Thai Justice Minister: ya ba should be excluded from list of narcotic drugs

[farcanell]

So it's meth?

There ya go... Get in early and call 1 800 yabarus and place your order now

[hyperdimension]

It's kind of weird to see half of the thread's participants saying it's the stupidest idea they have ever heard (probably while drinking their 5th pint of beer of the day btw) while they other agree that it makes sense.

It's generally a division between the informed and the ignorant.

[hyperdimension]

The rich kids will be more than happy now, raging around the road...........

They already do that on ethanol ("alcohol"). I don't have evidence on hand about whether driving skills are better when on methamphetamine, but I'd guess so because it keeps you wide awake and alert, far more so than from a cup of coffee.

Ethanol gives one a lot of confidence, but it's false confidence, and that causes a lot of problems.

Edited June 18, 2016 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

Meanwhile, from a very surprising quarter: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/breaking-good-svkvggj2k

Here is a response to that article from The Guardian: The Times of London Calls for Drug Decriminalization, Hints at Legalization

Here is the official Royal Society for Public Health web page announcing the report: Taking a New Line on Drugs

Here is a direct link to the report (PDF): Taking a New Line on Drugs

Everyone should read this report, especially those who are against the decriminalization of drugs. To not do so would be an indication of ignorance.

Edited June 18, 2016 by hyperdimension

[Wilsonandson]

BANGKOK: -- The Justice Ministry has been consulting with relevant agencies about the proposal to exclude methamphetamine or Ya Ba from a list of narcotics drugs and to treat is a normal drug so as to convince drug addicts to come forward for treatment and rehabilitation.

"It's okay guys! Don't torch the meth lab!"

Edited June 18, 2016 by Wilsonandson

[macksview]

It is interesting that Microsoft want in to the now lucrative Ganja business since many US states have decriminalised it....

Drugs are dangerous as is the legal and illegal business behind them.

There is enough death on the roads in Thailand without more drug crazed people roaming he pavements....

Im all for a rethink on the ridiculous unwinnable war on narcotics, however Im wondering what the criterion for driving with narcotics in your blood stream will be? Difficult one with ganja as apparently it hangs around for weeks.!!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

usually work on a figure of 2 or 3 days for meth and ice.

ice is a far more frightening thing than meth.

[does]

Do you mean to argue that more people use yaba than alcohol in absolute terms?

A (very) rough guess - nearly half of Thai adults drink, but less than 10% take yaba (again, a rough guess - but clearly more people drink than take yaba). The damage from those who drink is massive in terms of traffic accident, broken families, physical health, etc. So clearly, the damage resulting from alcohol is much great in absolute terms than that of yaba.

That's the only point I made (and they way the article should be interpreted).

I think he means the *overall* damage to society (in relative terms). Needless to say much more people drink alcohol than take yaba.

As to the tone of your comment... what drug are you taking everyday? Ego pills? Cynicism tablets? Smart drugs?

He must have gotten his information about the hazards of yaba from the medical council. Only they would give such misinformation saying yaba was less hazardous than cigarettes or alcohol. One has to wonder what drugs this guy is taking on a daily basis to make such a report.

If he meant what you said then he would again be very misinformed. The crime rate would rise causing more damage to innocent people as well as the death rate and the medical needs for those people.
Ohhh! Maybe you are forgetting about the consequences of legalizing such a drug with the user only. Or perhaps you are just trying to goad me with this troll.

[mtls2005]

The "authorities" could do a much better job on the production side, clamping down on the trade in precursors, which seem to literally fall off the truck here.

And they could also look a bit harder for the larger-volume traffickers.

But suspect both of these are 'controlled' by well paying interests?

This is a tough nut to crack (no pun), there is no one single magic solution, but it's certainly a good idea to have discussions, debate ideas and come up with treatment/education/support plans.

They are losing generations, and just can't keep building juvenile detention facilities and prisons.

