Realities of teaching in Thailand without work permit

[up-country_sinclair]

It is all the people working without a work permit that are keeping the salaries low.

That's the --errr -- "reallity" of the situation.

While I don't hope that the OP gets arrested for flouting the law, I wouldn't feel badly for him if it did happen.

[lostinisaan]

Who is "WE" Franky bear? You have a mouse in your pocket? I love people who come on here and state "WE" like you have the support of others behind you or you speak for all. All you did was come on here with nasty, negative, misguided and rhetorical statements.

Let me say, I do not have a university degree. I think I mentioned that or at least alluded to it. I did complete school and completed a 4 year trade in

Electrical wiring / contracting with associate certificates in Electronics and Engineering. I left that industry many years ago and was a corporate trainer / National Operations manager.

Now "WE" want to know what you do "Franky bear"?

I will also say I agree with you in regards to the Thai education system. It is dreadful. I also have a child and I despair at the thought of him going to school. One thing I have learned is that I wont be sending him to a private school. Thing I haven't mentioned, and I in no way claim this to entitle me to teach here....I lived in a remote village for a year. Most wonderful respectful kids I have ever met. Most of them lived dirt floor huts, ate rats...frogs. Happiest kids I ever seen in my life. My wife's uncle, a district head teacher, who lived next door asked me if I could come and speak to the kids in English sometimes at the school. Not for money, just to help out. They didn't have funding for an English teacher. We already had groups of kids coming to our home on weekends armed with their English books for some help. In actual fact I think they were more interested in eating farang food and spending sometime in a nice house which was fine with us. Truly lovely kids. I think their parents had pushed them into going to learn English with the farang.

Thing that struck me was that they were enthralled watching documentaries about animals, world events, different countries they didn't even know existed. Try getting a kid back home to watch a show like that. They have no choice other than watch the inane drivel they show on FTA TV here. My point being, the kids want to learn in most cases. The system lets them down and they become disillusioned and lazy. I would have 120 really poor kids sitting cross legged and super well behaved for at least an hour in that little government village school. Seems to me in a private school they just do what they want. Play facebook, wander outside as the mood takes. Teacher has no control as the kid is guaranteed a pass. If the teacher dares to chastise or make an example of the kid mom and dad are there complaining the next day. And mom and dad complaining is far worse than the kid not learning anything. Its about the fees. And these are the privileged kids that will end up in the universities, have all the opportunities and will be operating on people, running the country etc.

So every week I would go to the school with my wife. She would handle the Thai side of things and I would ask them questions about their life...their likes...sports they like. I in turn would tell them things about Australia, my travels. Basically an open discussion with what ended up being the whole school 120 kids assembled for an hour. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I got as much out of it as the kids. Did I teach them proper English? Grammar etc. No. Did they learn something? Absolutely. After that year we moved away and unfortunately I couldn't spend time with the kids anymore. They did manage to employ a Thai "English" teacher. The wife's uncle was eager for me to meet her. He probably thought I would be happy to speak English with someone. She kept putting it off. In the end, I met her by chance at a school festival. She couldn't understand a bloody word I was saying! She said it was my accent. Now I don't have any sort of a thick accent and I'm well versed in talking to Thai people who understand English very "Sa lowly". Apart from the usual "How are you" "I fine thank you" "what is your name" she didn't have a clue. She's still working there 2 years later. School I spoke to last week just lost an English teacher. She couldn't control the kids. Well she got the job as an English teacher....had a degree in fashion design or something. She was Bhutanese....didn't speak English or Thai. I guess there are foreign people here using or abusing the system and aren't sincere about what they're doing. Does all this make me or others parasites?

Tl;Dr till you asked me what i do....I'm a mechanical engineer.

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering plus a Master's degree in petroleum engineering but I choose to work as a teacher as believe it or not, I have a much better lifestyle and job satisfaction.

Do you have a degree Franky Bear? I'm asking as i think this is what your beef is all about.

Can't imagine Franky Bear in a classroom and little kids sitting on his lap......

Mechanical engineering sounds so much better than burger flipping.....

[Franky Bear]

Can't imagine Franky Bear in a classroom and little kids sitting on his lap......

Mechanical engineering sounds so much better than burger flipping.....

