So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[GuestHouse]

4 minutes ago, i claudius said:

What did Brexit supporters gain ? well for a start the pleasure of reading all the whiners who wanted to remain on here ,i read your posts, laugh and think tough titty , moan on , you still lost and we WON

 

 

I suggest you make the most of this and enjoy it while you have the opportunity. 

[i claudius]

4 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

 

I suggest you make the most of this and enjoy it while you have the opportunity. 

 

I will and am ,thank you , and will do for many years to come ,  while you sit in front of your computer frothing at the mouth

Edited August 28, 2016 by i claudius

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

"they haven't a leg to stand on" ?

 

Perhaps it shows just how disconnected the UK-politicians are perceived to be, that so many people turned out to vote against their advice, a protest-vote which unexpectedly carried-the-day ?

 

Or perhaps it shows a level of concern about Immigration, which over-rides any rational thought, about the other consequences of Brexit ?

 

Or perhaps it demonstrates that, while the entry of the UK into the EEC forty-years-ago has produced many positive results, the recent steps to expand from Western-Europe into a much-larger block does not have sufficient support among the Brits ?

 

Or perhaps it shows that there are a number of serious divisions in the UK, which aren't being addressed sufficiently robustly, the economic need of Scotland & Northern-Ireland to stay within the socialist support-network, or the South-East vs the rest-of-England split ?

 

Or a perfect-wave combination of these & other factors ?

 

No, no, no, no, no. 

 

Just not possible.

 

It was down to 3 things and 3 things only, according to some.

 

1. Racism

 

2. Xenophobia 

 

3. Lack of education.

 

Which highlights quite clearly where the lack of education lies.

[SgtRock]

20 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

 

I suggest you make the most of this and enjoy it while you have the opportunity. 

 

Why ?

 

Have you got a date for the sky falling in or WW3 breaking out ?

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

I will and am ,thank you , and will do for many years to come ,  while you sit in front of your computer frothing at the mouth

 

It was a bitter disappointment for Germany. They were so close.....

[GuestHouse]

9 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Why ?

 

Have you got a date for the sky falling in or WW3 breaking out ?

 

Have you got a date for Brexit?

 

 

And just so we can judge if we ever get there a definition of what Brexit will actually be?

 

 

 

[SgtRock]

14 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Have you got a date for Brexit?

 

 

And just so we can judge if we ever get there a definition of what Brexit will actually be?

 

 

 

 

I could not care less whether Brexit happens or not. I just happen to believe that the UK would be better off out of the EU.

 

I will ask you again.

 

48 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

I suggest you make the most of this and enjoy it while you have the opportunity. 

 

Why ?

 

What stunning piece of information do you have that warrants your statement ?

 

Let me guess, nothing.

 

As a Non - Brit, why are you all over this thread like a rash ?

[Ricardo]

Let's take a stab at what's going to happen next  ...  open mouth & insert foot  ...  hostages-to-fortune-R-Me !

 

The fall in the Pound & confidence will increase prices in the high-street & at the petrol-pump, this may already have started, there will be some beneficial effect on exports eventually, but not enough.

 

All hope of fiscal prudence or book-balancing will be abandoned, so that the national-debt continues to rise.  Many promises will be made to special-interest groups such as farmers, that they will not be seriously hurt and that the subsidies will continue to flow.

 

The government will try to negotiate some new trade-deals direct, but the key one with the EU will get hung-up over the continuing of freedom-of-movement, being an essential sticking-point.

 

Brexit-voters will become frustrated when they don't get immediately, what they thought they were going to get, and will look for someone to blame  ...  cue Boris & Nigel for-starters.

 

Theresa May will try to spin things out, possibly making the actual Exit the key topic for the next general-election, which may come early if enough MPs vote that it should.

 

Jeremy will win the leadership vote for the Labour Party, and will continue to promise lots of worthy 80s-style left-wing policies, which will be unfunded and anyway he won't get into power to deliver on. He'll continue to be ambivalent over Brexit, despite have nominally been a Bremainer, since he knows that many working-class potential-Labour-voters do want out.

 

The parliamentary Labour Party may split, and a new socialist party emerge, or they may run for the Tories or (less likely) the Lib-Dems, who will remain resolutely pro-Europe.

 

The Scots will be revolting, wanting to stay in, and will demand a referendum on independence again, they want to Bremain but the vote might go either way.  Northern-Ireland will feel like taking the same route, becoming a small independent-state within the EU, if they can.

 

All this will be good for newspaper-sales, bad for racist-attacks, and God Knows how it will affect the overall economy !

 

And we'll goggle from afar, here in Thailand, as everything goes pear-shaped ! 

