Three teens died in bid to escape police chase for street race in Bangkok

[Bluespunk]

It's always a shame when something like this happens, that people always start looking for the guilty party. As a parent with a 20 year old son into bikes, I have spent the last 4 years worried about my sons riding. He is a biker and was riding up to sixty miles a day as soon as he could ride a moped legally. I have had the call that he had been hit by a car. Seemed they had installed new traffic lights on a roundabout and the car had driven through on red. Luckily my son survived. But I would have hated then for someone to tell me it was my fault as I should know where my 16 year old son was.

So these kids were younger than 16. Different rules in Thailand and so what? Their parents will be devastated and no amount of finger pointing will bring the kids back.

But it is also not the Police officers fault, they are under huge pressure to address the situation, constantly accused of failing to do their jobs. Everybody says they need to address the scooter problem, but when they try and use the direct enforcement approach to do so it will always lead to conflict.

There is no right and wrong here, just three kids, who being typical kids and doing what kids will do, have now unfortunatly lost their lives.

RIP

I'm sorry but while I agree with a lot of what you say but there is some wrong here, the method the BIB used was absolutly wrong and resulted in three deaths.

Yes the BIB have the right to use force as part of their job but it has to be appropriate and in this incident that was absolutly not the case.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Bluespunk

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

But it is also not the Police officers fault, they are under huge pressure to address the situation, constantly accused of failing to do their jobs. Everybody says they need to address the scooter problem, but when they try and use the direct enforcement approach to do so it will always lead to conflict.

There is no right and wrong here, just three kids, who being typical kids and doing what kids will do, have now unfortunatly lost their lives.

Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish.

Regardless of what the Thai police are accused of doing or not doing, engaging in unsafe and unprofessional conduct in an attempt to apprehend fleeing suspects is their fault. No professional law enforcement agency I know would have their motorcycle officers attempt the kind of maneuver reported in the OP article in that kind of a situation.

Typical kids doing what kids will do? Fleeing pursuing police officers at high rates of speed? In my younger years, I don't ever recall doing that and I don't recall anyone of my age group that I knew doing that either. So I'd hardly say it's "typical." Just like the police were wrong, the teenagers were wrong for trying to flee the police once the police tried to apprehend them.

[CarolJadzia]

But it is also not the Police officers fault, they are under huge pressure to address the situation, constantly accused of failing to do their jobs. Everybody says they need to address the scooter problem, but when they try and use the direct enforcement approach to do so it will always lead to conflict.

There is no right and wrong here, just three kids, who being typical kids and doing what kids will do, have now unfortunatly lost their lives.

Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish.

Regardless of what the Thai police are accused of doing or not doing, engaging in unsafe and unprofessional conduct in an attempt to apprehend fleeing suspects is their fault. No professional law enforcement agency I know would have their motorcycle officers attempt the kind of maneuver reported in the OP article in that kind of a situation.

Typical kids doing what kids will do? Fleeing pursuing police officers at high rates of speed? In my younger years, I don't ever recall doing that and I don't recall anyone of my age group that I knew doing that either. So I'd hardly say it's "typical." Just like the police were wrong, the teenagers were wrong for trying to flee the police once the police tried to apprehend them.

Really? So if you feel no other Police force will do that, excluding the cases I could show of American Police officers and Australian Police officers using unnecessary force which are all well recorded and take limited google searching to find plenty. I can share a clip from just a couple of days ago where British Police decided to run someone off the road https://www.facebook.com/john.curtis.925/videos/10201823760032743/

I am sorry that you cannot remember experiencing the adventures of your teens, if you want to discuss the teenage mind and what the "average" kid will do then I suggest you have a look at "The Power and Purpose of the Teenage brain," It gives interesting up to date insight into why Teenagers act as they do.

[Mudcrab]

The police method of stopping speeding cars and bikes here displays a complete lack of training and a quite amazing disregard for public safety.

There are numerous youtube vids and newspaper stories of shots being fired into wheels or engines in a clumsy attempt to stop a vehicle. Where will the bullet end up? What will the result of the crash be?

