Thailand’s overall situation has improved: Govt spokesman

[elgordo38]

Would anyone really like to go back to before the Military took over the country? By the amount of arms and explosives confiscated from the population it would appear that an all out civil war was averted.

Name me one perfect government, please!

Some personal freedoms have been suspended while order has been restored.

At the same time, a massive clean up of civil-servant corruption and crime has been instituted by this government.

Generations of corrupt officials and organized crime can not be disposed of over-night.

If you have some constructive ideas of how to improve Thailand, for Thais, then please do illuminate us.

Dear Golden Rod(I think this is a weed we had when I was young)

I will not live long enough to see any meaningful cleanup as you attest to. My g/f just tells me that one in four graduates cannot find a job and we seem to be falling under the benevolent leader umbrella that covers a lot of Asia. I guess a country full of docile subjects is preferred to civil war but then some things always have to be fought for thus the emergence of unions.

Edited July 27, 2016 by elgordo38

[ClutchClark]

I have read a bit about the past Juntas but I was not around to experience the before & after.

This time ai have been and I see a positive change.

Most of the TVF community complains about everything like they are suffering hangovers so I tend not to listen to much to their opinions.

What have the Thai people told you about their opinions?

I heard some beach unpmbrella touts are not real happy with the whole thing.

What positive changes have you seen, apart from cleaner beaches, because as sure as there's shit in a dog, you can't see what lies beneath the surface.

Most of the TVF community have heard the same bullshit being told over and over an over (19 times now) over and over again, NOTHING changes, the common denominator in all the political strife this country has seen since the 1930's is the Army, they can't stop interfering.

as for what Thai people tell you, most wont tell people they don't know anything, there's some posters here who would take great pleasure in "dobbing" people in, to enhance their own status within the Kingdom.

it's what the people are NOT saying that's the worrying factor.

But it's also quite obvious that your posts are designed to actually be inflammatory in nature and to provoke reactions.

You are out of line or just suffer poor reading comprehension if you see snything inflammatory in my above posts.

So you are saying that because the Thai people are not saying they are upset with the Junta is the very reason we should find fault or "worry" about the Junta?

The average TVF poster has now experienced this 19 times now? Amazing.

Out of curiousity, are you a Thai citizen? I can only relate this to my own experience as an American citizen but I don't think I could give an ounce of credibility to a non-US citizen's criticisms of my own country.

I see an improvement in Thailand. I see positive change.

But then I don't see the world through the bottom of a beer bottle either.

"... I don't think I could give an ounce of credibility to a non-US citizen's criticisms of my own country."

Well, that explains a lot.

I am glad that was helpful to you.

Do you not agree that the future of Thailand should be left to Thai people to determine ?

What country are you from? I didn't realize there was a country snywhere that did not prefer self-determination over the opinion of a tourist.

Edited July 27, 2016 by ClutchClark

[Holy Cinema]

and you have the gall to say I'm out of line? seriously? I don't drink, more or less tee total, in 2 years I can count the beers I've had with both hands, all my own choice, no illness or past discrepancies, it just doesn't hold any appeal to me any more.

So look at yourself when you say people are out of line.

Most of the TVF community complains about everything like they are suffering hangovers so I tend not to listen to much to their opinions.

so in other words you think the majority who post here are bevvy merchants.... very disingenuous for starters, but hey, you're not out of line huh?

The average TVF poster has now experienced this 19 times now? Amazing.

Reading comprehension and being Pedantic, there's actually members here who have been through 5-6 coups now, each one promising the same things, till the next coup. They know that it's the same old same old, and the Thai "same same but different" attitude, and of course, that along with "The West don't understand our situation, it's unique" get real, the West fully understand that you want your train set for life!!

You have been asked several times what differences have been noticed in your time here, and have not answered, but keep repeating Ad nauseam the same things the other resident Kool aid drinkers have, and been called to account over too.

Out of curiousity, are you a Thai citizen? I can only relate this to my own experience as an American citizen but I don't think I could give an ounce of credibility to a non-US citizen's criticisms of my own country.

In other words you know better, and can't be wrong? I have many good solid American brothers, and they're disgusted at what's going on in their own country, and your POTUS !!! They also live in Thailand.