 

That last is the one I would feel most confident in  ...

[happy Joe]

I am convinced Europeans and I am pleased to see Brexiters to wade in shit they created themselves:

 

 - GBP has lost only 10% (really 15% year on year)
 - GBP will go up, so, so, for sure ...
 - Europe with Germany will accept all our terms.
 - USA will enter into trade war  (but EU does just compete on equal terms with the US trade)
 - Other countries are also leaving (Actually the EU never have been so united watching UK debacle)
 - The Scots will leave, not problem, they are not rich. 
 - Our industry is strong, it will can easily compete with Asian productions, even without the EU protection.
 - The City will retain its privileges for trade with the EU, since the loss of the goose that lays golden eggs would be too cruel.
 - Not to mention the economy of £ 350M each week to devote to building hospitals..
 
I will stop here because the list would be endless but all these whimsical messages can be reading here, on this forum.

 

Note that for now UK is still part of the EU and that the current poor performance is linked exclusively to speculation. Tomorrow the negative events will materialize with bad index procession, as advertised.

 

But there will always Sgt-Guignol to say we are the winners.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by happy Joe

[PattayaBoy]

I doubt they will quit for real.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/27/2016 at 1:54 PM, GuestHouse said:

 

Since when have facts ever played a part in the Brexit campaign?

Since when have facts ever played a part in any politicians campaign?

 

We'd probably have to go back MANY decades to find a 'top' politician that actually told the truth about everything . 

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

The very concept of "getting inside a Brexiteer's head" makes any rational mind boggle!

 

Poor old Brexiteers - everyone is looking at them accusingly and they haven't a leg to stand on. 

I don't think there is a moment in history in any country where such a large portion of a population has publicly humiliated themselves so profoundly and now they have to face the fact they were part of the daftest decision of the4 century.

 

There is no way thinking person would want to put themselves in that headspace!

 

 

I'm still trying to understand why some 'remainers' are desperate to portray 'brexiteers' as 'making any rational mind boggle'/humiliated themselves/daftest decision/no thinking person would think that way'  etc. etc.

 

And your post was even more derogatory than my summary!

[GuestHouse]

3 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

I could not care less whether Brexit happens or not. I just happen to believe that the UK would be better off out of the EU.

 

I will ask you again.

 

 

Why ?

 

What stunning piece of information do you have that warrants your statement ?

 

Let me guess, nothing.

 

As a Non - Brit, why are you all over this thread like a rash ?

 

It's not a stunning piece of information I have, its the stunning absence of a Brexit plan.

----

I have not introduced my nationality into the conversation and I'll thank you not to do so.

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, i claudius said:

What did Brexit supporters gain ? well for a start the pleasure of reading all the whiners who wanted to remain on here ,i read your posts, laugh and think tough titty , moan on , you still lost and we WON

 

Won what? You talk as if it were a football match! You won nothing ... a falling currency and more to come once the business of extricating yourself from a 40.year partnership shows itself to be a very difficult and economically painful task. Immigration concerns won the day ... so how's that one working out for you? We won't be out of the EU anytime soon so the immigration levels will continue to increase ... indeed, the economic impact has yet to be felt, so it may well be the case that the public will be asked again ... at an election. That's what die-hard brexiteers fear the most. Meanwhile, the three amigos, Boris, Liam and David fight amongst themselves ... fiddling while Rome burns.

 

We all lost. The U.K. Economy has been the fastest growth economy since 1973 not despite the EU, because of it. In a club of that size you have to compromise, build coalitions and fight for the things you want and don't want. Given that immigration is an issue for many countries, you'd think we could have done a better job in that respect. 

[dick dasterdly]

Its pretty obvious why the brexiteers voted that way.

 

The 'open door' within the EU has resulted in wages falling for the lowest paid/the EU bureaucracy and politicians are overpaid/the EU is over bureaucratic etc. etc.  And there are no signs that this is likely to change.

 

To make it worse, the cost of this EU 'exuberance' is partly paid by the UK - not a winning formula for the poorly paid!

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Its pretty obvious why the brexiteers voted that way.

 

The 'open door' within the EU has resulted in wages falling for the lowest paid/the EU bureaucracy and politicians are overpaid/the EU is over bureaucratic etc. etc.  And there are no signs that this is likely to change.

 

To make it worse, the cost of this EU 'exuberance' is partly paid by the UK - not a winning formula for the poorly paid!

 

An economy that is less attractive to inward investment and that no longer has free unfettered access to a 500 million plus market next door is a job and wage hike engine? I beg to differ.

