Jump to content

Led Zeppelin did not steal 'Stairway to Heaven'


webfact

Recommended Posts

Led Zeppelin happy 'Stairway' origin question settled
By BRIAN MELLEY

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Led Zeppelin did not steal a riff from an obscure 1960s instrumental for the introduction of its classic rock anthem "Stairway to Heaven," a federal jury decided Thursday, legally settling a debate that has divided music fans for decades.

The trust of the late Randy Craig Wolfe claimed that Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page lifted a passage that Wolfe, better known as Randy California, wrote for "Taurus," a short work he recorded with his band Spirit in 1968.

The "Taurus" recording contains a section that sounds like the instantly recognizable start of "Stairway," but it was never played for jurors. In trying to show the works were substantially similar, the trust had the tricky task of relying on expert renditions from the sheet music filed with the U.S. Copyright Office.

Jurors, who deliberated about five hours, reached their verdict shortly after having videos of a guitarist performing both passages in question replayed in court. Those renditions seemed more like distant cousins than twin siblings.

Page, 72, and singer Robert Plant, 67, both wearing suits and with their long hair pulled back in ponytails, hugged their lawyers after prevailing.

"We are grateful for the jury's conscientious service and pleased that it has ruled in our favor, putting to rest questions about the origins of 'Stairway to Heaven' and confirming what we have known for 45 years," the two said in a statement issued by a publicist."

Jurors found the trust had proven Page and Plant had "access" to "Taurus," meaning they would have been familiar with it — something they denied on the witness stand.

"The reality is that we proved access, but (the jury) could never hear what (Page and Plant) had access to," said trust attorney Francis Malofiy, who called the verdict sad and disappointing. "It's bizarre."

Page and Plant, who wrote the "Stairway" lyrics, said their creation was an original. In several hours of often-animated and amusing testimony, they described the craft behind one of rock's best-known songs, all the while denying knowledge of one of the genre's least-known tunes.

Plant cracked up the courtroom when said he didn't remember most people he had hung out with over the years.

In closing arguments, Malofiy criticized Page and Plant's "selective" memories and "convenient" truths.

Experts dissected both compositions, agreeing mainly that they shared a descending chord progression that dates back three centuries.

Trust experts, however, noted several other similarities that made the two works unlike the many other tunes they were compared to, including "My Funny Valentine."

Led Zeppelin's lawyer said the trust failed to prove a case that should have been brought more than 40 years ago when Wolfe was alive and Page and singer Robert Plant would have had better memories.

"How can you wait a half century and criticize people ... 45 years later for the delay you caused?" Peter Anderson said.

Wolfe, who drowned in 1997 saving his son at a beach in Hawaii, had talked about suing, but lawyers didn't want to take an old case, said Glen Kulik another lawyer for the trust. A 2014 Supreme Court ruling over "Raging Bull" allowed a copyright suit to be filed anytime with damages dating back three years from the court filing and extending to the future.

Malofiy asked jurors to give Wolfe a songwriting credit and unspecified millions of dollars in damages.

The trial took jurors and observers lucky to pack into the courtroom on a musical journey through the late 1960s and early 1970s, when Spirit, a California psychedelic group that blended jazz and rock was achieving some stardom as the hard-rocking British band was founded.

Stops on the tour of testimony included Spirit shows at "love-ins" during the "Summer of Love," Led Zeppelin's 1968 U.S. debut as opener for Spirit and Vanilla Fudge and, finally, to a country house in the south of England where Page, Plant and keyboardist and bassist John Paul Jones described how "Stairway" was born.

Page said his ambition was to write a song that would accelerate to a crescendo and he first shared the opening at Headley Grange in the spring of 1970 with Jones to get an ally in his scheme.

Plant recalled sitting by the fire when Page played the intro on acoustic guitar and he offered the start of a couplet he had been working on: "There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold/and she's buying a stairway to heaven."

Jurors never heard a note from Page or Plant live, but they were treated to vintage recordings of the band creating the song. Plant could be heard singing off key and humming sections without lyrics and Page played chords that didn't make the final cut.

