Mother Needs Help To Get Her Child Home

[zappa]

I have an English friend who needs advice on how to get her Thai citizen child home, urgently. Unfortunately most of the childs documents (birth certificate, etc.) are still with the childs Thai father and it's not safe for her to go and get them. She does have the childs Thai passport, this is an urgent request as waiting for the embassy to open is driving the poor girl mad!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Was the child born in Thailand and is it a dual citizen ? Also, does it have the same name as the mom?

[Bluecat]

I have an English friend who needs advice on how to get her Thai citizen child home, urgently. Unfortunately most of the childs documents (birth certificate, etc.) are still with the childs Thai father and it's not safe for her to go and get them. She does have the childs Thai passport, this is an urgent request as waiting for the embassy to open is driving the poor girl mad!!

The best she can do is go to Thailand and make up with the father.

By the way, on which basis does she consider that her Thai son home is UK,....?

[zappa]

Dr. Patpong no the child does not have dual citizenship but does have its mothers surname.

Bluecat would you try and make up with someone who beats you and your child every day.

[possom]

dont listen to bluecat , has she tried talking to the airlines ??????, they usually know the rules as will not carry you if you are not eligible to enter the country ,as they will face a fine by uk immigration ,!! just an idea ,worth a try , !! DON MEUANG is allways open !!!!!

[mouse]

Doc please correct me if I am wrong but there is a convention also signed by Thailand that states that a child cannot be removed from the country of brith without the consent of both parents. To do so is a violation of the International law and the offending parent can be arrested and the child would then be returned to the home country or o#####ry of birth.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Doc please correct me if I am wrong but there is a convention also signed by Thailand that states that a child cannot be removed from the country of brith without the consent of both parents. To do so is a violation of the International law and the offending parent can be arrested and the child would then be returned to the home country or o#####ry of birth.

Possible Mouse. But the joint parental signature required for any passport issue, is a fair defense. I got no answer as to the birthplace, but if the child was born in Thailand, they are going to look harder. Can mom obttain a farang passport for the kid ? The issue is complex, and the detail scant. Too hard for me.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Spoil us. What is mom's nationality and please confirm that the child is illegitimate.

[zappa]

Mother is English and yes the child was born out of wedlock. The child was born in Thailand and she could get an English passport but wishes to leave the country before the father can find her. This girls really afraid what he might do to her and the chid if he finds them.

[Richard W]

The quickest travel document to get is probably a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode for the child. If the consulate has any heart they can issue that on the balance of probabilities (unless the girl has a very common surname) and if they have any qualms they should alert UK immigration to detain the girl and her child pending a DNA test to confirm that they are mother and child or full siblings. The UK immigration pages say that the UK does not recognise Thai grants of custody!

[Bluecat]

Aren't we missing something here?

How is the child doing?

How old is he?

Is he unhappy with his father in Thailand?

What makes everybody thinks that it is better for him to live with its mother in UK compared to living with its father in Thailand?

Not the subject, maybe, but I for one would be quite interested to know,...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The quickest travel document to get is probably a Certificate of Entitlement to the Right of Abode for the child. If the consulate has any heart they can issue that on the balance of probabilities (unless the girl has a very common surname) and if they have any qualms they should alert UK immigration to detain the girl and her child pending a DNA test to confirm that they are mother and child or full siblings. The UK immigration pages say that the UK does not recognise Thai grants of custody!

The question of a visa for the UK must be addressed. She needs to get to the Brit Embassy tomorrow morning. No airline will uplift the child unless there is a formal document evidencing access to the UK

[Richard W]

What makes everybody thinks that it is better for him to live with its mother in UK compared to living with its father in Thailand?

Answer:

Bluecat would you try and make up with someone who beats you and your child every day.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

What makes everybody thinks that it is better for him to live with its mother in UK compared to living with its father in Thailand?

Answer:

Bluecat would you try and make up with someone who beats you and your child every day.

Take out the emotion and what are you left with ? An allegation of abuse. It'll take somewhat more for the Brit's to issue documentation enabling the child to be removed from Thai jurisdiction. How provable are the allegations ? Another matter not to be overlooked, is whether Thai Immigration will permit the departure of a Thai born child on an emergency document. Even blonde, blue eyed babes born in the Kingdom of foreign parents with the appropriate national passport, and accompanied by the parents are well looked at before they are permitted to leave Thailand.

[Bluecat]

What makes everybody thinks that it is better for him to live with its mother in UK compared to living with its father in Thailand?

Answer:

Bluecat would you try and make up with someone who beats you and your child every day.

Sorry, Richard, I missed it but anyway, I'm not so much of a believer of others' story these days.

She was in Thailand with "husband" and child and was beaten every day by the Thai "husband".

What does she do? She goes back to UK and ask for help to get her Thai boy in UK.

What does she hope?

I think quite a few posters here are deceiving her into hoping she will get him back the "official" way,...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Not me Blue. I am under no illusion that this will be anything other than either an exercise in futility, or a long drawn out affair. There has been a lot of kid stealing and it is watched out for ... very carefully. As I said, mother's allegations need a shitload of support.