What difference does it make to you what Nationality I am? It's all your previous posts singing the Junta's praises, but you're conspicuously absent, along with a lot of your sycophant buddies in threads that are damning them. You've seen difference for the better, that's awesome, I'm seeing difference going the opposite direction and I'm not alone, we're allowed to discuss this, you think the Thais whose lives this actually matters to, are afforded the same latitude?
My daughters future all depends on how this Junta takes their next steps.

You have Meechai now giving out about if the draft is rejected it's inviting trouble, he's inciting it, he's breaking his own Law!!

I see an improvement in Thailand. I see positive change.

In what sense? Corruption? still there, and lots still to be unearthed ad come to the surface too. Crime? Still there, if you have money, you can still kill people in your car, pay a few merits, Wai to the family, enter the monkhood for a time, and life goes on. Human Trafficking? still there

I see people that are being cajolled and intimadated for having a difference of opinion, I'm seeing people who have fallen foul of their masters locked up under article 112, and then "fall ill and die", I'm seeing a systematic purge using new laws to do everything to eliminate the political opposition, I'm seeing more an more paranoid actions from the Junta, and more threats of do as I say, not do as I do.

It's a shame, Prayuth had the chance to unite the country, I believed in the anti corruption protests, I believed that the Shin Regime should have been replaced......by the majority of the people, not by a select few. I'm seeing snouts in the trough that are as far from transparent and have zero checks and balances, have no accountability have given themselves amnesties, the very thing that brought the people out on the streets in the first place, the Junta COULD have reconciled the country, but they're interested in destroying by any means necessary those who can stand against them. Why are they so afraid of peoples opinions and beliefs?

Happy you're seeing changes for the good, all I'm seeing is the same shenanigans the PTP were getting up to now being carried out by this crowd, where there's NO mechanism in place to remove them!!

[ClutchClark]

@HolyCinema post #63.

The TV quote function is not working well for me.

You are wrong in seversl of your assumptions about me but that is not important.

As for the sorry politicsl condition of the US under this administration (and the last) I would agree with your American friends.

At the same time, and try not to take this personal, but I could reslly care a less your opinion about my Country if you are not a citizen there.

In the same manner, I leave Thailand to the People and Authorities of Thailand to govern and determine the direction of their own future.

Since I am pretty sure you are going to lambast any and every comment ai make about my personal experience as a visitor here I am not going to waste more time on the subject. You are obviously far more involved in this topic than I am and have a deeper understsnding of it than I do.

I would only say that Change takes time. It takes alot more than 2 years.

I would only encourage you to try and relax a little. You have zero control with the outcome of these events.

Edited July 27, 2016 by ClutchClark

[MZurf]

What positive changes have you seen, apart from cleaner beaches, because as sure as there's shit in a dog, you can't see what lies beneath the surface.

Most of the TVF community have heard the same bullshit being told over and over an over (19 times now) over and over again, NOTHING changes, the common denominator in all the political strife this country has seen since the 1930's is the Army, they can't stop interfering.

as for what Thai people tell you, most wont tell people they don't know anything, there's some posters here who would take great pleasure in "dobbing" people in, to enhance their own status within the Kingdom.

it's what the people are NOT saying that's the worrying factor.

But it's also quite obvious that your posts are designed to actually be inflammatory in nature and to provoke reactions.

You are out of line or just suffer poor reading comprehension if you see snything inflammatory in my above posts.

So you are saying that because the Thai people are not saying they are upset with the Junta is the very reason we should find fault or "worry" about the Junta?

The average TVF poster has now experienced this 19 times now? Amazing.

Out of curiousity, are you a Thai citizen? I can only relate this to my own experience as an American citizen but I don't think I could give an ounce of credibility to a non-US citizen's criticisms of my own country.

I see an improvement in Thailand. I see positive change.

But then I don't see the world through the bottom of a beer bottle either.

"... I don't think I could give an ounce of credibility to a non-US citizen's criticisms of my own country."

Well, that explains a lot.

I am glad that was helpful to you.

Do you not agree that the future of Thailand should be left to Thai people to determine ?

What country are you from? I didn't realize there was a country snywhere that did not prefer self-determination over the opinion of a tourist.

