Property Prices Dropping

[expatgaz]

Noticed over the last 2 months a lot of houses are being quite dramatically reduced in Price around the Pattaya area, or more specifically over the Sukhumvit.This seems to involve houses in the 12mil catagory.Good news if you ask me as Iam always on the look out for a bargain and have been concerned with the blatent overpricing of houses of late.What though is the cause in your opinion ? Owner ship rules ? People finally realising property is overpriced ? or is everyone just skint ?

EPG

[bkkandrew]

Noticed over the last 2 months a lot of houses are being quite dramatically reduced in Price around the Pattaya area, or more specifically over the Sukhumvit.This seems to involve houses in the 12mil catagory.Good news if you ask me as Iam always on the look out for a bargain and have been concerned with the blatent overpricing of houses of late.What though is the cause in your opinion ? Owner ship rules ? People finally realising property is overpriced ? or is everyone just skint ?

EPG

How long you got??

Strong THB makes prices in terms of USD very high. Uncertainty generated by Coup and ownership rules. New visa rules making prospective buyers wake up to the fact that they can only live in their places 50% off the time (for those affected by new visa rules). New laws generally attempting to reduce the pleasure of living here... I would frankly be suprpised if anyone reported anything other than real estate values dropping!

[Soju]

How long you got??

Strong THB makes prices in terms of USD very high. Uncertainty generated by Coup and ownership rules. New visa rules making prospective buyers wake up to the fact that they can only live in their places 50% off the time (for those affected by new visa rules). New laws generally attempting to reduce the pleasure of living here... I would frankly be suprpised if anyone reported anything other than real estate values dropping!

Have to agree 100% with that. I would expect any Farang dominated housing markets in Thailand to decline in price for the foreseeable future. But I will be looking to buy once I feel the bottom has been reached.

[Rinrada]

12 mill for a flopshop...crazy ...more £/$ than sense

I remember when 1 mill.Bt for a half decent 3 bed Condo seemed expensive ....

maybe not too long before they are back to that level.

[suiging]

I imagine that if I wished to sell the new house I am building now, I would have to take off a considerable slice of the asking price until the company issue is resolved. Luckily I do not have to, or indeed have no wish to sell; but I am aware of a number of poor sods out there who have over extended themselves building to meet the expected airport generated demand, that is simply not happening in the near term.

However, I still believe that when this issue is resolved good times lie ahead. Nice lady in my solicitor's office said no work from farang, but she was inundated with work from mainly BK locals buying every bit of land they can get their hands on. The inner Thai elite generally have their fingers on the pulse and see the potential of the area in the long term.

In short, if you don't have to sell don't. Ride out this self-generated slump, pick up any bargins if you have the spare cash and see what happens.

[GuestHouse]

Thais discounting below the price they know was the rate at sometime in the past.

Now that would be a first.

I've known Thais sit and watch their 'investment' in property go unrented/unsold for years while they paid the bank interest on the loan they took out to pay for it. Rather than loose a small percentage on what they believed the going rate to be.

[lannarebirth]

I have a friend who is really good at knowing when to buy gold. I know others who are pretty good at picking beaten up stocks for future appreciation. I've never been a great long term timer of those asset classes. Me, I've had very good luck, all my adult life, with real property. I don't try to determine if the market is at a low or if it is at a high, I simply try to determine whether or not what I want to buy is an attractive property and whether or not it is selling at less than what I view as it's intrinsic value. If it is i buy it and stop thinking about it and let the future take care of itself. I see some pieces of real estate around the kingdom selling for much more than what I feel their intrinsic value is. I see many more that sell for less. If one's timeframe is long enough it's probably not the worst time in the world to buy, but a few years ago would have been better. One thing I've observed however, is that when there's a ready pool of buyers "when the price drops", it seldom does.

[ashacat]

One thing I've observed however, is that when there's a ready pool of buyers "when the price drops", it seldom does.

My opinion exactly. This is why the prices here (Bangkok) will not go down significantly.

[lannarebirth]

One thing I've observed however, is that when there's a ready pool of buyers "when the price drops", it seldom does.

My opinion exactly. This is why the prices here (Bangkok) will not go down significantly.

In free markets that have some equilibrium between supply and demad you wouldn't expect much downside correction. That, however, is not the recent history of Thailand. Typically, an increasing demand has led to an oversupply which has led to stgnation or correction in prices. I don't see anything like that happening at present, but then I don't watch all the various markets.