I myself was riding my 125 cc bike on Viphavadi-Rangsit. I was in the wrong lane for motorbikes and blissfully unaware as I cruised along at 70 kph when all of sudden a cop pulled up alongside and chopped my right arm with his left hand to request me to stop. A ridiculously stupid manouevre which could have very easily led to me crashing at 70 kph.

It really beggars belief how deep the lack of any duty of care is.

Or your lack of knowledge of the road rules

70kph,,,wow........go Evel

Edited July 11, 2016 by Mudcrab

[farcanell]

But it is also not the Police officers fault, they are under huge pressure to address the situation, constantly accused of failing to do their jobs. Everybody says they need to address the scooter problem, but when they try and use the direct enforcement approach to do so it will always lead to conflict.

There is no right and wrong here, just three kids, who being typical kids and doing what kids will do, have now unfortunatly lost their lives.

Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish.

Regardless of what the Thai police are accused of doing or not doing, engaging in unsafe and unprofessional conduct in an attempt to apprehend fleeing suspects is their fault. No professional law enforcement agency I know would have their motorcycle officers attempt the kind of maneuver reported in the OP article in that kind of a situation.

Typical kids doing what kids will do? Fleeing pursuing police officers at high rates of speed? In my younger years, I don't ever recall doing that and I don't recall anyone of my age group that I knew doing that either. So I'd hardly say it's "typical." Just like the police were wrong, the teenagers were wrong for trying to flee the police once the police tried to apprehend them.

Really?

Seriously?

With Thai police using their own vehicles, in some cases, because of budget restraint, and buying their own bullets, as some here have claimed ( admittedly... I cannot confirm this, it's per other TV posters claims) are you really suggesting that they are a "professional law enforcement agency" per first world standards?

Get a grip... They are doing the best that they are trained to do....,which is far less than could be expected of a first world country.... Although these first world countries are not immune to similar results.... Attempting to suggest that Thai police are as professional as their Counterparts in other countries is sheer stupidity.

Yes... An enquiry into their (police) actions needs to be undertaken... Although we all know it will be biased ( perhaps pointless).... But these officers were doing their job... I wish them a speedy recovery from injuries received whilst doing what their training, (albeit substandard by expat standards) taught them to do.... Or did not teach them, as the case may be.

It's rather unbelievable to me, that if the BIB do nothing... TV readers complain.... Yet when they try to do something, TV readers still complain... Yes, there is a middle ground, and I have little doubt that the cops were looking for this middle ground... But poop happens, thankfully herein it was to the law breakers, not law enforcers

Think back.... Not that long ago, this forum was disgusted when these street racer hooligans nearly beat an innocent to death.... and now this forum is disgusted that the BIB are trying to address the problem.

Here's an idea that might appeal to y'all.... Anarchy.

If you choose to indulge in risky behavior, were death is a possibility... Plan a funeral.

[Mudcrab]

Driver over 18? Drivers license? Helmets?

The world lost at least one idiot in this crash! If the police order you to stop and you decide to speed away and don't stop then you are the one that is responsible for what happens after! The parents of the pillion riders should blame the driver and if he was under 18 then they should sue his parents as they would be responsible for him and he having a motorcycle in the first place.

Sue sue sue...get real mate...I was riding a motorbike at 14 in Australia...my parents didn't know....they would have kicked my arse inside out if they did.

They weren't irresponsible in anyway, shape, manner or form.

Kids will be kids...sometimes with tragic results.

[Mudcrab]

The police method of stopping speeding cars and bikes here displays a complete lack of training and a quite amazing disregard for public safety.

There are numerous youtube vids and newspaper stories of shots being fired into wheels or engines in a clumsy attempt to stop a vehicle. Where will the bullet end up? What will the result of the crash be?