Cool

[KhonKaenKowboy]

I am an American with an engineering degree. While working in Michigan, I was repeatedly asked if I would teach math and engineering at night for one of the local universities ... I eventually agreed. The state of Michigan allows people with "technical expertise" to be teachers. So I started teaching classes at night. Every semester the university would throw me into where ever they had vacancies .. and i would end up teaching a different curriculum. AND while I was doing this, I was accumulating credits which eventually made me a licensed teacher. So, in the USA it is quite possible to teach at a university without a degree in education. And I believe my students would agree that they got what they were paying for. And it was legal. And it is done all the time.

I would say that fewer than 10% of my Uni teachers had degrees in education.

[up-country_sinclair]

I am an American with an engineering degree. While working in Michigan, I was repeatedly asked if I would teach math and engineering at night for one of the local universities ... I eventually agreed. The state of Michigan allows people with "technical expertise" to be teachers. So I started teaching classes at night. Every semester the university would throw me into where ever they had vacancies .. and i would end up teaching a different curriculum. AND while I was doing this, I was accumulating credits which eventually made me a licensed teacher. So, in the USA it is quite possible to teach at a university without a degree in education. And I believe my students would agree that they got what they were paying for. And it was legal. And it is done all the time.

I would say that fewer than 10% of my Uni teachers had degrees in education.

What percentage of your uni teaches held a doctorate in their field? I would guess somewhere near 100%

What percentage didn't have a bachelor's degree. I would guess 0%

The OP has no absolutely no training in teaching a language and only a few more years personal educational experience than what is required by the laws of his country.

Thailand has laws on the books to keep people like this out of their classrooms.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

All professor's have Ph.D., but they do use graduate students to teach lower level classes, who do hold Bachelor's Degrees. I think there is a much stronger case for people to be able to teach without a B.Ed, but can't really say the same for those with no degree, and unfortunately that faction is over-represented on this forum. Kind of ironic that many of the same ones, who will tell you it's unnecessary; somehow find it necessary to obtain a fake, while the Flips and Eurotrash are busy claiming it's not necessary to be NES. Result: make four USD per hour for wearing purple polyester and pointed dress shoes.

[Rayk]

Oh dear jesus! Not a teacher but clearly an authority on the subject. You're too much. Are you just trolling through topics having a go at people? Having a bad day? A bad week?

A little free advice....if you're going to engage in a battle of wits with someone, at the very least don't embarrass yourself and arrive unarmed.

My kids are in the Thai education system (not for much longer thankfully)

This isn't a battle of anything. it's pointing out to you that you are NOT in any way or form a teacher and shouldn't even be considering being one. Even the teachers i know and drink with agree that they shouldn't be anywhere near a school in reality but it allows them to stay in Thailand. I don;t mind honesty like that to be honest.

Now, stop being agressive and assuming anything about me. This is a subject that is open to anyone with a kid in this terrible schooling.

Quote:You and these "teachers" are parasites.

So I guess those teachers you know and get drunk with are also parasites.

What does that make you?

And for christ sakes, learn to use an apostrophe.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Oh dear jesus! Not a teacher but clearly an authority on the subject. You're too much. Are you just trolling through topics having a go at people? Having a bad day? A bad week?

A little free advice....if you're going to engage in a battle of wits with someone, at the very least don't embarrass yourself and arrive unarmed.

My kids are in the Thai education system (not for much longer thankfully)

This isn't a battle of anything. it's pointing out to you that you are NOT in any way or form a teacher and shouldn't even be considering being one. Even the teachers i know and drink with agree that they shouldn't be anywhere near a school in reality but it allows them to stay in Thailand. I don;t mind honesty like that to be honest.

Now, stop being agressive and assuming anything about me. This is a subject that is open to anyone with a kid in this terrible schooling.

Quote:You and these "teachers" are parasites.

So I guess those teachers you know and get drunk with are also parasites.

What does that make you?

And for christ sakes, learn to use an apostrophe.

do you mean "Christ's sake"?

[Kenny202]

So everyone has voiced their opinions. Fair enough. Thanks to all the guys who PM me with actual helpful advice.

I still must be missing something though. Without any sort of degree I can never legally work in a government school or obtain a teachers license.

So what is a TEFL course all about where they guarantee you work with or without a degree? Can a work permit be sourced by an agency on my behalf to teach in a language school etc? How does it all work?

