New Brexit polls suggest shift in favour of leaving the EU

[nontabury]

If the vote goes to leave will be an economic disaster can only see the UK going into an open ended recession

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Oh good, another 'scare' comment....

I've no idea either way and will have mixed feeling at either result - but I HATE the scare tactics.

scare tactics have been and are still used by both parties!

Yes both sides have used them. But only one side has resorted to xenophobic, nationalistic and borderline racist scare tactics. Let's hope they don't pay off and the electorate shows sense.

One of the reasons that immigration became the unfettered shambles that it is today is because politicians of every stripe were scared of being branded

as bigots, racists, xenophobes, etc., chiefly by the opposing political parties.

It has turned out they have for many years been out of touch with the concerns of their electorate, thus opening the door for a party like UKIP. It is

no wonder that a degree of nationalism has taken hold.

The fact that citizens of the United Kingdom, who at heart are all decent, fair-minded people, do not want uncontrolled immigration, does not make

them racists or anything else.

Immigration is not "uncontrolled". Try bringing your Thai wife to the UK!

"YES" but maybe that is because they are the wives of British citizens,or to be more exact,second class British citizens.

[chiang mai]

I liked this, a comment in the event of Brexit:

"it's not very often you get to watch a country commit suicide, a true pied piper moment, then we can revert to being a flag waving, morris dancing little island and exchange fish and chip recipes with each other - we didn't get subsumed, we showed 'em!"

And yet another scare comment . Argue your opinions, not stupid comments!

........ or page after page after page of stupid cartoons and right wing propaganda slogans and pictures!!!

I'm not sure if you're more afraid of the message,or of the messenger. What I am certain,is you're inability to answer questions head on.

Woof, woof!

[Dagnabbit]

FTSE, DAX and CAC40 are higher today on BRexit weakness! Posted by Naam.

I am astonished that an worldly person like yourself would fall into the trap of believing hyped up

nonsense by the media - be it the print media or CNBC.

If there is nothing newsworthy or controversial, the media will attempt to create it (and, often, falsify it).

There is an axiom in the publishing world, "if it bleeds, it leads"!

i am an investor with my fingers at the pulse of the markets most of the time, usually do not care what the media says but form my own opinion based on facts, experience and intuition.

today i used the Bloomberg comments for those who don't know my background.

Don't care what the media says... But quotes Bloomberg...

Oh the irony

If you had your finger on the pulsr of the markets you would know the difference between buy side and sell side finance

Then you would know why Bloomberg exists.

If you don't know who the patsy is...

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dagnabbit

[dick dasterdly]

I believe that you may possibly be right regarding what you have said in your first sentence.

It is unfortunate, but the Remainians will use what happened to Jo Cox by a deranged psychopath in the thrall of

Nazism, and try to convince the public at large that anyone supporting Brexit falls somewhere in the same ambit.

Decent and right-minded British citizens will want to show how appalled they are by what happened, and perhaps

be swayed by the (sometimes not so subtle) Propaganda of the "in" campaign, and cast a vote accordingly.

I can see why it is tempting to view the remainders as using the death for political purposes, but the reality is they won't.

Cause the won't have to.

The story in and of itself does all the talking for them. It will be a foolish remainer who invokes it.

I think you are not so politically astute as you would like to believe.

I think various politicians have used the sad death of the MP in their own cause, by eulogising her at every turn. Knowing them for what

they are, I believe it is largely self-serving and cynical, and they are playing to the gallery in their own interests.

What were they supposed to do? Speak ill of her while the corpse is still warm?

Any time something like this happens, parliament is generally recalled.

Those who support a brexit were always going to view any eulogising as a blatant cynical attempt. But these politicians arent trying to convince you. Your vote isn't gokng to shift.

Who they are aiming for are the undecideds who could still turn the vote. To over egg it for them could backfire. Which was my point.

Don't disagree with your cynicism about political motives however. Just that in the case it would be too obvious.

20 years ago an Australian MP with depression issues was drive to suicide. It was gauling to listen to the condolence speeches, particularly from those in his own party who had played a part in his demise by exploiting his fragile mental health.

Ps. I'll gloat about my machevellian insight to you all Friday morning when we have the count.

Whereas either way, I'll be worried. Its nice though that some think it may be an opportunity to "gloat".