[Bluecat]

Not me Blue. I am under no illusion that this will be anything other than either an exercise in futility, or a long drawn out affair. There has been a lot of kid stealing and it is watched out for   ...   very carefully. As I said, mother's allegations need a shitload of support.

I know, Dr.. We have seen far more "favorable" cases rejected.

I'll go back to my first posting.

If you really want your son back, the only way is through the father.

If he is poor, money will help.

If he he is medium class or rich, well, ...

In any case, you will not go anywhere without talking to him,...

So, please, even if it is not easy in your present state of mind, start THINKING,...

[Richard W]

What does she do? She goes back to UK and ask for help to get her Thai boy in UK.

What does she hope?

I think quite a few posters here are deceiving her into hoping she will get him back the "official" way,...

The mother has:

1. The child.

2. The child's passport.

3. Her own passport (I presume a British passport, and that she was born in the UK).

What documentation is need to leave Thailand for the UK? I suspect:

1. For child, British passport or visa equivalent.

How suspicious would a 'certificate of entitlement to right of abode' look? I couldn't find the fee to work out whether it was cheaper than a British passport. If it's more expensive I suppose it would look as peculiar as an emergency British passport. To get this certificate, they would normally need the following documents:

(a) The child's birth certificate. I don't know how you obtain one in this case. Go to the amphoe mob-handed for safety?

( The mother's passport.

© The child's passport.

2. Possibly, for the child permission to leave the country from the father. How would the identity of the father be determined? If Tracey Smythson (British citizen) is taking her son, Anand Smythson (Thai citizen, born in Thailand), out of Thailand, how would they check the validity of any such permission? It seems to me that any Thai man (of native origin) could pass himself off as the father. This is the one point at which an 'official' (ie. legal) route begin to look difficult.

What is the actual procedure in this respect if a child born in Thailand and its mother are leaving Thailand together? We must have enough collective experience to know!

I've just spoken to an English (clearly farang) friend who, together with his wife, recently brought her (not his) Thai citizen children to England. No one at Don Muang gave any impression of being interested in whether it was in order, from the Thai point of view, for the children to leave the country. He reckoned that any checks for child abduction were carried out during the visa application. At the visa application, they wanted to see evidence of sole custody, but I'm not sure that that wasn't because the immigration rules are clearest in the presence of sole custody.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The kid had a visa to enter the UK in that case ....right ? DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER

[Richard W]

Doc please correct me if I am wrong but there is a convention also signed by Thailand that states that a child cannot be removed from the country of brith without the consent of both parents. To do so is a violation of the International law and the offending parent can be arrested and the child would then be returned to the home country or o#####ry of birth.

Would you be talking about the Hague Convention of 25 October 1980 on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction? As far as I can see, this only applies if the parent from whom the child is taken has sole or joint custody. (It seems that nothing under English law stops a parent with sole custody from emigrating with the child against the other parent's wishes.) The UK and the USA have no mechanism to stop children being taken across borders; they rely on restrictions on the issuing of passports and visas.

[Richard W]

The kid had a visa to enter the UK in that case ....right ? DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER

So the issue is what happens when the child is born in Thailand and didn't need a visa. The 'certificate of entitlement to the right of abode' is not, strictly speaking, a visa. What does well looked at mean? Does anyone know what documents have been demanded in such cases? A parallel case might be farang father taking a child with Thai/ farang joint nationality (so no visas) to visit the grandparents who don't like their mother. Any examples there?

[anamore]

Richard is right: child born out of a married couple is under custody of both parents, unless by the judge decided otherwhise. But this is more of a western rule. When travelling alone with children in europe nobody asks at the airport for a permission from the other parent, at least it never happened to me with my children with another surname and even more dan 20 years ago. Only one time I had to show another passpoort wich proved that they where my children.

I don't know about Thailand but in the middle east if a man decides he wants to keep his children with him the law wil help him and even at the airport the children wil be taken away from the mother by the police even if they have dual nationality and parents are not divorced.

In this case in thailand the child is thai, abroad the child can be thai of english depending on the choice of the parents (wich passpoort they present to identificate the child). If Thai authorities decide to act om defense of the fathers interest they can forbid the mother taking the child abroad and give it back to the father, and the english embassy can't doe anything against it.

If this thai man thinks his wife wants to go out of the country he can warn the police at the airport and other borders. In the worste case he can accuse her of kidnapping the child.

Maybe she could better go to the embassy and ask protection for her and her child until living the country, this is if the child is also english, or even to mediate in this probleem if living unoticed proves impossible.

Quite scary situation and them think that in other threads foreigner couples write about having children born in Thailand who don't even have a passpoort.

I am sorry to say but thru this site I get the feeling that there are quite a lot of farang idiots in thailand.

People get into all kind of things without realizing that they can't count on protection or legal aid as if they were in their homeland.

When you live in a 3rd world country you should be able to live/run out of the country on a short notice. It can be the only way of keeping you away from trouble or even saving your life.

good luck

good luck for the lady and her child.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Is the the British Embassy in Bangkok open today ? That is where the lady needs to go to begin sorting this out. If she was the sole legal custodian, she'd have some show, but she isn't. No Embassy penpusher is likely to jeopardize his/her career in a potentially messy case.