"Do you not agree that the future of Thailand should be left to Thai people to determine ?"

Yes, I do. Have I said otherwise? The future of Thailand definitively should be left to the Thai people to determine, not a bunch of dinosaurs in Bangkok.

" I didn't realize there was a country snywhere that did not prefer self-determination over the opinion of a tourist."

Huh? That didn't make sense at all, but then I don't see the world through the bottom of a beer bottle either.

Edited July 27, 2016 by MZurf

[Holy Cinema]

ClutchClark, same same reference the quotes thingy.

[ClutchClark]

@MZurf post #65.

I don't do strawman arguments by puting words in other posters mouths. Thst is why I asked IF you agree. I am glad to hear that you do agree that the futire of Thailand should be left to the Thai to determine.

It appears that even though you feel this way it doesn't stop you from holding and voicing a very strong opinion on how thst future of Thailand is being determined.

Listen gents, you guys are obviously alot more emotionally invested in this entire subject than I am and have a much better idea of the details.

I like the changes I have seen on my visits here. But I live in the US and we have enough of our own problems in the US these days so I will leave it to the Thai Authorities to sort this out. From the reading I have done, it looks like this country gets run into the ground by its corrupt political leadership as much as is happening in the US.

[MZurf]

I said "I have read about the past Juntas" and you tell me thats hy we have history books.

Should I have capitslized "read" for your benefit?

You are puting words in my mouth when you suggest ai ignore people who don't agree with me. What I said was that I tend not to give much importance or energy to people who are always negative in their viewpoint. Are you one of those chronic complainers?

I also have a Thai wife. The discussion of the ajunta has come up and she has conveyed to me the feelings of her various fsmily members. There are a few levels of discussion--the personal "micro" effect the coup hashad on the individual and also the "macro" effect it has had for the Country as a whole. Not surprisingly, those whose business interests have been hurt are not very happy and not willing to concede any positive outcome. Those fsmily that are invested in the condo market are very happy with the stability the Junta has had on buyer's who are looking for a safe investment.

Do you have any specifics you can contribute or are you just going to be a generic naysayer without any details?

Tell you what... Grab a few more aspirin, splash some water on your face, brush your teeth, grab a cup of coffee and come on back when you are of good cheer.

" I said "I have read about the past Juntas" and you tell me thats hy we have history books. Should I have capitslized "read" for your benefit?"

So you have read about the previous juntas but failed to grasp that they did nothing good for Thailand??

"Those fsmily that are invested in the condo market are very happy with the stability the Junta has had on buyer's who are looking for a safe investment."

Really?? I thought the condo market had stagnated. Dear me!

"Do you have any specifics you can contribute or are you just going to be a generic naysayer without any details?"

Specifics about what??

[ClutchClark]

MZurf,

Chill. Relax.

Its a nice day.

Find a nice hobby that makes you happy.

Life is too short for me to waste on guys like you just looking for fights.

[Holy Cinema]

@MZurf post #65.

I don't do strawman arguments by puting words in other posters mouths. Thst is why I asked IF you agree. I am glad to hear that you do agree that the futire of Thailand should be left to the Thai to determine.

It appears that even though you feel this way it doesn't stop you from holding and voicing a very strong opinion on how thst future of Thailand is being determined.

Listen gents, you guys are obviously alot more emotionally invested in this entire subject than I am and have a much better idea of the details.

I like the changes I have seen on my visits here. But I live in the US and we have enough of our own problems in the US these days so I will leave it to the Thai Authorities to sort this out. From the reading I have done, it looks like this country gets run into the ground by its corrupt political leadership as much as is happening in the US.

Maybe because some of us live here and spend more time here than simple visits?

You were not shy in saying how the country should be run either, and that the Junta were the people to do that, so other people with different POV's have less on an opinion than your good self?

The future of the country should be decided by the country, that means every person of voting age should have their say, with 92.8% popularity, what's to be afraid of? Except that the future of the country is being held to ransom by a very small group of very powerful individuals.

[Holy Cinema]

MZurf,

Chill. Relax.

Its a nice day.

Find a nice hobby that makes you happy.

Life is too short for me to waste on guys like you just looking for fights.

