Is Thailand Now Serious About Submarines from China?

[webfact]

Is Thailand Now Serious About Submarines from China?
Despite some encouraging signs, lingering concerns persist.
By Prashanth Parameswaran

BANGKOK: -- Over the past few days, reports have surfaced that Thailand may now be getting serious about purchasing three submarines from China as part of a billion-dollar deal.

In July last year, Thailand’s defense minister Prawit Wongsuwan had said that Bangkok would be putting a hold on its newly announced submarine purchase from China, which had come as a surprise to many and had led to some domestic opposition (See: “Is China’s New Submarine Deal With Thailand Now In Peril?”). The move meant that the country’s dream of acquiring a capability it has lacked for more than six decades had once again been deferred.

But now reports have indicated that Thailand will be moving forward with the purchase. The latest round of media excitement stems from responses by defense minister Prawit Wongsuwan to journalist questions on Friday that the Royal Thai Navy (RTN) had already decided to buy submarines and that the first one would be purchased using the budget from fiscal year 2017. To some, that indicated a certain finality to the deal since the project had already been listed as a line item in the 2017 budget and the defense minister had approved of its inclusion.

Full story: http://thediplomat.com/2016/07/is-thailand-now-serious-about-submarines-from-china/

-- THE DIPLOMAT 2016-07-06

[Thailand]

I guess the first one will be a yellow submarine!

[colinneil]

Toys for the boys.

Total waste of money, but hey who cares we get new toys to play with.

[futsukayoi]

Toys for the boys.

Total waste of money, but hey who cares we get new toys to play with.

Only fair. The navy need a big ticket item to allow them to skim some huge payoffs they are owed for supporting the coup.

[Alive]

I guess the first one will be a yellow submarine!

It's Prayuth and the gang's escape submarine.

[smutcakes]

They desperately need it approved before the referendum when waters may get turbulent again......

If its not approved, perhaps the army might not be able to count on them not to rock the boat in the future....

Probably frantic negotiations underway on how it can be rejected and what other concessions which look slightly less bad PR wise can be given instead.

[nausea]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

[gandalf12]

Ok where is the start button? One of you guys have hidden it I know

[Bob12345]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

Useful for what?

What does the navy actually do?

I do not get the feeling they are actually doing something besides keeping their boats afloat and repainting them every now and then.

Thailand is not in war and the only shooting the army does is in it's own cities at its own people. Not much of a role for the navy there.

[neverdie]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

Useful for what?

What does the navy actually do?

I do not get the feeling they are actually doing something besides keeping their boats afloat and repainting them every now and then.

Thailand is not in war and the only shooting the army does is in it's own cities at its own people. Not much of a role for the navy there.

You won't find me going beneath the surface of the ocean riding in a Chinese made submarine driven by a Somchai the sailor. This can only end in tears.

[Khun Paul]

et me see and Aircraft carrier with no planes ........um interesting

With Submarines you cannot have no sea, but you doi have no need, the sea is so shallow here Subs can be spotted by satellites. Unless theya re going the other way towards India and why would they do that. ?

[chainarong]

With having Unelected DMP Pawtwit involved is a disaster from the very start , however personalities aside, Thailand is unequipped to manage Submarines , has no experience in personal or maintenance , Fast track the Thai way is not an option in this case , possibly two pieces of military hardware you can't fast track is aircraft and subs, besides the need for such equipment is minimal at the least, requiring heavy investment , with an over bloated military that could be reduced by three quarters and still be overweight, with Thailand's China connection Submarines along with high Speed trains , may cost more than its worth...........................

[tuanku]

I guess the first one will be a yellow submarine!

Already here

[gandalf12]

With having Unelected DMP Pawtwit involved is a disaster from the very start , however personalities aside, Thailand is unequipped to manage Submarines , has no experience in personal or maintenance , Fast track the Thai way is not an option in this case , possibly two pieces of military hardware you can't fast track is aircraft and subs, besides the need for such equipment is minimal at the least, requiring heavy investment , with an over bloated military that could be reduced by three quarters and still be overweight, with Thailand's China connection Submarines along with high Speed trains , may cost more than its worth...........................

Don't be afraid to say what you mean. Come on dont be shy

[tuanku]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

Useful for what?

What does the navy actually do?

I do not get the feeling they are actually doing something besides keeping their boats afloat and repainting them every now and then.

Thailand is not in war and the only shooting the army does is in it's own cities at its own people. Not much of a role for the navy there.

You won't find me going beneath the surface of the ocean riding in a Chinese made submarine driven by a Somchai the sailor. This can only end in tears.