[dhream]

Ok Mr. smarty pants minister, and while you at it, deregulate and exclude heroin, cocaine and all other dangers drugs

Try doing some research about the drugs you demonize.

'Common sense' and science has proved addicts would be no more visible on the streets than drunken bums.

Portugal and the Czech Republic decriminalized EVERYTHING over a decade ago. Both their drug problems and HIV have plummeted. Explain that smarty pants ezzra.

using the same common sense, and how about excluding all other crimes hoping that the all criminals

will see the error of their ways and become law abiding citizens again.....

this last bit of your comment is idiotic - not an argument. Edited June 19, 2016 by dhream

[dhream]

Error repeat post

Edited June 19, 2016 by dhream

[dhream]

You can be for or against drug liberisation.

But you can't make reality go away by wheeling out a lost drug war as 'they're not being tough enough' or worse blocking out logic and science.

Both the firing squad and the 'kid glove' approach have been tried and tested in real life.

I'm delighted to report that the 'bleeding hearts' have carried the day.

You see, when you stop panicking like a ten year old girl with bubble gum in her pony tail, you discover that legalising drugs would be no better or worse than alcohol and cigs.

There will always be problem drinkers. But does that mean we should all be teetotal?

The addictive potential of all drugs is overrated.

Harm is done by dirty unscientific dosages. Just like moonshine does the same.

If drugs are the domain of the desperate loser class. Where are they getting the billions to finance the trade? By stealing your DVD player?

Do wise up.

who is more likely to sell your kids drugs? A dealer or a licenced pharmacy?

If your kid ODs at a party wold you rather their mates called an ambulance or ran away leaving them to die for fear of the police?

DIRTY needles not drugs spread HIV to addicts who then spread it to the community via sex workers or innocent spouses.

Meth is the unintended consequence of the moral panic on cocaine, a very desirable drug worldwide. Well done tough guys! What a spectacular own goal.

LSD and weed and ecstasy all have important legitimate medical applications that are being stifled by sheer stupid groundless moral panic.

LSD is virtually harmless if used responsibly. As is weed. Ecstasy is manageable when legally dosed.

Let's not even get started on the sideshow of organised crime reaping Billions the Taliban financing terror selling poppy's while governments forgo billions in legal 'sin tax' drug revenues.

Conservatives love to wave 'Common sense' as their battle flag. When are they going to apply it to a problem that not only can't be beat. It's beating them.

Pride cometh before a fall.

Edited June 19, 2016 by dhream

[dhream]

Error.

Edited June 19, 2016 by dhream

[dhream]

The "authorities" could do a much better job on the production side, clamping down on the trade in precursors, which seem to literally fall off the truck here.

And they could also look a bit harder for the larger-volume traffickers.

But suspect both of these are 'controlled' by well paying interests?

This is a tough nut to crack (no pun), there is no one single magic solution, but it's certainly a good idea to have discussions, debate ideas and come up with treatment/education/support plans.

They are losing generations, and just can't keep building juvenile detention facilities and prisons.

You're half right.

Prohibition at every level is unworkable. Or it would have worked by now! But I guess that's too much common sense for some to grasp.

Surrender to win. When the government and big alcohol and tobacco control production and supply, not prohibit, but realistically control the market, the problem will be controlled as well.

Everyone assumes ending prohibition would mean chaos.

It is prohibition that has created chaos. Thailand overwhelmed. Australia overwhelmed. Indonesia overwhelmed.

Portugal doing just fine.

What part of that reality don't the 'authorites' understand.

[dhream]

It is interesting that Microsoft want in to the now lucrative Ganja business since many US states have decriminalised it....

Drugs are dangerous as is the legal and illegal business behind them.

There is enough death on the roads in Thailand without more drug crazed people roaming he pavements....

Im all for a rethink on the ridiculous unwinnable war on narcotics, however Im wondering what the criterion for driving with narcotics in your blood stream will be? Difficult one with ganja as apparently it hangs around for weeks.!!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

usually work on a figure of 2 or 3 days for meth and ice.

ice is a far more frightening thing than meth.

