Thai trans student runner places in US state championships, not everyone is pleased

[Jingthing]

As far as transgender people in sports, it's not a simple black and white question, and I think as transgender people have become much more visible (in the U.S. as this is a U.S. story) sports organizations are going to need to develop clear policies, balancing civil rights and fairness. This will probably take many years. It would be easier to just say just ban transgender people in all sports because they don't clearly fit into male or female teams, but I think in the U.S. context, that level of intolerance will not stand.

Contrary to the impression some might have of the pro transgender civil rights agenda, it's not a matter of anything goes. It's a matter of clear and reasonable policies that balance conflicting POVs.

This trans girl was able to compete as a girl in her sports organization. It doesn't follow that the U.S. women's Olympics soccer team is going to be all transgender women. In other words, calm down. Let these issues work out organically ... it won't be that big a deal.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Jingthing

[Bender]

few years ago, we did have a similar problem in the female thai boxing league.

The female thai competitor was fighting like a ... guy. The foreigners didnt believe she was a woman, and did ask she got checked...

And let me add, in this case a man will always run faster than a woman, because of bigger muscle and testosterone...

Edited June 11, 2016 by Bender

[Bender]

Might have thought of a better nickname than "Ice", to represent Thailand...

I should have choosen a better name than Bender..... i didnt know the real meaning until recently

[dick dasterdly]

I'm about as liberal minded as it gets, and I very much support the rights of transgenders, BUT ....

A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman. And even though he/she did not win the final competition, he/she displaced some women in previous competitions, which allowed her to reach the finals, and them to not.

Ok then lets use your "logic"

She beat others earlier in precious lead up comps. Then she failed to win the final.

Then as you say because she beat others in the lead up comps, she displaced women. These same women who lost to her. What, they are going to take a miracle drug and then win the final comp?

May the best person win!

I think you missed the main point of his post - " A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman."

I've nothing against transgenders, but male transgenders should not be allowed to compete as a female.

Edited June 11, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[augustwest]

As far as transgender people in sports, it's not a simple black and white question, and I think as transgender people have become much more visible (in the U.S. as this is a U.S. story) sports organizations are going to need to develop clear policies, balancing civil rights and fairness. This will probably take many years. It would be easier to just say just ban transgender people in all sports because they don't clearly fit into male or female teams, but I think in the U.S. context, that level of intolerance will not stand.

Contrary to the impression some might have of the pro transgender civil rights agenda, it's not a matter of anything goes. It's a matter of clear and reasonable policies that balance conflicting POVs.

This trans girl was able to compete as a girl in her sports organization. It doesn't follow that the U.S. women's Olympics soccer team is going to be all transgender women. In other words, calm down. Let these issues work out organically ... it won't be that big a deal.

It's absolutely a black and white thing. Your born with a dick your a man-period.

Cut it off ,wear dresses and And lipstick and your still a man.

Probably could never compete against males.

[phantomfiddler]

Is transgender where a person born as say male believes he is female? If so why not change the body as well? Or is that transexual? And what is transvestite, Eddie Izard? I would like to know this. Not being funny.

Herr Otto, hand me zee scalpel !

[Toknarok]

This is an interesting topic as it opens up a brand new ballgame (pun intended). In the past it wasn't transgender athletes who were were under the spotlight but athletes who entered events claiming to be of the sex covering that event (eg male/female 100 yard dash). Remember the fuss of a number of Eastern European 'women' contestants.Bulging muscles, extraordinary athletic results. A lot of this was due to drug (steroid) abuse but certain athletes were 'gender tested' and the chromosome they had indicated that they were the opposite sex to what they claimed to be....https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ZoPLUoPxAaXZigf2xYDIDA#q=do+the+still+

This is not the case here. The athlete identifies as female but readily admits that she was born male. What the answer is I have no idea, nor apparently do the sporting authorities. One way or the other they're going to have to sort something out, something like this will happen again and unless a solution is found then every case will cause considerable controversy.

