Thaksin Accused Of Giving The License To Kill

[george]

Thaksin accused of giving the license to kill during war on drugs

BANGKOK: -- Ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his government should be held responsible for the systematic killings of more than 2,500 people during the notorious war on drugs, National Human Rights Commission's chairman Somchai Homla-or said Sunday.

"Thaksin and his government has committed crime against humanity," Somchai said at a seminar.

The seminar focused on the violation of human rights in so many cases that Thaksin-led government labelled as "silence killings", drug traders being silenced by their fellows from the same illicit trade.

However, Somchai Sunday accused Thaksin, former Interior Minister Wan Muhamad Noor Matha and former permanent secretary for Interior Sermsak Pongpanich of virtually issuing the license to kill during the war on drugs three years ago.

"Thaksin often reiterated that drug sellers would have only two choices: death or jail," Somchai added.

-- The Nation 2006-11-19

[sriracha john]

"Thaksin often reiterated that drug sellers would have only two choices: death or jail," Somchai added.

...and then shortly thereafter, removed the jail option ... and extended the death option to many other Thai citizens not involved with drugs.

Start with the man at the top first... the instigator of this slaughter... the director of this effort... the CEO of mayhem... Thaksin.

Then by all means, feel free to work their way down the food-chain of his stooges and

co-conspirators.

Keep up the good work, Somchai.

[sriracha john]

Given wikipedia's and the United Nations definitions:

A crime against humanity is a term in international law that refers to acts of persecution or any large scale atrocities against a body of people, as being the criminal offence above all others.

The Rome Statute Explanatory Memorandum states that crimes against humanity "are particularly odious offences in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. However, murder, extermination, torture, rape, political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice.

perhaps Thaksin's next stop on his current world tour should be The Hague.

[sriracha john]

First of all, I would like to reassure anyone that my name is not Pradit, but I am pleased that I provided him with the idea for his article :

Thaksin 'must be tried for deaths'

Government urged to ratify convention on court

by PRADIT RUANGDIT

The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) and the Lawyers Council of Thailand are pressing the government to ratify the convention on the International Criminal Court so deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra could be tried for crimes against humanity over his controversial anti-drugs campaign. The council and former lawmakers accused the Thaksin administration of having blood on its hands for waging its so-called war on drugs which killed more than 2,000 people. Officials were obeying a Thaksin policy which included a well-organised plan to issue a ''licence to kill'' with approval from Mr Thaksin, the then interior minister Wan Muhamad Nor Matha, and the then interior permanent secretary Sermsak Pongpanich. The Attorney-General's Office should handle the issue should it become a case, as that agency answers to obligations governed by an international court agreement. But first, the government must ratify the convention on the International Criminal Court. Mr Somchai said the Thaksin administration did not bother to ratify the convention. If the present government went ahead with the ratification, it would effectively restrict Mr Thaksin's mobility. The former prime minister, in self-imposed political exile overseas since the coup, has travelled from China to Indonesia on a diplomatic passport he has used since he was in power. ''Signing the convention would prevent Mr Thaksin from popping up here and there, especially in European countries which are signatories to the convention,'' he said.

He said the blacklist of drug suspects took only 15 days to compile. The perceived haste raised concerns that some may have been wrongly targeted. The NHRC received 40 complaints related to the drugs war deaths. Not a single culprit in those cases was ever caught.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/20Nov2006_news01.php

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's ok, Pradit.... none of my posts are copyrighted, so feel free to consult with them further.

[chownah]

How is it that Khun Pradit is privy to such inside information? How does he know of the "well organized plan"?....and why doesn't he give us the details of this "plan" since he seems to know so much about it?

Also, sriracha john seems to have some connection to the inner workings of the Toxin kabal. Please tell us how you get your information which seems to be far beyond any facts that most of us have collected.

Chownah

[Plus]

I don't understand your questions, Chownah. Do you mean you have never heard of the drug war, how it was planned, and how it was conducted? All the information is rather public, including how the drug lists were compiled and what actions should be taken against those on the lists. Quotes from Thaksin have been supplied, both in this forum and the media.