Do I forfeit my OA visa and obtain a different visa?

Edited July 6, 2016 by Kenny202

[KhonKaenKowboy]

guaranteed employment is simply a pay to work scam. I've heard of cases where students are sent out to teach on their third day of "training." Of course, the school is charging you for training and billing the schools for your teaching. Kind of like charging someone to cut down a tree, then selling it back to them as firewood. Hell, back in WW II, the SS even got the Jews to pay for their own train tickets to the camps. They too, were promised work. Probably a more fitting example.

[tonray]

So everyone has voiced their opinions. Fair enough. Thanks to all the guys who PM me with actual helpful advice.

I still must be missing something though. Without any sort of degree I can never legally work in a government school or obtain a teachers license.

So what is a TEFL course all about where they guarantee you work with or without a degree? Can a work permit be sourced by an agency on my behalf to teach in a language school etc? How does it all work?

Do I forfeit my OA visa and obtain a different visa?

Not to sound like I'm preaching...but...in 2016 it's a good thing anywhere in the world for any chosen occupation to have a college degree. Maybe get some study time in while you are 'blundering around the world' ?

[Kenny202]

guaranteed employment is simply a pay to work scam. I've heard of cases where students are sent out to teach on their third day of "training." Of course, the school is charging you for training and billing the schools for your teaching. Kind of like charging someone to cut down a tree, then selling it back to them as firewood. Hell, back in WW II, the SS even got the Jews to pay for their own train tickets to the camps. They too, were promised work. Probably a more fitting example.

you guys preach about working illegally etc yet don't provide any facts just a lot of rhetoric and anecdotes. Nazis? SS? If you don't know move on Edited July 7, 2016 by Kenny202

[LazySlipper]

guaranteed employment is simply a pay to work scam. I've heard of cases where students are sent out to teach on their third day of "training." Of course, the school is charging you for training and billing the schools for your teaching. Kind of like charging someone to cut down a tree, then selling it back to them as firewood. Hell, back in WW II, the SS even got the Jews to pay for their own train tickets to the camps. They too, were promised work. Probably a more fitting example.

you guys preach about working illegally etc yet don't provide any facts just a lot of rhetoric and anecdotes. Nazis? SS? If you don't know move on

Feelings hurt, yet again?

Touch a nerve, yet again?

The "realllity" is the more you try to bite back... the more you will get teased!!!

[bermondburithesecond]

I taught in Thailand for five years with no work permit and never had any problems.

To go through my experiences with job and salary.

First school was a government school in Bangkok starting on 32k. Stayed one year and was on 35k by the time I left. Regulations were changing around this time and the school actually said they didn't know how to process work permits any more, so me and the other guy there went up to Laos every so often. I didn't mind as it was a few days off, and I could go on the piss.

Second school was a well known chain of private schools where I taught English, science, maths, social studies at various times. Started on 38k, and I was on 49k when I left four years later. Didn't want a work permit really because it would have meant paying tax. I was on a non O, so still happy to do the visa runs to Laos.

I also worked part time at a couple of language schools over the years earning about 400 an hour. They would only provide a work permit to the one or two guys working there full time.

I have known so many people working illegally in Thailand over the years that it wouldn't bother me. I used to sell stuff down the local markets too, and that never bothered me either.

By the time I left Thailand for years ago I used to earn about 70k a month all in. But I realised that without better qualifications I was never going to get anywhere and life was passing me by. I didn't want to wake up at fifty with no money saved and no prospects.

So I left for Saudi. Now working for the military here. Very good benefits and a salary of 225k a month. Leaving Thailand was the best decision I ever made and I wouldn't teach there again.

But to the OP, do what you want to do. People on here will always try to shoot you down.

Edited July 7, 2016 by bermondburithesecond

[Kenny202]

I placed a post asking genuine questions. Feelings hurt are you kidding? Teased? You sound like a homo.

You're just hijacking a post with your opinions. No help, no facts. I wish the mods would just can blokes like you

[Franky Bear]

Oh dear jesus! Not a teacher but clearly an authority on the subject. You're too much. Are you just trolling through topics having a go at people? Having a bad day? A bad week?

A little free advice....if you're going to engage in a battle of wits with someone, at the very least don't embarrass yourself and arrive unarmed.