[LannaGuy]

As far as transgender people in sports, it's not a simple black and white question, and I think as transgender people have become much more visible (in the U.S. as this is a U.S. story) sports organizations are going to need to develop clear policies, balancing civil rights and fairness. This will probably take many years. It would be easier to just say just ban transgender people in all sports because they don't clearly fit into male or female teams, but I think in the U.S. context, that level of intolerance will not stand.

Contrary to the impression some might have of the pro transgender civil rights agenda, it's not a matter of anything goes. It's a matter of clear and reasonable policies that balance conflicting POVs.

This trans girl was able to compete as a girl in her sports organization. It doesn't follow that the U.S. women's Olympics soccer team is going to be all transgender women. In other words, calm down. Let these issues work out organically ... it won't be that big a deal.

we know what the answer IS and that's don't separate sports into sex I, for one, am BORED stupid by the woman tennis players moaning on about parity of prize money let them compate with the men! and let women, men, gays, trans and whatever compete together

[2fishin2]

I'm about as liberal minded as it gets, and I very much support the rights of transgenders, BUT ....

A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman. And even though he/she did not win the final competition, he/she displaced some women in previous competitions, which allowed her to reach the finals, and them to not.

Ok then lets use your "logic"

She beat others earlier in precious lead up comps. Then she failed to win the final.

Then as you say because she beat others in the lead up comps, she displaced women. These same women who lost to her. What, they are going to take a miracle drug and then win the final comp?

May the best person win!

I think you missed the main point of his post - " A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman."

I've nothing against transgenders, but male transgenders should not be allowed to compete as a female.

Complete BS! If your statement was true why didn't she win?

Let me help you, because your opinion is a complete false statement.

[dick dasterdly]

This is an interesting topic as it opens up a brand new ballgame (pun intended). In the past it wasn't transgender athletes who were were under the spotlight but athletes who entered events claiming to be of the sex covering that event (eg male/female 100 yard dash). Remember the fuss of a number of Eastern European 'women' contestants.Bulging muscles, extraordinary athletic results. A lot of this was due to drug (steroid) abuse but certain athletes were 'gender tested' and the chromosome they had indicated that they were the opposite sex to what they claimed to be....https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ZoPLUoPxAaXZigf2xYDIDA#q=do+the+still+

This is not the case here. The athlete identifies as female but readily admits that she was born male. What the answer is I have no idea, nor apparently do the sporting authorities. One way or the other they're going to have to sort something out, something like this will happen again and unless a solution is found then every case will cause considerable controversy.

There's no controversy about not allowing someone born as a male to compete as a female?

[daoyai]

Complete BS! If your statement was true why didn't she win? (quote from 2fishin2)

He didn't win because he ran slower than his competition. That does not negate the fact that males hold a physical advantage. Obviously not in every case, the dude probly "runs like a girl" .

Edited June 11, 2016 by daoyai

[dick dasterdly]

I'm about as liberal minded as it gets, and I very much support the rights of transgenders, BUT ....

A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman. And even though he/she did not win the final competition, he/she displaced some women in previous competitions, which allowed her to reach the finals, and them to not.

Ok then lets use your "logic"

She beat others earlier in precious lead up comps. Then she failed to win the final.

Then as you say because she beat others in the lead up comps, she displaced women. These same women who lost to her. What, they are going to take a miracle drug and then win the final comp?

May the best person win!

I think you missed the main point of his post - " A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman."

I've nothing against transgenders, but male transgenders should not be allowed to compete as a female.

Complete BS! If your statement was true why didn't she win?

Let me help you, because your opinion is a complete false statement.

Contrary to a poster earlier on in this thread, I believe that the average man is unlikely to beat the top female athletes - hence this transgender only coming 5th.

But I'm not sure why you think my post is BS and that I'm lying. Do you think I'm lying about having no problem with transgenders?

[dick dasterdly]

As far as transgender people in sports, it's not a simple black and white question, and I think as transgender people have become much more visible (in the U.S. as this is a U.S. story) sports organizations are going to need to develop clear policies, balancing civil rights and fairness. This will probably take many years. It would be easier to just say just ban transgender people in all sports because they don't clearly fit into male or female teams, but I think in the U.S. context, that level of intolerance will not stand.