[expatgaz]

I've got my eye on a couple of places on the market, all 10 - 13 mil.I reckon a number of these are selling by desperate sellers.I reckon I could catch one or two of them for 6 mil.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

I just went to a Private Equity conference today. Asia's best property analyst Peter Churchouse (IMHO) said that Thai residential property is in stage 4 of the cycle.

So if you agree then hold on till the reversion to mean occurs.

Yo ho !

[HenryB]

12 mill for a flopshop...crazy ...more £/$ than sense

I remember when 1 mill.Bt for a half decent 3 bed Condo seemed expensive ....

maybe not too long before they are back to that level.

Maybe Farangs are learning buying in Thailand is buying nothing. You lost your money the day you brought it

[Steph1012]

12 mill for a flopshop...crazy ...more £/$ than sense

I remember when 1 mill.Bt for a half decent 3 bed Condo seemed expensive ....

maybe not too long before they are back to that level.

Maybe Farangs are learning buying in Thailand is buying nothing. You lost your money the day you brought it

I think and hope speculators and agents will take the hit. Most of us with houses are not worried if it doubles or halves overnight. It's the same house and its still home.

I enjoyed this post much better than the last property post which the Agents put up to try and talk the market up.

A lot of falangs have been scared off recently, this confidence will not come back quickly.

[johnnyk]

Not surprising really.

Thailand has been taking a lot of hits lately with the coup, bombings in the south, land ownership uncertainty etc etc

There is always going to be a bit of a pompem with houses in the 12 million range though.

That's a lot of dosh to have in property anywhere outside western Europe or North America.

The market in Pattaya for these homes may be in real trouble although I think condos are still likely ok there as Pattaya has entered the process of converting to a mainstream destination aimed at the burgeoning Asian market. Condos have far better sales/rental potential than houses in the longer term.

[suiging]

Not surprising really.

Thailand has been taking a lot of hits lately with the coup, bombings in the south, land ownership uncertainty etc etc

There is always going to be a bit of a pompem with houses in the 12 million range though.

That's a lot of dosh to have in property anywhere outside western Europe or North America.

The market in Pattaya for these homes may be in real trouble although I think condos are still likely ok there as Pattaya has entered the process of converting to a mainstream destination aimed at the burgeoning Asian market. Condos have far better sales/rental potential than houses in the longer term.

All agreed.

However, houses in the expensive bracket which have been well built and properly maintained will still do well as long as investment in the airport, port, and Chonburi continue. Th expat managers in these areas have to live somewhere and when the uncertainty in the market makes companies think twice about buying, the rental market should do well.

Sad thing about the boom in Patters, has been the number of supposidly 12 mil houses that are built by cowboys who should stick to sand pits and lego. These are the ones which give the market a bad name and will result in " ghost estates " of crap, filled with dreamers who have bought from the pretty pictures on the net, not realizing a breeze block in Essex, is a breeze block in Pattaya, crap.

Force this rubbish out of the market, and I have no fears for the good stuff in this area in the coming years.

[johnnyk]

Good point about expat managers needing rentals on the eastern seaboard, it is a rapidly expanding industrial area and I hadn't thought of that (more to the expat community than just mongers!).

[taxexile]

not realizing a breeze block in Essex, is a breeze block in Pattaya, crap.

wonderfully put !

[dsfbrit]

There are different markets

1. House with land to live in

I would suspect the market where a farang buys a house with land to live in will be seriously affected. Certainly I would not have bought a house with land to live in if I had fully understood the land ownership issues.

2. House with land - bought to rent

I dont really understand this market - so will not comment further than to say it suffers from the same land ownership issues as 1 above.

3. Own Condo to live in

If you can find a well managed condo in a good location and can buy in your own name I cannot see this market reducing - in fact I would think this would be the best/safest option. Certainly if I were deciding now - then this is the route I would go down. So I would suspect prices may actually go up?

Mind you the company route on condo ownership may/should suffer. I certainly would not buy a condo using this method.

4. Own Condo bought to rent

I dont understand this market, but suspect it is similar to 3 above.