[chownah]

I don't understand your questions, Chownah. Do you mean you have never heard of the drug war, how it was planned, and how it was conducted? All the information is rather public, including how the drug lists were compiled and what actions should be taken against those on the lists. Quotes from Thaksin have been supplied, both in this forum and the media.

I have heard of the war on drugs but have not seen any thing about how it was planned, about lists being compiled or any of the particulars you mention. Where can I find some of this stuff.....I'm surprised I've missed so much.

Chownah

[sriracha john]

Three good places to start the educational process:

http://www.topix.net/topix/advanced-search

http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/advanced?ei=UTF-8

http://news.google.co.th/advanced_news_sea...p;tab=wn&q=

[chownah]

I was hoping for some links to actual information about Toxin's issuance of a license to kill or evidence of the planning......anything that actually and clearly documents the items mentioned in Plus's post or implied by sriracha john's posts.

Chownah

[hammered]

It will be a good day for Thailand if a case like this is actually brought against the organizers of what was a bloody campaign that damaged Thailand's international image. The outcome of the case of course would depend upon the courts, but just to get it to court would be a major coup.

[Plus]

Of course you won't find actual "Licenses to kill" issued for this war, that's why they are put in quotes in the original news article.

Legal case against Thaksin is being built on his policy, its implementation and his reaction. When he knew that thousands of people were killed during the implementation, he didn't stop the war, he instead encouraged it to go on, so they want to hold him ultimately responsible.

I don't know what chances of getting conviction are, even in best courts, forget Thai ones. There are precedents of genocide trials - in Rwanda, for example, they eventually put radio broadcasters on trial for instigating violence, even if they didn't, and couldn't, issue any orders or licenses to kill.

No matter what the result, having Thaksin on trial for human rights violations during the drug war will effectively rule out any chances of his comeback to politics, and even arrest warrants might be issued.

[Diablo Bob]

Thaksin accused of giving the license to kill during war on drugs

BANGKOK: -- Ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his government should be held responsible for the systematic killings of more than 2,500 people during the notorious war on drugs, National Human Rights Commission's chairman Somchai Homla-or said Sunday.

"Thaksin and his government has committed crime against humanity," Somchai said at a seminar.

The seminar focused on the violation of human rights in so many cases that Thaksin-led government labelled as "silence killings", drug traders being silenced by their fellows from the same illicit trade.

However, Somchai Sunday accused Thaksin, former Interior Minister Wan Muhamad Noor Matha and former permanent secretary for Interior Sermsak Pongpanich of virtually issuing the license to kill during the war on drugs three years ago.

"Thaksin often reiterated that drug sellers would have only two choices: death or jail," Somchai added.

-- The Nation 2006-11-19

So based upon this, I take it that the BIB"s were also in the drug trade!

[chownah]

I don't understand your questions, Chownah. Do you mean you have never heard of the drug war, how it was planned, and how it was conducted? All the information is rather public, including how the drug lists were compiled and what actions should be taken against those on the lists. Quotes from Thaksin have been supplied, both in this forum and the media.

Can you get me links to the information that is rather public concerning:

1. How the war on drugs was planned.

2. How the war on drugs was conducted.

3. How the drug lists were compiled.

4. Who or how was it decided which people on the list would have what actions taken against them.

I'd like things that are more than just some people's opinions....I guess people who were involved would be good sources of good credible information, or memos, or tape recordings or video recordings....something more than just the unsupported accusations like the ones in the original post.

Chownah

[h90]

I don't understand your questions, Chownah. Do you mean you have never heard of the drug war, how it was planned, and how it was conducted? All the information is rather public, including how the drug lists were compiled and what actions should be taken against those on the lists. Quotes from Thaksin have been supplied, both in this forum and the media.

Can you get me links to the information that is rather public concerning:

1. How the war on drugs was planned.

2. How the war on drugs was conducted.

3. How the drug lists were compiled.

4. Who or how was it decided which people on the list would have what actions taken against them.

I'd like things that are more than just some people's opinions....I guess people who were involved would be good sources of good credible information, or memos, or tape recordings or video recordings....something more than just the unsupported accusations like the ones in the original post.