I myself was riding my 125 cc bike on Viphavadi-Rangsit. I was in the wrong lane for motorbikes and blissfully unaware as I cruised along at 70 kph when all of sudden a cop pulled up alongside and chopped my right arm with his left hand to request me to stop. A ridiculously stupid manouevre which could have very easily led to me crashing at 70 kph.

It really beggars belief how deep the lack of any duty of care is.

It's not lack of duty of care, it's from lack of training and stupidity. In (I think) most states in Australia once any pursuit looks to be leading to a nasty outcome, it is mandatory to terminate the pursuit.

Not any more...too many 11 years olds stealing cars...people have had a gutfull.

[Mudcrab]

RIP...

If they weren't racing this would not have happened.

If they weren't running from the police this would not have happened.

If they were wearing helmets they might still be alive.

If the police didn't stop the driver he may have killed even more people in the future.

A lot of "ifs" but each one is something to think about.

None of the things these teens did deserved them being killed.

The only thing that needs thinking about for me is how long the cops should be gaoled for.

They could have stopped when asked...but they didn't...if the cops hadn't hit them somebody else might have or they might have hit an immovable object with the same deadly results.

Or they could have lived to do it all again the next night with great face added.....only a matter of time until it happens (crash and die) either way.

I know that sounds callous but that is reality.

[Mudcrab]

Racers could have killed innocent people

Driving like idiots....good the cops went

After them, 100% the teenagers fault, told

To stop and ignored the police, sad, but maybe

Other teenagers will learn....

It will make bugger difference. Probably better to exterminate the kids on the spot, saves fuel, no crashed bikes and the BIB can take it easy without any risk to themselves,now that should teach the kids a great lesson in life, shouldn't it?

according to thai culture, the kids were evil and will be reincarnated into a dog or something. thais DO NOT LEARN LESSONS, they only learn to scam more effectively.

i wonder how many TV posting rules that statement broke?

[Bluespunk]

RIP...

If they weren't racing this would not have happened.

If they weren't running from the police this would not have happened.

If they were wearing helmets they might still be alive.

If the police didn't stop the driver he may have killed even more people in the future.

A lot of "ifs" but each one is something to think about.

None of the things these teens did deserved them being killed.

The only thing that needs thinking about for me is how long the cops should be gaoled for.

They could have stopped when asked...but they didn't...if the cops hadn't hit them somebody else might have or they might have hit an immovable object with the same deadly results.

Or they could have lived to do it all again the next night with great face added.....only a matter of time until it happens (crash and die) either way.

I know that sounds callous but that is reality.

Ifs, maybes, possiblies, yeah the world is full of them, but the fact is that it was the BIB actions that led to the deaths of these teenagers and for that they should be investigated and gaoled if their negligence is deemed to have led to this wholly unnecessary loss of life.

It's nothing to do with being callous or liberal, the police have the right to use force if necessary but that right carries the responsibility of ensuring any such use is appropriate.

In this case it was not and had tragic consequences.

[farcanell]

Driver over 18? Drivers license? Helmets?

The world lost at least one idiot in this crash! If the police order you to stop and you decide to speed away and don't stop then you are the one that is responsible for what happens after! The parents of the pillion riders should blame the driver and if he was under 18 then they should sue his parents as they would be responsible for him and he having a motorcycle in the first place.

Sue sue sue...get real mate...I was riding a motorbike at 14 in Australia...my parents didn't know....they would have kicked my arse inside out if they did.

They weren't irresponsible in anyway, shape, manner or form.

Kids will be kids...sometimes with tragic results.

We have all probably done similar.... I got my first bike at 18.... And was riding unlicensed.... When the old man found out, he called the cops onto me.... That's what a caring and responsible parent does... Though I resented him for it for many a year.... But he did it out of love (and fear) for a son

That said... Using terms like "killing", "manslaughter", "murder", "police brutality", "police incompetence", "unprofessional", or whatever, are perhaps unwarranted.... How about "death by misadventure"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

With Thai police using their own vehicles, in some cases, because of budget restraint, and buying their own bullets, as some here have claimed ( admittedly... I cannot confirm this, it's per other TV posters claims) are you really suggesting that they are a "professional law enforcement agency" per first world standards?

