Thai Justice Minister Paiboon: No legalization of narcotic drugs

[webfact]

Gen Paiboon: No legalization of narcotic drugs



BANGKOK: -- The government will not legalise narcotics drugs but will put more emphasis on rehabilitating drug addicts with the Ministry of Public Health as the lead organization in dealing with the addicts, Justice Minister Paiboon Kumchaya said on Wednesday.

He disclosed that several governments in the world had changed their perception towards narcotics drugs by legalizing some narcotic drugs and scrapping death penalty for narcotics trafficking while treating addicts as patients instead of criminals deserving penalties.

At the United Nations General Assembly last year, the minister said Thailand told the assembly that he was not ready to legalize narcotic drugs but had made drug addiction social and health issues.

He said that most governments had realized that waging war against drug abuses in the past 20 plus years was a failure as the problem has not eased but tends to escalate – hence the change of perception towards the drugs.

Thailand, said the minister, has amended narcotic law to the effect that penalties to be meted out against the culprits should be in proportion to their crime. He added that the government disagreed with death penalty for serious drug offenders.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/gen-paiboon-no-legalization-narcotic-drugs/


-- Thai PBS 2016-06-23

[ukrules]

Paiboon is right, the war on drugs will absolutely 100% fail always and forever but lets not forget this guy is a complete ass of the highest order.

He proved this with his 300m rules on alcohol, what happened to them ?

[FourAces]

when you legalise narcotics drugs you will save Tax payers money on the courts,the prison system, hospital/rehab and other taxpayer funded processes related to that type of crime with its punishment and rehabilitation.

Treating Drug addicts as patients then putting them on rehab programs, takes the tax payer funded pressure off the courts and the prison system, leaving only tax payer funded addict rehab programs.

Thailand can't do this as the main players in the narcotics drugs industry ( as it is an industry ) are the police and military generals, province and local officials.

Saying that they are going to treat drugs differently and have a program for addicts is just hot air and telling United Nations General Assembly something that like to hear, looking to be doing something, when they really have no intention of doing so.

[shirtless]

These guys have no idea there is a big world outside of Thailand, where the benefits of taxing narcotics far out weighs outlawing them,

[Winniedapu]

Paiboons had a talking to... serious loss of face. Again. First the Temple flips him the bird, now he gets his bottom kicked and has to back down on legalizing speed.

Still, where there's no sense there's no feeling, so I don't expect he minds...

Winnie

Edited June 23, 2016 by Winniedapu

[hyperdimension]

Paiboons had a talking to... serious loss of face. Again. First the Temple flips him the bird, now he gets his bottom kicked and has to back down on legalizing speed.

He never did suggest legalizing methamphetamine, only a step towards decriminalization, which was taking it of the "dangerous narcotics" list. So there's nothing very different in this news article from his previous public statement. It was mainly just to clarify that he did not say "legalization" as others may have misinterpreted. Decriminalization is not the same as legalization.

Any change that is opposite to the tired old failed war is a welcome change. I am glad that at least someone in authority in Thailand has been giving some attention to the progress of other countries. Some repressive countries have still stuck with the old ways and continue to fight the war, with Singapore as an extreme example as I had described in detail in the other thread in this post and a following post: Thai Justice Minister: ya ba should be excluded from list of narcotic drugs (post 180)

However what has not been mentioned that is very important is factual information and education. Authorities must be careful not to disseminate false information (like Singapore still does) because this breeds mistrust. Reefer Madness worked in the 1930s, but these days people have access to the internet in which truthful information can easily be found. It is a shame that Singapore is still stubbornly following the outdated scare-mongering propaganda approach, and they've been doubling down in their efforts. I had a look at some of Singapore's brainwashing material, and with the Central Narcotics Bureau's Education Toolkit for Educators and Youth Counsellors in particular I could spend all day discrediting the many false statements it contains, some of which are as laughable as those contained in the Reefer Madness video. Pushing incorrect information is a very wrong way to tackle a problem.

