Smartphone, handbag returned after police nab Phuket brother thieves who robbed foreigners

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, Chapelroad said:

 

 i know a very good lawyer, who is also a retired Member of Parliament. 

 

He has told me, in a personal conversation, that corruption up to an actual trial is rife, as most of us are aware.

 

He also told me that once it goes to trial, it is a different ball game altogether, and buying yourself out of jail does not happen.

 

Now, unless you can provide proof of your assumption, which I very much doubt you can, I will tend to carry on believing him rather than your BS.

lawyers are not corrupt because one told you they are not. come on i doubt you are that gullible. money buys everything here. even bought thaksin his freedom. just paid bail (a bribe) and he got on to his private jet, probably loaded down with his ill gotten gains and relocated to a different country. like i said the rich dont go to jail here. yet to hear an example of one who has.

[Chapelroad]

5 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

so you think judges cant be bribed because of this one case? everything in thailand is corrupt to some extent. i have friends who have gone through the courts with land issues and custody battles. there were plenty of brown envelopes going around.

 

With your incredible knowledge of the Thai justice system, I would have thought you would have realised that civil courts and criminal courts are separate entities ? Obviously not.   

[Chapelroad]

5 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

so you think judges cant be bribed because of this one case? everything in thailand is corrupt to some extent. i have friends who have gone through the courts with land issues and custody battles. there were plenty of brown envelopes going around.

 

With your incredible knowledge of the Thai justice system, I would have thought you would have realised that civil courts and criminal courts are separate entities ? Obviously not.   

[williamgeorgeallen]

5 hours ago, Chapelroad said:

 

Why do the rich and wealthy allegedly abscond to Singapore, Dubai, or wherever, when, as you assume, they can walk into the jail, pay a large amount of cash, and have their freedom back ?

the rich dont end up in jail so they dont have to buy their way out. never heard any news about of a rich person going to jail. they just bribe the police and move countries. guess you are referring to thaksin.  rich tend to get suspended jail sentences and hefty fines. you ever heard of a rich person doing jail time? will be interesting to see if that yink gai lady does any time or if she has enough money to buy her way out. haven't heard much about her lately so i guess she ponied up.

[williamgeorgeallen]

12 minutes ago, Chapelroad said:

 

With your incredible knowledge of the Thai justice system, I would have thought you would have realised that civil courts and criminal courts are separate entities ? Obviously not.   

i am certainly no expert  however a judge is a judge and thailand is thailand. you think because one judge sits in a  in a different court they are not corrupt.? you have been here 25 years right, you ever hear of a rich person going to jail? i havent in 10 years. i have only ever heard of poor people being jailed who could not pay off the cops to stop their cases being handed over to the prosecutor.

[Chapelroad]

23 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

i am certainly no expert  however a judge is a judge and thailand is thailand. you think because one judge sits in a  in a different court they are not corrupt.? you have been here 25 years right, you ever hear of a rich person going to jail? i havent in 10 years. i have only ever heard of poor people being jailed who could not pay off the cops to stop their cases being handed over to the prosecutor.

 

If my memory serves me right, didn't the ex mayor of Chonburi go down ?

 

Skint was he ?

[landslide]

9 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

The usually few hundred baht fine, and couple of thousand at most under the table. All a joke, no wonder most of the 'suspects' are laughing at the photo shoot.

Not possible to see these guys laughing, with their faces blurred.

[billythehat]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

Sure I have read that post. So what?

 

It remains nonsense. Just as your post shows a complete lack of knowledge of the subject.

 

Oh, and you want me to explain the lack of quality reporting here?

 

Sir, my post shows a clear understanding of the subject so please refrain from being so cheeky. However, should you deign most generously to keep us all amused explaining what words on a page mean, please proceed without delay...

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

lawyers are not corrupt because one told you they are not. come on i doubt you are that gullible. money buys everything here. even bought thaksin his freedom. just paid bail (a bribe) and he got on to his private jet, probably loaded down with his ill gotten gains and relocated to a different country. like i said the rich dont go to jail here. yet to hear an example of one who has.

Thaksin nwoul not have had to pay the judge to get back, in a case like that bail is sop. Even for murder bail is often granted.