 

When the three Brexit ministers are shown to be the deluded clowns that they are ... we'll all know the truth on these promises ... but many in the UK will find that difficult to face up to ... "It would have been so much worse in the EU" will be the cry! 

[SgtRock]

15 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

It's not a stunning piece of information I have, its the stunning absence of a Brexit plan.

----

I have not introduced my nationality into the conversation and I'll thank you not to do so.

 

I never asked you to introduce your Nationality, nor did I disclose yours.

 

I simply asked, why, as a Non Brit you are all over this thread like a rash ?

 

Stab in the dark, somewhere along the line you have a vested interest in the UK remaining a part of the EU.

 

What are those vested interests ?

[dick dasterdly]

18 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

It's not a stunning piece of information I have, its the stunning absence of a Brexit plan.

----

I have not introduced my nationality into the conversation and I'll thank you not to do so.

Surely it should be the government to come up with a plan in the event the referendum vote was to 'leave?

 

The government has (or is able to obtain) all the relevant information to come up with a plan in the event of a 'leave' vote, whereas any 'leave' supporters can only point out the reasons to leave.

 

They were in no position to come up with a plan until they had access to all the information.

Edited August 28, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

An economy that is less attra'ctive to inward investment and that no longer has free unfettered access to a 500 million plus market next door is a job and wage hike engine? I beg to differ.

 

When the three Brexit ministers are shown to be the deluded clowns that they are ... we'll all know the truth on these promises ... but many in the UK will find that difficult to face up to ... "It would have been so much worse in the EU" will be the cry! 

You're quite welcome to believe that individual EU countries will refuse to deal with the UK as they have no concern for their exports to the UK.

 

It seems a bit unlikely to me, but let's watch and see whether EU countries do so.  If you're right, you can come back and tell me 'I told you so'.

 

Personally, I think EU countries will be just as keen on trading with the UK as the UK is to trade with those countries.

[dick dasterdly]

18 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

An economy that is less attractive to inward investment and that no longer has free unfettered access to a 500 million plus market next door is a job and wage hike engine? I beg to differ.

 

When the three Brexit ministers are shown to be the deluded clowns that they are ... we'll all know the truth on these promises ... but many in the UK will find that difficult to face up to ... "It would have been so much worse in the EU" will be the cry! 

Once EU citizens are no longer able to work for the minimum wage (or less....), I suspect wages will have to rise for the poorest in the UK.

 

As always, it boils down to supply and demand - and employers need employees.  Once the very cheapest wage source has gone, then wages for the poorest will hopefully rise.

 

Having said this, I'm pretty sure the politicians will find a way to continue the source of cheap labour .

 

Edit - It suits their career and money chasing plans as they obtain consultancies/directorships etc. etc. - which is pretty much (apart from power) all politician care about.

Edited August 28, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[GuestHouse]

8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Surely it should be the government to come up with a plan in the event the referendum vote was to 'leave?

 

The government has (or is able to obtain) all the relevant information to come up with a plan in the event of a 'leave' vote, whereas any 'leave' supporters can only point out the reasons to leave.

 

They were in no position to come up with a plan until they had access to all the information.

 

In most respects I agree with this but would add that it is not simply for the government to formulate a plan and/or gather information. The government must, under parliamentary law, place the plan and options before parliament to debate.

 

The sovereignty of the UK resides with parliament, Brexit and the eventual 'deal' and/or 'options' to the 'deal' have huge constitutional implications.

 

There is no argument to remove parliament from the line by line, item by item debate on constitutional change.

 

So while we seem to agree in principal, the devil is in the detail.

[GuestHouse]

20 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

I never asked you to introduce your Nationality, nor did I disclose yours.

 

I simply asked, why, as a Non Brit you are all over this thread like a rash ?

 

Stab in the dark, somewhere along the line you have a vested interest in the UK remaining a part of the EU.

 

What are those vested interests ?

 

Keep stabbing in the dark Sgt, I'm not about to feed your need to introduce any detail or aspect of my nationality into this discussion.

 

Take note one response making a guess has been removed.

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

In most respects I agree with this but would add that it is not simply for the government to formulate a plan and/or gather information. The government must, under parliamentary law, place the plan and options before parliament to debate.

 

The sovereignty of the UK resides with parliament, Brexit and the eventual 'deal' and/or 'options' to the 'deal' have huge constitutional implications.

 

There is no argument to remove parliament from the line by line, item by item debate on constitutional change.

 

So while we seem to agree in principal, the devil is in the detail.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're saying that the brexiteers had no access to all the information necessary to form a plan in the event of a leave vote?

 

But that the 'leave' vote by the population should only be 'considered'  by the politicians (and/or lawyers) - who should be able to over-ride the vote?