Perhaps if you laid out all the things you've seen improve, then maybe people won't be "looking for a fight" ?

So far you've pretty much evaded any answers, instead have dropped to an extremely condescending tone.

[ClutchClark]

#70

I said I have seen positive improvement since the Junta.

Example: the rice scheme of a few years ago.

I support the Junta's efforts to make Thailand a better place.

I hope the best for Thailand and for the Thai people.

For those farang who chose to move to a country they are not from and which has its oen unique culture and politics, I can only say it must be difficult and stressful trying to adapt at times.

Good luck adapting.

I am going to go enjoy my day.

[Holy Cinema]

#70

I said I have seen positive improvement since the Junta.

Example: the rice scheme of a few years ago.

I support the Junta's efforts to make Thailand a better place.

I hope the best for Thailand and for the Thai people.

For those farang who chose to move to a country they are not from and which has its oen unique culture and politics, I can only say it must be difficult and stressful trying to adapt at times.

Good luck adapting.

I am going to go enjoy my day.

If that's the crux of your whole junta hugs, then you really need to do a LOT more research, and a LOT more reading of banned material to know that EVERYTHING right now is about delay delay delay, and why the Junta need to remain in power till after a particular date.

Your comments about moving away and being difficult and stressful at times are really nothing short of derogatory, speak for yourself, I've found the pace and the lifestyle here 150% better than it ever was in my home country, even my place of work is less stressful than my home country.

What gripes me is people, such as yourself, who love to wave their banners about the Land of the free, and home of the brave, and how they love their ability to chose who runs their home country and who doesn't like nor respect others peoples views of their said country, suddenly think that an Oppressive Military rule is the way forward, where civil liberties are kicked into touch, where pressing "like" on a face book page can get you 10 years in Prison, tried by a military court.

[ClutchClark]

@Cinema

And I am quite aware of the need for them to remain in power for a specific date and I think that is a very good decision.

I am glad that you are so much more relaxed here than back home. I am sure your loved ones are as well.

I don't have any banners so you must be confusing me for someone else. I do realize that other countries are not the US and have their own unique issues and histories and I allow them the respect to sort out their issues themselves without my interference or suggesting I have better answers for them than they do. Democracy is not a one size fits all and sometimes it does not fit at all. Sometimes democracy becomes nothing more than a slogan to incite patriotism while the country is actually run by special interests or a few families.

BTW, did you see the rice scheme as a good thing for Thailand?

[Gecko123]

Improvements under the current government:

1. Reimbursing the rice farmers for the monies promised under the prior government's 'rice scheme'
2. Drilling of municipal wells and other irrigation infrastructure
3. Improvements in highways and roads
4. Crackdown on crime, and more accountability of the police (incl. immigration)
5. Crackdown on corruption in the government and police
6. Crackdown on immigration abuses (weeding out foreign criminal elements and overstayers)
7. Efforts to crackdown on human trafficking and prostitution
8. Efforts to reduce pedestrian congestion by prohibiting street vendors in some areas
9. Encouragement of environmental awareness (global warming, anti-littering efforts, plastic bag reduction campaigns, crackdown on illegal logging, organic farming)
10. Introduction of GPS tracking systems on public transport vehicles
11. Encouragement of "family values" and social cohesion. (yes, it's a little too paternalistic for me as well)
12. Efforts to encourage Thais to take pride in their country and to build awareness of their image internationally

Disappointments:

1. Failure to focus on the need to overhaul Thailand's failed educational system, especially in rural areas. So many of Thailand's social problems can be traced back to this problem.
2. Failure to crack down on traffic moving violations (speeding, reckless driving, drunk driving, driving under the influence, driving without a license, no helmet, seatbelt usage, vehicles which are poorly maintained, etc.) Thailand needs to get serious about its road safety; the road carnage has a huge economic and social cost.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Gecko123

[ClutchClark]

Rice scheme damages total 549,000,000,000 THB. (Thsts billion--did I use the correct number of zeros?)

Were things as good before the Junta as some people want to remember?

[heybruce]

Would anyone really like to go back to before the Military took over the country? By the amount of arms and explosives confiscated from the population it would appear that an all out civil war was averted.