Get a grip... They are doing the best that they are trained to do....,which is far less than could be expected of a first world country.... Although these first world countries are not immune to similar results.... Attempting to suggest that Thai police are as professional as their Counterparts in other countries is sheer stupidity.

No one, certainly not me, was suggesting the Thai police are a professional law enforcement agency per first world standards. I certainly did not say or even suggest that.

What I did say, is that no professional law enforcement agency that I know [meaning others elsewhere] would have tried to stop the motorcyclists in the manner described in the OP article. Those two ideas are two entirely different separate matters.

As for "the best that they are trained to do," neither you nor I know how the RTP have been trained, or even if they received any training, on how to handle those kinds of situations.

The only sheer stupidity involved here is your inaccurately characterizing my prior post, which was clear in what it said.

Edited July 11, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[happy Joe]

No, the morons who pulled in front of the bike with three teenagers on it are responsible for these deaths.

They should be arrested and charged with causing the deaths when they get out of hospital.

Another opinion of rare stupidity.

In all countries of the world the driver has to stop on the orders of the police. Furthermore, the total lack of mastery of their speed made these dangerous for all.

The police had a duty to stop them. They did it courageously to the detriment of their physical integrity.

Throw discredit on them is absolutely filthy.

[farcanell]

But it is also not the Police officers fault, they are under huge pressure to address the situation, constantly accused of failing to do their jobs. Everybody says they need to address the scooter problem, but when they try and use the direct enforcement approach to do so it will always lead to conflict.

There is no right and wrong here, just three kids, who being typical kids and doing what kids will do, have now unfortunatly lost their lives.

Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish.

Regardless of what the Thai police are accused of doing or not doing, engaging in unsafe and unprofessional conduct in an attempt to apprehend fleeing suspects is their fault. No professional law enforcement agency I know would have their motorcycle officers attempt the kind of maneuver reported in the OP article in that kind of a situation.

Typical kids doing what kids will do? Fleeing pursuing police officers at high rates of speed? In my younger years, I don't ever recall doing that and I don't recall anyone of my age group that I knew doing that either. So I'd hardly say it's "typical." Just like the police were wrong, the teenagers were wrong for trying to flee the police once the police tried to apprehend them.

Not much of what you said was clear.... Given that this is Thailand, where alternative measures (and safer for the cops) would be a bullet in the back

Is it that you think that the RTP are trained to the standard of first world police forces, who actively practice pursuit protocol, For days/ weeks on end, in some countries?

Or do you perhaps believe that they practice apprehending fleeing felons on motorbikes ,and have safe and approved protocols in this matter?

And also, what makes you believe that the officers, attempting to do their sworn duty, knew the age of the offenders that they were pursuing?

Your assuming, for unknown reasons, that the RTP are a trained and professional organization.... Why would you do that?... But if your assumption is correct, in that they are professional, then this is the standard of training to become professional, in this country

Just like seals are held to a higher standard than the regular GI... You get what you pay for.

The officers took action that they deemed appropriate to the situation.... Yes, that's an assumption, but again, to suggest that they did that, knowing that they could harm themselves, is sheer stupidly on behalf of anyone thinking that, and if this includes yourself... Then own that stupidity.

[FredNL]

To become a policeman in Thailand, you only need an IQ of 82.

In Europe with an IQ of 82, they lock you up because you are a possible danger to yourself or to others...

[trogers]

First question - do those teenagers possess driving licenses?

If not, why do their parents allow them on motorcycles? They are the first responsible party to the outcome.

their entire family makes less money than you do. the thai system is designed to create slaves in the society, we have "pu yais" and other fake titles of superiority.

your right though, thai kids shouldnt be driving motorbikes, they should be out having drive by shootings or out stabbing random people, like the US or UK.

you have an easy life in thailand. maybe your thai GF does everything for you. To me, you are in a very very bad position. one day you will have the tiniest of problems that will be compounded with the addition of a thai policeman or thai female. and ill say, "where was your paperwork? You should have known that would happen. "

What has income level to do with being responsible with rearing one's child? We see such irresponsibility in all rungs of Thai society, young kids on motorcycles and old *kids* in Benz and Ferraris...

