Uk Vv Length Of Stay

[Ian in Issan]

Hi all

My girlfriend has now spent her first month in the UK now on her Visitor Visa. Dispite the cold and stangeness of it all she's having a great time.

When we applied for the visa we wrote that she would wish to spend 2 months in England (thinking she would be sick of me by then ). However now we are sure she would love to stay over Christmas and thinking about marrage early next year, we are considering her staying for 4-5 months. When we do marry and apply for a SV could this discrepancy hurt her application?

Cheers

Ian

[atlastaname]

If you are in a genuine relationship , which you are , then although they won't be best pleased with this change in the length of her stay , you should still get the SV.

HOWEVER...There is a little known clause that does allow them to refuse under "general grounds" . This allows them , amounst other things, to refuse if they consider a previous visa was obtained by deception. They could insinuate that she always intended to use the VV to spend the maximum time with you and not for the 2 months stated.Now you would argue that once in the UK she decided she really wanted to stay for Christmas as well and that is quite reasonable . And most of the time this will be overlooked by the ECO reviewing your SV application. Just be aware that if an ECO, for their own reasons, particularly took a dislike to her they COULD refuse under general grounds of refusal . And because in theory they could be right , the ECM would be unlikely to overturn that refusal. You would then appeal and almost certainly win , but remember that with all the delays the British Embassy can cause in returning the papers to the UK for appeal, the actual appeal will likely be 6-12 months after the initial refusal. Scary isn't it? In that time your relationship will either crumble or you have to uproot yourself to stay with her in Thailand.

Now before everyone starts , i am not saying the above will happen , but it most definately could if the ECO so chooses. I can't see that an e-mail to UK Visas explaining what you both intend to do and asking for their opinion can do any harm. They may fob you off and say its not their concern , but its worth a try.

[GU22]

Ian, there is no need to worry about staying longer than originally stated. There is no need to worry about her settlement visa being refused on general grounds if she does. There is no need to contact UKVisas to explain.

Simply include a brief note of explanation in your covering letter when you make the settlement application. The ECOs realise that plans do change, particularly in situations such as yours where the purpose of the visit is to see the UK and meet one's partner's family prior to applying for settlement.

The only way staying longer than originally intended may effect a subsequent settlement application is if she was asked to sign an undertaking to return within a specific period. (If she was then this would be stapled into her passport.) Even then, whilst it may make a future visit visa application difficult it almost certainly wouldn't have any effect on a settlement one.

[atlastaname]

NO this is NOT true. They CAN refuse this on general grounds of refusal if they wanted to. That is the point i was making. It is very unlikely but it HAS happened in the past. If the ECO choses to view it as deception he/she CAN absolutley. Its a matter of interpretation . The possibility exists , however slight and GU22 is wrong to emphasise "ONLY" in the way he has.

[Ian in Issan]

Thanks guys I understand both your point of views. I think a brief letter with the SV application would hopefully head off any further questions by the ECO, but i'm going to send an email beforehand just to cover ourselves. Even if they don't reply i can say i tried! Do either of you have a email address of the relevent department?

Cheers again

[atlastaname]

just got from their website, its

[email protected]

be very interesting to see if they reply and if they do what they say.

[GU22]

Atlastaname will probably say that they are fobbing you off, but don't be surprised if the reply is along the lines of:

"Each individual case and set of circumstances is different, so we cannot give you a specific answer until you apply."

[GU22]

NO this is NOT true. They CAN refuse this on general grounds of refusal if they wanted to. That is the point i was making. It is very unlikely but it HAS happened in the past. If the ECO choses to view it as deception he/she CAN absolutely. Its a matter of interpretation . The possibility exists , however slight and GU22 is wrong to emphasise "ONLY" in the way he has.

In the circumstances described by Ian, it is the only way staying longer than originally intended could effect a subsequent application.

Changing plans to stay for a visit longer than originally intended is not obtaining a visa by deception. It happens all the time, with no problems. So does staying the intended time, going home and then using the visit visa to come back to the UK again.

Unless the holder signed an undertaking to return within a specific period, and as long as the holder has left the UK on or before the visas expiry date, it will not be a problem. Although, as already stated, mention should be made of this in any subsequent applications.

Applying for a student visa with no intention to actually study, for example, is obtaining a visa by deception.

[atlastaname]

Atlastaname will probably say that they are fobbing you off, but don't be surprised if the reply is along the lines of:

"Each individual case and set of circumstances is different, so we cannot give you a specific answer until you apply."

That is exactly what the reply will say , guaranteed, and that is fobbing you off. They don't want to give you an answer, but make you return to Thailand and apply so the power passes back to them.Thats the way the system works.

[atlastaname]

NO this is NOT true. They CAN refuse this on general grounds of refusal if they wanted to. That is the point i was making. It is very unlikely but it HAS happened in the past. If the ECO choses to view it as deception he/she CAN absolutely. Its a matter of interpretation . The possibility exists , however slight and GU22 is wrong to emphasise "ONLY" in the way he has.

