Mitsubishi Triton Gearbox Problem

[edwinchester]

Hi. I have a Mitsubishi Triton, 2.5 4x4 manual gearbox, 200k km's. The last couple of times I have used 4 wheel drive it has been fine until I come to a sharp corner and slow to a crawl. It then seems as though the hand brake has been pulled on there is that much drag from what I assume is somewhere in the gearbox. The drag remains even driving in a straight line. Engaging 2 wheel drive and it runs sweet again.

Anyone have any clues?

[paulchiangmai]

I have had a lot of experience with this problem on tractors, this may or may not be applicable to your 4wd pickup, if the ratio between the front tyres and the rear is not correct loss of power is the result. Have you changed tyres ?

[Pomthai]

You are doing it wrong. 4x4 should only be used on loose surfaces not paved or tarmac with good traction.

In the most basic terms;

4x4 tries to have all 4 wheels rotating at the same speed. Therefore going around a corner becomes difficult if there is good traction / grip. The inner wheels during a corner have to travel less distance than the outer wheels. The momentum and weight of the vehicle try and rotate the outer wheels faster while the transfer case tries to prevent this differential in rotational speed - the end result is binding and the feeling of drag, this is literally the wheels being dragged across the ground. On loose gravel or mud for example, it doesn't matter on a grippy surface, you will probably break something if you keep at it.

Hope that helps.

For more detailed info on the whys- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.htmlhttp://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html

[paulchiangmai]

You are doing it wrong. 4x4 should only be used on loose surfaces not paved or tarmac with good traction.

In the most basic terms;

4x4 tries to have all 4 wheels rotating at the same speed. Therefore going around a corner becomes difficult if there is good traction / grip. The inner wheels during a corner have to travel less distance than the outer wheels. The momentum and weight of the vehicle try and rotate the outer wheels faster while the transfer case tries to prevent this differential in rotational speed - the end result is binding and the feeling of drag, this is literally the wheels being dragged across the ground. On loose gravel or mud for example, it doesn't matter on a grippy surface, you will probably break something if you keep at it.

Hope that helps.

For more detailed info on the whys- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.htmlhttp://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html

Pomthai, are you sure you understand the purpose of the differentials, these take care of any difference turning. My experience was with tractors where the front wheels, in 4wd, must turn fractionally faster ratio wise than the rear or you lost power, the ideal was for the front wheels to cover about 2 to 3 % more ground than the rears.

[norbra]

You are doing it wrong. 4x4 should only be used on loose surfaces not paved or tarmac with good traction.

In the most basic terms;

4x4 tries to have all 4 wheels rotating at the same speed. Therefore going around a corner becomes difficult if there is good traction / grip. The inner wheels during a corner have to travel less distance than the outer wheels. The momentum and weight of the vehicle try and rotate the outer wheels faster while the transfer case tries to prevent this differential in rotational speed - the end result is binding and the feeling of drag, this is literally the wheels being dragged across the ground. On loose gravel or mud for example, it doesn't matter on a grippy surface, you will probably break something if you keep at it.

Hope that helps.

For more detailed info on the whys- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.htmlhttp://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html

Pomthai, are you sure you understand the purpose of the differentials, these take care of any difference turning. My experience was with tractors where the front wheels, in 4wd, must turn fractionally faster ratio wise than the rear or you lost power, the ideal was for the front wheels to cover about 2 to 3 % more ground than the rears.

Phomthai is correct as this is the case with Isuzu 4x4 also

[Daz69]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

[edwinchester]

I have had a lot of experience with this problem on tractors, this may or may not be applicable to your 4wd pickup, if the ratio between the front tyres and the rear is not correct loss of power is the result. Have you changed tyres ?

Thanks for the reply. Tyres haven't been changed, using the recommended size on standard rims.

[edwinchester]

You are doing it wrong. 4x4 should only be used on loose surfaces not paved or tarmac with good traction.

