Nationwide Crackdown on Short Term Apartment Rentals?

[anotheruser]

I still book AirBNB and don't give a hood about it

Well good for you. However, if you try it in my building and they do not know who you are they will challenge you and when they verify you do not belong there throw you out and you will not get a refund. If you do make it to your room and are found later they will call the police who will then come and throw you out with no refund. There are signs posted at the lobby and elevator so it will be very hard to claim ignorance on this point.

[anotheruser]

There's consistent evidence of tightening of immigration law enforcement for the last few years.

I would only rent accommodations by legit hoteliers who do all the proper reporting. I stay at the same hotel in Bangkok 4-5 days every month and always give them my driver's ID. Well, that won't do now. Two weeks ago they told me they need to copy my passport and departure card from now on, a police order.

Are you Thai or Foreigner?

The hotels I've (British) stayed in in BKK, Phuket & Pattaya have been taking copies of passports and departure cards for many years, but it may be different for Thai nationals as there's actually no reason for you to even have a passport if you're staying in a hotel in Thailand. Just wondering......

I ... an American ... often stay in Thai hotels by showing only my USA ID card .... no passport.

BS no such thing as US ID Card

He probably means state ID card stop being pedantic.

[impulse]

Quotes all messed up, deleted...

Edited July 8, 2016 by impulse

[pmarlin]

There's consistent evidence of tightening of immigration law enforcement for the last few years.

I would only rent accommodations by legit hoteliers who do all the proper reporting. I stay at the same hotel in Bangkok 4-5 days every month and always give them my driver's ID. Well, that won't do now. Two weeks ago they told me they need to copy my passport and departure card from now on, a police order.

Are you Thai or Foreigner?

The hotels I've (British) stayed in in BKK, Phuket & Pattaya have been taking copies of passports and departure cards for many years, but it may be different for Thai nationals as there's actually no reason for you to even have a passport if you're staying in a hotel in Thailand. Just wondering......

I ... an American ... often stay in Thai hotels by showing only my USA ID card .... no passport.

So am I. Now what is an USA ID card ? I have a state drivers license, retired Military ID card but don't have a USA ID card.

[puukao]

book with AirBnB....pay it all....show up, then day 2 cops show up and you are out...

i wonder who called the cops?

Then the next day another farang shows up...

repeat

[impulse]

I ... an American ... often stay in Thai hotels by showing only my USA ID card .... no passport.

So am I. Now what is an USA ID card ? I have a state drivers license, retired Military ID card but don't have a USA ID card.

Now I'm confused. You just mentioned 2 government issued ID cards from the USA. But you go on to say you have no USA ID card?

Which is it?

[2fishin2]

There's consistent evidence of tightening of immigration law enforcement for the last few years.

I would only rent accommodations by legit hoteliers who do all the proper reporting. I stay at the same hotel in Bangkok 4-5 days every month and always give them my driver's ID. Well, that won't do now. Two weeks ago they told me they need to copy my passport and departure card from now on, a police order.

Are you Thai or Foreigner?

The hotels I've (British) stayed in in BKK, Phuket & Pattaya have been taking copies of passports and departure cards for many years, but it may be different for Thai nationals as there's actually no reason for you to even have a passport if you're staying in a hotel in Thailand. Just wondering......

I ... an American ... often stay in Thai hotels by showing only my USA ID card .... no passport.

BS no such thing as US ID Card

Wrong! there are State ID cards, issued by the DMV.

Incorrect there are 50 states which make up the US. There is no such thing as a US ID Card. What the foik does the DMV have to do with a US ID card anyways. Everybody knows what hotels need for ID. And there is always "that guy" who just has to be different and go against the flow.

[2fishin2]

I ... an American ... often stay in Thai hotels by showing only my USA ID card .... no passport.

So am I. Now what is an USA ID card ? I have a state drivers license, retired Military ID card but don't have a USA ID card.

Now I'm confused. You just mentioned 2 government issued ID cards from the USA. But you go on to say you have no USA ID card?

