Little England and not-so-Great-Britain

[Khun Han]

So you're saying that the UK pays an international fixed rate for it's imported power and food then?

That is exactly what I am not saying.

Comodities with an "Iflexible demand curve" are those that we buy regardless of price, usually the absolute essentials we need to live.

The UK must buy food and energy from overseas and is now doing so with a weakend currency, the result will be inflation in the essential food people need and anything that requires energy to produce or transport.

Guess who will be hardest hit by inflation ?!

And what I am saying is that we are paying a king's ransom 'over the odds' for these goods because of our membership of the EU. Once we are free of the EU burden, we will be free to negotiate much better deals, particularly on foodstuffs from the world market, and thus prices will tumble.

[MissAndry]

The UK must buy food and energy from overseas and is now doing so with a weakend currency, the result will be inflation in the essential food people need and anything that requires energy to produce or transport.

England, an Island full of cows, surrounded by fish and floating on a sea of coal and oil.

Yet we need to import dairy, fish and fuel!

England used to produce mountains of excess food until the EU said NO.

[GuestHouse]

So you're saying that the UK pays an international fixed rate for it's imported power and food then?

That is exactly what I am not saying.

Comodities with an "Iflexible demand curve" are those that we buy regardless of price, usually the absolute essentials we need to live.

The UK must buy food and energy from overseas and is now doing so with a weakend currency, the result will be inflation in the essential food people need and anything that requires energy to produce or transport.

Guess who will be hardest hit by inflation ?!

And what I am saying is that we are paying a king's ransom 'over the odds' for these goods because of our membership of the EU. Once we are free of the EU burden, we will be free to negotiate much better deals, particularly on foodstuffs from the world market, and thus prices will tumble.

If you believe you have found a way to cheaper prices than are available on the world's commodity markets then I suggest you keep it to yourself, start a commodity trading business and make your fortune.

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Good luck with your new venture.

[MissAndry]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

EU controls milk prices by restricting production in the UK.

EU controls fish prices (and availability) by imposing quotas on the British fishing fleets, while allowing Spain to strip our waters bare.

Edited July 12, 2016 by MissAndry

[GuestHouse]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

It' you that claims the EU said NO

You presumably have some proof on the matter.

[Khun Han]

GuestHouse wrote:

If you believe you have found a way to cheaper prices than are available on the world's commodity markets then I suggest you keep it to yourself, start a commodity trading business and make your fortune.

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Good luck with your new venture.

Nonsense! You were referring to prices that the UK pays for essential imported goods such as energy and foodstuffs from foreign PLCs. These bear no relation to the world market price, and are currently mostly inextricably interwoven into our membership of the EU. That will all change post-brexit.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Khun Han

[GuestHouse]

The prices of commodities are not set by the EU

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/commodityprices.asp

[GuestHouse]

^ Nonsense! You were referring to prices that the UK pays for essential imported goods such as energy and foodstuffs from foreign PLCs. These bear no relation to the world market price, and are currently mostly inextricably interwoven into our membership of the EU. That will all change post-brexit.

Like I say, if you think you've foind a way around the international commodity prices you could be very wealthy.

Off you go, join the 'elite'

Edited July 12, 2016 by GuestHouse

[ilostmypassword]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

EU controls milk prices by restricting production in the UK.

EU controls fish prices (and availability) by imposing quotas on the British fishing fleets, while allowing Spain to strip our waters bare.

Since your assertion about milk has already been addressed, I'll just tackle the falsehood about fishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

[MissAndry]

What on earth has WW2 to do with any of this???

It was an earlier stage of Germany's design for a united Europe, by any means possible.

Brexit and the EU is merely the current battle, in a long series.

[MissAndry]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

EU controls milk prices by restricting production in the UK.

EU controls fish prices (and availability) by imposing quotas on the British fishing fleets, while allowing Spain to strip our waters bare.

Since your assertion about milk has already been addressed, I'll just tackle the falsehood about fishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

Spain's access to British waters is by EU agreement, fishing quota set by EU.