ICE is meth. 555 and you guys want a voice in the debate?

If this is representative of the anti drug lobbYS drug knowledge were all doomed. Not by drugs but by ignorance passing as a basis for policy.

[dhream]

Drugs and driving. You can't legislate for that until you've actually tested drivers under controlled conditions.

Any of you anti geniuses paused to consider how many millions of people drive while using pharmaceuticals that warn MAY CAUSE DROWSINESS DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY hate to break it to you but a motosai qualifies as heavy machinery.

So where is the moral panic about that then. Meh! idiots basing their arguments on the politics of irrational fear and disproven propaganda.

[dhream]

It's kind of weird to see half of the thread's participants saying it's the stupidest idea they have ever heard (probably while drinking their 5th pint of beer of the day btw) while they other agree that it makes sense.

It's generally a division between the informed and the ignorant.

Amen to that. They NEVER read anything that contradicts their tired old loser anti-drug argument.

The measure of a man is his ability to admit he was wrong. And seek to expand his understanding of the world.

[Mook23]

He must have gotten his information about the hazards of yaba from the medical council. Only they would give such misinformation saying yaba was less hazardous than cigarettes or alcohol. One has to wonder what drugs this guy is taking on a daily basis to make such a report.

Daily portion of Thainess pills?!

However, I'm a big fan of decriminalisation of the users of any drug. I took my portion of dope when I was young and the only one im still hooked at is the good old booze which brings in millions of euros in my nannystate home country. In fact, opening a bar there is guaranteed to make you rich in just 5 years. I know as I had 2 bars in the past. ? this being said I wish I had continued smoking pod and not drinking alcohol. I'm not a problematic user but it is poison and the older I get the more I feel how it fatigues me and affects my sleep.

[dhream]

He claimed that, in medical science, methamphitamines are less hazardous to health than cigarettes and liquor but the society at large accept cigarettes and liquor as normal.

What... ??

I do not condone alcohol or cigarettes but I have not ever seen an alcoholic or chronic smoker get skin sores loose excessive amounts of weight let alone other forms of poor health caused directly from the abuse of the substance in such a short period of time.

It takes years to get lung or liver problems while a meth binge of only a few weeks will show drastic reduction in health.

Not to mention the "crazy" behavior, they do not call it "ya baa" for nothing you know... !!

I still can not get used to the incredibly stupid comments and actions of supposed "educated" people in this country and others... =[

I guess it has not crossed your mind that if government supplied cocaine was available not to mention other chemicals much less harmful than meth. Such as yaabaa *speed* not meth. That meth would actually stop being made and sold.

You guys are so one track and unimaginative when it comes to your arguments that perhaps a little acid trip would free your mousetrap minds for once. 555

When was the last time you saw a wealthy weekend cocaine user with sores all over them? You would have no idea they even used unless they told you on Monday morning. 555

Who cares what you condone? Everyone should have the ability to choose their own poison. My body not yours.

Edited June 19, 2016 by dhream

[hyperdimension]

The "authorities" could do a much better job on the production side, clamping down on the trade in precursors, which seem to literally fall off the truck here.

That would be fixed once-and-for-all with legalization and regulation of drugs. I've suggested a number of times over the years that the Government Pharmaceutical Organization could produce some of the drugs that are currently illegal. They already produce sildenafil ("Sidegra", generic version of Viagra) which is widely used recreationally for enhancement of sexual experiences largely without problem.

The Royal Society for Public Health's "Taking a new line on drugs" report mirrors what I've been suggesting for years. One is that recreational use of all drugs (and not just caffeine, sildenafil, ethanol and nicotine) should become an accepted, or at least tolerated, activity in society. Harm reduction should be the focus of resources to prevent problems and to tackle problems that arise from drug consumption when they do. Additionally, I would suggest that the usage of the term "drug abuse" should cease because there is actually no such thing as "abuse" of drugs if we accept that drugs can be used for a multitude of reasons or purposes. e.g. ethanol is used as a disinfectant, chemical solvent, as fuel for motor vehicles, and consumed as a recreational drug. I would replace "abuse" simply with the word "consumption". Pharmaceutical drugs should not have to be only for treating disease, and I'm sure many of you satisfied consumers of sildenafil would agree.

