Clinton’s former IT aide to plead the Fifth in email-related lawsuit

[Publicus]

The wet dreams of the right.

[joespnet]

Ignore the right wing troll. I suspect in the email case, they are covering up, but this is my opinion. Having been faced with a grand jury hearing in a purely political case, Gainesville 8+4, I, along with my fellow co-conspirators refused to testify even after given "use immunity". Use immunity means the government cannot use your EXACT words against you and is in fact "useless immunity". I do not fault any American for using the 5th, I certainly did along with several other Constitutional Amendments that applied. We went to jail for contempt, Justice William O. Douglas (we had a real Supreme Court then) said set these men free. I still have the prized document. The trial was a complete bullcrap case. The jury was only out an hour and NOT GUILTY. Members of the jury, including the foreperson attended our reunions. So understanding more than most, I still believe he did the right thing.

sgtsabai,

thank you for sharing your important story. Were you one of the original "Gainsville 8" or were you one of those subpoenaed for testimony before the Grand Jury who were jailed for invoking your 5th amendment rights?

For those not familiar, the Gainsville 8 were loyal Vietnam veterans who formed a plan to demonstrate peacefully against the war during the 1972 Republican National Convention. The government infiltrated their membership and it was later shown that the government informants were the ones trying to incite the group to violence in order to bring charges against them. At trial, the "8" were quickly found not guilty. Another group of people were subpoenaed by the government to give testimony to a Grand Jury, and some of them invoked their 5th Amendment right, and they were found in contempt of court, and some of them were jailed for refusing to give testimony. Those were dark days in America. (sgtsabai, please correct my recollection of this if I have any of it wrong.)

Invoking a right is not an admission of guilt.

I suspect the IT aide in the Clinton e-mail investigation is invoking his 5th Amendment right (and also seeking to prevent video recording of him doing so) in order to prevent his words and video from being used in campaign advertisements against his former boss.

[iReason]

Dunno.

What's worse?

The 5th?

Or the definition of a failed "business" man who bankrupts out 4 times.?

And, what a loser you have to be to crap out with sure fire winners like Casinos?

[Publicus]

If Hillary has broken the law, will the FBI indict her?

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

(a Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so takes and carries away any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing, filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(b Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. As used in this subsection, the term “office” does not include the office held by any person as a retired officer of the Armed Forces of the United States.

If Hillary is guilty she cannot run for the Presidency.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2071

This is an old and worn tactic.

Recite a law.

Doesn't matter no one has been charged under any law. Doesn't matter which law is read either. Just read out a law. Any law.

Doesn't matter there isn't a grand jury. Doesn't matter there is no special prosecutor or no prosecution occurring. Doesn't matter HRC hasn't even appeared in a court in all of this right wing inquisition.

Read the Riot Act regardless, even if there's no riot and no one is listening or even paying attention. Others prefer to throw in the word 'felon'.

Trump is a fraud and so are certain others.

[arjunadawn]

Dunno.

What's worse?

The 5th?

Or the definition of a failed "business" man who bankrupts out 4 times.?

And, what a loser you have to be to crap out with sure fire winners like Casinos?

By definition, he shares guilt as responding would incriminate him, though not to the level of charging. By taking the 5th one most have a responsible chance of being charged for what's stated. Not talking only withholds the self evidence, in this case maybe avoiding charges. But it necessarily means some guilt.

If a man had 4 business and 4 failures it's a black eye. 8 and that's 50% success or failure. Anything above 8 businesses is better than chance. Since all business is risk, and chance is 50%, and Trump has more then 8 businesses, I'd say the 5th is worse.

[chuckd]

How in hell can anybody in their right mind, oh hell-yep right mind, try correct mind, believe anything that comes out of lying bratbart web? "use immunity", "use immunity" means the government cannot use your EXACT words against you and is in fact "useless immunity". "Open the door" and you loose that. Do some of you not understand anything? Only a fool believes they have "immunity" under use immunity and that is all that is given and has been for many years. Besides, this is a deposition, been through those before. One has to be very, very careful to not "open the door" and put themselves at risk. Damn right wingnuts, learn something about the law. I used to teach a class on how to be interviewed by the fumbling bureau of idiots. ID yourself if asked, answer no, none, nada, zip questions, do not, repeat do not let in your house, lock door behind you, ask them to leave, call an attorney, call the local cops if they refuse to leave. Oh it was the fbi that taught me interview's and interrogations. Scary, flat out scary.

