Thaksin Will Return With Pride And Dignity

[cclub75]

And sooner or later the 50 million will get sick of getting shafted. This may happen very soon, it may also happen when a certain destabilizing event happens in the remainder-section that rules the country.

Yes. We call that a revolution.

And this is what Thailand needs.

When you have a social structure so "frozen", history teaches us that the only outcome, sooner or later, is a revolution. It can be a pacific one. Or a violent one. But the situation has to change.

[sriracha john]

then, that is what is going to happen anyway in 2 weeks. Let the elected government then decide if they wish to revise the constitution.

You haven't been paying attention have you.. The next (or any) government CANT change the constitution because that requires a 2/3 majorit in the Senate, WHICH IS NOT ELECTED but APPOINTED under the new constitution that was forced down people's throats.

So.. Game over man.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a separate thread that says the constitution was approved by the majority of the voters in Thailand.

The constitutiton can be changed.

[sriracha john]

It's already the elephant in the room. In the end you're a country of 60 million people where 50 million get shafted, 9.8 million are happy with the current situation because they're doing alright and can contribute to shaft the 50 million, and the remainder actually rule the country.

Now, everything else aside, those are the basics.

And sooner or later the 50 million will get sick of getting shafted. This may happen very soon, it may also happen when a certain destabilizing event happens in the remainder-section that rules the country.

Would you care to elucidate on what destabilizing event will happen? If not, perhaps it's better if you didn't allude to it in some less than cryptic manner in the first place.

[younghusband]

It's already the elephant in the room. In the end you're a country of 60 million people where 50 million get shafted, 9.8 million are happy with the current situation because they're doing alright and can contribute to shaft the 50 million, and the remainder actually rule the country.

Now, everything else aside, those are the basics.

And sooner or later the 50 million will get sick of getting shafted. This may happen very soon, it may also happen when a certain destabilizing event happens in the remainder-section that rules the country.

Would you care to elucidate on what destabilizing event will happen? If not, perhaps it's better if you didn't allude to it in some less than cryptic manner in the first place.

But actually if forum rules are to be taken seriously you are both in error.We just have to accept that in this forum there are some things that can't be discussed or even alluded to.

[sriracha john]

Which is why its best not to mention them in the first place.

[hammered]

From what i hear the Thaksin CD is a big issue and there is a good chance of PPP disolution. Personally I think this could result in problems, but from what I hear from a few people who should know is that dont be surprised to se it happen. It sems even some usually sympathetic to PPP think it is like a shot in the foot. There also seems to be one name recurrently cropping up as to who was behind the production and distribution although whether at the behest of Mr. Thaksin or not sems to be more moot.

Anyway that is what I hear. Hope it proves to be wrong as I cant se how an election can be held withoput having a party to represent millions. We should also not foregt the Prachai's party is unravelling. We could end up going into an election with very little choice at all.

[chanchao]

then, that is what is going to happen anyway in 2 weeks. Let the elected government then decide if they wish to revise the constitution.

You haven't been paying attention have you.. The next (or any) government CANT change the constitution because that requires a 2/3 majorit in the Senate, WHICH IS NOT ELECTED but APPOINTED under the new constitution that was forced down people's throats.

So.. Game over man.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a separate thread that says the constitution was approved by the majority of the voters in Thailand.

The constitutiton can be changed.

Yes, with two thirds majority in an appointed Senate.

[chanchao]

It's already the elephant in the room. In the end you're a country of 60 million people where 50 million get shafted, 9.8 million are happy with the current situation because they're doing alright and can contribute to shaft the 50 million, and the remainder actually rule the country.

Now, everything else aside, those are the basics.

And sooner or later the 50 million will get sick of getting shafted. This may happen very soon, it may also happen when a certain destabilizing event happens in the remainder-section that rules the country.

Would you care to elucidate on what destabilizing event will happen? If not, perhaps it's better if you didn't allude to it in some less than cryptic manner in the first place.

John, you know and I know what I mean, and let's leave it at that. This is a Thailand based forum and we all know the limitations on free speech in that country, and as such I understand, acknowledge and abide by the forum rules. So I have to decline to explore this further, though if you PM me I can direct you to some places where this is freely discussed.

The basic premise is that if the current balance between people, politicians, military and elite is shifted in some way, profound change may occur.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Edited December 9, 2007 by chanchao

[chanchao]

Which is why its best not to mention them in the first place.

Then this is the end of this discussion, and all discussions like it.