Chownah

He himself told he "wipe them out", as well who else should be respondsible if not him. And if he is not respondsible how he did punish the respondsible people, or didn't he????

[younghusband]

I don't understand your questions, Chownah. Do you mean you have never heard of the drug war, how it was planned, and how it was conducted? All the information is rather public, including how the drug lists were compiled and what actions should be taken against those on the lists. Quotes from Thaksin have been supplied, both in this forum and the media.

Can you get me links to the information that is rather public concerning:

1. How the war on drugs was planned.

2. How the war on drugs was conducted.

3. How the drug lists were compiled.

4. Who or how was it decided which people on the list would have what actions taken against them.

I'd like things that are more than just some people's opinions....I guess people who were involved would be good sources of good credible information, or memos, or tape recordings or video recordings....something more than just the unsupported accusations like the ones in the original post.

Chownah

And while you're at it why don't you collect evidence on the holocaust.Surely you aren't satisfied with hearsay evidence and unsuported accusations that 6 million people died? I'm sure you will be able to obtain eye witness accounts, tape and video recordings from the participants, except possibly those who allegedly died in the gas ovens.Perhaps the whole episode represents "just some peoples opinions".

If you're going to participate on a forum like this suggest do your basic homework.It's not very demanding.

[Plus]

Unsupported accusations????

Have you been around in 2003 when it has dominated media and public discussion for months?

Read this, for example

http://hrw.org/reports/2004/thailand0704/thailand0704.pdf

[chownah]

Plus,

thanks for the link but right now I'm not able to get it to open properly...I only get the first page....I'll try later.

Chownah

P.S. Yes, unsupported accusations.....there was no supporting evidence or even any attempt to document where support could be found for the accusations made.....it sounds to me like the OP has some inside track to the inner workings of the Toxin gov't....perhaps the OP has such a source....I really don't know.

Chownah

Edited November 20, 2006 by chownah

[chownah]

I don't understand your questions, Chownah. Do you mean you have never heard of the drug war, how it was planned, and how it was conducted? All the information is rather public, including how the drug lists were compiled and what actions should be taken against those on the lists. Quotes from Thaksin have been supplied, both in this forum and the media.

Can you get me links to the information that is rather public concerning:

1. How the war on drugs was planned.

2. How the war on drugs was conducted.

3. How the drug lists were compiled.

4. Who or how was it decided which people on the list would have what actions taken against them.

I'd like things that are more than just some people's opinions....I guess people who were involved would be good sources of good credible information, or memos, or tape recordings or video recordings....something more than just the unsupported accusations like the ones in the original post.

Chownah

And while you're at it why don't you collect evidence on the holocaust.Surely you aren't satisfied with hearsay evidence and unsuported accusations that 6 million people died? I'm sure you will be able to obtain eye witness accounts, tape and video recordings from the participants, except possibly those who allegedly died in the gas ovens.Perhaps the whole episode represents "just some peoples opinions".

If you're going to participate on a forum like this suggest do your basic homework.It's not very demanding.

There is an abundance of evidence to support the existence of the holocaust....physical evidence and testimony of people involved........but I'm not concerned about documenting the holocaust...I would like to get some evidence to support the things that have been alleged in this thread. I've made a list up of things that it was claimed were freely available in the public domain and I'm just asking where to look in the public domain to find the facts....I'm doing my homework right here in the forum. If you have a problem with me asking for a place where I can learn about what happened then I suggest you just ignore my posts......a lot of people ignore my posts and this suits both me and them just fine.......

Chownah

[lukamar]

Can you get me links to the information that is rather public concerning:

1. How the war on drugs was planned.

2. How the war on drugs was conducted.

3. How the drug lists were compiled.

4. Who or how was it decided which people on the list would have what actions taken against them.

I'd like things that are more than just some people's opinions....I guess people who were involved would be good sources of good credible information, or memos, or tape recordings or video recordings....something more than just the unsupported accusations like the ones in the original post.

Chownah

They can't give you those links because they don't exist. People that were/are involved are not going to say anything to anyone for fear of reprisals.