Here is just one example on the internet of information about methamphetamine that is far more factual than scare-mongering. It is an interview with someone who works for a drugs testing service. Any member of the public can send in their drugs and they will say what is actually in them:

Another thing that should be done is allow and foster open and intelligent discussion and debate about drugs, with involvement from a variety of members of the public, including unbiased qualified medical professionals. The Justice Minister has set the ball rolling with his statements about the new major shift in mindset.

Edited June 23, 2016 by hyperdimension

[RickTik]

On a global scale, cannabis civil liberties should be restored.

When that it is finally done, the world will be a much more peaceful and better place.

Cannabis legalization should come with a discussion of both the benefits and responsible use.

[DTRACKER300]

They used there brains for once. GOOGLE Wirth it's weight in gold

[DTRACKER300]

Legalizing Speed is like legalizing ice. You will turn people into dangerous people. And any foreigner that disagrees does not understand the effects of these narcotics. Laziness by a government will only make crime grow making a drug easier to get is outrageous.

[CanInBKK]

Legalizing Speed is like legalizing ice. You will turn people into dangerous people. And any foreigner that disagrees does not understand the effects of these narcotics. Laziness by a government will only make crime grow making a drug easier to get is outrageous.

Correct. I think there is a clear line between Cannabis and methamphetamines, wherein the decriminalization of one results in less unnecessary legal costs but decriminalization of the other would result in more thefts/robberies and other potentially violent crimes.

If you haven't seen what methamphetamines can do to a person and how addictive they are, your opinion in this thread is unqualified no matter how many YouTube videos you reference.

[phycokiller]

drug laws enable police to enter homes and harass people, thats why US governments did the war on drugs, its fascism in my book, the law serves no other purpose, but you can be sure the Thai military want to keep these laws as an extra weapon against the people

[GeckosDiving]

.

[phycokiller]

Legalizing Speed is like legalizing ice. You will turn people into dangerous people. And any foreigner that disagrees does not understand the effects of these narcotics. Laziness by a government will only make crime grow making a drug easier to get is outrageous.

lets not forget that members of air forces all round the world regularly use methamphetamines, not to mention millions of school children, so to ban it on the one hand but dish it out legally to others is, well, depends on weather you think humans should be equal under the law

[moon47]

He said that most governments had realized that waging war against drug abuses in the past 20 plus years was a failure as the problem has not eased but tends to escalate – hence the change of perception towards the drugs.

It only took the ever so smart government officials 20+ years to figure that one out.

And they still do not know what to do about it. =[

[hyperdimension]

Legalizing Speed is like legalizing ice.

"Speed" refers to the impure form of methamphetamine. The impurities may be caffeine as shown in the video I posted above. This makes it less dangerous than "ice" or "crystal meth", which is pure methamphetamine, because the effects (as well as addictive potential) are weaker than if the pure form is taken.

You will turn people into dangerous people. And any foreigner that disagrees does not understand the effects of these narcotics.

That's a very generalizing statement, and the same could be applied to ethanol, which is legal. You have probably been misled by media sensationalism. Most illegal drug consumption occurs without problem. You don't hear about it because consumers would sensibly be careful to keep their consumption private for fear of prosecution and stigmatization by mainstream society.

If you've never tried methamphetamine then it is you who "does not understand the effects", and you are simply regurgitating scare-mongering propaganda. I have been to entertainment events in my youth in which just about everyone around had consumed a stimulant, including methamphetamine and MDMA, and problems were quite rare. Of course, in the rare occasions that problems have occurred at such events, the media are quick to publicize the incidents and demonize illegal drugs, often without even knowing exactly which drug it was (which is actually very important to know).

Just calling methamphetamine a "narcotic" reveals your ignorance. A narcotic drug is one that induces sleep. Methamphetamine keeps one wide awake for hours, and is therefore not a narcotic. The fact that governments use the word "narcotic" in the names of their anti-drug agencies and in the content of their drug policy jargon is evidence that they had never properly consulted medical professionals when they had devised their drug policies.

Laziness by a government will only make crime grow

Governments have been fighting this expensive war for decades. Do you think they've failed because they have been lazy?

making a drug easier to get is outrageous.

