90 percent of tiger’s farms and private zoos are suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketin

[snoop1130]

90 percent of tiger’s farms and private zoos are suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketing

THAILAND -- About 90 percent of tiger farms and private zoos in Thailand are suspected to be involved in illegal trade in wildlife, said Mr Edwin Wiek, founder of Wildlife Friends Foundation-Thailand, during a seminar on “Tigers: From Cages to Black Market” on Monday.

Referring to the recent raid of the Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi and the eventual relocation of 137 tigers from the temple to a breeding station in Ratchaburi province, Wiek said that the number of tigers seized constituted less than 10 percent of the endangered wildlife illegally traded in this country.

Nevertheless, he noted that the action of the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plants Conservation in saving the tigers had earned high praise from wildlife conservation organizations worldwide for the country’s efforts to protect wildlife.

Citing Cites report, Wiek said that the number of tigers for the past nine years had increased from 940 to over 1,400 raising suspicion that about 90 percent of the tiger farms and private zoos might be involved, in one way or another, with trading in the black market of endangered wildlife.

He disclosed that whenever a tiger was dead in Thailand, illegal traders would be notified within a short period of time to pick up the carcass which would be cut up with its hide removed and saleable organs separated for sale to neighbouring countries.

He further said a tiger which about 100 kilogrammes in weight could fetch between 100,000-200,000 baht and the male tigers would fetch higher prices. But once they are smuggled across the Thai border, the price will jump 3-4 times higher, he added.

Wiek suggested that legal actions should be taken against those found to be involved in the illegal trade in wildlife at the Tiger’s Farm.

Full Story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/90-percent-tigers-farms-private-zoos-suspected-involved-wildlife-black-marketing/

-- Thai PBS 2016-06-20

[thesetat2013]

And to think that the Abbott at that tiger temple claims to know nothing about what happened inside? I sure hope his accounting records and his personal assets are discovered and the truth comes out.

Edited June 20, 2016 by thesetat2013

[Beng]

Surprised ?

[doremifasol]

Sure. Look legit and do the opposite.

Best camouflage.

GRRRRRRR.............

[The stuttering parrot]

I suppose some praise is in order but after complaints going back 20 years and the tiger temple allowed to flourish and failure of authorities to act then small praise indeed.

So if Mr Weik is right and it looks like he's been right all along then it's time for all authorities to strongly take his advice and go on the front foot and start raiding arresting and shutting down this industry in Thailand.

Not easy if the 90% is right but they could really gain some much needed face in the world of wildlife cruelty and rescue.

[Basil B]

Surprised ?

Yes, I would have thought it more like 100%

[chainarong]

I suppose some praise is in order but after complaints going back 20 years and the tiger temple allowed to flourish and failure of authorities to act then small praise indeed.

So if Mr Weik is right and it looks like he's been right all along then it's time for all authorities to strongly take his advice and go on the front foot and start raiding arresting and shutting down this industry in Thailand.

Not easy if the 90% is right but they could really gain some much needed face in the world of wildlife cruelty and rescue.

Edwin certainly knows what's going on ,he runs a special wildlife sanctuary , the reason why they did anything was the whole she bang was going to be exposed because Edwin was going to take the Tiger Temple and the authorities to the supreme court for re - issuing a licence to the Temple after taking it off them late last year..

[nausea]

100-200 thousand baht. The sad thing is those naive people who thought this was going on through some kind of philanthropic motive. Sorry, doesn't exist in Asia, and especially not in Thailand. It's a Western concept.

[lonewolf99]

When I first came here I did the "touristy" stuff.

The Tiger Zoo North of Pattaya used to be called...Tiger Farm... for good reason.

I went with an organised tour group and were given a young lady as a guide to take us around the place.

It was obvious to me that there were a lot of tigers, sometimes 3 or four to a small pen pacing back and forth. They also had a lot of cubs. Openly shown, being fed milk from female pigs that were laid on their sides with their teets sticking through bars for the cubs to suckle from.

I asked the young lady guide if she knew how many cubs were born each year......She did....wait for it......... about 450 cubs each year. I then asked what they did with so many cubs. Sell them to other zoos she said........ well how many zoos round the world need a ready supply of tigers I thought.... But knew straight away what the right answer was. Illegal trade.

I vowed never to go back and I tell everyone that comes here to boycott such places along with the those bloody awful Elephant parks. Most of those elephants are smuggled from the wild in Laos and Cambodia after the older ones have been killed for the ivory. The young are brought here and tortured into submission to be compliant for the Mahoots / Thug jockeys with a pointy stick.