My kids are in the Thai education system (not for much longer thankfully)

This isn't a battle of anything. it's pointing out to you that you are NOT in any way or form a teacher and shouldn't even be considering being one. Even the teachers i know and drink with agree that they shouldn't be anywhere near a school in reality but it allows them to stay in Thailand. I don;t mind honesty like that to be honest.

Now, stop being agressive and assuming anything about me. This is a subject that is open to anyone with a kid in this terrible schooling.

Quote:You and these "teachers" are parasites.

So I guess those teachers you know and get drunk with are also parasites.

What does that make you?

And for christ sakes, learn to use an apostrophe.

do you mean "Christ's sake"?

Ouch hee hee hee

[Rayk]

Oh dear jesus! Not a teacher but clearly an authority on the subject. You're too much. Are you just trolling through topics having a go at people? Having a bad day? A bad week?

A little free advice....if you're going to engage in a battle of wits with someone, at the very least don't embarrass yourself and arrive unarmed.

My kids are in the Thai education system (not for much longer thankfully)

This isn't a battle of anything. it's pointing out to you that you are NOT in any way or form a teacher and shouldn't even be considering being one. Even the teachers i know and drink with agree that they shouldn't be anywhere near a school in reality but it allows them to stay in Thailand. I don;t mind honesty like that to be honest.

Now, stop being agressive and assuming anything about me. This is a subject that is open to anyone with a kid in this terrible schooling.

Quote:You and these "teachers" are parasites.

So I guess those teachers you know and get drunk with are also parasites.

What does that make you?

And for christ sakes, learn to use an apostrophe.

do you mean "Christ's sake"?

Ouch hee hee hee

I don't believe in this so called Christ character , hence the reason I wrote it that way.

Not fooling you with that one, am I.

Hehe

[Happy Grumpy]

Most of the teachers I know in BKK are in the 70-80k bracket, most don't have WP's.

It seems that if you're still earning 35k after 5 or 10 years here there's definitely something wrong.

[lostinisaan]

I placed a post asking genuine questions. Feelings hurt are you kidding? Teased? You sound like a homo.

You're just hijacking a post with your opinions. No help, no facts. I wish the mods would just can blokes like you

Homo Sapiens, perhaps?

[LazySlipper]

I placed a post asking genuine questions. Feelings hurt are you kidding? Teased? You sound like a homo.

You're just hijacking a post with your opinions. No help, no facts. I wish the mods would just can blokes like you

I changed my mind. I would report you if you were working without a work permit.

[lostinisaan]

"Please don't misunderstand my post. If I do go into this field, I want to do a good job and take it seriously..."

Make up your mind, are you going to work illegally without the required qualifications or are you going to take it seriously?

Some pupils may take learning from a foreigner seriously only to find he was taking the piss out of them, the authorities and the system designed to protect them from people like you.

While some "teachers" on fake degrees, or no degrees, but with a special desire for little girls and boys who love to play Santa Claus in December can play their perverted games in private tutoring lessons.

.

are you implying that the fact that you have a teaching degree eliminates you from being a pedophile?

Nope, I only believe that it's too easy for a pedophile to get a teaching position in Thailand. There should be a background check from the country of origin and one from Thailand, if the person is staying here for a longer period of time.

Kids have to be protected, there are already too many Thai teachers who abuse students in various ways to receive a better grade.

Nothing to do with having a work permit, or not.

[lostinisaan]

I placed a post asking genuine questions. Feelings hurt are you kidding? Teased? You sound like a homo.

You're just hijacking a post with your opinions. No help, no facts. I wish the mods would just can blokes like you

I changed my mind. I would report you if you were working without a work permit.

The whole teaching forum seems to develop into a "I report you" and "they'll deport you" forum, full of hate. BTW, I've reported you to the Mods.

It seems to be a criminal act to teach English as a NNES, even when you're doing that for a long time.

And when you're trying to answer a question, there're always some guys who jump on your back and call you somebody who knows everything?

Most here seem to be adults, but when reading some posts it looks more like a Kindergarten forum to me.How can I report my own post?

[manfredtillmann]

"Please don't misunderstand my post. If I do go into this field, I want to do a good job and take it seriously..."

Make up your mind, are you going to work illegally without the required qualifications or are you going to take it seriously?

Some pupils may take learning from a foreigner seriously only to find he was taking the piss out of them, the authorities and the system designed to protect them from people like you.