Edited August 28, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[SgtRock]

6 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Keep stabbing in the dark Sgt, I'm not about to feed your need to introduce any detail or aspect of my nationality into this discussion.

 

Take note one response making a guess has been removed.

 

 I understand your comprehension is not what it should be.

 

Let me make myself crystal clear,

 

I have NO interest in your Nationality as I have already said here.

 

30 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

I never asked you to introduce your Nationality, nor did I disclose yours.

 

I have no idea what was removed as I did not post it neither did I see it.

 

I did ask you this

 

31 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

Stab in the dark, somewhere along the line you have a vested interest in the UK remaining a part of the EU.

 

What are those vested interests ?

 

Which for some reason you are avoiding like a dose of the clap.

 

Why ?

[AlexRich]

20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're quite welcome to believe that individual EU countries will refuse to deal with the UK as they have no concern for their exports to the UK.

 

It seems a bit unlikely to me, but let's watch and see whether EU countries do so.  If you're right, you can come back and tell me 'I told you so'.

 

Personally, I think EU countries will be just as keen on trading with the UK as the UK is to trade with those countries.

 

They won't refuse to deal with us ... of course not, but they will exact a penalty for doing so ... tariffs or free movement or contributions to the EU budget ... or a combination of all three. 

 

I'd rather not say I told you so ... I'd rather we put the eventual deal in front of the UK people and ask them to approve or reject it. That, I can accept ... but not a referendum that turned out to be a protest vote on immigration.

 

 

[AlexRich]

19 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Once EU citizens are no longer able to work for the minimum wage (or less....), I suspect wages will have to rise for the poorest in the UK.

 

As always, it boils down to supply and demand - and employers need employees.  Once the very cheapest wage source has gone, then wages for the poorest will hopefully rise.

 

Having said this, I'm pretty sure the politicians will find a way to continue the source of cheap labour .

 

Edit - It suits their career and money chasing plans as they obtain consultancies/directorships etc. etc. - which is pretty much (apart from power) all politician care about.

 

Until Article 50 is invoked I suspect everyone who enters the UK from Europe will have rights of remain ... but if the economy suffers you'll have more people looking for less work opportunities ... the poorest are not likely to benefit. In my opinion.

[SgtRock]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I'd rather not say I told you so ... I'd rather we put the eventual deal in front of the UK people and ask them to approve or reject it. That, I can accept ... but not a referendum that turned out to be a protest vote on immigration.

 

Any deal should have been put in front of the people before the referendum. I believe that is what Cameron actually tried to do and got nothing more than a big FOT from the EU.

 

The shortsighted buffoons in the EU refused to negotiate anything, therefore it was not possible and what resulted was a complete and utter shambles.

 

Faults on all sides, but we are where we are.

 

It seems to me that the EU is in complete denial as to what is going on around them and if they do not extract the finger PDQ there is going to be more than the UK wishing to leave.

 

Greece and EZ problems are not far off coming back to the fore, by the end of October at the latest there will be a shock coming to the EZ

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

They won't refuse to deal with us ... of course not, but they will exact a penalty for doing so ... tariffs or free movement or contributions to the EU budget ... or a combination of all three. 

 

I'd rather not say I told you so ... I'd rather we put the eventual deal in front of the UK people and ask them to approve or reject it. That, I can accept ... but not a referendum that turned out to be a protest vote on immigration.

 

 

And again, you could be right.  But somehow I suspect the individual countries would prefer not to apply tariffs - that the UK would apply in a retaliatory fashion.

 

You're making the mistake of thinking that the companies (in EU countries) would be concerned about EU free movement/EU contributions.  The companies are only concerned with their own profits.

 

Edit - I should add that I've no doubt those companies will be putting a lot of pressure on their individual governments.

Edited August 28, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[GuestHouse]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're saying that the brexiteers had no access to all the information necessary to form a plan in the event of a leave vote?

 

But that the 'leave' vote by the population should only be 'considered'  by the politicians (and/or lawyers) - who should be able to over-ride the vote?

 

No what I have said all along is 'there is no plan' and 'nobody has any idea what deal is available or how a deal will be reached'.

 

What I added in my response to your last post are comments on the fact that Brexit and any deal that Brexit might obtain has huge constitutional implications for the UK .

The government are bound by parliamentary law to present such changes before parliament for debate and ratification.

 

Sovereignty resides with parliament, not with the government.

 

We need be neither Brexit or Remain supporters to see why this is necesary.

 

For example, if the negotiations are unable to deliver a key Brexit demand who then can accept the deal minus that demand when doing so would defy what Brexit claims to be 'the will of the people'?