The hub of all that is evil...human and wildlife trafficking....Nothing gets done. The illegal fishing that rapes the seas has been given another 6 months to comply by the EU.... I wonder what Ballless beaurocrat in Brussels got a back hander to keep that going....????

[iReason]

Truly heinous.

And even more shocking, no one knew about it...

[cumgranosalum]

I have criticised Thailand's attitude to wildlife and conservation since my first visit in 1994....but I have to admit I underestimated the various "zoos" involvement in the trade in endangered species.

i mistook intent for incompetence

In hindsight it is easy to join the dots.....it has been clear from the start that almost all people involved in zoos and animal shows in Thailand neither know nor care about animal welfare or conservation, so it would for them be a logical step to increase income by dealing in the market for live animals and corpses that are so popular with Chinese traditional Medicine and other markets.

[lostmebike]

If true, yes this is an appalling act of hypocrisy and cruelty to say the least but isn't it the case that these aren't facts yet and are merely ...

suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketing

Just quoting the report.

[cumgranosalum]

Surprised ?

Yes, I would have thought it more like 100%

It's all very well being wise after the event, but the fact is that hardly anyone realised the extent of involvement - or wrote about in English or Thai....it is possible that the GENUINE SURPRISE generated both here and abroad may result in the Thai authorities actually doing something concrete for the first time ever.

It is the relentless pressure of people like wiek and CEE4life that has brought this to light - not people who sit around posting glib remarks on Thaivisa that imply they knew all along.

Edited June 21, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

If true, yes this is an appalling act of hypocrisy and cruelty to say the least but isn't it the case that these aren't facts yet and are merely ...

suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketing

Just quoting the report.

This has been the kind of attitude that has slowed progress on this issue for years.

You clearly don't understand what "evidence" may or may not be and you certainly don't seem to have a good overview of the situation.

the evidence is that there are FAR TOO MANY unaccounted tigers and other endangered species both alive or dead in Thailand and where they end up is to say the least suspicious..... we also are now - thanks to the raids on the tiger temple, getting to see how this system operates and how ineffective the authorities have been in dealing with it. To suggest that the temple is a "one off" - would - give the EVIDENCE be flying in the face of logic.

[cumgranosalum]

If true, yes this is an appalling act of hypocrisy and cruelty to say the least but isn't it the case that these aren't facts yet and are merely ...

suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketing

Just quoting the report.

This has been the kind of attitude that has slowed progress on this issue for years.

You clearly don't understand what constitutes "evidence" and you certainly don't seem to have a good overview of the situation.

the evidence is that there are FAR TOO MANY unaccounted tigers and other endangered species both alive or dead in Thailand and where they end up is to say the least suspicious..... we also are now - thanks to the raids on the tiger temple, getting to see how this system operates and how ineffective the authorities have been in dealing with it. To suggest that the temple is a "one off" - would - give the EVIDENCE be flying in the face of logic.

Edited June 21, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[gandalf12]

And to think that the Abbott at that tiger temple claims to know nothing about what happened inside? I sure hope his accounting records and his personal assets are discovered and the truth comes out.

He may know nothing there again he could be from Barcelona

[cumgranosalum]

And to think that the Abbott at that tiger temple claims to know nothing about what happened inside? I sure hope his accounting records and his personal assets are discovered and the truth comes out.

He may know nothing there again he could be from Barcelona

the problem with anything to do with a temple and accounts is that they traditionally rely on DONATIONS and these are traditionally in Cash or Kind, so very difficult to trace.

the temple however does have other associated companies - these no doubt qwill deflect blame or any responsibility from the abbot and his acolytes

[clockman]

Please remember, 18% of Thailands population, is Chinese in origin!

[cumgranosalum]

Please remember, 18% of Thailands population, is Chinese in origin!

a pretty facile comment - one can only assume you are making racist implications about TCM.

In fact you could argue that Thai people are 99.9% of Chinese "origin", that comes from "pre-history" population migrations in /S.E. Asia, so where did you get your figure?

[bTW - China is a big place and multi-ethnic]

Edited June 21, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[djlest]

Lets hope the Tiger temple is the start of an avalanche of justice!

[Krataiboy]

In Thailand, where there's brass, there's muck.

[lostmebike]

If true, yes this is an appalling act of hypocrisy and cruelty to say the least but isn't it the case that these aren't facts yet and are merely ...

suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketing

Just quoting the report.

This has been the kind of attitude that has slowed progress on this issue for years.

You clearly don't understand what "evidence" may or may not be and you certainly don't seem to have a good overview of the situation.

the evidence is that there are FAR TOO MANY unaccounted tigers and other endangered species both alive or dead in Thailand and where they end up is to say the least suspicious..... we also are now - thanks to the raids on the tiger temple, getting to see how this system operates and how ineffective the authorities have been in dealing with it. To suggest that the temple is a "one off" - would - give the EVIDENCE be flying in the face of logic.