Britain out = no fishing rights for Spain = no quotas ........ unless the British government give it away.

Gunboats out, start sinking a few Spanish trawlers, it doesn't seem all that hard to me.

What's Spain going to do? Send the Armada?

Edited July 12, 2016 by MissAndry

[Khun Han]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

EU controls milk prices by restricting production in the UK.

EU controls fish prices (and availability) by imposing quotas on the British fishing fleets, while allowing Spain to strip our waters bare.

Since your assertion about milk has already been addressed, I'll just tackle the falsehood about fishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

Whilst the tone of the NFFO statement is cautionary, it's a long way from the alarmist nature of the Grauniad article in which it's quoted.

[GuestHouse]

The UK must buy food and energy from overseas and is now doing so with a weakend currency, the result will be inflation in the essential food people need and anything that requires energy to produce or transport.

England, an Island full of cows, surrounded by fish and floating on a sea of coal and oil.

Yet we need to import dairy, fish and fuel!

England used to produce mountains of excess food until the EU said NO.

England could not feed itself during WW2 and relied on convoys of food from the US.

So how did the EU stop the UK from feed itself?

When you've given a sensible answer to that we'll discuss oil.

What on earth has WW2 to do with any of this???

Apart from the issues of manpower shortages due to urgent requirements in one particular line of employment, WW2 is a completely different scenario.

You're just trolling now, right?

MissAndry claimed that England could feed itself before the advent of the EU stopping England doing so.

My reference to WW2 is a demonstration of the FACT that England could not feed itself in a period before the advent of the EU.

If you think that is trolling, take the matter to the moderators.

[ilostmypassword]

What on earth has WW2 to do with any of this???

It was an earlier stage of Germany's design for a united Europe, by any means possible.

Brexit and the EU is merely the current battle, in a long series.

And now they'be been foiled in their plan to starve Britain by denying them access to seafood. Britons will now batten of cheap and plentiful prawns!!! Take that, Kaiser Wilhelm!

[Khun Han]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

EU controls milk prices by restricting production in the UK.

EU controls fish prices (and availability) by imposing quotas on the British fishing fleets, while allowing Spain to strip our waters bare.

Since your assertion about milk has already been addressed, I'll just tackle the falsehood about fishing.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

Spain's access to British waters is by EU agreement, fishing quota set by EU.

Britain out = no fishing rights for Spain = no quotas ........ unless the British government give it away.

Gunboats out, start sinking a few Spanish trawlers, it doesn't seem all that hard to me.

What's Spain going to do? Send the Armada?

Blockade Gib, and make UK holidayers queue up for a couple of hours at passport control . Both of which will be cutting off their nose to spite their face.

[MissAndry]

MissAndry claimed that England could feed itself before the advent of the EU stopping England doing so.

My reference to WW2 is a demonstration of the FACT that England could not feed itself in a period before the advent of the EU.

Completely bogus argument though.

Britain couldn't reed itself during WW2 because all the farmers were fighting in Europe, same in WW1.

No farmers = no crops = no harvest.

http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/money_03.html

Now that the farms are highly mechanized, and production is vastly increased, if the farms were allowed they would produce far more than was needed.

Amazed that so many TV posters are so ignorant of history.

Edited July 12, 2016 by MissAndry

[GuestHouse]

The EU does not set the price of wheat, meat, milk, sugar, oil or gas, these prices are set by world markets.

Actually, it does.

Remember the days of Argentine beef and NZ Lamb, it was all you could find in the shops in the 60s and early 70s.

Then we joined the EU, both products gone ...... did Argentina stop producing beef ..... did NZ stop producing Lamb?

Or did the EU tell England NO.

EU controls milk prices by restricting production in the UK.

EU controls fish prices (and availability) by imposing quotas on the British fishing fleets, while allowing Spain to strip our waters bare.