When the full recording was played, Page bobbed his head and moved to the music.

The rock stars didn't chat with fans in the gallery and they were accompanied everywhere by bodyguards. One afternoon, a group of women clapped and Page flashed a smile as they crossed the courthouse corridor.

The band has settled at least six other cases accusing them of copyright violations, including the songs, "Whole Lotta Love," ''The Lemon Song," and "Dazed and Confused."

This was the first case they took all the way to trial, said Steven L. Weinberg, a copyright lawyer who watched the case.

"This jury verdict in favor of Led Zeppelin is monumental," Weinberg said. "But In terms of the internet pundits and armchair quarterbacks who are comparing the two audio recordings, I think that debate will go on for a long time to come."

aplogo.jpg
-- (c) Associated Press 2016-06-24

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Highest paid lawyers can get a lot done. Look at the OJ case.

I like Page and have seen the Zeps thrice in live concerts during their early years. Even so, the riff was lifted, plain and simple. Nearly identical for 8+ bars.

Did Page and Plant win other cases against, for example, Albert King, for stealing King's line "'cause I got you in the sights of my love gun" on 'Whole Lotta Love.'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Highest paid lawyers can get a lot done. Look at the OJ case.

I like Page and have seen the Zeps thrice in live concerts during their early years. Even so, the riff was lifted, plain and simple. Nearly identical for 8+ bars.

<snip>

Blame it on the highly paid lawyers? Yeah, right! cheesy.gif

You're wrong, the jury gave their decision, get over it. tongue.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there can be no doubt that the Zeps took the intro In Stairway to Heaven from Taurus by Spirit. I Listened several times to both, and the similarity's are to great.

Judge for yourselves...

https://www.google.be/search?q=taurus+spirit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=-PFsV_aBMorCaIiRr5gI

I like Led Zeppelin but the evidence is overwhelming. Justice were justice is due !!!

On the other hand I don't have any stakes in eider song, so if one or the other wines a court case ?, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, but I still think justice has not been fully served.

Sins Randy California has died,....it's up to lawyers and business managers to try to reap the benefits from the creation of the talented musician.

Randy California was not just a other talented guitar player, he played with Jimmy Hendrix at hes invitation...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_California

Stairway.. from the Zeps is and will always be one of my favored songs....but I will keep in mind that it was inspired by another great musician....Randy California.

Best regards.

Edited by off road pat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealing songs is one thing.

Stealing introductory riffs? Give me a break. Only in America would the highly remunerative for participants justice system be used to fight such petty civil matters.

If anybody should be prosecuted it should be Spirit - for failing to make a legendary rock track out of a good beginningtongue.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealing songs is one thing.

Stealing introductory riffs? Give me a break. Only in America would the highly remunerative for participants justice system be used to fight such petty civil matters.

If anybody should be prosecuted it should be Spirit - for failing to make a legendary rock track out of a good beginningtongue.png

That 'introductory riff' to Stairway IS the song though, in the same way as the introductory riff to 'smoke on the water' is. Take away both distinctive riffs from either song and you're left with fairly generic chord progressions.

I'm a Zep fan too, I love Jimmy Page as a pure guitarist, but as others have pointed out the Zep have been known as enthusiastic 'borrowers' for a long time now. Far more credentialed musos then my good self have made the connection, and I think they have a point.

Regardless, it won't stop my enjoyment of the Mighty Zep eh! guitar.gif

Edited by NumbNut
Link to comment
Share on other sites

there can be no doubt that the Zeps took the intro In Stairway to Heaven from Taurus by Spirit. I Listened several times to both, and the similarity's are to great.

Judge for yourselves...

https://www.google.be/search?q=taurus+spirit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=-PFsV_aBMorCaIiRr5gI

I like Led Zeppelin but the evidence is overwhelming. Justice were justice is due !!!

On the other hand I don't have any stakes in eider song, so if one or the other wines a court case ?, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, but I still think justice has not been fully served.