[SheungWan]

Post by kiwiaussie

Ps. I'll gloat about my machevellian insight to you all Friday morning when we have the count.

Who's the "we", Kimo Sabe? It seems you are an antipodean. The Brexit vote doesn't concern you.

Moreover, you flatter yourself if you think you have Machiavellian attributes.

Moreover, not the spelling of Machiavelli!

...and that is not the spelling of Kemo Sabe !

Obama wants you guys over there to settle down, gaddamitt.

Thanks for your input, Cowboy.

There is no correct spelling for Kimo Sabe (Kemo Sabe, Kemoh Sabeeh) because Native Americans did not have a written language,

so a phonetic spelling is absolutely in order.

Please thank POTUS for his conern.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The phonetic reference is Ke-mo sah-bee. There is no prior reference to Kimo Sabe, which is your invention. Yet again a member of the BREXIT team fails to conduct even minimal prior research.

Here's a message from Tonto for several forum members of the BREXIT team: "You have the tongue and courage of a coyote. You speak much but say nothing." (from The Lost City of Gold)

Edited June 20, 2016 by SheungWan

[dick dasterdly]

I thought most of the guys in Thailand were here because they had definitively written off all the talent in the UK......

Out of the Brits that I know here in Thailand. One of the reasons they are here is because we refuse to throw huge amounts of tax and NI contributions into a system that feeds the bloated beast that is the EU.

It is not really a hard concept. Work to look after your own. Or work to feed a monster that continually needs vast amounts of money.

So you're a tax evader, cool, the UK needs more of those! It might have been better to simply say your reason for being here is sex, that's more acceptable these days.

I am here and have been on and off for 23 years. I started paying income tax as a 15 year old in 1959. Now I have retired and 7 years after my retirement I am STILL paying income tax due to my forethought in getting 2 extra pensions as well as the state pension.

I also get less of a state pension after paying in for 44 years than a lot of people who only paid in for 30 or 36 years.

Do you think that is fair and reasonable?

Another reason to loathe the Brit. govt. rather than the EU.

[dick dasterdly]

scare tactics have been and are still used by both parties!

Yes both sides have used them. But only one side has resorted to xenophobic, nationalistic and borderline racist scare tactics. Let's hope they don't pay off and the electorate shows sense.

One of the reasons that immigration became the unfettered shambles that it is today is because politicians of every stripe were scared of being branded

as bigots, racists, xenophobes, etc., chiefly by the opposing political parties.

It has turned out they have for many years been out of touch with the concerns of their electorate, thus opening the door for a party like UKIP. It is

no wonder that a degree of nationalism has taken hold.

The fact that citizens of the United Kingdom, who at heart are all decent, fair-minded people, do not want uncontrolled immigration, does not make

them racists or anything else.

It has nothing to do with that, its because politicians are 'in bed' with business and so prefer minimum wages. To make this 'more acceptable', the govt. then gave money to those that had families and couldn't survive on the minimum wage (roll eyes). Great for employers, not so great for those on reduced salaries.

Having lived through the 'change', when ordinary salaries were enough to live on (as opposed to now, when they're not), you'll understand why I have no time for Brit. govts. - even though I was never 'downgraded' ....

[SgtRock]

Thanks for your input, Cowboy.

There is no correct spelling for Kimo Sabe (Kemo Sabe, Kemoh Sabeeh) because Native Americans did not have a written language,

so a phonetic spelling is absolutely in order.

Please thank POTUS for his conern.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The phonetic reference is Ke-mo sah-bee. There is no prior reference to Kimo Sabe, which is your invention. Yet again a member of the BREXIT team fails to conduct even minimal prior research.

Here's a message from Tonto for several forum members of the BREXIT team: "You have the tongue and courage of a coyote. You speak much but say nothing." (from The Lost City of Gold)

Lets have a look at that highly qualified and quantified research that the remainiacs are famous for.

Remember this ?

Of course Cameron is spot on with his comment re 'self-inflicted recession' and none more at risk than our Soi Buakaow BREXIT team who if they get their wishes will see their pensions knocked back in real terms as sterling takes an extended bath. The end result will be that some will be able to enjoy their pyrrhic referendum victory back home luxuriating in British winters. Life is grossly unfair when there are no downsizing options after Leo.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/924508-pensions-for-british-elderly-threatened-if-brexit-wins-warns-david-cameron/

[SheungWan]

FTSE, DAX and CAC40 are higher today on BRexit weakness! Posted by Naam.