The report was good at highlighting the fact that different drugs have different kinds and levels of potential harm. their suggested "harm profiles" approach should act as the basis for an overhaul of drug policy, because the silly drug classification system (e.g. "Class A", "Class B") has no correlation with harm, yet many people still incorrectly believe that class A drugs are the most dangerous.

The report should have expanded a little more on information dissemination and education to prevent harm. This is important in a world in which anyone could easily and freely buy any drug after legalization, some of which may be quite harmful depending on how they're consumed. My suggestion is to do something similar to how pharmaceutical drugs are sold - with detailed information slips on optimal dosage, safest ways to consume the drug, dangerous interactions with other drugs, things to be careful of whilst experiencing the effects, and what to do in case of emergency. A lot of drug-consumption-related deaths in the past could have been prevented if the users had been better informed. Even today, millions of people consume ethanol without such knowledge, and in the process may damage their health (in both the short and long term) or even die (either suddenly from overdose or eventually from disease caused by chronic high consumption). It is not entirely the peoples' fault that they aren't well-informed about how to safely consume ethanol or other drugs. Major responsibility should lie with the drug producers to adequately inform their customers, just as pharmaceutical companies inform their customers with information in or on the box. So why don't ethanol producers currently provide any safe consumption guidelines for their customers? Probably because they don't care, and they may think that it would hurt profits if they start writing about the very real potential dangers of their products, and the law does not currently require it. This needs to change.

Edited June 19, 2016 by hyperdimension

[dhream]

The "authorities" could do a much better job on the production side, clamping down on the trade in precursors, which seem to literally fall off the truck here.

That would be fixed once-and-for-all with legalization and regulation of drugs. I've suggested a number of times over the years that the Government Pharmaceutical Organization could produce some of the drugs that are currently illegal. They already produce sildenafil ("Sidegra", generic version of Viagra) which is widely used recreationally for enhancement of sexual experiences largely without problem.

The Royal Society for Public Health's "Taking a new line on drugs" report mirrors what I've been suggesting for years. One is that recreational use of all drugs (and not just caffeine, sildenafil, ethanol and nicotine) should become an accepted, or at least tolerated, activity in society. Harm reduction should be the focus of resources to prevent problems and to tackle problems that arise from drug consumption when they do. Additionally, I would suggest that the usage of the term "drug abuse" should cease because there is actually no such thing as "abuse" of drugs if we accept that drugs can be used for a multitude of reasons or purposes. e.g. ethanol is used as a disinfectant, chemical solvent, as fuel for motor vehicles, and consumed as a recreational drug. I would replace "abuse" simply with the word "consumption". Pharmaceutical drugs should not have to be only for treating disease, and I'm sure many of you satisfied consumers of sildenafil would agree.

The report was good at highlighting the fact that different drugs have different kinds and levels of potential harm. their suggested "harm profiles" approach should act as the basis for an overhaul of drug policy, because the silly drug classification system (e.g. "Class A", "Class B") has no correlation with harm, yet many people still incorrectly believe that class A drugs are the most dangerous.