Thaksin may have asked for a list of suspected drug dealers, he may also have asked for a list of TRT members or a list of the appliances in his new house. Just because you ask for a list of something does not mean you are responsible for everything on the list, as some here would hope. He probably was but i did not meet a single person in the north that thought the drug war was wrong when i was there during that time, on their contrary they supported it. Drug, alcohol and gun smuggling and the violence that comes with it has been ingrained as part of the history of the North, nothing new went on to the people there.

[sriracha john]

Three good places to start the educational process:

http://www.topix.net/topix/advanced-search

http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/advanced?ei=UTF-8

http://news.google.co.th/advanced_news_sea...p;tab=wn&q=

I don't understand your questions, Chownah. Do you mean you have never heard of the drug war, how it was planned, and how it was conducted? All the information is rather public, including how the drug lists were compiled and what actions should be taken against those on the lists. Quotes from Thaksin have been supplied, both in this forum and the media.

Can you get me links to the information that is rather public concerning:

1. How the war on drugs was planned.

2. How the war on drugs was conducted.

3. How the drug lists were compiled.

4. Who or how was it decided which people on the list would have what actions taken against them.

I'd like things that are more than just some people's opinions....I guess people who were involved would be good sources of good credible information, or memos, or tape recordings or video recordings....something more than just the unsupported accusations like the ones in the original post.

Chownah

And while you're at it why don't you collect evidence on the holocaust.Surely you aren't satisfied with hearsay evidence and unsuported accusations that 6 million people died? I'm sure you will be able to obtain eye witness accounts, tape and video recordings from the participants, except possibly those who allegedly died in the gas ovens.Perhaps the whole episode represents "just some peoples opinions".

If you're going to participate on a forum like this suggest do your basic homework.It's not very demanding.

There is an abundance of evidence to support the existence of the holocaust....physical evidence and testimony of people involved........but I'm not concerned about documenting the holocaust...I would like to get some evidence to support the things that have been alleged in this thread. I've made a list up of things that it was claimed were freely available in the public domain and I'm just asking where to look in the public domain to find the facts....I'm doing my homework right here in the forum. If you have a problem with me asking for a place where I can learn about what happened then I suggest you just ignore my posts......a lot of people ignore my posts and this suits both me and them just fine.......

Chownah

If you plug your questions 1. through 4. into the websites provided above, you'll have your answer.

There IS physical evidence AND testimony regarding the Drug War. They ARE freely available on the public domain.

[younghusband]

Plus,

thanks for the link but right now I'm not able to get it to open properly...I only get the first page....I'll try later.

Chownah

P.S. Yes, unsupported accusations.....there was no supporting evidence or even any attempt to document where support could be found for the accusations made.....it sounds to me like the OP has some inside track to the inner workings of the Toxin gov't....perhaps the OP has such a source....I really don't know.

Chownah

Look, one of the points of this forum is to help people out.I don't think the more experienced in this country assume a lot of prior knowledge in others, and are generous in their time in providing information when requested.Your questions would be be reasonable for a newcomer but for heavens sake you have over 4,000 posts and yet you remain bafflingly ignorant of one of the most notorious human rights abuses of recent times.The evidence you seek is a matter of public record and frankly anyone who read the English language newspapers would be reasonably well informed.With respect I suggest you might consider cutting down on your posts and start reading say the Nation.

My holocaust example was only partly in jest.I'm not suggesting there is any malice in your behaviour though it is quite puzzling.But this as Goebbels could have told us,this is how to propagate the big lie.First cast doubt on the circumstances -"where are the witneses etc" - and then over time deny it ever happened.

[Grover]

Its good to see action is being taken to settle this ugly chapter in Thai history.

Thaksin made quite a lot of mistakes, but this was his biggest by far. For what? Votes? Respect? Fear? "Clean-up"?

At the very least, mud will stick.

[lukamar]

At the very least, mud will stick.

It's smoke and mirrors. The new government's popularity is waining and they are just deflecting the flack. All that is happening in Thailand has little to do with Thaksin and everything to do with the way the new government wants themselves to be portrayed, otherwise why would they have to setup their own PR agency?