Name me one perfect government, please!

Some personal freedoms have been suspended while order has been restored.

At the same time, a massive clean up of civil-servant corruption and crime has been instituted by this government.

Generations of corrupt officials and organized crime can not be disposed of over-night.

If you have some constructive ideas of how to improve Thailand, for Thais, then please do illuminate us.

"Would anyone really like to go back to before the Military took over the country?"

Yes, as soon as possible.

"By the amount of arms and explosives confiscated from the population it would appear that an all out civil war was averted."

I assume you mean the military hardware found suspiciously quickly by the military and used to justify the coup. As far as the old "civil war" argument, the protests were fading and life was returning to normal in Bangkok. Life never deviated much from normal outside of Bangkok. The coup was hold to prevent elections.

"Name me one perfect government, please!"

Seriously? Name one perfect anything.

Regarding your nonsense on cleaning up corruption, why not read about the corrupt military you put so much faith in: http://government.defenceindex.org/countries/thailand/

Take note of this section:

"While there are wide-ranging examples of Thai military units or individuals involved or complicit on organised crime, there is no concrete evidence to suggest that the government or the military see this connection as a serious problem or working actively to alleviate it. There is extensive evidence of the military's involvement in criminal networks associated with narcotics, prostitution, human trafficking, and illegal casinos."

[heybruce]

Would anyone really like to go back to before the Military took over the country? By the amount of arms and explosives confiscated from the population it would appear that an all out civil war was averted.

Name me one perfect government, please!

Some personal freedoms have been suspended while order has been restored.

At the same time, a massive clean up of civil-servant corruption and crime has been instituted by this government.

Generations of corrupt officials and organized crime can not be disposed of over-night.

If you have some constructive ideas of how to improve Thailand, for Thais, then please do illuminate us.

Agreed.

I sure like the Thailand of today more than the one I visited 5-6 years ago.

I would hate to see where the country would be today if not for the Junta.

What parts of Thailand are you visiting?

[heybruce]

Everything is wonderful, economy booming, all the people are extremely Happy.

So now the military government can step aside and hand over to a freely elected civilian government.

Just like the government spokesman, I can talk crap also.

Until the reforms can be made permanent, the military government should remain.

Is that a joke? If you are serious, please tell us what these reforms are. You would be the first.

[Holy Cinema]

@Cinema

And I am quite aware of the need for them to remain in power for a specific date and I think that is a very good decision.

I am glad that you are so much more relaxed here than back home. I am sure your loved ones are as well.

I don't have any banners so you must be confusing me for someone else. I do realize that other countries are not the US and have their own unique issues and histories and I allow them the respect to sort out their issues themselves without my interference or suggesting I have better answers for them than they do. Democracy is not a one size fits all and sometimes it does not fit at all. Sometimes democracy becomes nothing more than a slogan to incite patriotism while the country is actually run by special interests or a few families.

BTW, did you see the rice scheme as a good thing for Thailand?

What do you think is currently happening under the Junta?

As for the rice scheme, the good intentions were there, it was badly run, and badly managed, the price promise was stupidity of the highest order, don't forget, Abhisit also ran a similar one, at a loss, but it was classed as a subsidiary, where losses are expected, if not the norm. However, lets just clear up a huge myth here, that scheme wasn't designed for the average country side rice farmer, to enter and qualify for that scheme, you had to meet a certain criteria, farmers with significant amounts of Rai seen how they could reap the benefits, same with land owners renting out their land for Paddy, the scheme was selective with regards to whom could join.

People seem to think when they hear the word rice farmers, it's the whole lot, no it wasn't, not by a long shot.

You keep referring to the rice scheme, which just happens to be in the news today, yet still didn't provide a list of all the improvements, that list came from another poster, and can't disagree with a lot of what's on it.

[heybruce]

Voting?

I stopped voting in my country's elections because it is useless, for the reasons mentioned earlier.

Which means you became apathetic, and no longer cared what other people said or done, and you would just go along with it.....in other words you were a sheeple, a follower, and still are to this day.

I actually have some sympathy for what he is saying... After all you don't go into a shop and buy things you don't want, do you? What are you supposed to do if you don't like any of the candidates, unless there is a 'None of the above' option?

