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Sous Vide cooking in Thailand, will we wake up?


GAZZPA

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Have you ever noticed if you ever want to charge huge money for something in the world of food just give it a French name. A funny example springs to mind of a desert I read about in a French restaurant called "Pallette De Coleur", basically it means palette of colours and consisted of 3 different flavour scoops of ice cream, cost was about 15usd if I remember correctly. 

 

Well over the past few years we have been hit with another reinvented phenomenon, the new cooking trend known as "Sous Vide", basically it means under vacuum in French. So what does it all mean, well it is very simple cooking technique that has been around for a very long time, a quick look on wikipedia quotes a gentleman Sir Benjamin Thompson first talking about this cooking technique in 1799. Anyway, for me I remember it as "boil in the bag", at least this was something very similar and it was around when I was a boy for sure.

 

The principe is simple, seal the food in a bag,  cook it in a gently simmering water at a consistent temperature and the food comes out moist and retains its subtle flavours and textures. i have no problem with this at all, makes sense, I know it works and for certain foods it tastes great. 

 

Where I take issue is the reinvention of it all. 

 

Today it is sold in thousands of swanky restaurants as a revolutionary cooking technique all over the world and everyone has latched onto the cooking technique "sous vide". And it does not stop there. You can now buy one of these machines for your home and enjoy the marvel of this technique whilst cooking your dinner. Sous vide machines are available now in the West and more recently in Thailand, and the cost for ownership? Anything from 200usd for a simple portable device up to 1500usd for a water tank with built in heater and temperature control gauge. Plus of course you need to buy the vacuum unit to seal the food in plastic, and no doubt you will also need to buy the plastic and finally no new cooking technique would be complete without the new recipe cook book.

 

I am amazed at this new phenomenon though, it is simply "boil in the bag". Basically all you need to do is hold the water temperature steady and seal the food in a bag. So, these "Sous vide" machines are simply water heaters are they not? I mean what else can they be? Ok, they have thermostatically controlled elements and often a digital read out, perhaps a stainless steel body, heavy construction and a good heavy lid.. But lets get to the point, it is a device that boils and holds the temperature of water.

 

So, what does it matter how it is done? For example, I take a piece of fresh fish, i seal it in a bag with some herbs and place it is some hot, gently simmering water (about 90% in a pan) what is the difference? The top machine on Amazon (with a 2 month waiting list and costs 450usd!) holds water temperature at 86%, so very similar. So, it i fill a big pan with water on a hob and simmer the fish in deep water at a steady simmer of about 86% isn't it doing exactly the same as the sous vide machine? I mean, does the fish know the water is being heated by a big swanky machine or a simple pan? No of course it doesn't.

 

I am sure many will defend the "sous vide" things, someone has to because a lot of people are making a lot of money whilst the fad lasts. I am sure someone will give me some kind of science lesson and emphasise the importance of very precise temperature control to within 1/10th of a degree, etc, etc, etc,,, all of which I see as nonsense.

 

Anyway, if anyone has bought one, oh dear. For those who have not I have a very special priced "sous vide" kit for you, its called a saucepan and some "boil in the bag" food bags for you,  just $200usd and I will even throw in the most important component, a gallon of water.

 

I also have a business idea for a new cooking technique called "sous le gril". It is a technique of cooking food in a constant ambient temperature whilst concentrated heat colours the food from above, it also drains the excess fat from the food bringing health benefits. I am looking for investors at present so if anyone is interested please feel free to contact me, it's going to be huge!:D

 

Bon Appetite. (French for good appetite, or enjoy your food)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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When I built a  40 bedroom 4 star hotel in the 80s I had a Sous vide kitchen incorporated at a great financial cost much over that of a typical installation.

 

Precision ovens /steamers, Precision Blast coolers , had it all, even in those days it cost a fortune.

 

Then I had to employ a Chef who knew how to cook with this technique, there were not many options and I employed a London based Chef who was second Chef from a very big and famous London Airport hotel.

 

The only advantage, it seemed to me at the time was that if you were cooking for big numbers then it came into its own and the food was just as though it had been prepared that minute

 

One thing it wasn't and that was "boil in the bag"

Edited by n210mp
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1 hour ago, n210mp said:

When I built a  40 bedroom 4 star hotel in the 80s I had a Sous vide kitchen incorporated at a great financial cost much over that of a typical installation.

 

Precision ovens /steamers, Precision Blast coolers , had it all, even in those days it cost a fortune.

 

Then I had to employ a Chef who knew how to cook with this technique, there were not many options and I employed a London based Chef who was second Chef from a very big and famous London Airport hotel.

 

The only advantage, it seemed to me at the time was that if you were cooking for big numbers then it came into its own and the food was just as though it had been prepared that minute

 

One thing it wasn't and that was "boil in the bag"

Hahahaha,, Ok, I can see the Commercial benefits of it in your case, for ready to serve mass produced food with little chance of overcooking. But please note i am referring to the new home appliances that are in effect water heaters.