I am astonished that an worldly person like yourself would fall into the trap of believing hyped up

nonsense by the media - be it the print media or CNBC.

If there is nothing newsworthy or controversial, the media will attempt to create it (and, often, falsify it).

There is an axiom in the publishing world, "if it bleeds, it leads"!

i am an investor with my fingers at the pulse of the markets most of the time, usually do not care what the media says but form my own opinion based on facts, experience and intuition.

today i used the Bloomberg comments for those who don't know my background.

I was not trying to be disrespectful, but your post indicated that you are easily swayed by headlines in the media.

I am also a trader, and, whilst taking note of what I see or hear in the media, I use a very strong "filter" before I accept their

commentary as "fact". My style of trading does not depend on what the media say.

Sounds like a la-la-la filter as far as today's markets are concerned.

FTSE now up over 3%. Brexit toast.

[delgarcon]

Relax folks, the most reliable yardstick when it comes to a contest is the British bookmaker and Betfair, probably the most accurate of them all, says that Britain is 3/1 on to remain in Europe. We aint going anywhere!

[chiang mai]

Out of the Brits that I know here in Thailand. One of the reasons they are here is because we refuse to throw huge amounts of tax and NI contributions into a system that feeds the bloated beast that is the EU.

It is not really a hard concept. Work to look after your own. Or work to feed a monster that continually needs vast amounts of money.

So you're a tax evader, cool, the UK needs more of those! It might have been better to simply say your reason for being here is sex, that's more acceptable these days.

I am here and have been on and off for 23 years. I started paying income tax as a 15 year old in 1959. Now I have retired and 7 years after my retirement I am STILL paying income tax due to my forethought in getting 2 extra pensions as well as the state pension.

I also get less of a state pension after paying in for 44 years than a lot of people who only paid in for 30 or 36 years.

Do you think that is fair and reasonable?

You say you "paid in" for 44 years and others who "paid in" for 30 years may get more than you (state pension).

When you say "paid in" you really mean you paid National Insurance contributions and payment of them is not discretionary, you cannot simply stop paying when you think you've paid enough or when you think your state pension is at a level where you want it to be. The rules regarding the number of years required for a full state pension change over time and many of us now find ourselves receiving less than people younger than us, such is life I'm afraid. But NI contributions do not cover just state pension hence whilst I am sympathetic I do not fully understand what you think the problem is.

As regards paying tax vs the various pensions you have: it sounds as though professional financial planning prior to retirement may have helped you because regardless of whether the income is pensions, salary or investment income, if it arises onshore it is UK taxable, subject to the personal allowance exemption. Perhaps some of those pensions you mention should have been offshored an/or you made yourself non-resident for tax purposes, dunno, it's hard to be precise without looking at all the details and factors.

Do I think it's fair and reasonable you ask, I think it's unfortunate and perhaps could have been avoided but I do know it was not the fault of the Eu and probably not the fault of the UK government either.

[dick dasterdly]

Post by kiwiaussie

Ps. I'll gloat about my machevellian insight to you all Friday morning when we have the count.

Who's the "we", Kimo Sabe? It seems you are an antipodean. The Brexit vote doesn't concern you.

Moreover, you flatter yourself if you think you have Machiavellian attributes.

Moreover, not the spelling of Machiavelli!

...and that is not the spelling of Kemo Sabe !

Obama wants you guys over there to settle down, gaddamitt.

Thanks for your input, Cowboy.

There is no correct spelling for Kimo Sabe (Kemo Sabe, Kemoh Sabeeh) because Native Americans did not have a written language,

so a phonetic spelling is absolutely in order.

Please thank POTUS for his conern.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The phonetic reference is Ke-mo sah-bee. There is no prior reference to Kimo Sabe, which is your invention. Yet again a member of the BREXIT team fails to conduct even minimal prior research.

Here's a message from Tonto for several forum members of the BREXIT team: "You have the tongue and courage of a coyote. You speak much but say nothing." (from The Lost City of Gold)

Good grief - how pathetic can the 'arguments' get??