5. Renting

I guess if I were to rent I would be propping up the market on 1 above. My preference would be to rent a house with some land. So I suppose you could argue that whether I rent it or buy it - it still needs to be built and hence there could be demand for this type of property - with land owned 'legally' by Thais - so the prices could still remain firm.

As a general comment. If (and its a big IF) the proposed (rumoured) changes posted in TV relating to land /lease rules are such that farang can lease land longterm(>30 years) from an enity other than a Thai person - ie: the Government - then possibly this will bolster the housing market again.

I know some people are now leasing the land from the property developer, or from similar sources, but I would be more comfortable with a government backed scheme.

Hey I know the government may make a U-turn down the road on any new proposals, but it would be high profile / countrywide and affect many thousands - so may be less likely to happen than dealing with a small local company???.

Lets all be honest - Its a mess isn't it!!! I came to retire to Thailand and relax, not spend lots of

time on the internet trying to understand the housing market and the subtleties of the visa extension

rules ! still SOM NAM NA - it server me right!

Edited November 10, 2006 by dsfbrit

[Heng]

Are these wishful thinking prices dropping? Surely you're not talking about actual property valuations (which in many areas were all just recently ramped up this year by the Pattaya land department).

[HenryB]

Not surprising really.

Thailand has been taking a lot of hits lately with the coup, bombings in the south, land ownership uncertainty etc etc

There is always going to be a bit of a pompem with houses in the 12 million range though.

That's a lot of dosh to have in property anywhere outside western Europe or North America.

The market in Pattaya for these homes may be in real trouble although I think condos are still likely ok there as Pattaya has entered the process of converting to a mainstream destination aimed at the burgeoning Asian market. Condos have far better sales/rental potential than houses in the longer term.

All agreed.

However, houses in the expensive bracket which have been well built and properly maintained will still do well as long as investment in the airport, port, and Chonburi continue. Th expat managers in these areas have to live somewhere and when the uncertainty in the market makes companies think twice about buying, the rental market should do well.

Sad thing about the boom in Patters, has been the number of supposidly 12 mil houses that are built by cowboys who should stick to sand pits and lego. These are the ones which give the market a bad name and will result in " ghost estates " of crap, filled with dreamers who have bought from the pretty pictures on the net, not realizing a breeze block in Essex, is a breeze block in Pattaya, crap.

Force this rubbish out of the market, and I have no fears for the good stuff in this area in the coming years.

Only Rubbish buy in pattaya will their sister or mother buy here. Anyone that buys is dreaming or being taken by so call wife or gf.

Edited November 10, 2006 by HenryB

[suiging]

Not surprising really.

Thailand has been taking a lot of hits lately with the coup, bombings in the south, land ownership uncertainty etc etc

There is always going to be a bit of a pompem with houses in the 12 million range though.

That's a lot of dosh to have in property anywhere outside western Europe or North America.

The market in Pattaya for these homes may be in real trouble although I think condos are still likely ok there as Pattaya has entered the process of converting to a mainstream destination aimed at the burgeoning Asian market. Condos have far better sales/rental potential than houses in the longer term.

All agreed.

However, houses in the expensive bracket which have been well built and properly maintained will still do well as long as investment in the airport, port, and Chonburi continue. Th expat managers in these areas have to live somewhere and when the uncertainty in the market makes companies think twice about buying, the rental market should do well.

Sad thing about the boom in Patters, has been the number of supposidly 12 mil houses that are built by cowboys who should stick to sand pits and lego. These are the ones which give the market a bad name and will result in " ghost estates " of crap, filled with dreamers who have bought from the pretty pictures on the net, not realizing a breeze block in Essex, is a breeze block in Pattaya, crap.

Force this rubbish out of the market, and I have no fears for the good stuff in this area in the coming years.

Only Rubbish buy in pattaya will their sister or mother buy here. Anyone that buys is dreaming or being taken by so call wife or gf.

Oh dear,

Someone has gotten out of bed on the wrong side again.

I wonder how long these blatantly inflammatory comments would last if they were aimed at Samui etc.

I know a lot of very decent family men and women who live in Pattaya; it does get a little tedious listening to them being described as rubbish all the time. Grow up.

[Steph1012]

Bit high and mighty of you there HenryB.

You must have some stake here to be looking at this thread. You one of these sad gits who go there for holidays etc. then slag it off when you leave.

Goodbye

[quiksilva]

Thais discounting below the price they know was the rate at sometime in the past.