Edited August 7, 2016 by stevenl

[stevenl]

6 hours ago, billythehat said:

 

Sir, my post shows a clear understanding of the subject so please refrain from being so cheeky. However, should you deign most generously to keep us all amused explaining what words on a page mean, please proceed without delay...

Why don't you post on topic and stop baiting.

[4MyEgo]

18 hours ago, LivinginKata said:

 

The usually few hundred baht fine, and couple of thousand at most under the table. All a joke, no wonder most of the 'suspects' are laughing at the photo shoot.

Too late for that, once they appear at the police station, its all over, all bribes are off. 

 

These guys will get 6 years each, possibly reduced to 3 after they show they can be model prisoners, as we know the prisons here are not hotels like back home, about 30 to a cell, you sleep on a floor if you don't have someone/family or friend provide you with a roll up mattress and blanket, one hole in the ground for your crap which is partitioned by a single low set brick wall in the same room, and a garbage can full of water with saucepan for your cold shower.

 

Hopefully when they get out, they might think twice, but then again, I would think it hard as Thailand offers little opportunity to survive for its inhabitants ?

[Chapelroad]

10 hours ago, Chapelroad said:

 

If my memory serves me right, didn't the ex mayor of Chonburi go down ?

 

Skint was he ?

 

You have no answer for that one ?

 

Or was he ANOTHER exception to your rule ?

[williamgeorgeallen]

32 minutes ago, Chapelroad said:

 

You have no answer for that one ?

 

Or was he ANOTHER exception to your rule ?

sorry i had to go to sleep so i could not answer you immediately.  quoting individual cases and saying they will prove a fact just does not work. occasionally some rich wrong doers may run up against a judge that can not be bribed or they simply dont have enough funds to do so. the point that i want to make is there is no rule, mine or anyone elses, there is just the way things are. judges in thailand are just as corrupt as everyone else. those who can pay will walk most of the time. occasionally one may go down but i am sure a well greased appeal or payment at the jail will mean little or no jail time will result. think you said you have been here a long time. i am surprised that you would think otherwise.

[Chapelroad]

2 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

sorry i had to go to sleep so i could not answer you immediately.  quoting individual cases and saying they will prove a fact just does not work. occasionally some rich wrong doers may run up against a judge that can not be bribed or they simply dont have enough funds to do so. the point that i want to make is there is no rule, mine or anyone elses, there is just the way things are. judges in thailand are just as corrupt as everyone else. those who can pay will walk most of the time. occasionally one may go down but i am sure a well greased appeal or payment at the jail will mean little or no jail time will result. think you said you have been here a long time. i am surprised that you would think otherwise.

 

So your sweeping statement that "RICH PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO JAIL', has been amended to include words like, occasionally, sometimes, maybe.

 

Occasionally, sometimes, maybe you make silly statements, that can be proven to be incorrect.

 

As for the individual cases I stated, you asked for any examples, and I provided some, I didn't even have to ask Jeeves.

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Too late for that, once they appear at the police station, its all over, all bribes are off. 

 

These guys will get 6 years each, possibly reduced to 3 after they show they can be model prisoners, as we know the prisons here are not hotels like back home, about 30 to a cell, you sleep on a floor if you don't have someone/family or friend provide you with a roll up mattress and blanket, one hole in the ground for your crap which is partitioned by a single low set brick wall in the same room, and a garbage can full of water with saucepan for your cold shower.

 

Hopefully when they get out, they might think twice, but then again, I would think it hard as Thailand offers little opportunity to survive for its inhabitants ?

it is unlikely these guys will go to jail, only if they cant pay the bail or fine. 2 of my staff were caught with yaba tablets and i got a call from one of their mothers to ask for help. they were down at the police station and had worked out the bail already but the boys mothers did not have the money, 4000thb each. the mothers promised to repay me which i doubted however i went ahead and paid the bail. they were not given any sort of a receipt and i found out the bail was going to be kept in return for not passing the case on to the prosecutor. the boys got off and the mothers even paid me back. they were very grateful as loosing the financial support from their sons going to jail would have been a big problem. drugs are considered a worse crime than petty theft and it was just a fine so why should petty thieves go to jail?