That's exactly what happened when ethanol ("alcohol") was legalized.

[robertthesculptor]

Um...question, how does he define the word Narcotic?

Maybe there needs to be a clearer translation for him....see 5 year jail time for an e-cig...

[hyperdimension]

He said that most governments had realized that waging war against drug abuses in the past 20 plus years was a failure as the problem has not eased but tends to escalate – hence the change of perception towards the drugs.

It only took the ever so smart government officials 20+ years to figure that one out.

I agree that it's quite late, but it's better late than never, so any shift in the opposite direction is reason to celebrate, after so many years of injustice and extremism.

And they still do not know what to do about it. =[

There is now plenty of information on the internet about what can be done. The body of truthful knowledge about drugs has grown a lot in recent years. So I'd hope that they would do some reading on the matter.

The U.K.'s Royal Society for Public Health report Taking a New Line on Drugs was just published last week and is a good summary of the current situation and outlines steps that can be taken to fix drug policy. The references section has an excellent list of academic literature (including results of scientific studies).

Here are some other must-read reports for guidance in policy decision-making:

Ten-point plan on reforming criminal justice responses to drugs by Penal Reform International and the International Drug Policy Consortium - "Ten steps to guide countries interested in moving away from solely punitive responses to drugs and in developing health and human rights-based approaches." This would be very relevant reading material for the Justice Minister.

Taking Control: Pathways to Drug Policies That Work by The Global Commission on Drug Policy whose members include Kofi Annan and Richard Branson and former leaders of countries. Here's a short description:

The Commission’s 2014 report broke ground by advancing and globalizing the debate over drug control measures and its alternatives. Anticipating the 2016 United Nations General Assembly Special Session on drugs (UNGASS), the report provides clear-cut pathways for Member States. The five recommendations for more effective drug policies include: putting the health and community safety first, ensuring equitable access to controlled medicines, ending the criminalization of people who use or possess drugs, promoting alternatives to incarceration for low-level participants in illicit drug markets, including cultivators; and encouraging policy innovations such as legally regulated markets, beginning with, but not limited to cannabis, coca leaf and certain other psychoactive substances. Never had so many former world leaders spoken out in support of legal, regulation of currently illicit drugs.

[hyperdimension]

Um...question, how does he define the word Narcotic?

Maybe there needs to be a clearer translation for him....see 5 year jail time for an e-cig...

Yes, as I had mentioned earlier, the word "narcotic" is a misnomer when it's used to refer to illegal drugs in general. It does show a level of cluelessness by those who use it. It would be correct when it is used to refer to drugs that make people feel sleepy, regardless of whether they are legal or not.

[nausea]

I would say the war on drugs is a complete waste of time. It creates criminals, it creates criminal networks. Alcohol and tobacco are the standard, the most dangerous drugs on earth. You legislate, you tax it. Use these resources elsewhere - corruption would be an obvious target, followed by pedophilia. But maybe these guys have other agendas.

[someonelovesyou]

Tobacco products that have paid taxes are not narcotic drugs, but any that haven't are narcotic drugs. It's pretty simple really, its a scary sounding word to fight a war on drugs where it suits the government, while they choose which drugs to peddle themselves.

[hyperdimension]

Tobacco products that have paid taxes are not narcotic drugs, but any that haven't are narcotic drugs.

The word "narcotic" doesn't actually have anything to do with taxes or legal status. It is derived from the word narcosis which means:

1. a state of stupor or drowsiness.

2. a state of stupor or greatly reduced activity produced by a drug.

[someonelovesyou]

Tobacco products that have paid taxes are not narcotic drugs, but any that haven't are narcotic drugs.

The word "narcotic" doesn't actually have anything to do with taxes or legal status. It is derived from the word narcosis which means:

1. a state of stupor or drowsiness.

2. a state of stupor or greatly reduced activity produced by a drug.

Very true, but it's not the commonly understood meaning. Otherwise, alcohol would be commonly known as a narcotic drug, and meth would be commonly known to be the exact opposite.

