. Start killing soldiers in the streets. If it was OK for the army to use snipers against unarmed civilians in 2010, it is OK for the people to use snipers against soldiers. Make soldiers afraid to be soldiers. Done properly, this step will ultimately prevent a civil war and will provoke a mutiny in the armed forces.

2. When civilian government is restored, try any soldiers who plotted a coup and/or conducted a coup for treason and have them rightly face a firing squad.

3. Imprison anyone who assisted with the plotting or execution of a coup, or who supported or worked for the coup-makers before or after the coup for a mandatory 15 years without parole. The crime of treason should attract a response from the people at least as severe as far too many people have had to bear for LM, real or confected.

4. Two other steps that we are not allowed to talk about here. The first is about renaming the Thai police and armed forces and making them permanently accountable to the people - who pay their wages (and 'perks').

Treason is a crime against the people of a country. If you fail to punish a dog for stealing a bone, it will do so again. If you punish a dog properly for stealing a bone, it will not want to steal a bone again.

Severe? Yes. Too severe? No. In my view, it is essential to stop bone-stealing.

I guarantee there would be no more coups in Thailand.

Winnie

Fighting guns with guns, injustice with injustice - it doesn't generally work.

Mahatma Ghandi showed the way.

That very timely quote could equally apply to Bernie Sanders. Go Bernie

[Eric Loh]

Whether he keep mum or not, doesn't matter, we know what's ahead of us should the draft fail to get the vote. Any military driven constitutions in the past which form the majority of the 19 constitutions, chip away people freedom and written to ensure government control of the people. I don't expect that to change in the next draft. Only once in 1997 did we have an inclusive non military people constitution written with public participation and the democratic nature of the articles.

[billphillips]

Hmmmmm. I thought the self appointed PM claimed to have the support of the people, or at least most of them. If that is the case the referendum should present no problems or surprises for him. Likewise a prompt general election should go favourably in his direction. I suspect some element of skulduggery and even more of "porkiies" playing their part in the PMs election campaign. This man will be remembered in the history books of the world, as a prime example of how not to do a military take over. Unfortunately for all, he is now in the unwelcome position of having to retain power to secure his own safety and/or freedom. Their is a strong possibility that some more skulduggery and porkies should be expected when the voting results come in. A sad situation for Thailand. He can't afford to lose, the majority can't afford for him to win.

[phoenixdoglover]

Whether he keep mum or not, doesn't matter, we know what's ahead of us should the draft fail to get the vote. Any military driven constitutions in the past which form the majority of the 19 constitutions, chip away people freedom and written to ensure government control of the people. I don't expect that to change in the next draft. Only once in 1997 did we have an inclusive non military people constitution written with public participation and the democratic nature of the articles.

Agree. There is no compelling reason for the Junta to explain what happens if the Charter is rejected in the referendum.

I believe the Junta sees the referendum as necessary to dress the next government with a cloak of legitimacy. In my view, they have lost that objective with the UN, EU, US, and the human rights NGOs, while China and Russia will be perfectly willing to endorse the result.

The Thai populace at this point could be complacent, satisfied, cowed, or simmering; it's difficult to assess. But I do see the Junta forging ahead, and willing to deal with impediments (irate citizens).

If the Charter is rejected? Easy. Modify it a bit and declare Democracy in Thailand is restored. Accept the accolades of Russia and China. Ban a bunch of "corrupt" politicians. Hold sanitized elections. Install a cooperative PM, and his military minders.

Above all, control the outcome.

Unless the people decide otherwise.

[Winniedapu]

It is an interesting position if it is rejected. Given that General Prayut said he owed it to the country to get it right when he threw all the lowlife mafia scumbag politicians out does he delay elections yet again and start work on the next draft or fold and let the scumbags back in.

Thailand with its majority acceptance of patronage and corruption is not going to change in the foreseeable future and will be a basket case for many years yet unless the cornerstone of basic human value of equality for all fellow citizens obtains the majority without political fear. Probably best to take the short term pain and have another go at the draft than accept the long term pain that the scumbag Shinawtra's with their "a democratic election then gives dictatorial rule" mafia control, frequent three trillion pig trough thefts and convenient mystery political murders would have eventually brought.

Perhaps park elections and actually broaden the scope of the next draft to include all who want to be involved regardless of time and expense, past political agenda and current exile, with amnesty for past deeds during that time of drafting the charter from both Army and civilian law. Time is sometimes your beat friend if used wisely.

Partly right imho, but mainly wrong, an attempt to white the sepulchre of an illegal government, with a but but but... Thaksin thrown in for good measure.