[balo]

So did they wear a helmet ? Probably not. Did the police officer wear a helmet? Probably not. RIP

[Gecko123]

The same people pillorying the police for giving chase are the first to criticize them for the slightest sign of hesitancy or inaction.

It's called making a judgment call. Were any of you there?

Edited July 11, 2016 by Gecko123

[Thian]

Many motocy drivers won't stop for the police because they always get away with it. Nothing happens if you don't stop.

Racing kids is a big problem in BKK, especially at night. The police has to show them who's boss and if they won't stop at all use some violence.

[captspectre]

Should not have happened,Police too gung-ho cutting

in front of the M/C with 3 riders.

regards worgeordie

I don't agree, now there are three less teen idiots on the road! they KNEW that street racing isillegal but they flaunt the law and do what they want, well now they did what they wanted to do, and that was run! they will not be running anymore!

[captspectre]

To become a policeman in Thailand, you only need an IQ of 82.

In Europe with an IQ of 82, they lock you up because you are a possible danger to yourself or to others...

if that is so, why are there so many that are walking on sukhumvit soi-4? did they slip through the cracks?

[Artisi]

Artisi is right in his claim (post 22) that Aussi police are required to call off any chases that may cause danger to others... This is both to protect the general public, and the police,( from accusations of overzealous behavior, etc etc) however, sooner or later, they usually still get their man.

That said, cutting of the flight or retreat path is a common tactic (more especially with cars though), as is the PIT maneuver, or the placement of spikes across the road.... All life threatening tactics for both pursued and pursuers.

Fleeing police is a risky crime in itself, and those fleeing are 100% culpable for the outcome, in my opinion anyway.... And in this instance, it seems that the perps have paid the ultimate penalty for their actions

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

Was there 1 doing the crime or 3,for

all we know the 2 passengers were prepared to stop.

But certainly a stupid tactic by the BIB.

[Artisi]

Should not have happened,Police too gung-ho cutting

in front of the M/C with 3 riders.

regards worgeordie

I don't agree, now there are three less teen idiots on the road! they KNEW that street racing isillegal but they flaunt the law and do what they want, well now they did what they wanted to do, and that was run! they will not be running anymore!

Let's just blame the driver, the 2 passengers may not have agreed with fleeing.

[Artisi]

Wow ! 50% say the BIB were wrong and 50% say the underage , no crash helmet , no licence and no idea teens were wrong . My vote goes the BIb , not often they get a well done from me but this time yes , BIB 1 - Hooligans 0.

Yeah, killing 3 teens is real justice.

For pity's sake...

I fully agree.

The racing of bikes needs to be curtailed but using the tactic resulting in 3 deaths with the possibility it could have been 5, doesn't justify the stupidity employed.

But just another 3 kids dead, but who really cares other than a few parents, maybe relations and friends.

[Artisi]

Driver over 18? Drivers license? Helmets?

The world lost at least one idiot in this crash! If the police order you to stop and you decide to speed away and don't stop then you are the one that is responsible for what happens after! The parents of the pillion riders should blame the driver and if he was under 18 then they should sue his parents as they would be responsible for him and he having a motorcycle in the first place.

Sue sue sue...get real mate...I was riding a motorbike at 14 in Australia...my parents didn't know....they would have kicked my arse inside out if they did.

They weren't irresponsible in anyway, shape, manner or form.

Kids will be kids...sometimes with tragic results.

We have all probably done similar.... I got my first bike at 18.... And was riding unlicensed.... When the old man found out, he called the cops onto me.... That's what a caring and responsible parent does... Though I resented him for it for many a year.... But he did it out of love (and fear) for a son

That said... Using terms like "killing", "manslaughter", "murder", "police brutality", "police incompetence", "unprofessional", or whatever, are perhaps unwarranted.... How about "death by misadventure"

How about death by "applied stupidity"

[happy Joe]

To become a policeman in Thailand, you only need an IQ of 82.