[DaddyWarbucks]

I would say the war on drugs is a complete waste of time. It creates criminals, it creates criminal networks. Alcohol and tobacco are the standard, the most dangerous drugs on earth. You legislate, you tax it. Use these resources elsewhere - corruption would be an obvious target, followed by pedophilia. But maybe these guys have other agendas.

Agreed.

Those lessons were learned in the USA when Prohibition [1920-33] created a frankenstein called the Mafia.

[dhream]

Legalizing Speed is like legalizing ice. You will turn people into dangerous people. And any foreigner that disagrees does not understand the effects of these narcotics. Laziness by a government will only make crime grow making a drug easier to get is outrageous.

You dont understand the dynamics of addiction. Beer is more dangerous than meth.

Very few meth users go 'crazy' in a way that harms others, unlike beer drinkers, every night sees drunken fights in Thailand.

Many 'foreingers' who support legalizing are doctors, judges, senior police. There are Thai doctors who share the 'foreigners' opinions.

Plenty of information on Portugal who've decriminalised all drugs for over 15 years now. The use rates, and even hiv infections, actually reduced in this timeframe.

So who is on the right track?

Asia with increasing use, or Portugal? It's not a trick question!

Ice replaced cocaine. So much for prohibition ending the drug problem. 45 years of social chaos and trillions wasted. And still you deny the facts. Tragic.

Edited June 23, 2016 by dhream

[dhream]

Legalizing Speed is like legalizing ice. You will turn people into dangerous people. And any foreigner that disagrees does not understand the effects of these narcotics. Laziness by a government will only make crime grow making a drug easier to get is outrageous.

Correct. I think there is a clear line between Cannabis and methamphetamines, wherein the decriminalization of one results in less unnecessary legal costs but decriminalization of the other would result in more thefts/robberies and other potentially violent crimes.

If you haven't seen what methamphetamines can do to a person and how addictive they are, your opinion in this thread is unqualified no matter how many YouTube videos you reference.

I have used meth. Several times in years past. I have no desire to use it now. It was fun. I didnt rob or fight anyone. As have many many people I know. Half are women. They are all responsible people with happy families now.

Its true that some violent low class people use drugs.

Its true some people become badly addicted. It's also true some people become alcoholic. What's the difference? Only the law and media myths about drugs being the End of the world! Thats just nonsense. Millions use responsibly and secretly. Millions.

The sheer demand and ever larger drug hauls (most of which get through the police net) suggest that silent growing millions are using all over Asia in all classes. Prohibition will never win. The end is near. Almost all Governments will be forced to legalise and tax when the cost of waging this war increasingly alone becomes extortionate. It will one day be treated like beer.

Edited June 23, 2016 by dhream

[hyperdimension]

English isn't you're first language is it? No problem, but before you make stupid comments you should compare the definition of the word "narcotic" with the current legal status of methamphetamines and if you're still not sure just go back and re-read the title of the article.

If you had actually read all posts in this thread you would already know that it is incorrect to use the word "narcotic" to refer to illegal drugs, and anyone who does so (including government officials, law enforcement officers, news writers and reporters) is showing their incorrect knowledge of the facts about drugs and hence lowers their credibility. Anyone who continues to use the word incorrectly just sustains their lowered credibility. Ask a medical professional what a "narcotic" is and he or she would likely correctly respond by saying "a drug that makes you feel sleepy".

In case English isn't you're first language either, here is my earlier post with an English dictionary reference to the word "narcosis":

Tobacco products that have paid taxes are not narcotic drugs, but any that haven't are narcotic drugs.

The word "narcotic" doesn't actually have anything to do with taxes or legal status. It is derived from the word narcosis which means:

1. a state of stupor or drowsiness.

2. a state of stupor or greatly reduced activity produced by a drug.

Edited June 24, 2016 by hyperdimension

[2fishin2]

Paiboons had a talking to... serious loss of face. Again. First the Temple flips him the bird, now he gets his bottom kicked and has to back down on legalizing speed.

He never did suggest legalizing methamphetamine, only a step towards decriminalization, which was taking it of the "dangerous narcotics" list. So there's nothing very different in this news article from his previous public statement. It was mainly just to clarify that he did not say "legalization" as others may have misinterpreted. Decriminalization is not the same as legalization.