Let's go discuss if people choose to eat with fork & spoon or fork & knife shall we?

Vewwy important.

Edited December 9, 2007 by chanchao

[hammered]

Hey guys can we leave out the trying to goad people into saying things that will get them banned? And Im not particulalry looking at who started what in this. Just a general comment. I still miss the loss of Colpyat who I spent many hours debating with and often not agreeing with. Persoanlly, I would rather not see the loss of any more posters especially those with contrarian opinions. I would not want to see the board get any more sterile. A bit of debate and disagrement is great. But avoiding brawling in the gutter is probably advisable. We are all mature human beings I am sure.

I am also sure we are all aware that there are subjects that we cannot refer to except in the most subtle or general way if at all.

Anyway maybe this off topic comment will get me banned;)

Peace

[chanchao]

Colpyat was banned?!

Well, that would be another thing I'd like to comment on, but can't. Any way to get in touch with him?

[meemiathai]

It's already the elephant in the room. In the end you're a country of 60 million people where 50 million get shafted, 9.8 million are happy with the current situation because they're doing alright and can contribute to shaft the 50 million, and the remainder actually rule the country.

Now, everything else aside, those are the basics.

And sooner or later the 50 million will get sick of getting shafted. This may happen very soon, it may also happen when a certain destabilizing event happens in the remainder-section that rules the country.

Sad but true.

I think Thaksin failed cause he stood too much over the side of the interest of those who get shafted and lost his balance.

[ando]

Anyone with half a brain knows in their own heart that the current military dictatorship is desperate to prevent a government popular with the majority of voters from coming to power in the forthcoming elections. Not really in the true spirit of Democracy is it?

[Ricardo]

I think Thaksin failed cause he stood too much over the side of the interest of those who get shafted and lost his balance.

Or ... he was the shafter-in-chief, another point-of-view.

Hint ... consider how much richer this friend-of-the-people was, after he quit his elected job as PM last Spring to go travelling, than when he took up the role and, I fully accept, seemed to make a good start in the first couple of years.

I would agree with you that he is now un-balanced.

[sriracha john]

I would agree with you that he is now has been un-balanced for quite some time.

there ya go...

[meemiathai]

So people are saying clean politician actually exists?

[Ricardo]

I would agree with you that he is now has been un-balanced for quite some time.

there ya go...

I stand corrected.

[Ricardo]

So people are saying clean politician actually exists?

In theory yes ... although it might make an interesting thread, if you can frame it to include Thailand, so it is relevant to TV.

For sure, there are many corrupt politicians here, with some being much more corrupt than others, IMHO. And then there are the totally greedy & corrupt, who would try to dismantle the institutions of democracy, stifle free-speach, and stamp out any and all differing opinions, to establish a kleptocracy.

[John K]

Anyone with half a brain knows in their own heart that the current military dictatorship is desperate to prevent a government popular with the majority of voters from coming to power in the forthcoming elections. Not really in the true spirit of Democracy is it?

Interesting comment, so the fact that they have absolutely no respect for laws or authority has no play what so ever? In your mind, please transplant the PPP to the USA and tell me how it would fly over there. I think you would find the USA has a lot less patients that the Thai government has when dealing with this bunch of bad boys and most if not all would be someplace in the court system looking at some jail time.

[plachon]

And then there are the totally greedy & corrupt, who would try to dismantle the institutions of democracy, stifle free-speach, and stamp out any and all differing opinions, to establish a kleptocracy.

Correct. Those people in collusion with the military held a coup a year last September, ripping up the Constitution and taking power by threat of force with no regard for democracy or the votes of the vast majority of Thais.

Since then, they most definitely tried to stamp out differing opinion and vastly increased censorship of media since under the Thaksin administration signifying their ongoing attempts to stifle free speech.

Incorrect Tud. Free speech and media freedoms were far more restricted, interfered with to serve narrow interests and at times, stifled, under the Thaksin regime than at any time since. That is my opinion and observation of both Thai and foreign-language press. You obviously beg to differ, but I would ask you to name the number of foreign journalists thrown out the country or Thai journalists sacked en-masse or indivdually since the Coup last year?

[sriracha john]

Sure you can... using reality.

These so-called 47,000 blocked websites your reference talks about is hogwash. The totally misnamed and suspect organization calling themselves, "FACT", announces these grandiose numbers... when in reality, using THEIR list, I've found two that were blocked and one of those is no longer blocked.

Edited December 9, 2007 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

Sure you can... using reality.