[Briggsy]

Name one person who has been arrested, never mind incarcerated, in connection with these 2500++ deaths.

In 6 months from now, the same question will produce the same answer.

Nobody.

[Grover]

At the very least, mud will stick.

It's smoke and mirrors. The new government's popularity is waining and they are just deflecting the flack. All that is happening in Thailand has little to do with Thaksin and everything to do with the way the new government wants themselves to be portrayed, otherwise why would they have to setup their own PR agency?

you might be smoke and mirrors. Perhaps you are right, you have established a reasonable sounding motive. Nevertheless, deflecting flac or not, if it is true, Thaksin is in big trouble, even if they can't nail him beyond doubt.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Grover

[Jai Dee]

Probe urged on Thaksin's Thai anti-drug efforts

Human rights campaigners in Thailand are claiming that the ousted prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, ordered the deaths of more than 2,000 drug dealers during his time in office and should face trial for crimes against humanity.

Our South East Asia correspondent Karen Percy reports that lawyers from the Council of Thailand and the National Human Rights Commission say there is evidence that Mr Thaksin issued a "licence to kill" to officials involved in two heavy-handed anti-drugs campaigns during early 2003, and again in 2005.

The groups say that the former prime minister should be tried for crimes against humanity and want the new government to thoroughly investigate the killings.

Thailand's top human rights activist, Somchai Homla-aor, has told a seminar that Mr Thaksin's tough measures triggered the charges from the human rights groups.

"This is a crime against humanity," he said.

Thai police and security officers were previously accused of murdering suspected drug dealers, but the Thaksin government defended the killings, saying security forces were acting in self defence.

Former senator Kraisak Choonhavan also backed the call to investige the activities.

"The post-coup government repeatedly vowed to carry out political reform, and if the government fails to investigate the extrajudicial killings it means that the government is not fulfilling what it says".

The interim government is also being urged to sign on to the International Criminal Court convention in order to bring Mr Thaksin and other former ministers to justice.

The military ousted Mr Thaksin in a bloodless coup in September.

Source: Radio Australia - 20 November 2006

[sonnyJ]

Thaksin accused of giving the license to kill during war on drugs

BANGKOK: -- Ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and his government should be held responsible for the systematic killings of more than 2,500 people during the notorious war on drugs, National Human Rights Commission's chairman Somchai Homla-or said Sunday.

"Thaksin and his government has committed crime against humanity," Somchai said at a seminar.

The seminar focused on the violation of human rights in so many cases that Thaksin-led government labelled as "silence killings", drug traders being silenced by their fellows from the same illicit trade.

However, Somchai Sunday accused Thaksin, former Interior Minister Wan Muhamad Noor Matha and former permanent secretary for Interior Sermsak Pongpanich of virtually issuing the license to kill during the war on drugs three years ago.

"Thaksin often reiterated that drug sellers would have only two choices: death or jail," Somchai added.

-- The Nation 2006-11-19

So based upon this, I take it that the BIB"s were also in the drug trade!

Hhhsssss

[Ta22]

A crime against humanity is a term in international law that refers to acts of persecution or any large scale atrocities against a body of people, as being the criminal offence above all others.

The Rome Statute Explanatory Memorandum states that crimes against humanity "are particularly odious offences in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. However, murder, extermination, torture, rape, political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice.

can't help to noitce thi .. and

seem like what Amercia BUSH is doing in the middle east .. is far worst then Taksin .

i am not speaking for anyone . or supporting anyone ..

but hey look .Thailand had less drug dealer .. after the killing in thailand ..

but look at Iraq .. There is more Death , rape , and murder . now in Middle 100 time more before BUSH Went in ..

Taksin would be happy that BUSH will be hangjing beside him .. if CRIME aginst HUmanity is what the world is Up to .

[sonnyJ]

There's always three options.

Death, jail or rock n' roll.

[ando]

Hey you guys. Thaksin is gone. Get over it. Now we have a more responsible government in place the drug problem will be solved. Trust me. No more corruption. The whole problem can be sorted out within the legal framework of martial law.