Contrary to the impression some might have of the pro transgender civil rights agenda, it's not a matter of anything goes. It's a matter of clear and reasonable policies that balance conflicting POVs.

This trans girl was able to compete as a girl in her sports organization. It doesn't follow that the U.S. women's Olympics soccer team is going to be all transgender women. In other words, calm down. Let these issues work out organically ... it won't be that big a deal.

we know what the answer IS and that's don't separate sports into sex I, for one, am BORED stupid by the woman tennis players moaning on about parity of prize money let them compate with the men! and let women, men, gays, trans and whatever compete together

Go away. We're all tired (or at least I am) with your posts saying that sporting events should not be separated between males and females.

I have no doubt that you would prefer this to happen, as it would confirm your view that men are superior to women in every sense?

It would only confirm that men are physically stronger - but don't let that stop you in your belief.

[halloween]

Where I live, they have public boxing bouts as a tourist attraction. Men fight 4 rounds, women fight 2 rounds, katoeys fight 3.

[HerbalEd]

I'm about as liberal minded as it gets, and I very much support the rights of transgenders, BUT ....

A "woman" who is genetically a male with the genes and body of a man has an unfair physical advantage over a woman. And even though he/she did not win the final competition, he/she displaced some women in previous competitions, which allowed her to reach the finals, and them to not.

Ok then lets use your "logic"

She beat others earlier in precious lead up comps. Then she failed to win the final.

Then as you say because she beat others in the lead up comps, she displaced women. These same women who lost to her. What, they are going to take a miracle drug and then win the final comp?

May the best person win!

So, do you think it's fair competition if a football or rugby team of all transgender women (i.e., genetically men) compete against a team of all non-transgender women? What about a transgender "woman" boxer competing against a non-transgender woman boxer? If this is allowed, then what's to keep schools and pros from creating teams of all transgender "women"? Where do you draw the line?

Again, I repeat, I am not at all against transgenders and I do support their civil rights. However, this particular sports competition issue is a dilemma for me.

[HerbalEd]

few years ago, we did have a similar problem in the female thai boxing league.

The female thai competitor was fighting like a ... guy. The foreigners didnt believe she was a woman, and did ask she got checked...

And let me add, in this case a man will always run faster than a woman, because of bigger muscle and testosterone...

Always? According to this story, the transgender came in fifth.

[mki8]

Not tits and still got a spam dangler,

That's j a femboy, or a gay man with long hair

[Thechook]

So if I identify myself as thai, should I be accepted as a thai person and be awarded the same benefits as those fortunate to be born in the right country. I am thai and it's not my fault I was born to farang parents in Australia. I am trapped in a farang body and want to be accepted and recognised as the Thai I really am.

[stevenl]

As long as she is female according to IAAF regulations she can compete in female events. See here, http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/iaaf-to-introduce-eligibility-rules-for-femal-1

[dick dasterdly]

As long as she is female according to IAAF regulations she can compete in female events. See here, http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/iaaf-to-introduce-eligibility-rules-for-femal-1

And rules like that only inflame the hatred of so many .

Its common sense (to me anyway) that male transgenders should not be allowed to compete against women in female only events.

Live their life as a female - yes. Compete as a female - no.

[Ceruhe]

A rude dude thought he was personally insulting me by calling me MISS when I'm sure he knows very well that I'm a CISGENDER male that doesn't identify as a female. To that kind of WOMEN HATING mentality, to call someone a girl that doesn't identify as a girl, is an INSULT.

Did you let his statement fly past you on purpose and that's why you are in the belief that to be misogyny? That example was same same but different to the "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" stance.

You however, offended by missing "the joke"...how to you explain yourself away that getting merely called "miss" is an INSULT to YOU though? From your posts so far one ought to believe that you do not have a negative opinion toward females on the grand scale, yet you are insulted if somebody just pretends/assumes/declares to think you are one? What am I smelling here exactly?

Also, you simply state "I'm sure he knows" asserting his gender while expecting him to know about yours...sure I don't know either of you to know how far back you 2 go or if there has been a feud before or assuming that most TV members are male by default, but his statement was no insult per se. You can also just keep misusing language as redefine words as you go like feminists do and make them lose their power associated with them, I'd advice against doing that though.