These so-called 47,000 blocked websites your reference talks about is hogwash. The totally misnamed and suspect organization calling themselves, "FACT", announces these grandiose numbers... when in reality, using THEIR list, I've found two that were blocked and one of those is no longer blocked.

Truth hurts, huh?

I am afraid you have touched on a sensitive nerve here.While respecting their right to express their support for the junta and its puppet government, there are are some who seem incapable of admitting any deterioration in any area since the coup. It doesn't really matter:they are only talking to themselves.

[brahmburgers]

I've been remiss in not reading all the posts on this thread. But the title ".....Thaksin will return with Pride and Dignity" is like a giant billboard with a stack of mudballs and rotten tomatoes stationed in front. It's an wide open invitation to dis Thaksin and his ilk.

I am not friend of Thaksin, but the title rings true and here's why: The majority of Thai people are readily dazzled by money and power. The more of it, the more respected the holder is. Loathe and love are lot more closely related than indifference is to either loathe or love. He'll be reviled in the press, but down deep the majority of Thais think he's one cool cat.

[sriracha john]

Sure you can... using reality.

These so-called 47,000 blocked websites your reference talks about is hogwash. The totally misnamed and suspect organization calling themselves, "FACT", announces these grandiose numbers... when in reality, using THEIR list, I've found two that were blocked and one of those is no longer blocked.

Truth hurts, huh?

What truth are you talking about? It's a lie that there are 47,000 blocked websites in Thailand.

*edit*

Post edited to reflect the commentator to which it was intended.

Edited December 10, 2007 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

Sure you can... using reality.

These so-called 47,000 blocked websites your reference talks about is hogwash. The totally misnamed and suspect organization calling themselves, "FACT", announces these grandiose numbers... when in reality, using THEIR list, I've found two that were blocked and one of those is no longer blocked.

Truth hurts, huh?

I am afraid you have touched on a sensitive nerve here.While respecting their right to express their support for the junta and its puppet government, there are are some who seem incapable of admitting any deterioration in any area since the coup. It doesn't really matter:they are only talking to themselves.

What truth are you talking about? It's a lie that there are 47,000 blocked websites in Thailand.

As I thought would be obvious, I was making a general rather than a particular point.If I am wrong about the inability of some to admit post coup incompetence or corruption, prove it by naming say three areas of national life which have deteriorated since the illegal putsch.I will gladly apologise if you take this challenge seriously but guess what I don't think you will.

As to banned webbed sites I have no idea.If you have trawled through them all I defer to your superior knowledge though would marvel at your stamina since the vast majority are presumably pornographic.

[sriracha john]

Sure you can... using reality.

These so-called 47,000 blocked websites your reference talks about is hogwash. The totally misnamed and suspect organization calling themselves, "FACT", announces these grandiose numbers... when in reality, using THEIR list, I've found two that were blocked and one of those is no longer blocked.

Truth hurts, huh?

I am afraid you have touched on a sensitive nerve here.While respecting their right to express their support for the junta and its puppet government, there are are some who seem incapable of admitting any deterioration in any area since the coup. It doesn't really matter:they are only talking to themselves.

What truth are you talking about? It's a lie that there are 47,000 blocked websites in Thailand.

As I thought would be obvious, I was making a general rather than a particular point.If I am wrong about the inability of some to admit post coup incompetence or corruption, prove it by naming say three areas of national life which have deteriorated since the illegal putsch.I will gladly apologise if you take this challenge seriously but guess what I don't think you will.

As to banned webbed sites I have no idea.If you have trawled through them all I defer to your superior knowledge though would marvel at your stamina since the vast majority are presumably pornographic.

Previous post corrected as above, but anyway... just for the heck of it...

1. The government has been too slow to neutralize Thaksin.

2. The government has been involved in a few superfluous undertakings not related to their short-term existence.

3. The government hasn't pushed the police reform through as much as they should.

and a freebie 4th for the foreigner community in Thailand, although not due to the government.

4. There seem to be more trolls on Thaivisa than ever before.

Edited December 10, 2007 by sriracha john

[younghusband]

Sure you can... using reality.

These so-called 47,000 blocked websites your reference talks about is hogwash. The totally misnamed and suspect organization calling themselves, "FACT", announces these grandiose numbers... when in reality, using THEIR list, I've found two that were blocked and one of those is no longer blocked.

Truth hurts, huh?