In Europe with an IQ of 82, they lock you up because you are a possible danger to yourself or to others...

And IQ below 60 are allowed to post on Thai Visa criticizing the country ...

[Bluespunk]

No, the morons who pulled in front of the bike with three teenagers on it are responsible for these deaths.

They should be arrested and charged with causing the deaths when they get out of hospital.

Another opinion of rare stupidity.

In all countries of the world the driver has to stop on the orders of the police. Furthermore, the total lack of mastery of their speed made these dangerous for all.

The police had a duty to stop them. They did it courageously to the detriment of their physical integrity.

Throw discredit on them is absolutely filthy.

Stupidity eh? Yeah I think we all know stupidity when we read it.

The BIB are in the wrong here. Their negligence, or incompetence really, caused the deaths of these teens. They are responsible for them and should be put on trial for their actions.

Any force used must be responsible and appropriate and in this case that was not so.

To blame the teens for their own deaths is what is filthy. Disgusting and repellent even as well.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

Many motocy drivers won't stop for the police because they always get away with it. Nothing happens if you don't stop.

Racing kids is a big problem in BKK, especially at night. The police has to show them who's boss and if they won't stop at all use some violence.

There are much better options than killing those who act in the manner these teens did.

[Artisi]

To become a policeman in Thailand, you only need an IQ of 82.

In Europe with an IQ of 82, they lock you up because you are a possible danger to yourself or to others...

And IQ below 60 are allowed to post on Thai Visa criticizing the country ...

Well done, you just confirmed your theory

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

But it is also not the Police officers fault, they are under huge pressure to address the situation, constantly accused of failing to do their jobs. Everybody says they need to address the scooter problem, but when they try and use the direct enforcement approach to do so it will always lead to conflict.

There is no right and wrong here, just three kids, who being typical kids and doing what kids will do, have now unfortunatly lost their lives.

Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish.

Regardless of what the Thai police are accused of doing or not doing, engaging in unsafe and unprofessional conduct in an attempt to apprehend fleeing suspects is their fault. No professional law enforcement agency I know would have their motorcycle officers attempt the kind of maneuver reported in the OP article in that kind of a situation.

Typical kids doing what kids will do? Fleeing pursuing police officers at high rates of speed? In my younger years, I don't ever recall doing that and I don't recall anyone of my age group that I knew doing that either. So I'd hardly say it's "typical." Just like the police were wrong, the teenagers were wrong for trying to flee the police once the police tried to apprehend them.

Not much of what you said was clear.... Given that this is Thailand, where alternative measures (and safer for the cops) would be a bullet in the back

Is it that you think that the RTP are trained to the standard of first world police forces, who actively practice pursuit protocol, For days/ weeks on end, in some countries?

Or do you perhaps believe that they practice apprehending fleeing felons on motorbikes ,and have safe and approved protocols in this matter?

And also, what makes you believe that the officers, attempting to do their sworn duty, knew the age of the offenders that they were pursuing?

Your assuming, for unknown reasons, that the RTP are a trained and professional organization.... Why would you do that?... But if your assumption is correct, in that they are professional, then this is the standard of training to become professional, in this country

Just like seals are held to a higher standard than the regular GI... You get what you pay for.

The officers took action that they deemed appropriate to the situation.... Yes, that's an assumption, but again, to suggest that they did that, knowing that they could harm themselves, is sheer stupidly on behalf of anyone thinking that, and if this includes yourself... Then own that stupidity.

All of the things you're saying have nothing to do with what I actually posted.

I never talked about what the Thai police were trained to do. I never talked about the age of the fleeing suspects. I certainly never assumed the RTP are a professionally trained organization.

If you want to keep pulling all thus stuff out of your ****, do it on your own... not on the heels of my post.