In the most basic terms;

4x4 tries to have all 4 wheels rotating at the same speed. Therefore going around a corner becomes difficult if there is good traction / grip. The inner wheels during a corner have to travel less distance than the outer wheels. The momentum and weight of the vehicle try and rotate the outer wheels faster while the transfer case tries to prevent this differential in rotational speed - the end result is binding and the feeling of drag, this is literally the wheels being dragged across the ground. On loose gravel or mud for example, it doesn't matter on a grippy surface, you will probably break something if you keep at it.

Hope that helps.

For more detailed info on the whys- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.htmlhttp://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html

Hi thanks for the reply. I can see where you are coming from but when the problem occurs it remains even when driving in a straight line, the drag is very evident but disappears when 2 wheel is selected.

[Farma]

You still haven't said if this problem is happening on tarmac or hard surface which i highly suspect it is.

Keep driving in 4WD on hard surfaces and something will break.

[edwinchester]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

Didn't know that. Could the lack of central diff still explain the drag after a sharp corner but driving in a straight line?

[Pomthai]

You are doing it wrong. 4x4 should only be used on loose surfaces not paved or tarmac with good traction.

In the most basic terms;

4x4 tries to have all 4 wheels rotating at the same speed. Therefore going around a corner becomes difficult if there is good traction / grip. The inner wheels during a corner have to travel less distance than the outer wheels. The momentum and weight of the vehicle try and rotate the outer wheels faster while the transfer case tries to prevent this differential in rotational speed - the end result is binding and the feeling of drag, this is literally the wheels being dragged across the ground. On loose gravel or mud for example, it doesn't matter on a grippy surface, you will probably break something if you keep at it.

Hope that helps.

For more detailed info on the whys- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.htmlhttp://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html

Hi thanks for the reply. I can see where you are coming from but when the problem occurs it remains even when driving in a straight line, the drag is very evident but disappears when 2 wheel is selected.

That is because binding / tension has built up in the gearbox, this is released when going into 2wd. Its also the cause of some vehicles getting stuck in 4wd. A short sharp stint in reverse will often release this tension also.

[edwinchester]

You still haven't said if this problem is happening on tarmac or hard surface which i highly suspect it is.

Keep driving in 4WD on hard surfaces and something will break.

Yes it was on tarmac just after I'd pulled off a track.

[edwinchester]

You are doing it wrong. 4x4 should only be used on loose surfaces not paved or tarmac with good traction.

In the most basic terms;

4x4 tries to have all 4 wheels rotating at the same speed. Therefore going around a corner becomes difficult if there is good traction / grip. The inner wheels during a corner have to travel less distance than the outer wheels. The momentum and weight of the vehicle try and rotate the outer wheels faster while the transfer case tries to prevent this differential in rotational speed - the end result is binding and the feeling of drag, this is literally the wheels being dragged across the ground. On loose gravel or mud for example, it doesn't matter on a grippy surface, you will probably break something if you keep at it.

Hope that helps.

For more detailed info on the whys- http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.htmlhttp://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/def_turnpart.html

Hi thanks for the reply. I can see where you are coming from but when the problem occurs it remains even when driving in a straight line, the drag is very evident but disappears when 2 wheel is selected.

That is because binding / tension has built up in the gearbox, this is released when going into 2wd. Its also the cause of some vehicles getting stuck in 4wd. A short sharp stint in reverse will often release this tension also.

Gotcha! Thanks for the lesson

[Daz69]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

Didn't know that. Could the lack of central diff still explain the drag after a sharp corner but driving in a straight line?

Absolutely yes,the central diff or even a viscous coupling as fitted on some vehicles allows for speed variations between the front and rear drive system,same as the diff does that is fitted onto the front /rear axle. The only way to allow your vehicle to drive in a permanent 4wd state without damaging the gearbox due to binding is to have the rear propshaft modified with the fitment of a viscous coupling.I have seen this done on the older FJ series Landcruisers and Hilux 4x4 by serious off road enthusiasts.Usually fitting the viscous coupling that came fitted to the old Celica GT 4wd,it requires some major engineering work but propshaft specialists can do this....if you can locate a viscous coupling....good luck.