Which is it?

Pathetic that you open your mouth when you dont know what you are talking about

[impulse]

I ... an American ... often stay in Thai hotels by showing only my USA ID card .... no passport.

So am I. Now what is an USA ID card ? I have a state drivers license, retired Military ID card but don't have a USA ID card.

Now I'm confused. You just mentioned 2 government issued ID cards from the USA. But you go on to say you have no USA ID card?

Which is it?

Pathetic that you open your mouth when you dont know what you are talking about

No, I'm just not being pedantic.

But you go right on ahead and differentiate between a government issued ID from the USA (recognized in all 50 states because of the full faith and credit thingy) and a USA ID.

I'd contend that my Texas DL is a USA ID. It's from the USA and it identifies me uniquely. USA ID. QED on those 2 points alone. The fact that it's government issued and it's valid in all of the USA just makes it more so.

Edited July 8, 2016 by impulse

[elzach]

This notice was posted at my condo building about 2 months ago:

No "Day/Week Rental". Report to "The Management Office".

In typical Thai fashion, it leaves a lot of room for maneuvering / negotiation. Maybe 2 weeks not ok, but 3 weeks ok? Maybe 2 weeks not ok, but 2 weeks plus a nice 5K baht envelope by the owner ok? Who knows.

In any event, this crackdown is happening on probably every major city used by Airbnb and the likes. In Tokyo 3 months ago I saw similar instances. You will also notice that in most places most hosts will insist that you don't contact anyone in the building about anything.

Every good thing must come to an end and many hosts/owners "abused" that good thing. Sure it's YOUR place, but you cannot turn it to a revolving door hotel room for an unchecked number of tourists (I'm also referring to the standard practice from many Airbnb guests who book and get a key as a single traveler and then 3 other co-travelers move in).

Edited July 8, 2016 by elzach

[anotheruser]

Even if they were trying some type of crackdown you would have to be the worlds unluckiest person to get caught up in it.

How the hell would they even go about performing a crackdown.

Not that difficult. Fellow condo members are know to report the errant members who do this. There is a sign in the lobby of my BKK condo warning about this and saying renting condos for less than 30 days is illegal.

Most condo owners aren't too pleased to have Airbnb guests staying on short lets so that I'd more likely to cause a problem if the management of the condo enforce the rules.

Rightfully so. I rent but my building is very quiet and good security. If some unruly backpacker camped out and made any trouble at all I wouldn't hesitate to report them.

[bodymassagemyfriend]

book with AirBnB....pay it all....show up, then day 2 cops show up and you are out...

i wonder who called the cops?

Then the next day another farang shows up...

repeat

IF you mean the owner it is very unliely. There would be a lot of AirBnb disputes and bad reviews so he would be out. He his responsible for anything that happens during your stay ; you are paying for a user experience.

[bkkcanuck8]

This notice was posted at my condo building about 2 months ago:

IMG_20160708_002937.jpg

No "Day/Week Rental". Report to "The Management Office".

In typical Thai fashion, it leaves a lot of room for maneuvering / negotiation. Maybe 2 weeks not ok, but 3 weeks ok? Maybe 2 weeks not ok, but 2 weeks plus a nice 5K baht envelope by the owner ok? Who knows.

In any event, this crackdown is happening on probably every major city used by Airbnb and the likes. In Tokyo 3 months ago I saw similar instances. You will also notice that in most places most hosts will insist that you don't contact anyone in the building about anything.

Every good thing must come to an end and many hosts/owners "abused" that good thing. Sure it's YOUR place, but you cannot turn it to a revolving door hotel room for an unchecked number of tourists (I'm also referring to the standard practice from many Airbnb guests who book and get a key as a single traveler and then 3 other co-travelers move in).

When I was on the condo board in Toronto and monthly rentals started to happen the board imposed a rule requiring all leases to be at least 6 months in length. I was actually the only board member to vote against such regulation (I don't like regulation for the sake of it, especially since there were no reported problems).