The report should have expanded a little more on information dissemination and education to prevent harm. This is important in a world in which anyone could easily and freely buy any drug after legalization, some of which may be quite harmful depending on how they're consumed. My suggestion is to do something similar to how pharmaceutical drugs are sold - with detailed information slips on optimal dosage, safest ways to consume the drug, dangerous interactions with other drugs, things to be careful of whilst experiencing the effects, and what to do in case of emergency. A lot of drug-consumption-related deaths in the past could have been prevented if the users had been better informed. Even today, millions of people consume ethanol without such knowledge, and in the process may damage their health (in both the short and long term) or even die (either suddenly from overdose or eventually from disease caused by chronic high consumption). It is not entirely the peoples' fault that they aren't well-informed about how to safely consume ethanol or other drugs. Major responsibility should lie with the drug producers to adequately inform their customers, just as pharmaceutical companies inform their customers with information in or on the box. So why don't ethanol producers currently provide any safe consumption guidelines for their customers? Probably because they don't care, and they may think that it would hurt profits if they start writing about the very real potential dangers of their products, and the law does not currently require it. This needs to change.

Excellent post. I'm not sure the anti camp possess the intellect to get beyond the fact that you're not writing a fear diatribe. Then they just scroll down to post babble like

'Ice is more dangerous than meth' that sums it up for those monkeys with keyboards. Sadly.

[hyperdimension]

Dear Justice Minister Paiboon Kumchaya and all others concerned,

Please review the following detailed guidelines that have been prepared by Penal Reform International and the International Drug Policy Consortium in order that they may assist in overhauling the entire drug policy framework of Thailand:

Ten-point plan on reforming criminal justice responses to drugs - "Ten steps to guide countries interested in moving away from solely punitive responses to drugs and in developing health and human rights-based approaches."

Here are just the titles to each point:

01 Decriminalise
02 Modernise drug law enforcement strategies
03 Ensure due process, including fair trials
04 Adopt proportionate sentences
05 Adopt alternatives to incarceration
06 End the death penalty for drug offences
07 Provide health-focused services in prison
08 Support post-release social reintegration
09 Close down compulsory detention centres for drug users
10 Adopt a gender-sensitive approach

[hyperdimension]

'Ice is more dangerous than meth' that sums it up for those monkeys with keyboards.

Yes, it's technically the same thing. Though "ice" is also a slang term for pure methamphetamine (which may also called "crystal meth"), which is different from impure "speed" or "Ya ba" which are bought and consumed in tablet form. Though speed can also be in impure powder form for nasal consumption.

For those who don't know what it's like to be on speed, here is a part of an episode of a talk show called "Spuiten en Slikken" that was broadcast on Dutch TV in which the host snorts some speed:

[Moonmoon]

at 1st i was thinking wat the hell? legalise yaba? but no its not that. he is recognising the problem and choosing rehab instead of incarcerate. I am definitely against taking it off the list as a narcotic. ppl smuggling and pushing this drug should be criminalise, but ppl abusing this drug should be treated as a patient. So there. hope the Justice Minister can consider what i said

[ExpatLife]

Harmless shisha and vaping illegal and enforced????? Makes your head spin 555.

Shisha is actually really bad for your health, worse than average cigarettes

[212Roger]

"Ya-Ba," aka "meth" is not physically addicting, nor is cocaine. They are all habitual.

[rijit]

^ semantics they are 'addictive ' people get a habit and it becomes an addiction. the only thing that alters between drugs is the ' strength of the withdrawal.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[denkiblue555]

It is interesting that Microsoft want in to the now lucrative Ganja business since many US states have decriminalised it....

Drugs are dangerous as is the legal and illegal business behind them.

There is enough death on the roads in Thailand without more drug crazed people roaming he pavements....

Im all for a rethink on the ridiculous unwinnable war on narcotics, however Im wondering what the criterion for driving with narcotics in your blood stream will be? Difficult one with ganja as apparently it hangs around for weeks.!!

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

usually work on a figure of 2 or 3 days for meth and ice.

ice is a far more frightening thing than meth.

I do remember the days of being able to get 'diet pills' from the pharmacies here years ago, but what is the difference between Ya Ba and ice (do they call it Ya Ice??).

Because people do seriously fuc*$d up stuff on ice and I don't see legalising it having much of a positive effect on society.