[Lantern]

When I did my Rural fire Service 4WD course they showed us a front hub that had completely disintegrated from using 4WD on a tar surface.

With the intention of scarring the s*it out of us, by letting us know what would happen to us if we were ever so stupid.

(I'm not calling the OP stupid, cos I wouldn't have known either if not being taught)

What they did tell us that if for any reason it's unavoidable, just run your two inside wheels off into the gravel to the side of the tar every 50 meters or so, to let the tension unwind.

[off road pat]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

Didn't know that. Could the lack of central diff still explain the drag after a sharp corner but driving in a straight line?

Absolutely yes,the central diff or even a viscous coupling as fitted on some vehicles allows for speed variations between the front and rear drive system,same as the diff does that is fitted onto the front /rear axle. The only way to allow your vehicle to drive in a permanent 4wd state without damaging the gearbox due to binding is to have the rear propshaft modified with the fitment of a viscous coupling.I have seen this done on the older FJ series Landcruisers and Hilux 4x4 by serious off road enthusiasts.Usually fitting the viscous coupling that came fitted to the old Celica GT 4wd,it requires some major engineering work but propshaft specialists can do this....if you can locate a viscous coupling....good luck.

This is what I like in TV,...sometimes there is some good professional and interesting information.....I learned a couple of things THX....

A change from the usual justified or not Thai bashing....

Thank you very much Daz69, Pomthai and the others....

Best regards.

Off Road Pat

[Ace of Pop]

Over the years ive found remembering to engage them now n then the biggest prob cause Mr Average doesnt need it .Never used it much anyway till i got stuck on construction sites, thats twice in 20 years.

[soc]

With the older Landcruisers,as they had no 3rd Differential, if you drove in 4x4 on a hard surface for too long, you would get Differential wind up & it would be difficult to get the Transfer case out of 4 wheel drive.

As someone else remarked, it could be done by jogging the vehicle in reverse.

lf however you persisted in driving in 4x4 on a hard surface then the front of the Transfer Case would let go & crack & break just where the front Tailshaft(propshaft) comes out. The cases are aluminum, not as robust as the cast iron Gearbox.

When the front of the Transfer Case disintegrated, the front Tailshaft, being driven by the front Differential would flog around underneath & take out BOTH hydraulic brake lines(in a split front-rear system)ensuring that you had NO BRAKES either.

lf you were not traveling too fast then you could brake providing that your model of LandCruiser had a drum brake, parking brake at the rear of the Gearbox on the rear Tailshaft. Not all LandCruisers had this feature though.

l know this to be fact as l was a Mechanic with a large mining company & we had this happen 3 times with one particular Foreman's vehicle.

Edited June 6, 2016 by soc

[IMHO]

As Pomthai has covered, it's just diff wind-up.

The new Triton 4x4 (2014+) has Super Select II, which supports full-time 4x4 via a Torsen center diff though - which no other pickup in TH has or has had.

[Daz69]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

Didn't know that. Could the lack of central diff still explain the drag after a sharp corner but driving in a straight line?

Absolutely yes,the central diff or even a viscous coupling as fitted on some vehicles allows for speed variations between the front and rear drive system,same as the diff does that is fitted onto the front /rear axle. The only way to allow your vehicle to drive in a permanent 4wd state without damaging the gearbox due to binding is to have the rear propshaft modified with the fitment of a viscous coupling.I have seen this done on the older FJ series Landcruisers and Hilux 4x4 by serious off road enthusiasts.Usually fitting the viscous coupling that came fitted to the old Celica GT 4wd,it requires some major engineering work but propshaft specialists can do this....if you can locate a viscous coupling....good luck.

This is what I like in TV,...sometimes there is some good professional and interesting information.....I learned a couple of things THX....

A change from the usual justified or not Thai bashing....

Thank you very much Daz69, Pomthai and the others....

Best regards.

Off Road Pat

Your welcome Off Road Pat, i am by the way 15 years factory trained Toyota technician,1985-2000 before moving onto Merc/Iveco light goods. Glad to share

knowledge.