Don't worry, there are no plans to use them to give tours for expats (they are not the ones with lots of windows for looking at the fish - or are they?) or use them for attitude adjustment as far as we know. There is also a suggestion that they will have key Chinese personnel in charge until the Thais pass their driving tests and learn enough Chinese to recognise the word "fire" on the red torpedo button.

Don't be too hard on the RTN, they do look after sea turtles and are key players in the trafficking of people trade, plus they arrest the occasional Vietnamese fishing boat stealing Thai fish (amazed they can find any). With submarines they will be better placed to resist Chinese maritime aggression which is regionally the main threat............ hang on! Who are they buying submarines from?

And if they are spreading payments over 11 years, they have presumably decided not to buy anything else for that period of time? By which time there may or may not be a military junta in power and there is a chance that either or both Prayuth and Prawit will have passed on to a better, or at least more appropriate place.

[steveyinasia]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

Useful for what?

What does the navy actually do?

I do not get the feeling they are actually doing something besides keeping their boats afloat and repainting them every now and then.

Thailand is not in war and the only shooting the army does is in it's own cities at its own people. Not much of a role for the navy there.

You won't find me going beneath the surface of the ocean riding in a Chinese made submarine driven by a Somchai the sailor. This can only end in tears.

Don't worry, there are no plans to use them to give tours for expats (they are not the ones with lots of windows for looking at the fish - or are they?) or use them for attitude adjustment as far as we know. There is also a suggestion that they will have key Chinese personnel in charge until the Thais pass their driving tests and learn enough Chinese to recognise the word "fire" on the red torpedo button.

Don't be too hard on the RTN, they do look after sea turtles and are key players in the trafficking of people trade, plus they arrest the occasional Vietnamese fishing boat stealing Thai fish (amazed they can find any). With submarines they will be better placed to resist Chinese maritime aggression which is regionally the main threat............ hang on! Who are they buying submarines from?

And if they are spreading payments over 11 years, they have presumably decided not to buy anything else for that period of time? By which time there may or may not be a military junta in power and there is a chance that either or both Prayuth and Prawit will have passed on to a better, or at least more appropriate place.

Does anyone know what the interest rate on the 11 years worth of payments will be?

[wotsdermatter]

Having spent 7 years in the R.N., including one year at H.M.S. Dolphin (our submarine base at Gosport), and having seen the training submariners had to go through, including the 100 feet dive tower escape training, I question where the Thai navy personnel will get their training. The Thai navy decided to have their carrier built in Spain, the logic behind that decision being because Spain had built carriers before. So had the UK, France, Germany, USA, amongst others. What happened? The carrier was delivered and has rarely been used. Why? Lack of proper training facilities, and not having planes to fly. The navy purchased out of date Harriers from the UK but no spare parts because there were none available or they were for different models of the Harrier and no pilots qualified to fly them (Harriers are very special due to the nature of their capabilities and are the only vertical takeoff/landing aircraft in existence. Oh, well, such is life when it is possible to use tax payers money without retribution from the taxpayers. Submarines could be useful but the big wigs in the Thai navy have to rethink why they need submarines and how they are to be deployed. Another question is, why are they buying old Chinese submarines when other countries can build more modern boats with better, i.e. more modern technology on board?

[Winniedapu]

Toys for the boys.

Total waste of money, but hey who cares we get new toys to play with.

Indeed, it's all ego games "wah!, he's got one. I want one! Wah!!"

The only threat to Thais is the Thai Armed Forces. Everything else is just a masturbatory fantasy. They'd probably bump them into Indonesia or India or something, look what they do to helicopters... Incompetents 'r' us.

Winnie

[tuanku]

Having spent 7 years in the R.N., including one year at H.M.S. Dolphin (our submarine base at Gosport), and having seen the training submariners had to go through, including the 100 feet dive tower escape training, I question where the Thai navy personnel will get their training. The Thai navy decided to have their carrier built in Spain, the logic behind that decision being because Spain had built carriers before. So had the UK, France, Germany, USA, amongst others. What happened? The carrier was delivered and has rarely been used. Why? Lack of proper training facilities, and not having planes to fly. The navy purchased out of date Harriers from the UK but no spare parts because there were none available or they were for different models of the Harrier and no pilots qualified to fly them (Harriers are very special due to the nature of their capabilities and are the only vertical takeoff/landing aircraft in existence. Oh, well, such is life when it is possible to use tax payers money without retribution from the taxpayers. Submarines could be useful but the big wigs in the Thai navy have to rethink why they need submarines and how they are to be deployed. Another question is, why are they buying old Chinese submarines when other countries can build more modern boats with better, i.e. more modern technology on board?