The choices are never perfect. If you care about your country you make the effort to inform yourself then you choose the best, or least bad, option.

[MZurf]

@Cinema

And I am quite aware of the need for them to remain in power for a specific date and I think that is a very good decision.

I am glad that you are so much more relaxed here than back home. I am sure your loved ones are as well.

I don't have any banners so you must be confusing me for someone else. I do realize that other countries are not the US and have their own unique issues and histories and I allow them the respect to sort out their issues themselves without my interference or suggesting I have better answers for them than they do. Democracy is not a one size fits all and sometimes it does not fit at all. Sometimes democracy becomes nothing more than a slogan to incite patriotism while the country is actually run by special interests or a few families.

BTW, did you see the rice scheme as a good thing for Thailand?

"Sometimes democracy becomes nothing more than a slogan to incite patriotism while the country is actually run by special interests or a few families."

And that's not the case now???? 555555555555!

[heybruce]

Agreed.

I sure like the Thailand of today more than the one I visited 5-6 years ago.

I would hate to see where the country would be today if not for the Junta.

I have read a bit about the past Juntas but I was not around to experience the before & after.

This time ai have been and I see a positive change.

Most of the TVF community complains about everything like they are suffering hangovers so I tend not to listen to much to their opinions.

What have the Thai people told you about their opinions?

I heard some beach unpmbrella touts are not real happy with the whole thing.

What positive changes have you seen, apart from cleaner beaches, because as sure as there's shit in a dog, you can't see what lies beneath the surface.

Most of the TVF community have heard the same bullshit being told over and over an over (19 times now) over and over again, NOTHING changes, the common denominator in all the political strife this country has seen since the 1930's is the Army, they can't stop interfering.

as for what Thai people tell you, most wont tell people they don't know anything, there's some posters here who would take great pleasure in "dobbing" people in, to enhance their own status within the Kingdom.

it's what the people are NOT saying that's the worrying factor.

But it's also quite obvious that your posts are designed to actually be inflammatory in nature and to provoke reactions.

You are out of line or just suffer poor reading comprehension if you see snything inflammatory in my above posts.

So you are saying that because the Thai people are not saying they are upset with the Junta is the very reason we should find fault or "worry" about the Junta?

The average TVF poster has now experienced this 19 times now? Amazing.

Out of curiousity, are you a Thai citizen? I can only relate this to my own experience as an American citizen but I don't think I could give an ounce of credibility to a non-US citizen's criticisms of my own country.

I see an improvement in Thailand. I see positive change.

But then I don't see the world through the bottom of a beer bottle either.

"I see an improvement in Thailand. I see positive change."

Please be specific about these improvements. I see a bad economy and people who only talk about their government in whispers to trusted friends.

[MZurf]

I have read a bit about the past Juntas but I was not around to experience the before & after.

This time ai have been and I see a positive change.

Most of the TVF community complains about everything like they are suffering hangovers so I tend not to listen to much to their opinions.

What have the Thai people told you about their opinions?

I heard some beach unpmbrella touts are not real happy with the whole thing.

What positive changes have you seen, apart from cleaner beaches, because as sure as there's shit in a dog, you can't see what lies beneath the surface.

Most of the TVF community have heard the same bullshit being told over and over an over (19 times now) over and over again, NOTHING changes, the common denominator in all the political strife this country has seen since the 1930's is the Army, they can't stop interfering.

as for what Thai people tell you, most wont tell people they don't know anything, there's some posters here who would take great pleasure in "dobbing" people in, to enhance their own status within the Kingdom.

it's what the people are NOT saying that's the worrying factor.

But it's also quite obvious that your posts are designed to actually be inflammatory in nature and to provoke reactions.

You are out of line or just suffer poor reading comprehension if you see snything inflammatory in my above posts.

So you are saying that because the Thai people are not saying they are upset with the Junta is the very reason we should find fault or "worry" about the Junta?

The average TVF poster has now experienced this 19 times now? Amazing.

Out of curiousity, are you a Thai citizen? I can only relate this to my own experience as an American citizen but I don't think I could give an ounce of credibility to a non-US citizen's criticisms of my own country.

I see an improvement in Thailand. I see positive change.