You have no idea what level of immunity Pagliano was granted.

He may have been granted either Blanket immunity or Use immunity. Just because all you were offered was Use immunity doesn't mean that's what Pagliano was offered.

You really don't know any more than the rest of us so why not wait and see what sorts out. His continued use of the Fifth Amendment would not be affected since this is a FOIA deposition and immunity would not come into play on it.

Let's see what happens if a Federal Grand Jury is impaneled. It is certainly deserving of one.

Edited June 3, 2016 by chuckd

[Pinot]

How in hell can anybody in their right mind, oh hell-yep right mind, try correct mind, believe anything that comes out of lying bratbart web? "use immunity", "use immunity" means the government cannot use your EXACT words against you and is in fact "useless immunity". "Open the door" and you loose that. Do some of you not understand anything? Only a fool believes they have "immunity" under use immunity and that is all that is given and has been for many years. Besides, this is a deposition, been through those before. One has to be very, very careful to not "open the door" and put themselves at risk. Damn right wingnuts, learn something about the law. I used to teach a class on how to be interviewed by the fumbling bureau of idiots. ID yourself if asked, answer no, none, nada, zip questions, do not, repeat do not let in your house, lock door behind you, ask them to leave, call an attorney, call the local cops if they refuse to leave. Oh it was the fbi that taught me interview's and interrogations. Scary, flat out scary.

You have no idea what level of immunity Pagliano was granted.

He may have been granted either Blanket immunity or Use immunity. Just because all you were offered was Use immunity doesn't mean that's what Pagliano was offered.

You really don't know any more than the rest of us so why not wait and see what sorts out. His continued use of the Fifth Amendment would not be affected since this is a FOIA deposition and immunity would not come into play on it.

Let's see what happens if a Federal Grand Jury is impaneled. It is certainly deserving of one.

Deserving, chuck?

I can't remember back to any point when I actually cared about any aspect of this issue and neither does the public.

I know you and the rest of the lemmings are hanging your hats on this but...I'm telling you man, nobody gives a shit. Why? Because nobody gives a shit.

Nothing happened

[mopar71]

Pagliano wants to plead the 5th because he was probably reminded what Hillary did to this guy...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/1/ronald-kessler-how-hillary-clinton-triggered-vince/?page=1

Edited June 3, 2016 by mopar71

[mopar71]

And it's gotten to this boys...

Rasmussen Poll: 71% of Democrats Say Clinton Should Run Even if Under Felony Indictment…

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/may_2016/50_say_clinton_should_keep_running_even_if_indicted

Pretty sad commentary on the lack of ethics among Democrats, eh?

Scott Rasmussen had to quit the polling organisation he founded because of its hard driven Republican bias.

Nothing has changed there since.

This is a heavily Republican party "pollster" polling Democrats

I'm surprised Rasmussen didn't find 120% of Democrats favor the question.

OK, let's take our own poll. How many of you Hillary supporters here think she should keep running for president IF she is indicted?

Don't answer all at once.

[Publicus]

Pagliano wants to plead the 5th because he was probably reminded what Hillary did to this guy...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/1/ronald-kessler-how-hillary-clinton-triggered-vince/?page=1

You went so far afield on that one that you went off topic, which is the guy invoking his Constitutional right not to be required to testify against himself.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Publicus

[Publicus]

And it's gotten to this boys...

Rasmussen Poll: 71% of Democrats Say Clinton Should Run Even if Under Felony Indictment…

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/may_2016/50_say_clinton_should_keep_running_even_if_indicted

Pretty sad commentary on the lack of ethics among Democrats, eh?

Scott Rasmussen had to quit the polling organisation he founded because of its hard driven Republican bias.

Nothing has changed there since.

This is a heavily Republican party "pollster" polling Democrats

I'm surprised Rasmussen didn't find 120% of Democrats favor the question.

OK, let's take our own poll. How many of you Hillary supporters here think she should keep running for president IF she is indicted?

Don't answer all at once.

Poll rightwingers and other Republicans since it is their wet dream. It is their concoction and their, well, wet dream.