Any change that is opposite to the tired old failed war is a welcome change. I am glad that at least someone in authority in Thailand has been giving some attention to the progress of other countries. Some repressive countries have still stuck with the old ways and continue to fight the war, with Singapore as an extreme example as I had described in detail in the other thread in this post and a following post: Thai Justice Minister: ya ba should be excluded from list of narcotic drugs (post 180)

However what has not been mentioned that is very important is factual information and education. Authorities must be careful not to disseminate false information (like Singapore still does) because this breeds mistrust.

worked in the 1930s, but these days people have access to the internet in which truthful information can easily be found. It is a shame that Singapore is still stubbornly following the outdated scare-mongering propaganda approach, and they've been doubling down in their efforts. I had a look at some of Singapore's brainwashing material, and with the Central Narcotics Bureau's Education Toolkit for Educators and Youth Counsellors in particular I could spend all day discrediting the many false statements it contains, some of which are as laughable as those contained in the Reefer Madness video. Pushing incorrect information is a very wrong way to tackle a problem.

Here is just one example on the internet of information about methamphetamine that is far more factual than scare-mongering. It is an interview with someone who works for a drugs testing service. Any member of the public can send in their drugs and they will say what is actually in them:

Another thing that should be done is allow and foster open and intelligent discussion and debate about drugs, with involvement from a variety of members of the public, including unbiased qualified medical professionals. The Justice Minister has set the ball rolling with his statements about the new major shift in mindset.

Complete and udder BS. Please dispute these pics. And you say we have the meth legality incorrect?

Ask the family and friends of these people what they think. BS!

[CanInBKK]

English isn't you're first language is it? No problem, but before you make stupid comments you should compare the definition of the word "narcotic" with the current legal status of methamphetamines and if you're still not sure just go back and re-read the title of the article.

If you had actually read all posts in this thread you would already know that it is incorrect to use the word "narcotic" to refer to illegal drugs, and anyone who does so (including government officials, law enforcement officers, news writers and reporters) is showing their incorrect knowledge of the facts about drugs and hence lowers their credibility. Anyone who continues to use the word incorrectly just sustains their lowered credibility. Ask a medical professional what a "narcotic" is and he or she would likely correctly respond by saying "a drug that makes you feel sleepy".

In case English isn't you're first language either, here is my earlier post with an English dictionary reference to the word "narcosis":

.....

Gosh, I stand corrected. Every word in the English language has a single and unwavering definition.

My bad reading that Webster's dictionary has a definition of "narcotic" as : a drug (as marijuana or LSD) subject to restriction similar to that of addictive narcotics whether in fact physiologically addictive and narcotic or not

[hyperdimension]

Webster's dictionary has a definition of "narcotic" as : a drug (as marijuana or LSD) subject to restriction similar to that of addictive narcotics whether in fact physiologically addictive and narcotic or not

Sometimes incorrect use of a word can creep into dictionaries if the incorrect usage becomes widespread enough. You can see that Webster's dictionary is covering themselves with the additional "whether in fact physiologically addictive and narcotic or not". They are saying that the word is often incorrectly used.

This matter about the word "narcotic" may appear on the surface to be frivolous and nitpicking, but the wider issue is that for so long there has been a lot of incorrect and misleading information about drugs that have been disseminated to the masses, and that includes incorrect terminology. Often the use of incorrect terminology is also accompanied by incorrect information. People need to become aware of what is correct and what is not when it comes to the topic of drugs.

[Matt96]

It is a shame that Singapore is still stubbornly following the outdated scare-mongering propaganda approach, and they've been doubling down in their efforts.

thereby this approach Singapore has less heroine users per thousand than any other country in the world (about 200 people for 5million population. even Saudi Arabia has more) it's absolutely worth executing of a few drug pushers.

there should be zero tolerance to drugs. and if some farang junkies are not OK with that - why don't they go back to their wonderful homelands to indulge there passion for drugs?

no one needs junkies neither in Thailand nor in Singapore. accept it or leave it.