[SgtRock]

Donald Tusk. President of the European Council

Tusk says EU needs to take 'long, hard look' at why it is unpopular

Donald Tusk, president of the European council, has issued a direct appeal to British voters to remain in the EU. Speaking on a visit to Portugal, he said the whole Western world would become weaker if Britain voted for Brexit.

I would like to appeal to the British citizens, on behalf, I know that for a fact, of almost all Europeans and European leaders: Stay with us.

Without you, not only Europe, but the whole Western community will become weaker. Together, we will be able to cope with increasingly difficult challenges of the future.

Tusk will chair a summit of EU leaders in Brussels next week and he said they were prepared for what might happen.

In no way are we downplaying the economic costs that would accompany Brexit ... I have no doubt, however, that we are already prepared for the day after the referendum.

He also said it was important for European leaders to consider why voters were getting disillusioned with the EU, not just in Britain but across the continent too.

Whatever [the referendum] result is going to be, we must take a long, hard look on the future of the Union. We would be foolish if we ignored such a warning signal as the UK referendum. There are more signals of dissatisfaction with the Union coming from all of Europe, not only from the UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/20/eu-referendum-live-warsi-leave-parliament-recalled-jo-cox

Too late Tusk.

As much as I dislike Cameron, that abortion of an excuse that you sent him scuttling back to the UK under the guise of a '' Deal '' showed the EU up for exactly what it is.

Do you really think people are going to believe you now.

[Mosha]

Checked to day and Poll of Polls has a dead heat with 12% undecided. If the remain win by say 1 or 2 % or exit win, but Parliament pull a fast one, and the UK stays in the free market, and therefore has to pay what we pay now. Expect UKIP s share of the vote to rise at the next election. Labour have lost touch with the working class. Corbyn included.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mosha

[Grouse]

Greetings, ladies!

Did you miss me?

I've been hedging in case the lunatics got their way! OK, it's going to cost me a lot but I won't be severely damaged in case of Brexit

However, it looks like the sensible if silent majority are awakening. Betting is 3:1 against Brexit!

Baroness Warsi said it correctly. Too much hate and Xenophobia. Coupled with Gove's (he's a bit odd) blatant lies about Turkey. As a result, she's moved to remain

Did you see the car companies wading in? All pro EU. For reasons we've been trying to explain but with little success!

I worry what will happen to my personal spell checker after Thirsday?

[Grouse]

Actually, I'm much more relaxed

The way I see it, if Brexit prevails, it will prove that England is not a country I wish to be associated with

All this football hooliganism again and the embarrassing scenes at Mediterranean resorts. How embarrassing

I was looking at UK demographics and noted that between 1990 and 2008, the proportion of ABC1s was increasing. I don't have current data but I think the trend has reversed. I think there has been a surge in C2DE.

I put it down to poor secondary education.

I shall be in England to vote on Thursday but will then move on to other parts of Europe for a holiday.

[Grouse]

I was really upset about poor Jo Cox

A real heroine!

Great that the by-election will not be contested.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

GBP is gaining more than any day since 2008 vs. USD....put a fork in it, Brexit is done, for now.

[Eclipse]

Yep. The vote will be to stay and GBP will continue to rise.

Good news for us all.

[dick dasterdly]

Actually, I'm much more relaxed

The way I see it, if Brexit prevails, it will prove that England is not a country I wish to be associated with

All this football hooliganism again and the embarrassing scenes at Mediterranean resorts. How embarrassing

I was looking at UK demographics and noted that between 1990 and 2008, the proportion of ABC1s was increasing. I don't have current data but I think the trend has reversed. I think there has been a surge in C2DE.

I put it down to poor secondary education.

I shall be in England to vote on Thursday but will then move on to other parts of Europe for a holiday.

Lucky you for maintaining the 'rosy glow' about Britain/England..

I realised a decade ago that I had no time for Brit. politicians. Actually, I realised long before - but was only able to leave a decade ago.

[Mosha]

Greetings, ladies!

Did you miss me?

I've been hedging in case the lunatics got their way! OK, it's going to cost me a lot but I won't be severely damaged in case of Brexit

However, it looks like the sensible if silent majority are awakening. Betting is 3:1 against Brexit!

Baroness Warsi said it correctly. Too much hate and Xenophobia. Coupled with Gove's (he's a bit odd) blatant lies about Turkey. As a result, she's moved to remain

Did you see the car companies wading in? All pro EU. For reasons we've been trying to explain but with little success!