It will be an interesting position if the referendum is rejected (as I believe it will be), but not for the reasons you thin.

Yes, Thailand will be a basket case for a long time when all this is done and dusted. That's the bit you got right, that's the bit I liked. The rest is just junta-hugging.

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

Whether he keep mum or not, doesn't matter, we know what's ahead of us should the draft fail to get the vote. Any military driven constitutions in the past which form the majority of the 19 constitutions, chip away people freedom and written to ensure government control of the people. I don't expect that to change in the next draft. Only once in 1997 did we have an inclusive non military people constitution written with public participation and the democratic nature of the articles.

Agree. There is no compelling reason for the Junta to explain what happens if the Charter is rejected in the referendum.

I believe the Junta sees the referendum as necessary to dress the next government with a cloak of legitimacy. In my view, they have lost that objective with the UN, EU, US, and the human rights NGOs, while China and Russia will be perfectly willing to endorse the result.

The Thai populace at this point could be complacent, satisfied, cowed, or simmering; it's difficult to assess. But I do see the Junta forging ahead, and willing to deal with impediments (irate citizens).

If the Charter is rejected? Easy. Modify it a bit and declare Democracy in Thailand is restored. Accept the accolades of Russia and China. Ban a bunch of "corrupt" politicians. Hold sanitized elections. Install a cooperative PM, and his military minders.

Above all, control the outcome.

Unless the people decide otherwise.

"If the Charter is rejected? Easy. Modify it a bit and declare Democracy in Thailand is restored. Accept the accolades of Russia and China. Ban a bunch of "corrupt" politicians. Hold sanitized elections. Install a cooperative PM, and his military minders."

And wait for the sanctions - they'll take a while because nobody really cares very much about Thailand, but they will come. Thailand will become the Zimbabwe of Asia if it's not careful.

Although I'm by nature a sceptic, I have to admit everything seems to be going according to plan.

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

What should happen is that these imbaciles should return to the barracks, apoligise to the Thai people for making the country a laughing stock, for the economic damage they have caused and find the nearest rope and make best use of it. Alternatively fall on their own swords for the damage and disunity they have created.

There's only one prevent another coup and that is to get serious about this one - which I honestly doubt will happen, and that makes me very sad.

What should happen is this:

1. Start killing soldiers in the streets. If it was OK for the army to use snipers against unarmed civilians in 2010, it is OK for the people to use snipers against soldiers. Make soldiers afraid to be soldiers. Done properly, this step will ultimately prevent a civil war and will provoke a mutiny in the armed forces.

2. When civilian government is restored, try any soldiers who plotted a coup and/or conducted a coup for treason and have them rightly face a firing squad.

3. Imprison anyone who assisted with the plotting or execution of a coup, or who supported or worked for the coup-makers before or after the coup for a mandatory 15 years without parole. The crime of treason should attract a response from the people at least as severe as far too many people have had to bear for LM, real or confected.

4. Two other steps that we are not allowed to talk about here. The first is about renaming the Thai police and armed forces and making them permanently accountable to the people - who pay their wages (and 'perks').

Treason is a crime against the people of a country. If you fail to punish a dog for stealing a bone, it will do so again. If you punish a dog properly for stealing a bone, it will not want to steal a bone again.

Severe? Yes. Too severe? No. In my view, it is essential to stop bone-stealing.

I guarantee there would be no more coups in Thailand.

Winnie

Fighting guns with guns, injustice with injustice - it doesn't generally work.

Mahatma Ghandi showed the way.

"Fighting guns with guns, injustice with injustice - it doesn't generally work. "

On the contrary, Fighting guns with guns is the only thing that does work, as has been the case with most revolutions to win democracy around the world. And that even applies to the UK and the USA. The Thammasat students found out what happens when you fight guns in the possession of a$$holes with logic and principle.

I would have thought Thais would have woken up to this basic truth by now, but I've never heard anyone accusing Thais of being fast learners.

And I did not advocate fighting injustice with injustice, I advocated fighting guns with guns, and indirectly, fighting terror with terror. But this is Thailand, Thais will take 3 times as long to act as anyone else before they arise from their imposed delusion of nirvana.

Winnie

[phoenixdoglover]

What should happen is that these imbaciles should return to the barracks, apoligise to the Thai people for making the country a laughing stock, for the economic damage they have caused and find the nearest rope and make best use of it. Alternatively fall on their own swords for the damage and disunity they have created.

There's only one prevent another coup and that is to get serious about this one - which I honestly doubt will happen, and that makes me very sad.