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

32 minutes ago, Chapelroad said:

 

So your sweeping statement that "RICH PEOPLE DO NOT GO TO JAIL', has been amended to include words like, occasionally, sometimes, maybe.

 

Occasionally, sometimes, maybe you make silly statements, that can be proven to be incorrect.

 

As for the individual cases I stated, you asked for any examples, and I provided some, I didn't even have to ask Jeeves.

of course i make mistakes. i am human. will amend my statement. rich people very rarely go to jail in thailand. of course there are exceptions to almost every rule.

you really think judges are not corrupt in thailand?  why would judges be any different to anyone else in a position of power? oops better say the majority of them would be on the take just in case there are exceptions to the general rule.

Edited August 8, 2016 by williamgeorgeallen

[Chapelroad]

3 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

of course i make mistakes. i am human. will amend my statement. rich people very rarely go to jail in thailand. of course there are exceptions to almost every rule.

you really think judges are not corrupt in thailand?  why would judges be any different to anyone else in a position of power? oops better say the majority of them would be on the take just in case there are exceptions to the general rule.

 

I tried to give your post half a 'like' for your first paragraph, but the system would not let me !

 

Keep on smiling .

[williamgeorgeallen]

will do champ.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

sorry i had to go to sleep so i could not answer you immediately.  quoting individual cases and saying they will prove a fact just does not work. occasionally some rich wrong doers may run up against a judge that can not be bribed or they simply dont have enough funds to do so. the point that i want to make is there is no rule, mine or anyone elses, there is just the way things are. judges in thailand are just as corrupt as everyone else. those who can pay will walk most of the time. occasionally one may go down but i am sure a well greased appeal or payment at the jail will mean little or no jail time will result. think you said you have been here a long time. i am surprised that you would think otherwise.

Ah, that's why you were asking for an example. Because individual cases don't prove.

So your post 45 is what?

Edited August 8, 2016 by stevenl

[williamgeorgeallen]

does not prove anything. was just sharing an experience i had with how i saw the system working with criminals walking after a fine despite being caught red handed.

[williamgeorgeallen]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

Thaksin nwoul not have had to pay the judge to get back, in a case like that bail is sop. Even for murder bail is often granted.

bail is granted by the cops because they hope the criminal does a runner and they get to keep it. cant remember how many million they made off thaksins bail but it was quite a bit.

[Old Croc]

I have close personal knowledge of 3 cases which were resolved at my local (infamous?) police station without going to court.

Two cases involved farang on farang assault, where the aggrieved parties wanted the other to face court, but cash settlements were negotiated at the station. No charges laid.

The third was the druggie son of a local lady, an acquaintance of my wife. The little a/hole was involved in a chase with police which resulted in him facing possible charges including possession of Yabba, evading police, etc.  They were told 15,000 (bail!) would get him out or he would be facing two years inside. Despite my strong objections, the wife lent this sum to the lady which enabled her to retrieve her confiscated motorbike and the loser kid. Surprisingly the money was returned to us about a week later when up country relatives sent the lady enough to settle the debt.

I believe the kid has been in trouble again, but the wife knew we wouldn't be providing this sort of help again for druggies!

 

So, from my knowledge,  criminal cases can be sorted at the local cop shop for a price set by the BIB who obviously benefit from the system. I guess it stops the courts being clogged with relatively minor matters.

Even though the accused might wish to plead their case in court, the Police encourage them to settle by keeping them incarcerated until a ludicrously high bail is paid.

[Chapelroad]

My discussion on the matter was all about cases that have gone past the police station stage.

 

I never disputed the cash payments at the early stages.

 

I think you will find the further the procedure goes, the less chance there is of paying to get out of it.

[LivinginKata]

18 hours ago, stevenl said:

<snip>

This would be a very good subject from some in-depth reporting, checking up on what happened to the perpetrators of many of these 'petty' crimes. Through family I know some of them, and I also know where they end up: in jail with heavy sentences, something like this can easily warrant 5-10 years.