You would have to suppose that the opportunities for kickbacks and commissions are much better with the Chinese than with the other countries. Its not really about the submarines at all. they are just an excuse to make a significant purchase and reap the rewards. Once bought, most of the navy will lose interest as they did with the aircraft carrier. Only the operational unit saddled with the submarines will have to deal with the facts of the purchase and the multiple Admirals etc. benefiting from the trade will fade quietly from the scene or retire to Chiang Rai or somewhere else sufficiently far from the sea.

Edited July 6, 2016 by tuanku

[hawker9000]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

Useful for what?

What does the navy actually do?

I do not get the feeling they are actually doing something besides keeping their boats afloat and repainting them every now and then.

Thailand is not in war and the only shooting the army does is in it's own cities at its own people. Not much of a role for the navy there.

What will they do? Well guard the GOT from those evil, marauding, imperialistic "murcans" of course! Lol. Don't worry; somebody will be along shortly to elaborate on this fearsome threat I'm sure.

[smutcakes]

They should make it a pre-requiiste of the purchase that the approving parties, who obviously agree this is a good idea, spend a week aboard the vessel on exercises.

See how quickly it would be dropped then.

[Kasset Tak]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

Useful for what?

What does the navy actually do?

I do not get the feeling they are actually doing something besides keeping their boats afloat and repainting them every now and then.

Thailand is not in war and the only shooting the army does is in it's own cities at its own people. Not much of a role for the navy there.

So countries like UK, France, Canada should not have armed forces as they are not at war? The one country that should be restricted on their armed forces is US as they have a habit of using them and then complaining that some people (mostly Muslims) hate them... it's like if you would shoot at someone and then complain that they shoot back at you! The same goes for Israel that are complaining that the Palestinians are killing Israelis when Israel has killed about 10x as many Palestinians!

[MZurf]

Toys for the boys.

Total waste of money, but hey who cares we get new toys to play with.

Indeed, it's all ego games "wah!, he's got one. I want one! Wah!!"

The only threat to Thais is the Thai Armed Forces. Everything else is just a masturbatory fantasy. They'd probably bump them into Indonesia or India or something, look what they do to helicopters... Incompetents 'r' us.

Winnie

"Indeed, it's all ego games "wah!, he's got one. I want one! Wah!!"

When this bright idea was first floated one of the 'reasons" they gave was that having subs would make the neighboring countries become in awe of Thailand - kid you not!

[Christie Paul]

You want our tourists and access to our market?

Then you'll need some submarines.

[DILLIGAD]

Toys for the boys.

Total waste of money, but hey who cares we get new toys to play with.

Indeed, it's all ego games "wah!, he's got one. I want one! Wah!!"

The only threat to Thais is the Thai Armed Forces. Everything else is just a masturbatory fantasy. They'd probably bump them into Indonesia or India or something, look what they do to helicopters... Incompetents 'r' us.

Winnie

"Indeed, it's all ego games "wah!, he's got one. I want one! Wah!!"

When this bright idea was first floated one of the 'reasons" they gave was that having subs would make the neighboring countries become in awe of Thailand - kid you not!

Maybe they didn't understand the word 'awe'

Sort of reminds me of the old bumber sticker 'Jesus lives you but.....,.,,,,,'

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 6, 2016 by DILLIGAD

[TPI]

Well, other matters aside, I can understand why they might want them as a status symbol, what's a navy without submarines and an aircraft carrier, but I would imagine a few fast patrol boats might be more useful.

Useful for what?

What does the navy actually do?

I do not get the feeling they are actually doing something besides keeping their boats afloat and repainting them every now and then.

Thailand is not in war and the only shooting the army does is in it's own cities at its own people. Not much of a role for the navy there.

The RTN are considered by some experts to be the most efficient and effective pirates in the world, nothing is safe from them, historical dive sites (mother ships pillaged) fishing boats (nets and catch) boat people (islands of sex slaves....blamed on fisher folk?)!

[Redline]

Certainly the Chinese will be able to listen to all communications, and monitor every move of these subs. Same as they surely bugged all of the government buildings the built for Cambodia

[Dancin Dna 11]

What ever happened to the harrier jets and airplane carrier?

[Dancin Dna 11]

What ever happened to the harrier jets and airplane carrier?

Wait I found it....

{http://www.businessinsider.com/thailand-aircraft-carrier-has-no-aircraft-2015-2}

[whimsy]

Pretty sure that I remember reading a few years ago that the Thai navy already has several submarine crews that have been training for years waiting for submarines to sail in.