When I first moved into my condo here (4 years ago; Bangkok) the building had a lot of vacant units. I have noticed the last few years that a lot of people show up for a couple weeks or a month then disappear and people often pick up the keys/passcard from the owner at the Condo office -- so they have to know. It would be very easy to crack down on it, the fee for unreported tenants could be made much more costly (as opposed to rather minor). The person who is the jurisdictive person could be pressured by laws that if charged they lose the ability to be one as well as any corporate board. All they have to do is to budget and book on any number of websites - places to stay (Singapore bank; credit card phone number etc for example) then have the police show up and charge the owners etc. It would only take a concerted effort (along with media coverage) to make it very difficult to rent your place short-term without worrying about the consequences. They could require anyone that rents their place for any period register with a government agency and receive a registration number which would be required to display on any advertisement - pro-rated to how long you rent a place. If you rent all year around in short-term rental arrangements the building would have to be a hotel and register and pay the fee (it is actually not much); but the biggest issue is all the regulations that that place has to abide by (not just reporting foreigners).

My gut though is that it is more about unwanted competition than following regulations and connected people pushing for a crackdown.

It could very well actually trigger a secondary problem if they pursued it since (without the statistics) I get a feeling that there is an oversupply of residential condos on the market right now - significantly... and people are finding a way to generate some secondary revenue. Take away the revenue and what is a glut could force a property bubble to correct - small changes can drive significant corrections.

[elzach]

This notice was posted at my condo building about 2 months ago:

IMG_20160708_002937.jpg

No "Day/Week Rental". Report to "The Management Office".

In typical Thai fashion, it leaves a lot of room for maneuvering / negotiation. Maybe 2 weeks not ok, but 3 weeks ok? Maybe 2 weeks not ok, but 2 weeks plus a nice 5K baht envelope by the owner ok? Who knows.

In any event, this crackdown is happening on probably every major city used by Airbnb and the likes. In Tokyo 3 months ago I saw similar instances. You will also notice that in most places most hosts will insist that you don't contact anyone in the building about anything.

Every good thing must come to an end and many hosts/owners "abused" that good thing. Sure it's YOUR place, but you cannot turn it to a revolving door hotel room for an unchecked number of tourists (I'm also referring to the standard practice from many Airbnb guests who book and get a key as a single traveler and then 3 other co-travelers move in).

When I was on the condo board in Toronto and monthly rentals started to happen the board imposed a rule requiring all leases to be at least 6 months in length. I was actually the only board member to vote against such regulation (I don't like regulation for the sake of it, especially since there were no reported problems).

When I first moved into my condo here (4 years ago; Bangkok) the building had a lot of vacant units. I have noticed the last few years that a lot of people show up for a couple weeks or a month then disappear and people often pick up the keys/passcard from the owner at the Condo office -- so they have to know. It would be very easy to crack down on it, the fee for unreported tenants could be made much more costly (as opposed to rather minor). The person who is the jurisdictive person could be pressured by laws that if charged they lose the ability to be one as well as any corporate board. All they have to do is to budget and book on any number of websites - places to stay (Singapore bank; credit card phone number etc for example) then have the police show up and charge the owners etc. It would only take a concerted effort (along with media coverage) to make it very difficult to rent your place short-term without worrying about the consequences. They could require anyone that rents their place for any period register with a government agency and receive a registration number which would be required to display on any advertisement - pro-rated to how long you rent a place. If you rent all year around in short-term rental arrangements the building would have to be a hotel and register and pay the fee (it is actually not much); but the biggest issue is all the regulations that that place has to abide by (not just reporting foreigners).

My gut though is that it is more about unwanted competition than following regulations and connected people pushing for a crackdown.

It could very well actually trigger a secondary problem if they pursued it since (without the statistics) I get a feeling that there is an oversupply of residential condos on the market right now - significantly... and people are finding a way to generate some secondary revenue. Take away the revenue and what is a glut could force a property bubble to correct - small changes can drive significant corrections.