I worry what will happen to my personal spell checker after Thirsday?

She was never part of the campaign. Not well liked in her home town, considered 2 faced. You know she's one of those people you hate don't you?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[SheungWan]

Daily Mail poll now suggesting 45% remain 42% leave.

Ladbrokes reporting that 95% of the betting today going on Remain.

Edited June 20, 2016 by SheungWan

[Mosha]

I was really upset about poor Jo Cox

A real heroine!

Great that the by-election will not be contested.

Wrong Liberty GB are putting someone up.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[nontabury]

I thought most of the guys in Thailand were here because they had definitively written off all the talent in the UK......

Out of the Brits that I know here in Thailand. One of the reasons they are here is because we refuse to throw huge amounts of tax and NI contributions into a system that feeds the bloated beast that is the EU.

It is not really a hard concept. Work to look after your own. Or work to feed a monster that continually needs vast amounts of money.

So you're a tax evader, cool, the UK needs more of those! It might have been better to simply say your reason for being here is sex, that's more acceptable these days.

I am here and have been on and off for 23 years. I started paying income tax as a 15 year old in 1959. Now I have retired and 7 years after my retirement I am STILL paying income tax due to my forethought in getting 2 extra pensions as well as the state pension.

I also get less of a state pension after paying in for 44 years than a lot of people who only paid in for 30 or 36 years.

Do you think that is fair and reasonable?

Another reason to loathe the Brit. govt. rather than the EU.

Correct,except this policy of freezing Some pensioners pensions was referred to one of the European courts,who judged and upheld the British governments unfair policy, in spite of the fact that some of those judges represented countries where they treat all their pensioners the same,irrespective of where they live.

What does this prove? only that the lawmakers in both the EU and Westministers are of the same sub-standard.

The major point being that we are able to throw out our UK elected government. Unfortunately this we cannot do with the EU commissioners.

[nontabury]

Greetings, ladies!

Did you miss me?

I've been hedging in case the lunatics got their way! OK, it's going to cost me a lot but I won't be severely damaged in case of Brexit

However, it looks like the sensible if silent majority are awakening. Betting is 3:1 against Brexit!

Baroness Warsi said it correctly. Too much hate and Xenophobia. Coupled with Gove's (he's a bit odd) blatant lies about Turkey. As a result, she's moved to remain

Did you see the car companies wading in? All pro EU. For reasons we've been trying to explain but with little success!

I worry what will happen to my personal spell checker after Thirsday?

Noticed you reading this thread throughout the week, without joining in,when it looked like Brexit was certain to win. Same as Keeping your head down in the trenches, while your mates defend your patch. Now when it looks like it may be a close call, you lead the charge in the hope of gaining all the glory.

[Grouse]

Greetings, ladies!

Did you miss me?

I've been hedging in case the lunatics got their way! OK, it's going to cost me a lot but I won't be severely damaged in case of Brexit

However, it looks like the sensible if silent majority are awakening. Betting is 3:1 against Brexit!

Baroness Warsi said it correctly. Too much hate and Xenophobia. Coupled with Gove's (he's a bit odd) blatant lies about Turkey. As a result, she's moved to remain

Did you see the car companies wading in? All pro EU. For reasons we've been trying to explain but with little success!

I worry what will happen to my personal spell checker after Thirsday?

She was never part of the campaign. Not well liked in her home town, considered 2 faced. You know she's one of those people you hate don't you?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I don't hate anybody.

She gave a great interview today, explains that she wanted a positive Brexit campaign - hello world, she called it

Actually, we share something. We both understand that this is a complex issue. There are pros and cons

BUT it's hatred and loathing that has lost it for the Brexiteers.

[Orac]

I thought most of the guys in Thailand were here because they had definitively written off all the talent in the UK......

Out of the Brits that I know here in Thailand. One of the reasons they are here is because we refuse to throw huge amounts of tax and NI contributions into a system that feeds the bloated beast that is the EU.

It is not really a hard concept. Work to look after your own. Or work to feed a monster that continually needs vast amounts of money.

So you're a tax evader, cool, the UK needs more of those! It might have been better to simply say your reason for being here is sex, that's more acceptable these days.

I am here and have been on and off for 23 years. I started paying income tax as a 15 year old in 1959. Now I have retired and 7 years after my retirement I am STILL paying income tax due to my forethought in getting 2 extra pensions as well as the state pension.