 

But there is the problem Stevel .... there is almost never ever any follow-up reporting for lower level cases. Do you realy expect the police and proscutors to give details on their possible corruption - get real.

 

The few cases I just happen to know about near neighbours and my wife's extended family .... they all escaped serious charges by paying money. My wife's nephew escaped petty drug dealing offenses the first time when his parents paid, second time they had no money and asked my wife to pay. No way - our view was let him learn the hard way. He got 2 years and as far as I know still in the clink.

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, Chapelroad said:

My discussion on the matter was all about cases that have gone past the police station stage.

 

I never disputed the cash payments at the early stages.

 

I think you will find the further the procedure goes, the less chance there is of paying to get out of it.

 

I can speak from our personal experience from a building permit problem.  My wife and myself built a basement floor that was not in the approved plan (wifey said no problem when I mentioned we might need approval ....  ). So the planning guy came along wanting money to make the problem go away, wifey refused,  planning office filed a case to police, police arrested us, wanted money to make it go away, we refused, off to court,  some governement prosecutor asked us (I was there, amazed that he asked in front of a foreigner) for money to make the case go away, we refused. Shortly after case dismissed as by then we had aquired the additional planning permission.

 

My long winded point is that we were asked for money all the way up to the court.

[Chapelroad]

1 hour ago, LivinginKata said:

 

I can speak from our personal experience from a building permit problem.  My wife and myself built a basement floor that was not in the approved plan (wifey said no problem when I mentioned we might need approval ....  ). So the planning guy came along wanting money to make the problem go away, wifey refused,  planning office filed a case to police, police arrested us, wanted money to make it go away, we refused, off to court,  some governement prosecutor asked us (I was there, amazed that he asked in front of a foreigner) for money to make the case go away, we refused. Shortly after case dismissed as by then we had aquired the additional planning permission.

 

My long winded point is that we were asked for money all the way up to the court.

 

I also speak from personal experience.

 

I was prosecuted by the police, and once the court date was set, there was no way I could have got out of it.

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, Chapelroad said:

 

I also speak from personal experience.

 

I was prosecuted by the police, and once the court date was set, there was no way I could have got out of it.

 

Aaaahh ... in our case we were on 60,000 baht bail each. A court date was never set. We both had to report every 6 weeks to the prosecuter's building (the place just opposite the labour office). We reported about 4 times = 24 weeks waiting to go to court. I had a lot of interesting talks on each visit with well know foreign characters while waiting on the hard benches to be interviewed. Really more about the next appointment in 6 weeks. I laugh about it now many many years later but at the time I was very  worried.  By the way we got all our bail money  back.

[billythehat]

21 hours ago, stevenl said:

Why don't you post on topic and stop baiting.

 

....yawn....

[NamKangMan]

On 08/08/2016 at 3:35 PM, LivinginKata said:

 

I can speak from our personal experience from a building permit problem.  My wife and myself built a basement floor that was not in the approved plan (wifey said no problem when I mentioned we might need approval ....  ). So the planning guy came along wanting money to make the problem go away, wifey refused,  planning office filed a case to police, police arrested us, wanted money to make it go away, we refused, off to court,  some governement prosecutor asked us (I was there, amazed that he asked in front of a foreigner) for money to make the case go away, we refused. Shortly after case dismissed as by then we had aquired the additional planning permission.

 

My long winded point is that we were asked for money all the way up to the court.

 

So, which cost more, "the additional planning permission" or the money demanded from you to make the "problem" disappear? 

[NamKangMan]

On 08/08/2016 at 5:31 PM, Chapelroad said:

 

I also speak from personal experience.

 

I was prosecuted by the police, and once the court date was set, there was no way I could have got out of it.

 

A friend of mine was caught here riding his motorbike drunk. 

 

He never even made it to the police station, let alone a Court, to "negotiate" his punishment.  10,000 baht was asked of him at the scene.  He told the BiB he didn't have 10,000 baht in his wallet and needed to go to an ATM. 

 

The BiB escorted him to the ATM, he withdrew 10,000 baht and handed it over.  He was then allowed to ride off. 

 

Unfortunately, this is a prime example of law and order, or lack of it, on Phuket.