Sins Randy California has died,....it's up to lawyers and business managers to try to reap the benefits from the creation of the talented musician.

Randy California was not just a other talented guitar player, he played with Jimmy Hendrix at hes invitation...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_California

Stairway.. from the Zeps is and will always be one of my favored songs....but I will keep in mind that it was inspired by another great musician....Randy California.

Best regards.

Seeing as we are going down this line then Randy California stole it from this 17th century classical piece..

http://www.guitarplayer.com/artists/1013/did-this-17th-century-work-influence-stairway-to-heaven/58547

The case is over the jury has decided, they were obviously not as tone deaf as some

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealing songs is one thing.

Stealing introductory riffs? Give me a break. Only in America would the highly remunerative for participants justice system be used to fight such petty civil matters.

If anybody should be prosecuted it should be Spirit - for failing to make a legendary rock track out of a good beginning:P

That 'introductory riff' to Stairway IS the song though, <snip>

Nonsense! What about the other 7 1/2 minutes?

What you mean is, the introductory riff alerts you to what is coming next, a brilliant track, and gets you ready to enjoy it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealing songs is one thing.

Stealing introductory riffs? Give me a break. Only in America would the highly remunerative for participants justice system be used to fight such petty civil matters.

If anybody should be prosecuted it should be Spirit - for failing to make a legendary rock track out of a good beginning:P

That 'introductory riff' to Stairway IS the song though, <snip>

Nonsense! What about the other 7 1/2 minutes?

What you mean is, the introductory riff alerts you to what is coming next, a brilliant track, and gets you ready to enjoy it.

That is exactly my point though, I would lay odds that taken in isolation the other 71/2 minutes of 'Stairway' would be mostly unrecognisable to the average music fan. The introductory riff, or more accurately arpeggio, is an entirely different matter. It is an instantly recognisable classic riff/arpeggio that just happens to be the intro and you'll hear it being played in guitar shops around the world (well, where it hasn't been banned) for very good reason. It is the 'hook' the entire song hangs on, great as the following 71/2 minutes of 'Stairway' happen to be.

Riffs are big business. Led Zep have generated some of the most distinctive and iconic riffs in the music industry. Could you imagine Zep classics Whole Lotta Love, Immigrant Song, Black Dog, Kashmir, Rock and Roll, Heartbreaker, Houses of the Holy, just to name a few, minus their riffs, reduced to backing chord progressions? I can't!

Some bands and some songwriters have built entire careers out of an assembly line of distinctive riffs alone, especially hard rock/metal bands where the guitar is central to the group like AC/DC and Metallica. And in countless examples of popular music, from Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode to the present day, the core, the hook, the SOUL of the entire song rests on the 4 bar riff employed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealing songs is one thing.

Stealing introductory riffs? Give me a break. Only in America would the highly remunerative for participants justice system be used to fight such petty civil matters.

If anybody should be prosecuted it should be Spirit - for failing to make a legendary rock track out of a good beginning:P

That 'introductory riff' to Stairway IS the song though, <snip>

Nonsense! What about the other 7 1/2 minutes?

What you mean is, the introductory riff alerts you to what is coming next, a brilliant track, and gets you ready to enjoy it.

That is exactly my point though, I would lay odds that taken in isolation the other 71/2 minutes of 'Stairway' would be mostly unrecognisable to the average music fan. The introductory riff, or more accurately arpeggio, is an entirely different matter. It is an instantly recognisable classic riff/arpeggio that just happens to be the intro and you'll hear it being played in guitar shops around the world (well, where it hasn't been banned) for very good reason. It is the 'hook' the entire song hangs on, great as the following 71/2 minutes of 'Stairway' happen to be.

Riffs are big business. Led Zep have generated some of the most distinctive and iconic riffs in the music industry. Could you imagine Zep classics Whole Lotta Love, Immigrant Song, Black Dog, Kashmir, Rock and Roll, Heartbreaker, Houses of the Holy, just to name a few, minus their riffs, reduced to backing chord progressions? I can't!