[IMHO]

Your welcome Off Road Pat, i am by the way 15 years factory trained Toyota technician,1985-2000 before moving onto Merc/Iveco light goods. Glad to share

knowledge.

According to some posters here, in that 15 years the only thing you would have done is change some fluids?

[Jitar]

As Pomthai has covered, it's just diff wind-up.

The new Triton 4x4 (2014+) has Super Select II, which supports full-time 4x4 via a Torsen center diff though - which no other pickup in TH has or has had.

Apart from the (rare) 3.2L Ranger Shorty and VW Amorak (if VW sold any)?

Land Rover did some 110 pick ups with constant 4WD to but probably not in LOS.

Sorry for being pedantic.

[Mudcrab]

Most 4wd vehicles are actually 2 wheel drive unless fitted with a locking differential.

Sure they have drive shafts to front and rear axles but the normal diffs will only drive the wheel of least resistance.

I've towed many rather surprised '4wd' owners out of bogged situations simply because of this basic and very common misunderstanding..

[Daz69]

As Pomthai has covered, it's just diff wind-up.

The new Triton 4x4 (2014+) has Super Select II, which supports full-time 4x4 via a Torsen center diff though - which no other pickup in TH has or has had.

Apart from the (rare) 3.2L Ranger Shorty and VW Amorak (if VW sold any)?

Land Rover did some 110 pick ups with constant 4WD to but probably not in LOS.

Sorry for being pedantic.

Not pedantic...informative

[ardokano]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

You sure?

super select!!! have 3 dif

[ardokano]

Hi thanks for the reply. I can see where you are coming from but when the problem occurs it remains even when driving in a straight line, the drag is very evident but disappears when 2 wheel is selected.

If you have part time 4x4- easy select

SO when long drive on 4 wheels fast tire wear, stretching circuit in the transfer case.

If You have super select not any problem. can drive 4x4 full time anywhere.

[Daz69]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

You sure?

super select!!! have 3 dif

Yes I am 100% sure the Triton model the OP is having 'gearbox windup' problems with does not have a centre diff, the model in question isn't fitted with Super Select.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Daz69

[ardokano]

The Triton 4x4 has no centre diff so the 4wd system should never be engaged on hard surfaces,only loose surfaces.Snow,mud,gravel etc.

You sure?

super select!!! have 3 dif

Yes I am 100% sure the Triton model the OP is having 'gearbox windup' problems with does not have a centre diff, the model in question isn't fitted with Super Select.

Ok then if you talk about OP Triton

Sorry in you post i do not see OP Triton..

[Lancashirelad]

My 4x4 Vigo auto has an excellent rear LSD. The 'on demand' front has a locker, full traction on both wheels.

The handbook says I can use 4x4 in the wet on black top .

But, the handbook says l should engage 4x4 every month and drive 10k, so what am l to do in the dry season.. ...find a field...

Anyhoooo, what l do is engage it on a known straight bit of road on my rounds, but, it will not disengage doing this. Must stop the ride put it in reverse and move back a yard or two, that disengages it..

Because it is suffering from transmission wind up, my 1963 88" Land Rover will do it if I inadvertantly run in 4wd on a dry road.

For those still trying to get their heads around this, though it seems most of you have now when in 4wd the transfer box (which is bolted to gearbox) supplies drive to both front & rear diffs, though by the time that drive gets to wheels the speed of rotation may not be exactly matched back and front. On a slippery surface the tyres can "slip" and keep in sync, on a dry/good grip surface it is very difficult for them to do that, hence transmission wind up.

This is another reason why if left in 4wd on the road tyres will wear fast as they try to slip on the dry surface - putting huge strain on the transmission components. Some modern 4wds have the centre diff as mentioned, this alleviates the problem allowing front & rear wheels to rotate at different speeds.

[Lancashirelad]

This guy explains it fairly well except in most vehicles the chain he speaks of (in blue on the diagram) is replaced by cogs.

https://youtu.be/ZN6xHc7Nz-E

Edited June 12, 2016 by Lancashirelad