Many valid points, but I sense you're talking from the perspective of a Canadian or American. You've been in BKK long enough (4 years you say) to know that these kind of "crackdowns" or "regulation enforcement" are money-making opportunities....in this case, for the condo management offices for example. They don't know the tenants, but they know the owners very well. Here's a nice envelope for Songkran (we falangs don't know how to do it, Thais know), everyone's happy.

I don't know about your condo, but in my condo the mgmt office seems to be completely useless/inefficient. An elevator (out of the three) has been out of service for 1 month now. If you ask the 4 girls and 2 guys who work there, they'll probably tell you "oh that means 2 are working, that's enough, no?"

Also, the other day True Online went out for the whole building, no broadband. In BKK that probably means 75% of the units in the building had no internet. After calling True they assured me they would come and fix it within 24 hrs. 3 hours later I went downstairs to ask if they had seen any True guys, they had no idea what I was talking about. Just some examples.

[bkkcanuck8]

Many valid points, but I sense you're talking from the perspective of a Canadian or American. You've been in BKK long enough (4 years you say) to know that these kind of "crackdowns" or "regulation enforcement" are money-making opportunities....in this case, for the condo management offices for example. They don't know the tenants, but they know the owners very well. Here's a nice envelope for Songkran (we falangs don't know how to do it, Thais know), everyone's happy.

I don't know about your condo, but in my condo the mgmt office seems to be completely useless/inefficient. An elevator (out of the three) has been out of service for 1 month now. If you ask the 4 girls and 2 guys who work there, they'll probably tell you "oh that means 2 are working, that's enough, no?"

Also, the other day True Online went out for the whole building, no broadband. In BKK that probably means 75% of the units in the building had no internet. After calling True they assured me they would come and fix it within 24 hrs. 3 hours later I went downstairs to ask if they had seen any True guys, they had no idea what I was talking about. Just some examples.

To be quite honest, I don't know much that goes on behind the scenes in my condo as far as day to day management goes. The odd time I get a survey - the last one asking if I would be interested in fibre - which I have waited for.... but then noticed the supplier would be TOT.... I just don't know of TOT fibre would be an improvement over 3bb ADSL

I am well aware that it is likely a money making endeavor... just don't think this one was initiated with the police since the push seems to be coming from other officials - and I know Hotels would not be happy with "unfair" competition.... and many hotels are owned by some very wealthy and influential Thais (even ones that are part of international chains).

I actually deal with the unit owner - which is a woman (mannerisms lead me to think that she is at least upper middle class) - so every time I have an issue I report it to her and it gets dealt with within 24 hours. Elevators (2) are never out of order. The pool area has been closed for a few months for retiling -- though I had never used it. My Toronto condo pool was closed for several months for retiling and change over to salt water systems... so that does not seem out of the ordinary.

I know lots of money changes hands under the table but have never passed any money myself.... I am sure there have been hints (not at the condo) in the past... but I just play dumb.... won't consider it unless someone literally is quite blunt about it and then I would think about it... but no-one has ever been blunt about it... probably just got labelled a stupid farang

[CodyB]

I rent airbnb on my short trips to BKK.

Why?

With exception to the lack of daily cleaning, for 1,000THB I'm going to get 30-40SQM, with a nice view and fibe broadband in a favourable neighbourhood (for myself) like Ekkamai, Thonglor or Rama 9.

Try getting that for under 2,000 THB in a hotel. You will be hard pressed.

It has NEVER been an issue, as I've never so much as seen my next door neighbours. If it ever was, I always come to agreement with my host that he/she is a friend and I am staying at a friend's house.

With that being said, if the cops want to get super heavy, I may reconsider my position, but I have strong doubts. As a racquet, this would be hard to maintain. I've dealt with the stingiest, crookedest stratas in Australia, being quite confident with dealing with thai's, I'd have no doubt that I would own them in any attempted shakedown.