Some bands and some songwriters have built entire careers out of an assembly line of distinctive riffs alone, especially hard rock/metal bands where the guitar is central to the group like AC/DC and Metallica. And in countless examples of popular music, from Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode to the present day, the core, the hook, the SOUL of the entire song rests on the 4 bar riff employed.

But the fact is the appegio concerned goes back to at least the 17 century..

Led Zep could sue AC/DC for lifting their riffs, the remaining members of the beatles could sue Oasis for the riffs they lifted, little Richard and Chuck Berry could sue the Beatles for the stuff they lifted

Anyone who plays an instrument lifts ideas, riffs etc from others, thats how they learn to play the instrument in the first place...

Why didnt Led Zep sue eric clapton for the verses in let it grow as its identical to the intro to stairway...the same progression

This law suit was a money grubbing excercise, within music there is very little which is original, just rehashing of what went before, Robert Johnsons estate could sue all of rock musics catalog, as a lot of guitarists have ripped stuff from Robert Johnson

Edited by Bunnychow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is exactly my point though, I would lay odds that taken in isolation the other 71/2 minutes of 'Stairway' would be mostly unrecognisable to the average music fan. The introductory riff, or more accurately arpeggio, is an entirely different matter. It is an instantly recognisable classic riff/arpeggio that just happens to be the intro and you'll hear it being played in guitar shops around the world (well, where it hasn't been banned) for very good reason. It is the 'hook' the entire song hangs on, great as the following 71/2 minutes of 'Stairway' happen to be.

Riffs are big business. Led Zep have generated some of the most distinctive and iconic riffs in the music industry. Could you imagine Zep classics Whole Lotta Love, Immigrant Song, Black Dog, Kashmir, Rock and Roll, Heartbreaker, Houses of the Holy, just to name a few, minus their riffs, reduced to backing chord progressions? I can't!

Some bands and some songwriters have built entire careers out of an assembly line of distinctive riffs alone, especially hard rock/metal bands where the guitar is central to the group like AC/DC and Metallica. And in countless examples of popular music, from Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode to the present day, the core, the hook, the SOUL of the entire song rests on the 4 bar riff employed.

But the fact is the appegio concerned goes back to at least the 17 century..

Led Zep could sue AC/DC for lifting their riffs, the remaining members of the beatles could sue Oasis for the riffs they lifted, little Richard and Chuck Berry could sue the Beatles for the stuff they lifted

Anyone who plays an instrument lifts ideas, riffs etc from others, thats how they learn to play the instrument in the first place...

Why didnt Led Zep sue eric clapton for the verses in let it grow as its identical to the intro to stairway...the same progression

This law suit was a money grubbing excercise, within music there is very little which is original, just rehashing of what went before, Robert Johnsons estate could sue all of rock musics catalog, as a lot of guitarists have ripped stuff from Robert Johnson

I'm not debating the money side of it, that's your angle, I don't care who's trying to cash this baby, not interested, don't give a bugger. What I am interested in is what you could term an 'influence' in this or any song as opposed to a 'borrow'. Influence being on the mild side of the ledger with borrow being a bit more identically obvious, either in riff, lyric, melody or phrase.

I agree that musicians from the dawn of time have been influencing and borrowing between themselves. As you say, how else did they all originally learn their instruments? It's how I got my start on guitar too, so no argument there.

What is indisputable though is that compared to their contemporaries Zep have form in this area, going back quite a few years. Read the link below detailing numerous cases where Zep themselves have agreed to belated song credits for some of their recorded works.

Link

This wiki page I found on musical plagiarism is interesting too. Led Zeppelin are mentioned four distinct times, more then any other artist on the page.

Wiki Musical Plagiarism

This doesn't detract from my enjoyment of Zep tunes, far from it. As you rightfully say, and as the link above says too, Zep are far from being alone in this area. But as to what degree is just between 'influence' or 'borrow'? I'll leave that to better informed folks then myself to judge.

Rock on mate guitar.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.








×
×
  • Create New...