IMHO, people on;

Heroin - just wanna sleep / lounge

Coke - just wanna talk and be overly social

MDMA - just wanna hug / dance

Acid - just wanna enjoy the hallucinations

Weed - just wanna relax

But on this Ice stuff, people seem to just do absolutely crazy stuff with almost no regard for human life - like broad daylight robberies of a major supermarket with a meat cleaver etc.!

FWIW, I do support what Spain / Portugal are doing regarding this matter, I just don't understand this Ice thing.

[drgoon]

he's got a vested interest in it

[cumgranosalum]

i think one thing this thread shows is how profoundly ignorant about drugs most TV members are. Non-drug takers rely on assumptions and old media from the 1970s and those who have taken any drug feel that they are some sort of authority. Of course the worst are those who repeatedly become intoxicated or inebriated on alcohol and don't think it's a drug....asnd don't realise how dangerous it is compared to most illegal drugs.

[hyperdimension]

the worst are those who repeatedly become intoxicated or inebriated on alcohol and don't think it's a drug....asnd don't realise how dangerous it is compared to most illegal drugs.

There are still many people who claim to be "against drugs", yet don't realize or still won't accept that ethanol ("alcohol") is a recreational drug, and a relatively harmful one, moreso than some illegal drugs. It may not entirely be their fault, because school education systems are also partly to blame. When students are taught about drugs, the "just say no" mantra usually refers only to illegal drugs like heroin and cocaine. Ethanol may not have been included in the list of drugs, and may instead be seen as a drink that students could freely have once they become an adult.

We also often see the separation of alcohol from the "drugs" category with phrases like "drugs and alcohol" or "drugs or alcohol", as if to say that ethanol is not a drug or does not belong in a "drugs" category. Such phrases should not be used because it is misleading. A more accurate phrase to use instead is "drugs including alcohol".

The Singapore government is a major example of people still exhibiting the misperception of ethanol as a non-drug. Here is Singapore's speech at the UNGASS 2016 event in April, where world leaders met to discuss the world drug problem: Singapore Statement at the UNGASS 2016 Plenary Session - Speech by Mr K Shanmugam, Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Law

They say that they "want a drug-free Singapore, not a drug-tolerant Singapore", yet they've just held Beerfest Asia 2016, a 4-day celebration of beer at the Marina Promenade. There was also Craft Singapore in March, a 3-day festival of craft beer. How can they be so openly supportive of ethanol, a relatively harmful drug, whilst claiming to have zero-tolerance to recreational drugs? It's extreme hypocrisy at the country level.

The speech asks this question rhetorically: "You wouldn't knowingly and happily give drugs to your teenage children, would you?" Yet many parents do just that when they buy cola drinks, coffee or chocolate for their children. I guess, like ethanol, they don't regard caffeine as a recreational drug, when it actually is. Whether it's good to give children caffeine is a different matter (I believe it should be left to parents to decide after being informed of the drug's effects, not the state).

As highly-educated as the population of Singapore may be, there isn't even any open discussion and debate about drugs, because there is still a strong stigma against anyone who may appear to be in support of recreational drugs that are not in the small list of recreational drugs (though they don't call them "drugs") that are accepted in mainstream society.

Singapore has even been trying hard to influence other South-East Asian nations to adopt their extremist views ahead of the UNGASS 2016 event by holding an anti-drugs conference in August 2015 "aimed at pushing back the momentum of drug liberalisation policies that more countries and cities have adopted in recent years": S'pore leading Asian meet to stand united against drugs

There's no doubt that Singapore would not be happy to hear the Thai Justice Minister's remarks. I hope Thailand can see the hypocrisy and idiocy of Singapore as I've described above, and distance themselves from their ideologically extremist and conflicting views, and instead base future policy on science and statistics. The References section of the Taking a New Line on Drugs report is an excellent list to explore.

I hope a new era of open discussion and debate in Thailand about drugs will follow on from the Justice Minister's public announcement, leading onto more open-minded and intelligent views of the many complex issues, and eventually a more sensible evolution of drug policy in the near future.

Edited June 20, 2016 by hyperdimension