Leave Democrats and others not on the far right out of your fantasy constructs. Youse guyz want to serve your own fantasies youse have your own poll on the question.

Did I mention btw Rasmussen is a discredited Republican biased hack.

[bassman]

Pagliano has been given limited immunity for his cooperation in the ongoing criminal investigation by the FBI and Justice Dept. for the current Clinton scandal.

“Counsel for Mr. Pagliano shall file a Memorandum of Law addressing the legal authority upon which Mr. Pagliano relies to assert his Fifth Amendment rights in this civil proceeding, including requisite details pertaining to the scope of Mr. Pagliano’s reported immunity agreement with the Government,” Sullivan ruled on Friday

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/03/judge-orders-bryan-pagliano-to-produce-immunity-agreement-with-justice-department/#ixzz4AYyF3sft

Remember that this is a civil proceeding brought about because Clinton and her staff did not confirm to FOIA laws. The criminal part could well be coming soon. Judge Sullivan, appointed by Bill Clinton has been skeptical about State Dept. honesty on this issue. Additionally, all Pagliano emails are missing from State Dept. records.

Hillary in not only running to be president...she is also running from jail.

[slipperylobster]

I expect fbi will charge her under espionage laws after the convention. She lied to investigators and her ignorant voters as well. Hindering an investigation and showing contempt. She is grossly negligent in sharing government secrets with the world, and destroying emails that are not her property.

If you want to see how unfair and corrupt the democrats are then watch Obama give her a presidential pardon after the convention.....

This will be done as a deal arrangement whereby she enters a guilty as charged plea.

Uncaring democrats will foolishly follow the crowd and vote for her anyways.

Nothing worse than a democrat who violates rules and still squeaks by.

The whole affair is foul.

Edited June 4, 2016 by slipperylobster

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

Other posts containing intentional aberrant misspellings with the intent of trolling have been removed.

[Publicus]

Pagliano has been given limited immunity for his cooperation in the ongoing criminal investigation by the FBI and Justice Dept. for the current Clinton scandal.

“Counsel for Mr. Pagliano shall file a Memorandum of Law addressing the legal authority upon which Mr. Pagliano relies to assert his Fifth Amendment rights in this civil proceeding, including requisite details pertaining to the scope of Mr. Pagliano’s reported immunity agreement with the Government,” Sullivan ruled on Friday

http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/03/judge-orders-bryan-pagliano-to-produce-immunity-agreement-with-justice-department/#ixzz4AYyF3sft

Remember that this is a civil proceeding brought about because Clinton and her staff did not confirm to FOIA laws. The criminal part could well be coming soon. Judge Sullivan, appointed by Bill Clinton has been skeptical about State Dept. honesty on this issue. Additionally, all Pagliano emails are missing from State Dept. records.

Hillary in not only running to be president...she is also running from jail.

Mr. Pagliano is invoking the Fifth Amendment in respect of himself and no one else on the earth or under it.

The quote cited in the post says what it says.

The post itself is wish, hope, prayer and above else not provable. Former SecState Clinton is not in court nor is there a grand jury nor is there a prosecutor nor do the rightwhingenuts care. They say what they like to say and want to say.

The judge btw was initially appointed by President Reagan then advanced later by President Bill Clinton. Unlike Donald Trump, former SecState Clinton has not criticised a Federal Judge or the Federal Judiciary, nor will she attack and criticise the Federal Judiciary.

Say what one will against Hillary Cinton, she is not a wild radical crackpot ignoramus. Trump and the Trumpfanboyz are.

It is moreover highly unlikely former SecState Clinton would be charged under the Espionage Act (as if she were a Chinese spy). Reality is that the Espionage Act was not written to prosecute those who have served in the cabinet of any Potus.

The right as always needs facts not the extremist political rhetoric of wish dreams.

[NovaBlue05]

I expect fbi will charge her under espionage laws after the convention. She lied to investigators and her ignorant voters as well. Hindering an investigation and showing contempt. She is grossly negligent in sharing government secrets with the world, and destroying emails that are not her property.

If you want to see how unfair and corrupt the democrats are then watch Obama give her a presidential pardon after the convention.....

This will be done as a deal arrangement whereby she enters a guilty as charged plea.