Now that would be a first.

I've known Thais sit and watch their 'investment' in property go unrented/unsold for years while they paid the bank interest on the loan they took out to pay for it. Rather than loose a small percentage on what they believed the going rate to be.

^^ This guy knows what he is talking about.

PS The only place where property prices do fall in Thailand is in new projects that have been launched and where sales are going poorly.

[HenryB]

Bit high and mighty of you there HenryB.

You must have some stake here to be looking at this thread. You one of these sad gits who go there for holidays etc. then slag it off when you leave.

Goodbye

I am sorry the cream of English and America society come to invest in Pattaya.

You are poor soul with a pee brain.

[rocky]

I am sorry the cream of English and America society come to invest in Pattaya.

You are poor soul with a pee brain. What does this mean ?

More and more people from Europe are selling retirement homes in places like France and Spain and moving out to Thailand, including Pattaya.

Pattaya is a changing town, now today, there are retired western couples living and moving out to Pattaya to live as the cost of living is cheaper than that of the west.

These western couples are renting and buying property. On the estate where I live in Jomtein total of 95 house’s, 6 are either owned or rented by western couples.

3 years ago there were only Thais, or Western men with Thai partners.

The amount of people coming to Thailand to retire has and is further to increase over the immediate future. I cannot see how a price reduction will take place, even with the 12 million bracket condo and house market. Supply and demand, more and more people buy or rent, create a demand.

View Talay sold condos in Jomtein 3-4 years ago for 500,000bht per unit, presently the same style unit for sale by View Talay (under construction) in Pattaya 2,500,000bht a 5 fold increase. From western standards this is still cheap. Further more, as prices over the long term increase in the west, so they will in holiday resorts like Pattaya.

With the housing market, you’re either in or your out, you either can win or lose, or simple not win, its down to the individual. Henry B, I presume that you’re out. Well next time your in town let me know as I can help you find a great place to rent.

[think_too_mut]

I am sorry the cream of English and America society come to invest in Pattaya.

You are poor soul with a pee brain. What does this mean ?

More and more people from Europe are selling retirement homes in places like France and Spain and moving out to Thailand, including Pattaya.

Pattaya is a changing town, now today, there are retired western couples living and moving out to Pattaya to live as the cost of living is cheaper than that of the west.

These western couples are renting and buying property. On the estate where I live in Jomtein total of 95 house’s, 6 are either owned or rented by western couples.

3 years ago there were only Thais, or Western men with Thai partners.

The amount of people coming to Thailand to retire has and is further to increase over the immediate future. I cannot see how a price reduction will take place, even with the 12 million bracket condo and house market. Supply and demand, more and more people buy or rent, create a demand.

View Talay sold condos in Jomtein 3-4 years ago for 500,000bht per unit, presently the same style unit for sale by View Talay (under construction) in Pattaya 2,500,000bht a 5 fold increase. From western standards this is still cheap. Further more, as prices over the long term increase in the west, so they will in holiday resorts like Pattaya.

With the housing market, you’re either in or your out, you either can win or lose, or simple not win, its down to the individual. Henry B, I presume that you’re out. Well next time your in town let me know as I can help you find a great place to rent.

Load of <deleted>.

There are thousands of s-holes unsold everywhere around Pattaya.

View Talay, probably 100 per Stallin era project, 3-4 thousands of rabbit holes sitting and waiting for a naive byer. All listed, never seen one sold.

A byer need not be naive - could be an alcoholic sheet metal worker who made 30-40K US$ in life savings, after supporting his habbit and tatoos...they can do that.

If fell that low in my life, I might join the team.

[suiging]

Dear Mods

How low does this thread have to go ?

[think_too_mut]

Dear Mods

How low does this thread have to go ?

Low in repelling the fluff? Or, it's a crying mother time?

[Steph1012]

Bit high and mighty of you there HenryB.

You must have some stake here to be looking at this thread. You one of these sad gits who go there for holidays etc. then slag it off when you leave.

Goodbye

I am sorry the cream of English and America society come to invest in Pattaya.

You are poor soul with a pee brain.

Well its refreshing to note that you are obviously not an English teacher.

Love to hear you expressing this opinion round Pattaya.

[Nam Kao]

Be patient, it'll really drop after January when farangs have to go home