Traveling Sailor Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. I don't understand why all the concern. Obviously it was built to Thai standards, so why is anyone surprised?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emster23 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 It's farang fault. This was built to Thai standards and Thais are lighter than farangs. Farang fatties stress concrete too much. Although judging by expansion of Thai fatties in last decade, perhaps standards need to be raised...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biplanebluey Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Let's put it another way, if the supporting pillar wasn't required then it wouldn't be there in the first place. little bit concret and paint and ready to go.....not? Be my guest, I'll be right behind you [on another continent]. Why not just fill the cracks---------- with heavy duty filler of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reigntax Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. I don't understand why all the concern. Obviously it was built to Thai standards, so why is anyone surprised?? Over the last 10 years walking around Patong with the increase in building of those 3 to 5 storey buildings, approx 4 m square construction with precast drop in floor panels and masonry infill between 150mm sq columns and beams reinforced with plain 8 or 10mm bar, the quality of construction is the worst I have ever seen, there is no reasonable level of engineering and every one is a potential death trap. There will be many collapses once the right conditions and gradual deteriation due to age occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biplanebluey Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. Wonder what happened to the concrete test piece, should be taken from every delivery. It was taken-------- away!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300sd Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 No one taught them to care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan michaud Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I can see a lot of farang engineers on Thai Visa as well Yes you can. Mihails, you don't need to be an engineer to realise that's a disaster waiting to happen. You would have to be a complete cretin not to close down the entire building and anything close enough to be hit when (not if) it collapses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worgeordie Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Close the Mall,no way ,there's money to be made, it was the same when they were demolishing 3 floors ,built illegally on top of a shopping Mall in Bangkok,they never closed it,and one day some masonry fell through from the floors above and killed 2 people.live dangerously in Thailand. regards worgeordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahibji Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 a building with compromised structural pillar should be shut down until and unless engineering evaluations confirm that the structure is still safe. amazing thing to note is that the security department of the building did not notice the damage to the pillar. their security officers are supposed to go around the entire building area to ensure safety. intriguing story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulic Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Yes it looks really bad to me. But are any of the comments from a structural engineer ? I would be very interested to know if a repair is viable, or should the building be condemned. I have spent many hours in the Jungceylon from grocery shopping to watching movies. I never felt unsafe. I never felt the vibrations other posters have felt. Not interested in a Thai cover-up/solution. But I would like to hear from a qualified/certified TV poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUSHGOAT Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Surely the construction contractor/cowboy should be held responsible for this. If they were made correct the shoddy work at their own expense they wouldn't be as quick to do shoddy work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 What happened to the Central Pattaya story, the pillars in the basement that needed support brackets because of cracking, that story went very quiet, what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimay1 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. Wonder what happened to the concrete test piece, should be taken from every delivery. I've seen a lot of concrete placements here in Thailand and I have yet to see a slump test being made. Nor have I seen a test cube or cylinder being filled for the 28 day compression strength test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydebolle Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 There is little which cannot be fixed with a bucket of cement We will see either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Familyonthemove Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Now THAT is scary. Exactly the same problem as the crumbling pillars of the car park below Central Shopping Mall in Pattaya. Same construction company hello ? I've stayed in the Hilton that's on top of the Central Festival complex in Pattaya, and noticed that the windows didn't seal properly as the frames were not square. The shower floor also had the fall going the wrong way, so the water wouldn't drain away - and some interiors doors wouldn't close properly. I just assumed it was poor workmanship, but perhaps it's something more serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerver Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. One more item in a hot country in this case THAILAND, "Concrete Temperature" at time of delivery and pouring. In the Middle East desert we only did cement work in the early morning hours and later afternoon and evening, none during the hottest part of the day. Lets be realistic the photo shows one (1) pillar you can bet your aching a@@ that the other (understand total 51) are in not much better condition and being the support pillars at the bottom of the structure it only will be time and the whole shebang collapses in on its footprint. The Mall in Seoul, Korea only showed cracks and it went down killing many shoppers in addition to staff. This Patong Mall MUST be closed to the public NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishWashMan Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Now THAT is scary. The hotline for failing hotels is genius. im re-tracting my hahahahahahaha response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipperylobster Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Kick it...and if it does not wobble.... voila...no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kru Baa Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Nothing to see here folks. Keep shopping everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exbikey Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. I don't understand why all the concern. Obviously it was built to Thai standards, so why is anyone surprised?? Over the last 10 years walking around Patong with the increase in building of those 3 to 5 storey buildings, approx 4 m square construction with precast drop in floor panels and masonry infill between 150mm sq columns and beams reinforced with plain 8 or 10mm bar, the quality of construction is