In the circumstances described by Ian, it is the only way staying longer than originally intended could effect a subsequent application.

Changing plans to stay for a visit longer than originally intended is not obtaining a visa by deception. It happens all the time, with no problems. So does staying the intended time, going home and then using the visit visa to come back to the UK again.

Unless the holder signed an undertaking to return within a specific period, and as long as the holder has left the UK on or before the visas expiry date, it will not be a problem. Although, as already stated, mention should be made of this in any subsequent applications.

Applying for a student visa with no intention to actually study, for example, is obtaining a visa by deception.

No idea why GU22 is making such a big thing out of this , but i'll explain it child-like so he gets the point.

If you apply for a vv asking for 2 months but always intend in both your minds to stay the full 6, then that is obtaining a visa by deception. Lots of people change their minds about how long they want to stay once in the UK and most of the time it gets tolerated. If an ECO choses to see it another way he/she can . Thats all i was saying.

Because the system makes it so difficult for 2 people in love to come to the UK legitamately, a lot chose to circumvent the system by staying the max 6 months to build up time together. They then return to LOS and stay together , and then apply for another vv and use the 6 months and return to LOS again by which time they have satisfied this clause that they must have lived together for 2 years to be regarded as a serious couple under the unmarried partners rule ( some Home Office boffin decided that you can't be serious unless you have lived together for 2 years..so arbitrary)

Almost always this overstaying is tolerated, but there are documented cases (which my solicitor told me about) where very rarely they say this is dedception and refuse under general grounds. So whilst Ian should be OK, there is a tiny chance they could view it as deception. And that was the only point i was making because i knew that no-one else would.

[GU22]

The only comment I have to make on that waffle is:

None of it is in anyway relevant to Ian's situation.

By staying longer than originally intended his girlfriend will not be overstaying her visa (unless she stays longer than 6 months, of course)

There is no cause for anyone to consider that her visit visa was obtained by deception.

This situation is a regular occurrence, the ECOs see it all the time and have no problem with it.

So, why are you trying to cause worry and concern in Ian's mind by brining up totally irrelevant parts of the immigration rules?

[atlastaname]

For Christs sake !!

In his original post Ian asks

"could this discrepancy hurt her application ?"

The operative word is "COULD". The correct answer that i gave him is yes it COULD , but in all probability it won't.

Anyone saying 100% NO it won't hurt his future application is wrong. THAT IS ALL

[GU22]

I have done a thorough search of the Immigration Rules and the Diplomatic Service Procedures - Entry clearance - Volume 1 - General instructions and the various guidance notes issued by UK Visas. I accept that I may have missed something, but the closest I can find to any rule or instruction regarding this point is in the DSPs Chapter 10 - Visit entry requirements

10.2 - Requirements for a visitor under the Rules

The requirements to be met by a person seeking entry clearance as a visitor are that she/he:....

b. intends to leave the UK at the end of the period of the visit as stated by him/her

The important word being "intends." Intentions can and often do change.

DSPs Chapter 26 - Refusals does say

26.1 - When to refuse locally

Discretionary grounds for refusal are set out in paragraph 320 (8)-(21). Entry clearance should normally be refused in the following circumstances:

failure to observe the time limit or conditions attached to any grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom

The time limit on a visit visa is 6 months; so she can't stay any longer than that. The ECO may, in certain circumstances, issue a visit visa for a shorter period, in which case the visa will be endorsed accordingly, or may ask an applicant to sign an undertaking to return.

So, unless she did sign an undertaking to return and provided she leaves the UK on or before the visa's expiry date, staying longer than she originally intended and stated will not effect any subsequent settlement application she may make.

I accept that staying longer than originally intended and stated may have an adverse effect on a subsequent visit visa application. But that is not what Ian asked; he asked about a subsequent settlement application.

Ian, you do not need to worry. When she makes the settlement application simply, as I said before, include a brief note explaining why she stayed longer than originally stated and intended. It will not be a problem.

Edited November 15, 2006 by GU22

[Mossfinn]

Hi Ian,

When I first brought my partner over, we stated it would be for two months, having received it, we noticed it was for six months.

Pure ignorance of immigration rules at that time (no change there then), didn't know this was the norm, so she stayed for the full visa length.

We never gave an explanation, nor was it ever questioned.

I am not condoning doing an act through ignorance, as I am sure it is no defence, but I am not so sure they will view it with suspician, as you appear to have good reason to extend your original application and not over stay your visa.

With Scouse away and Vinny a liitle quiet recently the above two are your best form of advice, shame they continue to mix that advice and dilute it by throwing rocks at each other.

I would have thought that over such an extended period of time they would have got bored with it.

Happy Days,

Glad to hear your partner is having a great time

Good Luck

Moss