Attitude!?

Well I'm sorry about that teacher, so sorry.

I just believe pulling the trigger after I know all the facts.

Citing Cites report, Wiek said that the number of tigers for the past nine years had increased from 940 to over 1,400 raising suspicion that about 90 percent of the tiger farms and private zoos might be involved

Sure what happened in Kanchanaburi stinks to high heaven and those involved should be feel the force of the law (if possible here) but i'll repeat myself, when the facts are known, then I will pass judgement on other places.

Edited June 21, 2016 by lostmebike

[SOTIRIOS]

...shucks...and I thought it was because of their benevolent nature ......

...do they even have a word for benevolent....

...or is it.......benevolent = greedy & calculating.....???

[cumgranosalum]

If true, yes this is an appalling act of hypocrisy and cruelty to say the least but isn't it the case that these aren't facts yet and are merely ...

suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketing

Just quoting the report.

This has been the kind of attitude that has slowed progress on this issue for years.

You clearly don't understand what "evidence" may or may not be and you certainly don't seem to have a good overview of the situation.

the evidence is that there are FAR TOO MANY unaccounted tigers and other endangered species both alive or dead in Thailand and where they end up is to say the least suspicious..... we also are now - thanks to the raids on the tiger temple, getting to see how this system operates and how ineffective the authorities have been in dealing with it. To suggest that the temple is a "one off" - would - give the EVIDENCE be flying in the face of logic.

Attitude!?

Well I'm sorry about that teacher, so sorry.

I just believe pulling the trigger after I know all the facts.

Citing Cites report, Wiek said that the number of tigers for the past nine years had increased from 940 to over 1,400 raising suspicion that about 90 percent of the tiger farms and private zoos might be involved

Sure what happened in Kanchanaburi stinks to high heaven and those involved should be feel the force of the law (if possible here) but i'll repeat myself, when the facts are known, then I will pass judgement on other places.

Repeat all you like in doesn't change a thing....the evidence is already there for these places to be close and investigated.....talking about evidence in the way you do simply shows how little you understand......

[lostmebike]

If true, yes this is an appalling act of hypocrisy and cruelty to say the least but isn't it the case that these aren't facts yet and are merely ...

suspected to be involved in wildlife black marketing

Just quoting the report.

This has been the kind of attitude that has slowed progress on this issue for years.

You clearly don't understand what "evidence" may or may not be and you certainly don't seem to have a good overview of the situation.

the evidence is that there are FAR TOO MANY unaccounted tigers and other endangered species both alive or dead in Thailand and where they end up is to say the least suspicious..... we also are now - thanks to the raids on the tiger temple, getting to see how this system operates and how ineffective the authorities have been in dealing with it. To suggest that the temple is a "one off" - would - give the EVIDENCE be flying in the face of logic.

Attitude!?

Well I'm sorry about that teacher, so sorry.

I just believe pulling the trigger after I know all the facts.

Citing Cites report, Wiek said that the number of tigers for the past nine years had increased from 940 to over 1,400 raising suspicion that about 90 percent of the tiger farms and private zoos might be involved

Sure what happened in Kanchanaburi stinks to high heaven and those involved should be feel the force of the law (if possible here) but i'll repeat myself, when the facts are known, then I will pass judgement on other places.

Repeat all you like in doesn't change a thing....the evidence is already there for these places to be close and investigated.....talking about evidence in the way you do simply shows how little you understand......

'might' and 'probably' are not evidence, are they?

Sure what they found at the tiger temple is disgusting but again, I was quoting what the report says.

I'm in agreement that these people that have abused these lovely animals deserve to be punished but when you need to question 'my attitude' and my 'knowledge' of the 'evidence' when in fact this report doesn't state as such then it's you that needs to understand more.

Where does it state definite, verified evidence in THIS report? I only read about suggestions and probabilities.

Please share some verified quotes from any sources available that show definitive trading of animal parts from the zoos, national parks or wherever stated in the report and then maybe we can have a decent discussion about this.

'might' and 'probably' are not evidence, are they?

Sure what they found at the tiger temple is disgusting but again, I was quoting what the report says.

I'm in agreement that these people that have abused these lovely animals deserve to be punished but when you need to question 'my attitude' and my 'knowledge' of the 'evidence' when in fact this report doesn't state as such then it's you that needs to understand more.

Where does it state definite, verified evidence in THIS report?

Please share some verified quotes from any sources available that show definitive trading of animal parts from the zoos or wherever stated in the report.