While some "teachers" on fake degrees, or no degrees, but with a special desire for little girls and boys who love to play Santa Claus in December can play their perverted games in private tutoring lessons.

.

are you implying that the fact that you have a teaching degree eliminates you from being a pedophile?

Nope, I only believe that it's too easy for a pedophile to get a teaching position in Thailand. There should be a background check from the country of origin and one from Thailand, if the person is staying here for a longer period of time.

Kids have to be protected, there are already too many Thai teachers who abuse students in various ways to receive a better grade.

Nothing to do with having a work permit, or not.

in australia, i and all my employees and contractors, have to have an australian police check before we enter schools (i do a lot of work there!).

we have to wear a picture id on our arm at all times, are not permitted to interact or communicate with children, we are not even allowed to return the balls they accidentally kick / throw into our work compound. what this means is if the kids ask you;" what are you doing, mr builder" we just have to walk away without reacting!

we are not teachers, just construction workers.

so, what did you guys have to present here in t other than your university degree to prove you are suitable to teach children?

[balo]

I turned down a job as an IT teacher in Bangkok , no degrees, never been a teacher in my life , but I do have a lot of IT experience and also had some private classes in the past . No WP needed and I could start working on Monday with a 30000 baht salary. So yes, it's easy to get a job without a WP.

Edited July 9, 2016 by balo

[Kenny202]

Can we get back on topic? It wasn't a post about pedophiles or people's judgements / opinions. Still don't really have an answer to my last questions

[manfredtillmann]

Can we get back on topic? It wasn't a post about pedophiles or people's judgements / opinions. Still don't really have an answer to my last questions

which one?

"Feelings hurt are you kidding?" or "Teased?"

[Kenny202]

Can we get back on topic? It wasn't a post about pedophiles or people's judgements / opinions. Still don't really have an answer to my last questions

which one?

"Feelings hurt are you kidding?" or "Teased?"

funny funny man. Pointless. As are u. None of those gay quotes were mine. Teased? For Frk sake how old are u?

[Kenny202]

For some reason I have an image in my head of some of u blokes. One of thos big fat penguin shaped coke swilling, KFC scoffing Americans you see waddling around Bangkok with their trousers done up around their chests. Usually ex CIA, specials ops or a Bkk private eye haha. Come accross one on this forum actually said he was all three ....but gave it away and is now working as a lawyer. Ie a pointless blot on the earth trying to gain relevance and respect. Tell me I'm wrong? Haha. By the way, to steal and distort a quote from someone else here....

I wouldn't wish you got kicked in the face by a group of irate lady boys until your eyes bled, but I couldn't care less if you did. Jing jing na kap :-)

[manfredtillmann]

Can we get back on topic? It wasn't a post about pedophiles or people's judgements / opinions. Still don't really have an answer to my last questions

which one?

"Feelings hurt are you kidding?" or "Teased?"

funny funny man. Pointless. As are u. None of those gay quotes were mine. Teased? For Frk sake how old are u?

i was just too unobservant to realise that you do not know how to quote. my bad..., like, sort off, anyway.

but i was just reflecting on YOUR post.

i am 58, for frk sake. old enough to be wrong at times. and you?

[Kenny202]

Can we get back on topic? It wasn't a post about pedophiles or people's judgements / opinions. Still don't really have an answer to my last questions

which one?

"Feelings hurt are you kidding?" or "Teased?"

funny funny man. Pointless. As are u. None of those gay quotes were mine. Teased? For Frk sake how old are u?

i was just too unobservant to realise that you do not know how to quote. my bad..., like, sort off, anyway.

but i was just reflecting on YOUR post.

i am 58, for frk sake. old enough to be wrong at times. and you?

Mate, i could ask you if I hit a nerve etc but lets not. I made a post trying to get some reasonable answers to reasonable and well meaning questions. Trouble is, after a post gets more than a couple of pages long, the keyboard warriors jump on, read only the previous three posts and go on the attack.

Once again thanks to the 7 or 8 people have sent me PMs with factual and helpful information.

By the way I do know how to quote. I'm having trouble posting from my phone for some reason. Random log outs...then won't log in something about not compatible with Tapatalk etc. I don't use Tapatalk. Was going to post if others experiencing the same thing.