What should happen is this:

1. Start killing soldiers in the streets. If it was OK for the army to use snipers against unarmed civilians in 2010, it is OK for the people to use snipers against soldiers. Make soldiers afraid to be soldiers. Done properly, this step will ultimately prevent a civil war and will provoke a mutiny in the armed forces.

2. When civilian government is restored, try any soldiers who plotted a coup and/or conducted a coup for treason and have them rightly face a firing squad.

3. Imprison anyone who assisted with the plotting or execution of a coup, or who supported or worked for the coup-makers before or after the coup for a mandatory 15 years without parole. The crime of treason should attract a response from the people at least as severe as far too many people have had to bear for LM, real or confected.

4. Two other steps that we are not allowed to talk about here. The first is about renaming the Thai police and armed forces and making them permanently accountable to the people - who pay their wages (and 'perks').

Treason is a crime against the people of a country. If you fail to punish a dog for stealing a bone, it will do so again. If you punish a dog properly for stealing a bone, it will not want to steal a bone again.

Severe? Yes. Too severe? No. In my view, it is essential to stop bone-stealing.

I guarantee there would be no more coups in Thailand.

Winnie

Fighting guns with guns, injustice with injustice - it doesn't generally work.

Mahatma Ghandi showed the way.

"Fighting guns with guns, injustice with injustice - it doesn't generally work. "

On the contrary, Fighting guns with guns is the only thing that does work, as has been the case with most revolutions to win democracy around the world. And that even applies to the UK and the USA. The Thammasat students found out what happens when you fight guns in the possession of a$$holes with logic and principle.

I would have thought Thais would have woken up to this basic truth by now, but I've never heard anyone accusing Thais of being fast learners.

And I did not advocate fighting injustice with injustice, I advocated fighting guns with guns, and indirectly, fighting terror with terror. But this is Thailand, Thais will take 3 times as long to act as anyone else before they arise from their imposed delusion of nirvana.

Winnie

I'm not especially strong on history, but I consider myself aware of the big stuff.

I was trying to recall examples of peaceful transitions from authoritarian to democratic government.

Not much comes to mind. I suppose some of the installed democracies in post colonial Africa or South America.

But the violent examples seem more significant.

Myanmar is an interesting case, yet to be settled.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 Eye using Tapatalk

[Eric Loh]

Whether he keep mum or not, doesn't matter, we know what's ahead of us should the draft fail to get the vote. Any military driven constitutions in the past which form the majority of the 19 constitutions, chip away people freedom and written to ensure government control of the people. I don't expect that to change in the next draft. Only once in 1997 did we have an inclusive non military people constitution written with public participation and the democratic nature of the articles.

Agree. There is no compelling reason for the Junta to explain what happens if the Charter is rejected in the referendum.

I believe the Junta sees the referendum as necessary to dress the next government with a cloak of legitimacy. In my view, they have lost that objective with the UN, EU, US, and the human rights NGOs, while China and Russia will be perfectly willing to endorse the result.

The Thai populace at this point could be complacent, satisfied, cowed, or simmering; it's difficult to assess. But I do see the Junta forging ahead, and willing to deal with impediments (irate citizens).

If the Charter is rejected? Easy. Modify it a bit and declare Democracy in Thailand is restored. Accept the accolades of Russia and China. Ban a bunch of "corrupt" politicians. Hold sanitized elections. Install a cooperative PM, and his military minders.

Above all, control the outcome.

Unless the people decide otherwise.

The 2007 referendum present a good idea what would likely happen. The same backdrop of intimidation and harassment by the junta to try steer the referendum to their way. The end result was a 57% turnout with more than 10% voted for the referendum. The details are quite revealing as the north turnout was poor and majority voted against while the south was just the opposite. The real kicker for the positive return of the '07 referendum was that it was supported by the Dem and the PAD. Now this time it's not the case. Not only the Dem has voiced negativity, even PAD Kasit was very vocal againstthe draft. Plus the UDD has called for their supporters to vote.

I think the referendum will be voted down which doesn't mean that the junta will not have their way. They will re-draft and takeout the most contentious issue like the non elected PM and make it appear that they have been amicable. Personally I think this non elected PM is a kind of red herring and can be dispense.

The new charter will still have the MMA which will provide the platform for a coalition party government and we know the outcome of that. The fully appointed senate house which can be dominated by the military is another reliable junta friendly bloc. These segments of the constitution will likely to remain. No more referendum.

Either which way, the election will be held in 2017. Not only the military is looking for an exit strategy, they're also "asked" to quit by their backers for ruining the economy.