I also get less of a state pension after paying in for 44 years than a lot of people who only paid in for 30 or 36 years.

Do you think that is fair and reasonable?

Another reason to loathe the Brit. govt. rather than the EU.

Correct,except this policy of freezing Some pensioners pensions was referred to one of the European courts,who judged and upheld the British governments unfair policy, in spite of the fact that some of those judges represented countries where they treat all their pensioners the same,irrespective of where they live.

What does this prove? only that the lawmakers in both the EU and Westministers are of the same sub-standard.

The major point being that we are able to throw out our UK elected government. Unfortunately this we cannot do with the EU commissioners.

Shocking that the European courts would fail to overide a decision by the UK government and dictate to to us what we should do.

[Grouse]

Greetings, ladies!

Did you miss me?

I've been hedging in case the lunatics got their way! OK, it's going to cost me a lot but I won't be severely damaged in case of Brexit

However, it looks like the sensible if silent majority are awakening. Betting is 3:1 against Brexit!

Baroness Warsi said it correctly. Too much hate and Xenophobia. Coupled with Gove's (he's a bit odd) blatant lies about Turkey. As a result, she's moved to remain

Did you see the car companies wading in? All pro EU. For reasons we've been trying to explain but with little success!

I worry what will happen to my personal spell checker after Thirsday?

Noticed you reading this thread throughout the week, without joining in,when it looked like Brexit was certain to win. Same as Keeping your head down in the trenches, while your mates defend your patch. Now when it looks like it may be a close call, you lead the charge in the hope of gaining all the glory.

I was suspended, I suspect, for being "unkind" to you and others!

So, wrong AND unpleasant again!

Laughable really ?

Are you going back to vote? Or are you letting others "defend your patch"

Edited June 20, 2016 by Grouse

[RuamRudy]

Greetings, ladies!

Did you miss me?

I've been hedging in case the lunatics got their way! OK, it's going to cost me a lot but I won't be severely damaged in case of Brexit

However, it looks like the sensible if silent majority are awakening. Betting is 3:1 against Brexit!

Baroness Warsi said it correctly. Too much hate and Xenophobia. Coupled with Gove's (he's a bit odd) blatant lies about Turkey. As a result, she's moved to remain

Did you see the car companies wading in? All pro EU. For reasons we've been trying to explain but with little success!

I worry what will happen to my personal spell checker after Thirsday?

She was never part of the campaign. Not well liked in her home town, considered 2 faced. You know she's one of those people you hate don't you?

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

I don't hate anybody.

She gave a great interview today, explains that she wanted a positive Brexit campaign - hello world, she called it

Actually, we share something. We both understand that this is a complex issue. There are pros and cons

BUT it's hatred and loathing that has lost it for the Brexiteers.

What I don't buy is how easily she turned. The fundamental principles between Remain and Leave are so great that her previous position could surely not have been based on ideological grounds. I am sure that most people on both sides wished for a positive campaign - do you simply ditch your political convictions because you don't like some of your fellow supporters? Surely the more believable approach would be to put clear water between you and them, but stand for what you believe in - unless you never really believed in it in the first place.

[chiang mai]

I am here and have been on and off for 23 years. I started paying income tax as a 15 year old in 1959. Now I have retired and 7 years after my retirement I am STILL paying income tax due to my forethought in getting 2 extra pensions as well as the state pension.

I also get less of a state pension after paying in for 44 years than a lot of people who only paid in for 30 or 36 years.

Do you think that is fair and reasonable?

Another reason to loathe the Brit. govt. rather than the EU.

Correct,except this policy of freezing Some pensioners pensions was referred to one of the European courts,who judged and upheld the British governments unfair policy, in spite of the fact that some of those judges represented countries where they treat all their pensioners the same,irrespective of where they live.

What does this prove? only that the lawmakers in both the EU and Westministers are of the same sub-standard.

The major point being that we are able to throw out our UK elected government. Unfortunately this we cannot do with the EU commissioners.

I ask you, is this something that is part of any sensible debate amongst adults, it looks more like the results of playtime for the under tens what ever happened to setting out your views and opinions for people to read and challenge rather than this garbage! Yet we get this on every page at least once, it's akin to little Jonnie saying, here mum, look what I did today, pathetic.