But then I don't see the world through the bottom of a beer bottle either.

"I see an improvement in Thailand. I see positive change."

Please be specific about these improvements. I see a bad economy and people who only talk about their government in whispers to trusted friends.

I asked the same question some time ago - no answer.

Hey ClutchClark, let me help you with a couple of items on your list of glorious junta achievements;

-State lottery

-Beach chairs in Pukhet (although many tourists complain there are no chairs).

-Some bicycle lanes, somewhere.

-..........uh

[heybruce]

@MZurf post #65.

I don't do strawman arguments by puting words in other posters mouths. Thst is why I asked IF you agree. I am glad to hear that you do agree that the futire of Thailand should be left to the Thai to determine.

It appears that even though you feel this way it doesn't stop you from holding and voicing a very strong opinion on how thst future of Thailand is being determined.

Listen gents, you guys are obviously alot more emotionally invested in this entire subject than I am and have a much better idea of the details.

I like the changes I have seen on my visits here. But I live in the US and we have enough of our own problems in the US these days so I will leave it to the Thai Authorities to sort this out. From the reading I have done, it looks like this country gets run into the ground by its corrupt political leadership as much as is happening in the US.

Instead of commenting on a subject you clearly know little about, why not read a little about the current situation on Thailand? The current issue of the Economist has two excellent articles on the current state of the country and explains why continued military rule will lead to ruin. I can't provide direct links to the articles, but you should have no trouble finding them. http://www.economist.com/printedition/2016-07-23

[Holy Cinema]

Tell you what I have noticed from the before and after in the major cities, people seem more withdrawn and subdued, and constantly worrying about saying or doing the wrong thing when the authorities are about.

Out in the sticks, here in Isaan, you can't tell the difference, it's like groundhog day, and Brigadoon all rolled into one, people either like you or they don't. ( they love you when they want to borrow money from you, and talk shit about you and your family when you don't give them it!!)

I see industrial developments ongoing,and I see roads improving, I also seen these projects starting under the previous tenants.

The Thai people deserve better than to be given ultimatums all the time, the Junta did the same thing the last time after a previous coup, accept the charter of our choice or else we stay in control. Pretty much what's going on now, except that no matter what this time, the Army will remain in control for the next 20 odd years, not much different from the 1930's really, but this time more overtly as opposed to covertly.

Bad Governments can be voted out, a Bad Military cant!! therein lies the biggest problem for Thailand.

[ClutchClark]

@Cinema

And I am quite aware of the need for them to remain in power for a specific date and I think that is a very good decision.

I am glad that you are so much more relaxed here than back home. I am sure your loved ones are as well.

I don't have any banners so you must be confusing me for someone else. I do realize that other countries are not the US and have their own unique issues and histories and I allow them the respect to sort out their issues themselves without my interference or suggesting I have better answers for them than they do. Democracy is not a one size fits all and sometimes it does not fit at all. Sometimes democracy becomes nothing more than a slogan to incite patriotism while the country is actually run by special interests or a few families.

BTW, did you see the rice scheme as a good thing for Thailand?

What do you think is currently happening under the Junta?

As for the rice scheme, the good intentions were there, it was badly run, and badly managed, the price promise was stupidity of the highest order, don't forget, Abhisit also ran a similar one, at a loss, but it was classed as a subsidiary, where losses are expected, if not the norm. However, lets just clear up a huge myth here, that scheme wasn't designed for the average country side rice farmer, to enter and qualify for that scheme, you had to meet a certain criteria, farmers with significant amounts of Rai seen how they could reap the benefits, same with land owners renting out their land for Paddy, the scheme was selective with regards to whom could join.

People seem to think when they hear the word rice farmers, it's the whole lot, no it wasn't, not by a long shot.

You keep referring to the rice scheme, which just happens to be in the news today, yet still didn't provide a list of all the improvements, that list came from another poster, and can't disagree with a lot of what's on it.

So I don't see anywhere in your synopsis that the rice scheme was a way to win votes and make certain politicians and their cronies quite rich. An expensive and excellent example of a democracy that was not functioning as intended.