Meanwhile some FACTS about the price of milk in the UK and the FACT that the EU is actually supporting UK dairy farmers with subsidies while the farm gate price of mikk in the UK collapse.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/12128033/Dairy-farms-squeezed-even-harder-as-income-halves-due-to-milk-price-war.html

I wonder why the EU chooses subsidies to milk producers rather than fixing the price of milk at a higher price?

Could Brexiteers be wrong? Could it be that the EU is not fixing the price of milk?

Edited July 12, 2016 by GuestHouse

[Khun Han]

England, an Island full of cows, surrounded by fish and floating on a sea of coal and oil.

Yet we need to import dairy, fish and fuel!

England used to produce mountains of excess food until the EU said NO.

England could not feed itself during WW2 and relied on convoys of food from the US.

So how did the EU stop the UK from feed itself?

When you've given a sensible answer to that we'll discuss oil.

What on earth has WW2 to do with any of this???

Apart from the issues of manpower shortages due to urgent requirements in one particular line of employment, WW2 is a completely different scenario.

You're just trolling now, right?

MissAndry claimed that England could feed itself before the advent of the EU stopping England doing so.

My reference to WW2 is a demonstration of the FACT that England could not feed itself in a period before the advent of the EU.

If you think that is trolling, take the matter to the moderators.

And you used an utterly inappropriate comparison to make your point.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you hadn't thought through why the UK was in the economic situation it was in during WW2.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Khun Han

[GuestHouse]

"I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you hadn't thought through why the UK was in the economic situation it was in during WW2."

OK answer me this.

When was the last time the UK supplied it's food needs without importing food from overseas?

[Khun Han]

"I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you hadn't thought through why the UK was in the economic situation it was in during WW2."

OK answer me this.

When was the last time the UK supplied it's food needs without importing food from overseas?

That's a nonsense question. Countries import food because they can. That's the cosmopolitan nature of the modern world. The UK is climatically one of the world's best 'garden' countries, and can more than achieve food self-sufficiency if needs be.

[MissAndry]

When was the last time the UK supplied it's food needs without importing food from overseas?

Why would that be relevant?

Currently England could produce it's own food, with excess, but 'world interests' deem it unnecessary (or not in their interest).

Unfortunately the world as it is now works on 'agendas' rather than national interests.

And the current agenda is a single world government (or maybe a corporate world government).

Edited July 12, 2016 by MissAndry

[GuestHouse]

"I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you hadn't thought through why the UK was in the economic situation it was in during WW2."

OK answer me this.

When was the last time the UK supplied it's food needs without importing food from overseas?

That's a nonsense question. Countries import food because they can. That's the cosmopolitan nature of the modern world. The UK is climatically one of the world's best 'garden' countries, and can more than achieve food self-sufficiency if needs be.

We all the UK imports food (now being paid for with a weaker pound - hence my comments on post Brexit iflation)

You provide no evidence of your claim that the UK can achieve food self sufficieny. Where you just saying suff because you can?

[Khun Han]

"I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you hadn't thought through why the UK was in the economic situation it was in during WW2."

OK answer me this.

When was the last time the UK supplied it's food needs without importing food from overseas?

That's a nonsense question. Countries import food because they can. That's the cosmopolitan nature of the modern world. The UK is climatically one of the world's best 'garden' countries, and can more than achieve food self-sufficiency if needs be.

We all the UK imports food (now being paid for with a weaker pound - hence my comments on post Brexit iflation)

You provide no evidence of your claim that the UK can achieve food self sufficieny. Where you just saying suff because you can?

You've obviously never spent much time in the UK, or you're trolling again.

[soalbundy]

So you're saying that the UK pays an international fixed rate for it's imported power and food then?

That is exactly what I am not saying.

Comodities with an "Iflexible demand curve" are those that we buy regardless of price, usually the absolute essentials we need to live.

The UK must buy food and energy from overseas and is now doing so with a weakend currency, the result will be inflation in the essential food people need and anything that requires energy to produce or transport.

Guess who will be hardest hit by inflation ?!