With that said, going by your name and avatar I'd presume you are female, your writing on the other hand is male to me.

One could, however, also ad hominem attack you on your avatar to represent your political viewpoint, mix in your posts from here and come to the conclusion that you are a regressive left SJW or borderlining toward that direction and thus choose to not take you serious in the first place based on that. But that's being shallow again.

[Jingthing]

...

One could, however, also ad hominem attack you on your avatar to represent your political viewpoint, mix in your posts from here and come to the conclusion that you are a regressive left SJW or borderlining toward that direction and thus choose to not take you serious in the first place based on that. But that's being shallow again.

Leading blah blah blah edited out for brevity's sake.

What a moronic not to mention over-wordy, personally targeted (as opposed to TOPIC centered) rant. Plenty of more substantive stuff to post about on this forum than waste time with such INFLAMMATORY garbage.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Jingthing

[TPI]

His logic is sound, though. It's fine running with the girls, she just can't win. By the by, #525 is kinda hot.

Agreed, is it just a matter of mental adjustment?? Nah, she looks pretty onrdinary to me!! (#525)

[Mudcrab]

Transgender means you identify as the gender other than your birth gender. Physical transition is very individualized and is generally a long process. It doesn't necessarily mean ever changing the genitals. Hormone therapy is usual.

So I could identify that I'm female, wear women's clothes, use the ladies lavatories, wear make up, talk higher pitched, compete in women's sport then every Tuesday night have intercourse with the missus, then her with me, I can do all this in the name of transgender?

You want to do that? I reckon it's a very serious life changing situation to discover you're a trans woman. You act like it's a trivial whim. Perhaps get educated.

Yes, sorry about that, I guess it is a life changing event. If a transgender person who identifies herself as female wants to compete with other females in a running race, so be it. She didn't win, she came third, so why the big fuss. Guess we are still competing with peoples perceptions of what is right and wrong. I think maybe religion is playing a big part in this debate too. Growing up with the bible rammed down your throat doesn't help you understand modern life. The world is after all more open to sexuality than before with gay marriage now accepted throughout the world, maybe we should think before we judge others.

Really?

There are many countries that will stone you to death, behead you or throw you from a tall building if you are homosexual.

Maybe we should think more before we post.

[Ceruhe]

Welcome to my ignore list.

Regressive left suspected and confirmed~

[stevenl]

As long as she is female according to IAAF regulations she can compete in female events. See here, http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/iaaf-to-introduce-eligibility-rules-for-femal-1

And rules like that only inflame the hatred of so many .

Its common sense (to me anyway) that male transgenders should not be allowed to compete against women in female only events.

Live their life as a female - yes. Compete as a female - no.

Why would that inflame? Most transgenders will not meet those requirements, only physical females will.

[MJCM]

<snip>

Welcome to my ignore list.

I think your ignore list must be reaching ThaiVisa limits by now.

[dick dasterdly]

As long as she is female according to IAAF regulations she can compete in female events. See here, http://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/iaaf-to-introduce-eligibility-rules-for-femal-1

And rules like that only inflame the hatred of so many .

Its common sense (to me anyway) that male transgenders should not be allowed to compete against women in female only events.

Live their life as a female - yes. Compete as a female - no.

Why would that inflame? Most transgenders will not meet those requirements, only physical females will.

Read this thread....

For some reason this transgender was allowed to compete in a female event - and IMO this is not 'on'.

[Bender]

few years ago, we did have a similar problem in the female thai boxing league.

The female thai competitor was fighting like a ... guy. The foreigners didnt believe she was a woman, and did ask she got checked...

And let me add, in this case a man will always run faster than a woman, because of bigger muscle and testosterone...

Always? According to this story, the transgender came in fifth.

because that was a thai transgender.... that might explain the poor rank

[Jingthing]

<snip>

Welcome to my ignore list.

I think your ignore list must be reaching ThaiVisa limits by now.

Not sure there is a limit. Maybe call it stress testing the software.