I am afraid you have touched on a sensitive nerve here.While respecting their right to express their support for the junta and its puppet government, there are are some who seem incapable of admitting any deterioration in any area since the coup. It doesn't really matter:they are only talking to themselves.

What truth are you talking about? It's a lie that there are 47,000 blocked websites in Thailand.

As I thought would be obvious, I was making a general rather than a particular point.If I am wrong about the inability of some to admit post coup incompetence or corruption, prove it by naming say three areas of national life which have deteriorated since the illegal putsch.I will gladly apologise if you take this challenge seriously but guess what I don't think you will.

As to banned webbed sites I have no idea.If you have trawled through them all I defer to your superior knowledge though would marvel at your stamina since the vast majority are presumably pornographic.

Previous post corrected as above, but anyway... just for the heck of it...

1. The government has been too slow to neutralize Thaksin.

2. The government has been involved in a few superfluous undertakings not related to their short-term existence.

3. The government hasn't pushed the police reform through as much as they should.

and a freebie 4th for the foreigner community in Thailand, although not due to the government.

4. There seem to be more trolls on Thaivisa than ever before.

Response almost comically as predicted.

[Ricardo]

So people are saying clean politician actually exists?

In theory yes ... although it might make an interesting thread, if you can frame it to include Thailand, so it is relevant to TV.

For sure, there are many corrupt politicians here, with some being much more corrupt than others, IMHO. And then there are the totally greedy & corrupt, who would try to dismantle the institutions of democracy, stifle free-speach, and stamp out any and all differing opinions, to establish a kleptocracy.

I was of course referring to Thaksin & the former TRT-government here, although that seems to have been missed, by some other posters, who view the new constitution & holding of elections later this month as anti-democratic steps ?

On 3 things which have been less-well done, since the coup, I would say :-

1. Chasing the corrupt people who had been systematically-robbing the country previously. Clearly there is a fear of the return of Thaksin, or incompetance, in bringing these people to book. This is disappointing. On the other hand, the people who rigged the previous (now annulled) election have had their political-rights temporarily withdrawn, so justice was seen to prevail.

2. A delay in holding the election, which was initially promised within a year. but has actually taken 15 months to be reached.

3. The economic-slowdown, for which the government or uncertainty following the coup, might be blamed. Although global-conditions, the effects of a very-strong Baht, or the fact that the money was all gone, also helped. Nevertheless I doubt that growth of 8-9% was healthy or sustainable longer-term, and feel that the current 4.5% is better, as far as one can place any trust at all in economic statistics.

I am sure we would all agree that, in an imperfect world, a return to an elected government of some sort is a step in the right direction, I only hope that this middle-of-the-road change is permitted by either more-extreme elements in the military or the Thaksin-loyalists of TRT/PPP. And then Thaksin may feel able to return, if not with pride and dignity, at least to face the charges in court which he is currently a fugitive from.

[sriracha john]

Sure you can... using reality.

These so-called 47,000 blocked websites your reference talks about is hogwash. The totally misnamed and suspect organization calling themselves, "FACT", announces these grandiose numbers... when in reality, using THEIR list, I've found two that were blocked and one of those is no longer blocked.

Truth hurts, huh?

I am afraid you have touched on a sensitive nerve here.While respecting their right to express their support for the junta and its puppet government, there are are some who seem incapable of admitting any deterioration in any area since the coup. It doesn't really matter:they are only talking to themselves.

What truth are you talking about? It's a lie that there are 47,000 blocked websites in Thailand.

As I thought would be obvious, I was making a general rather than a particular point.If I am wrong about the inability of some to admit post coup incompetence or corruption, prove it by naming say three areas of national life which have deteriorated since the illegal putsch.I will gladly apologise if you take this challenge seriously but guess what I don't think you will.

As to banned webbed sites I have no idea.If you have trawled through them all I defer to your superior knowledge though would marvel at your stamina since the vast majority are presumably pornographic.

Previous post corrected as above, but anyway... just for the heck of it...

1. The government has been too slow to neutralize Thaksin.

2. The government has been involved in a few superfluous undertakings not related to their short-term existence.

3. The government hasn't pushed the police reform through as much as they should.

and a freebie 4th for the foreigner community in Thailand, although not due to the government.

4. There seem to be more trolls on Thaivisa than ever before.

Response almost comically as predicted.

and in direct proportion to the comical question.

[hammered]

Interesting to see the arguement over which of two regimes that heavily stifled freedoms was the worst. Surely a higher benchmark could be set.