Uncaring democrats will foolishly follow the crowd and vote for her anyways.

Nothing worse than a democrat who violates rules and still squeaks by.

The whole affair is foul.

She is frantically sprinting to get to the White House door and lock it behind her at least one step ahead of the FBI. Maybe she figures she can give herself a Presidential pardon then

[mrwebb8825]

So, 1st he was going to cooperate and NOW he's not. You don't need to be a cat to smell a rat. Maybe she's hoping to get in office in time to pardon herself. Do you think "Side-Stepping Laws" was 1 of her $250,000 speeches she gave on Wall Street?

[Publicus]

....oh good.

A hillary thread.

Burn, Baby...........Burn !!!!

Wrong again.

The thread and topic is Mr. Pagliano and his invoking the Fifth Amendment.

The drooling to misdirect the thread and topic into a "Hillary thread" is off base. The OP is about the guy, the Fifth Amendment, the emails server. HRC is not in court nor has HRC invoked the Fifth nor has she ever said or indicated she would apply the Fifth Amendment.

It is not a "Hillary thread."

As someone else had posted, there were a total of 12 lawyers in the room in respect of Mr. Pagliano's decision which means the far out right in its political pursuits have got itself into a legal tangle of immense proportions. Which means the whole thing is far from legally clear cut, predictable, forthright, or based in any law that would be clear, direct, decisive.

[Boon Mee]

More damning evidence of malfeasence at the State Dept from Crooked Hillary:

Hillary Clinton Posted Names of Hidden Intelligence Officials On Her Email

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/06/02/hillary-clinton-exchanged-cia-officers-names-private-server/

Why isn't this woman in jail yet???

[hawker9000]

Ah yes. The Flight Plan is clear now. I just knew the resolution to Hillary's problems would come with hanging some poor subordinate slob out to dry. What else!

[OMGImInPattaya]

Why is this not surprise? Were back in Bubbaland already...sleeze, lying to Congress, "cigars" in the Oval Office, suicides of cabinet officers, blue-dresses, cover ups...and The Pansuit's not even in office yet.

[Publicus]

Ah yes. The Flight Plan is clear now. I just knew the resolution to Hillary's problems would come with hanging some poor subordinate slob out to dry. What else!

In this instance the Fifth Amendment protects the citizen against the far right in the government.

Which is why the extreme right during recent years has come to hate and to have contempt of the Fifth Amendment, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. Trump is only a newcomer to this and the politics of it. Trump is a babe in the woods as an actual politician.

Which is why Trump believes he can turn the right in to winners. Make the whinge great again. With Trump leading 'em it is in fact the right hanging itself out to dry.

[Andaman Al]

Why is this not surprise? Were back in Bubbaland already...sleeze, lying to Congress, "cigars" in the Oval Office, suicides of cabinet officers, blue-dresses, cover ups...and The Pansuit's not even in office yet.

Well Cigars , blow Jobs and emails have to be a lot better than sending 8 thousand sons and daughters of the USA to their deaths since 2003 with 52000 servicemen and women injured - many very badly and lets not forget the deaths of a million innocent civilians. Lets get some perspective on things, maybe what HC did 'could have, would have' caused problems but the fact is nothing happened so we learn, we tighten procedures and we get over it. The Witch hunt is incredible. I will submit to the Republicans will on HC if they submit to put George W Bush in front of a war crimes court and to permit a proper investigation of 9/11 (which received far less time and far less money than HC's email issue.) The whole thing is pathetic beyond belief.

[halloween]

I expect fbi will charge her under espionage laws after the convention. She lied to investigators and her ignorant voters as well. Hindering an investigation and showing contempt. She is grossly negligent in sharing government secrets with the world, and destroying emails that are not her property.

If you want to see how unfair and corrupt the democrats are then watch Obama give her a presidential pardon after the convention.....

This will be done as a deal arrangement whereby she enters a guilty as charged plea.

Uncaring democrats will foolishly follow the crowd and vote for her anyways.

Nothing worse than a democrat who violates rules and still squeaks by.

The whole affair is foul.

She is frantically sprinting to get to the White House door and lock it behind her at least one step ahead of the FBI. Maybe she figures she can give herself a Presidential pardon then

Just think, if the US had the party list system, he could end up in congress.