the worst I have ever seen, there is no reasonable level of engineering and every one is a potential death trap. There will be many collapses once the right conditions and gradual deteriation due to age occur. "...the quality of construction is the worst I've ever seen..." If you're ever using the roads currently being constructed at the Samkong underpass I'd close your eyes. The only way for the contractor to proceed is to rip the lot out and start again, if they can't get the sub-base/base right there's no chance of getting a decent road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kru Baa Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Now THAT is scary. Exactly the same problem as the crumbling pillars of the car park below Central Shopping Mall in Pattaya. Same construction company hello ? I pray for the collapse of Central Festival shopping mall everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPI Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. I tried to explain to thai workers why one shouldn't use too much water in concrete, they laughed and said "it's too hard to work and we don't want to hire vibrators!" They've never heard of "Slump"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meena999 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Building standards in Thailand are an absolute joke, this sort of thing does not surprise me at all it's something I expect to happen. The councils and engineers should be personally held accountable and sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanukjim Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Ah Yes, Thailand construction and engerneering at its finest. For every one million baht of material required for a commerical building the owners are lucky if they get 200,000 worth.Screw any safety laws .They are only there to protect the public. The elite and the rich will not be shopping there much as they will go to the more expencive areas constructed by engineers and construction companies from out side Thailand..Any other you might hear the expression " Corruption raises its head again" when you hear of this happening in other parts of Asia, but here in LOS curruption stands tall and proud.and very evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reigntax Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) The photo shows some interesting issues. There appears to be a section of the column void of concrete and its not a typical compression failure. There is also very visible evidence of over hydration by the numerous cavities left after curing. The reo has no signs of rust but the concrete has also not bonded to it as you would expect. The green and pink colour tinge on the surface and beyond which I assume is not the lighting as it is patchy. Looks to me like a failure caused by a casting void due to over hydration, possibly at the start of a new batch delivery, whereby the load was only supported by the reinforcing until a lateral force, probably thermal movement, resulted in the axial displacement. In other words, a crap batch of over watered concrete. One more item in a hot country in this case THAILAND, "Concrete Temperature" at time of delivery and pouring. In the Middle East desert we only did cement work in the early morning hours and later afternoon and evening, none during the hottest part of the day. Lets be realistic the photo shows one (1) pillar you can bet your aching a@@ that the other (understand total 51) are in not much better condition and being the support pillars at the bottom of the structure it only will be time and the whole shebang collapses in on its footprint. The Mall in Seoul, Korea only showed cracks and it went down killing many shoppers in addition to staff. This Patong Mall MUST be closed to the public NOW. Pouring concrete above 30 deg C temperatures always creates issues especially in thick slabs or thickened sections when using strenghts equal or above 32 MPa. Not suggesting this is the case in Thailand but in developed countries the batch plants can control the delivery to site, workability and curing times by using admixtures and they are generally very good at it. What they cant control is the driver stopping off for lunch on the way and the batch starting to cure upon arrival on site. The first thing they then do is add water to increase the slump and that batch is basically unpredictable. It could be ok or it could be f#$ked.Luckily Thailand is quiet humid which slows down the curing unlike the Middle East which I assume is hot and dry making it difficult to retain moisture and keep cool. It is unlikely that complete failure will occur as if the failed column is unloaded, even partly, the adjacent supports already bear the increased load. It would also appear that the ligatures have done their job as the upper has restrained the vertical bars and so has the lower as the bars have not popped out. Lig spacing in this column may be an issue but depends how over sized the bars are and the design column load. It would be interesting to see the condition of some adjacent columns and whether any visible simiar sign of failure exists. You are correct, all the other columns could have similar problems or it maybe only this one, or may be just a few. You can be sure that signs of this failure would have been visible for a while but it was only the axial displacement and cracking that made even the average layman to take any notice. It would have to be very poorly engineered for this sofar localised failure, to impact on the remainder of the structure. But this is Thailand and anything is possible, even probable! Edited June 9, 2016 by Reigntax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12DrinkMore Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) No problem. It has been fixed. All covered up. Just need a couple of Buddhas, some orange ribbons and a blessing. Good to go. Indeed, it could be a profit maker. "Make merit here before entering the shopping centre". Must be worth at least 500 Baht merit to ensure you are not buried there. Edited June 9, 2016 by 12DrinkMore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyman Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Smells like an inheritance from the former mayor of Patong. To be continued.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 So, the pillars are in the underground car park. Does this mean that the pillars are holding up the shopping mall above? If not, what are they holding up? The owner(s) of the structural engineering firm are probably on their way to Cambodia about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brer Fox Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The dangers that lurk within everyday life in Thailand. Self preservation is becoming a real problem. I often go to the Bang Kapi Mall. Now I will be doing a visual of external columns before I enter. Same with Siam Paragon. or MBK. Or the BTS heaven forbid.Staying alive in Thailand is a roll of the dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 They never inspected it while they were there . Tipped off as well its good to see your winning the war on corruption. In this case - winning the war on "corrosion"? AFAIK, winning the war on corruption is not happening and no one will believe otherwise until some heads at the top of the corrupt pile are removed (not just low hanging fruit)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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