And what I am saying is that we are paying a king's ransom 'over the odds' for these goods because of our membership of the EU. Once we are free of the EU burden, we will be free to negotiate much better deals, particularly on foodstuffs from the world market, and thus prices will tumble.

my brothers company situated in London sends two articulated lorries per day to France to buy French vegetables, since the pound has fallen he is paying over the top for the produce as he has to pay in Euro's, he passes this increase on to his customers.

[GuestHouse]

"I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you hadn't thought through why the UK was in the economic situation it was in during WW2."

OK answer me this.

When was the last time the UK supplied it's food needs without importing food from overseas?

That's a nonsense question. Countries import food because they can. That's the cosmopolitan nature of the modern world. The UK is climatically one of the world's best 'garden' countries, and can more than achieve food self-sufficiency if needs be.

We all the UK imports food (now being paid for with a weaker pound - hence my comments on post Brexit iflation)

You provide no evidence of your claim that the UK can achieve food self sufficieny. Where you just saying suff because you can?

You've obviously never spent much time in the UK, or you're trolling again.

Once again, if you wish to report me for trollong do so.

Alternatively answer my question.

When was the last time the UK was able to feed itself without buying food on the international markets?

[MissAndry]

When was the last time the UK was able to feed itself without buying food on the international markets?

Today, Britain is able to feed itself fully.

But being able to do something, doesn't mean you will do it.

There is a difference between having an ability and choosing to use that ability.

Similarly,

I'm able to bake all my own bread, but I actually only bake around 25% of my consumption, because I have enough money to pay others to do the work.

I'm able to cycle from CM to CR, but I've never done it because the bus is easier, and I'm a bit lazy.

I'm able to keep cows (farming family) and produce all my own milk and dairy, but I don't because Tesco is easier and DIY is hard work.

Britain had the ability to produce all it's own coal and steel, but Margaret Thatcher destroyed those two industries in order to get rid of the unions.

Edited July 12, 2016 by MissAndry

[jpinx]

The EU was effectively paying farmers to not produce so much - thereby emasculating the UK's own food supply and forcing imports - mostly from the French, who has a huge issue with protecting it's farming industry. UK can easily produce enough food. Do the simple maths of acreage available and production rates. Meantime - go check out the local supermarket for UK produced food and compare it to the EU-subsidised imports. Take away the EU sibsidy and the price is the same, so UK nly needs to help it's farmers get back to full production

[jpinx]

We all the UK imports food (now being paid for with a weaker pound - hence my comments on post Brexit iflation)

You provide no evidence of your claim that the UK can achieve food self sufficieny. Where you just saying suff because you can?

You've obviously never spent much time in the UK, or you're trolling again.

Once again, if you wish to report me for trollong do so.

Alternatively answer my question.

When was the last time the UK was able to feed itself without buying food on the international markets?

No country feeds itself -- period

[Khun Han]

So you're saying that the UK pays an international fixed rate for it's imported power and food then?

That is exactly what I am not saying.

Comodities with an "Iflexible demand curve" are those that we buy regardless of price, usually the absolute essentials we need to live.

The UK must buy food and energy from overseas and is now doing so with a weakend currency, the result will be inflation in the essential food people need and anything that requires energy to produce or transport.

Guess who will be hardest hit by inflation ?!

And what I am saying is that we are paying a king's ransom 'over the odds' for these goods because of our membership of the EU. Once we are free of the EU burden, we will be free to negotiate much better deals, particularly on foodstuffs from the world market, and thus prices will tumble.

my brothers company situated in London sends two articulated lorries per day to France to buy French vegetables, since the pound has fallen he is paying over the top for the produce as he has to pay in Euro's, he passes this increase on to his customers.

That's a nice anecdote reflecting today's currency situation, but what does it have to do with prices negotiated through future EU-free trade agreements?

[soalbundy]

since the EU isn't communist i assume that the EU farmers will charge a rate for their produce that gives them a profit,it wont be affected by trade agreements.If the pound remains weak then obviously the produce will be more expensive in pounds.