I do not understand your last sentence. Are you saying that the you "can't" disagree with alot of what is on the list of improvements which have occured under the Junta which came from another poster ? If you can't disagree with those points made then why have you spent all afternoon busting my balls?

Good god man.

Edited July 27, 2016 by ClutchClark

[heybruce]

Improvements under the current government:

1. Reimbursing the rice farmers for the monies promised under the prior government's 'rice scheme'
2. Drilling of municipal wells and other irrigation infrastructure
3. Improvements in highways and roads
4. Crackdown on crime, and more accountability of the police (incl. immigration)
5. Crackdown on corruption in the government and police
6. Crackdown on immigration abuses (weeding out foreign criminal elements and overstayers)
7. Efforts to crackdown on human trafficking and prostitution
8. Efforts to reduce pedestrian congestion by prohibiting street vendors in some areas
9. Encouragement of environmental awareness (global warming, anti-littering efforts, plastic bag reduction campaigns, crackdown on illegal logging, organic farming)
10. Introduction of GPS tracking systems on public transport vehicles
11. Encouragement of "family values" and social cohesion. (yes, it's a little too paternalistic for me as well)
12. Efforts to encourage Thais to take pride in their country and to build awareness of their image internationally

Disappointments:

1. Failure to focus on the need to overhaul Thailand's failed educational system, especially in rural areas. So many of Thailand's social problems can be traced back to this problem.
2. Failure to crack down on traffic moving violations (speeding, reckless driving, drunk driving, driving under the influence, driving without a license, no helmet, seatbelt usage, vehicles which are poorly maintained, etc.) Thailand needs to get serious about its road safety; the road carnage has a huge economic and social cost.

Half of your list consist of normal government functions that could have been done by the elected government. Your last two "improvements" refer to government censorship, propaganda and cohesion at gunpoint. Your belief that the largest criminal organization in Thailand, the military, will do anything by re-arrange corruption to put more money in the pockets of generals and their cronies is laughable.

[ClutchClark]

@MZurf post #65.

I don't do strawman arguments by puting words in other posters mouths. Thst is why I asked IF you agree. I am glad to hear that you do agree that the futire of Thailand should be left to the Thai to determine.

It appears that even though you feel this way it doesn't stop you from holding and voicing a very strong opinion on how thst future of Thailand is being determined.

Listen gents, you guys are obviously alot more emotionally invested in this entire subject than I am and have a much better idea of the details.

I like the changes I have seen on my visits here. But I live in the US and we have enough of our own problems in the US these days so I will leave it to the Thai Authorities to sort this out. From the reading I have done, it looks like this country gets run into the ground by its corrupt political leadership as much as is happening in the US.

Instead of commenting on a subject you clearly know little about, why not read a little about the current situation on Thailand? The current issue of the Economist has two excellent articles on the current state of the country and explains why continued military rule will lead to ruin. I can't provide direct links to the articles, but you should have no trouble finding them. http://www.economist.com/printedition/2016-07-23

Bruce,

I never suggested I was an expert. All I said was that I liked the improvements I have seen. I have read about it. My wife tells me about it.

Are you an expert? Is anyone here an expert that could chime in with an expert opinion?

I will find the articles you suggest-thanks. I recall reading one some time ago in the Economist so maybe the same.

I have obviously hit a very raw nerve with some of you and that was not my intent but you are the first to actually respond with a positive contribution and not just hurl insults my way.

Funny thing but hurling insults like a couple of these guys doesn't help make any point.

Offering some informative articles does so thanks.

So are you saying that the Junta was never good for Thailand? Was good for a short while but no longer? Is worse than the politicians who were running the country into the ground?

Do you think there was mounting civil unrest prior to the Junta ? Wasn't that civil unrest resulting in violent actions ? Weren't there shootings ?

Edited July 27, 2016 by ClutchClark

[heybruce]

Rice scheme damages total 549,000,000,000 THB. (Thsts billion--did I use the correct number of zeros?)

Were things as good before the Junta as some people want to remember?

No, but things were better than now. With democracy the Thai people can choose leaders who promise to serve all of Thailand, and can kick them out in the next election if the leaders disappoint. Under military rule the leaders serve certain interests that can't be named, and can't be kicked out without bloodshed.

Do you really not understand the difference?