[slipperylobster]

....oh good.

A hillary thread.

Burn, Baby...........Burn !!!!

Wrong again.

The thread and topic is Mr. Pagliano and his invoking the Fifth Amendment.

The drooling to misdirect the thread and topic into a "Hillary thread" is off base. The OP is about the guy, the Fifth Amendment, the emails server. HRC is not in court nor has HRC invoked the Fifth nor has she ever said or indicated she would apply the Fifth Amendment.

It is not a "Hillary thread."

As someone else had posted, there were a total of 12 lawyers in the room in respect of Mr. Pagliano's decision which means the far out right in its political pursuits have got itself into a legal tangle of immense proportions. Which means the whole thing is far from legally clear cut, predictable, forthright, or based in any law that would be clear, direct, decisive.

Wrong again and again.

It is a Hillary Thread. She committed the crimes and ordered the cover up.

How in the daggum world can an email server....directed to be put in place by Hillary...not be related to Hillary?

She instigated the cover up and the people involved are following Hillary's instructions...as they assume she will be the next President (and their boss)

Your misdirection is hillaryous.

Just an example...

If I bring a weapon to your house knowing you will be using it to shoot somebody...then I cover up the story....well...

obviously it concerns not just me...but you.

Hillary Thread....for sure. Cannot talk about any email server or emails without mentioning the perpetrator.

She ordered the cover up.

Read the first name in the topic of this thread (Cinton...aka Hillary)...again. Hillary....Hillary...Hillary

Edited June 4, 2016 by slipperylobster

[Chicog]

How come "Judicial Watch" missed the Dennis Hastert paedophile story?

You'd think an organisation this "ethical" would have been all over him like a cheap suit.


Oh.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Chicog

[NovaBlue05]

Ah yes. The Flight Plan is clear now. I just knew the resolution to Hillary's problems would come with hanging some poor subordinate slob out to dry. What else!

She's got a team of lackeys lined up at the station waiting to get thrown under the next train. The media will admire them for their integrity in standing up to the "right wing conspiracy"

[NovaBlue05]

How come "Judicial Watch" missed the Dennis Hastert paedophile story?

You'd think an organisation this "ethical" would have been all over him like a cheap suit.

Oh.

Hastert's case was adjudicated and frankly, he wasn't positioned to be the next POTUS

[mopar71]

....oh good.

A hillary thread.

Burn, Baby...........Burn !!!!

Wrong again.

The thread and topic is Mr. Pagliano and his invoking the Fifth Amendment.

The drooling to misdirect the thread and topic into a "Hillary thread" is off base. The OP is about the guy, the Fifth Amendment, the emails server. HRC is not in court nor has HRC invoked the Fifth nor has she ever said or indicated she would apply the Fifth Amendment.

It is not a "Hillary thread."

As someone else had posted, there were a total of 12 lawyers in the room in respect of Mr. Pagliano's decision which means the far out right in its political pursuits have got itself into a legal tangle of immense proportions. Which means the whole thing is far from legally clear cut, predictable, forthright, or based in any law that would be clear, direct, decisive.

This thread has nothing to do with Hillary? Now that is delusional.

[NovaBlue05]

Why is this not surprise? Were back in Bubbaland already...sleeze, lying to Congress, "cigars" in the Oval Office, suicides of cabinet officers, blue-dresses, cover ups...and The Pansuit's not even in office yet.

Well Cigars , blow Jobs and emails have to be a lot better than sending 8 thousand sons and daughters of the USA to their deaths since 2003 with 52000 servicemen and women injured - many very badly and lets not forget the deaths of a million innocent civilians. Lets get some perspective on things, maybe what HC did 'could have, would have' caused problems but the fact is nothing happened so we learn, we tighten procedures and we get over it. The Witch hunt is incredible. I will submit to the Republicans will on HC if they submit to put George W Bush in front of a war crimes court and to permit a proper investigation of 9/11 (which received far less time and far less money than HC's email issue.) The whole thing is pathetic beyond belief.

...And Hillary's personal fear of damaging her re-electibility by appearing "soft on terror" along with others in Congress actually allowed the tragedy to happen when they could have stopped it.. Her current opponent however, voted his conscience.