[cumgranosalum]

This has been the kind of attitude that has slowed progress on this issue for years.

You clearly don't understand what "evidence" may or may not be and you certainly don't seem to have a good overview of the situation.

the evidence is that there are FAR TOO MANY unaccounted tigers and other endangered species both alive or dead in Thailand and where they end up is to say the least suspicious..... we also are now - thanks to the raids on the tiger temple, getting to see how this system operates and how ineffective the authorities have been in dealing with it. To suggest that the temple is a "one off" - would - give the EVIDENCE be flying in the face of logic.

Attitude!?

Well I'm sorry about that teacher, so sorry.

I just believe pulling the trigger after I know all the facts.

Citing Cites report, Wiek said that the number of tigers for the past nine years had increased from 940 to over 1,400 raising suspicion that about 90 percent of the tiger farms and private zoos might be involved

Sure what happened in Kanchanaburi stinks to high heaven and those involved should be feel the force of the law (if possible here) but i'll repeat myself, when the facts are known, then I will pass judgement on other places.

Repeat all you like in doesn't change a thing....the evidence is already there for these places to be close and investigated.....talking about evidence in the way you do simply shows how little you understand......

'might' and 'probably' are not evidence, are they?

Sure what they found at the tiger temple is disgusting but again, I was quoting what the report says.

I'm in agreement that these people that have abused these lovely animals deserve to be punished but when you need to question 'my attitude' and my 'knowledge' of the 'evidence' when in fact this report doesn't state as such then it's you that needs to understand more.

Where does it state definite, verified evidence in THIS report? I only read about suggestions and probabilities.

Please share some verified quotes from any sources available that show definitive trading of animal parts from the zoos, national parks or wherever stated in the report and then maybe we can have a decent discussion about this.

'might' and 'probably' are not evidence, are they?

Sure what they found at the tiger temple is disgusting but again, I was quoting what the report says.

I'm in agreement that these people that have abused these lovely animals deserve to be punished but when you need to question 'my attitude' and my 'knowledge' of the 'evidence' when in fact this report doesn't state as such then it's you that needs to understand more.

Where does it state definite, verified evidence in THIS report?

Please share some verified quotes from any sources available that show definitive trading of animal parts from the zoos or wherever stated in the report.

Yet again you have no idea how to interpret evidence or even what it is.........There's no "might" a "probably" about illegal breeding, improper diet, cages and the taking of cubs away from their mothers to facilitate speed breeding this has been out in the open for years as had written evidence of moving tigers in and out of the country.

you simply are not well enough informed to be commenting on this - just try to make your own assumptions look plausible, but unfortunately it just becomes more and more evident how little you know.

It's ignorance like yours that allows these places to continue their activities. Stop trying to play smart-arse and wake up and smell the coffee.

If you want to make a valid contribution to the discussion at least do the rest of us the courtesy of finding out what it's all about first.

Edited June 21, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Loeilad]

The environmental impact....

One of the worst problems with TCM is the dependence or rather obsession with gathering ingredients from the wild - and of course the rarer the ingredient the more efficacious it is supposed to be.

We all know about tiger bones, bear bile, ivory and Rhino horn (did you know about ivory??) but TCM pillages ingredients from all over - in particular endangered species of all the kingdoms, plant animal and fungi.

 

Much TCM has been found to be made up of or contain traces of animals that are endangered and trade-restricted. CITES is particularly concerned about TCM’s role in the

The most obvious would be tiger or rhino parts but this is only the tip of the iceberg - TCM is not just endangering animals but also PLANTS all over the world, species after species is being brought to the edge of extinction to supply and industry that has no benefit to its customers whatsoever.

In the west where TCM is seen as an “alternative” medicine practitioners realise that there market comprises largely of those with “alternative” lifestyles and therefore issue statement deploring the use of Rhino and Tiger parts, but conveniently ignore the use of endangered flora and the fact that the belief in TCM is the core of the problem of the proliferation of the illegal trade in flora and fauna in S. E. Asia and places like the USA.

 

DNA testing is revealing the sordid ingredients used in this industry........

“Some products contained material from animals classified as vulnerable or critically endangered, such as the Asiatic black bear and the Saiga antelope—just as the producers claimed. But often, the medicine also harbored ingredients not mentioned on the packaging, the team reports online today in PLoS Genetics. "For example, a product labeled 100 percent Saiga antelope contained considerable quantities of goat and sheep DNA," - http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/04/dangers-chinese-medicine-brought-light-dna-studies

 

Bottom line TCM is not proven to work at all and is based on theories of "treatment" - developed at a time when people knew nothing about the human body or how it worked at all....and life expectancy then was about 40 years.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Loeilad