 

I do disagree that it is not boil in the bag though, it really is just that. If it took such enormous skill then the home version is useless anyway. I personally cannot see how it needs such expertise.

 

I have seen TV chefs sealing food in a bag and simmering it on the hob and calling it Sous Vide.

 

I think sometimes, just sometimes it is overcomplicated for the wrong reasons.:)

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Being 'sous vide' doesn't necessarily mean being cooked.  When I come to LOS I bring fresh meat with me and my butcher puts it SV.  It just means that it is tightly enclosed in a plastic packet and it stays fresher longer.   In my local super markets, a lot of products are sold like that.

 

By the way, if you wish to use French, get on to Google first and find out the right spelling.   "Palette de Couleur"and

'Bon Appetit' to you too.  (Sorry I don't have accents on my keyboard.)

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Gillyflower said:

Being 'sous vide' doesn't necessarily mean being cooked.  When I come to LOS I bring fresh meat with me and my butcher puts it SV.  It just means that it is tightly enclosed in a plastic packet and it stays fresher longer.   In my local super markets, a lot of products are sold like that.

 

By the way, if you wish to use French, get on to Google first and find out the right spelling.   "Palette de Couleur"and

'Bon Appetit' to you too.  (Sorry I don't have accents on my keyboard.)

 

 

 

 

I apologise for my poor French spelling, clearly I am not French and that you for taking the time to point it out to me..

 

If I am correct "sous vide" means under vacuum so yes the phrase doesn't necessarily mean cooking. However in this context it has been chosen as the phrase across the world to describe the cooking method. You can google the phrase for yourself and I think you will find the top hits are all about the "sous vide" cooking method.

 

Any comments on the actual point I was making? Is it a fad and a posh way of simply cooking in a bag in water using massively overpriced water heaters? 

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Not wishing to be pedantic but the technique was not actually to boil anything and the   phrase " Boil in the bag" just doesn't cut it or do justice to the concept of extreme accuracy temp control. when preparing food for consumption at a later date

 

If I remember the techniques  were to use  very accurate pinpoint  temperatures at all the stages of preparation including cold storage. (Definitely not freezing but blast cooling)

 

The final prep-of pre cooked food cooked  by this method was also to use pinpoint temps in  reheating and serving so that essentially if all  was done right , the food tasted as though it had just been freshly prepared.

 

Simple "Boil in the bag" was essentially where you took a plastic bag of food from the home  freezer or shop  and heated it up either by Microwave or boiling 

 

Edited by n210mp
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I am not a great fan of "boil in a bag" cooking, it is a bit like cheating.

 

I also don't really like the foam fancy French restaurants seem to add to every dish at the moment. However I do like French food in general.

 

Can't upload an image, so here u go: https://www.google.co.th/search?q=french+cooking+foam&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjrkdWlgrnOAhWJMo8KHZ8XAJYQ_AUICCgB&biw=1366&bih=667#imgdii=ETTyX8684yPP9M%3A%3BETTyX8684yPP9M%3A%3BGfb0Xqui9oWxjM%3A&imgrc=ETTyX8684yPP9M%3A

Edited by ExpatOilWorker
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The whole point of sous vide is to cook food at precisely controlled low temperatures for longer periods. It's been around for decades.

 

For example 56 degrees Celsius water temperature for X amount of hours where X can be anything from 1 hour to 10/20 hours.

 

It depends on what you're cooking of course.

 

To hold a large container of water at a precise temperature requires something called a circulator - this has a built in heater and water pump inside it, you can get a 'cheap' one for about 18,000 Baht in Thailand (Steba SV100) and that's all you need. It can work with a large container of water, not just a small pot so it's more useful for a commercial kitchen than home use.

 

Vacuum machines can cost anything from a couple of thousand Baht for a piece of crap to 30,000-100,000+ Baht for commercial chamber based models.

 

There's no boiling going on here though, this works at temperatures way below 100 degrees C.

Edited by ukrules
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33 minutes ago, ukrules said:

The whole point of sous vide is to cook food at precisely controlled low temperatures for longer periods. It's been around for decades.

 

For example 56 degrees Celsius water temperature for X amount of hours where X can be anything from 1 hour to 10/20 hours.

 

It depends on what you're cooking of course.

 

To hold a large container of water at a precise temperature requires something called a circulator - this has a built in heater and water pump inside it, you can get a 'cheap' one for about 18,000 Baht in Thailand (Steba SV100) and that's all you need. It can work with a large container of water, not just a small pot so it's more useful for a commercial kitchen than home use.

 

Vacuum machines can cost anything from a couple of thousand Baht for a piece of crap to 30,000-100,000+ Baht for commercial chamber based models.

 

There's no boiling going on here though, this works at temperatures way below 100 degrees C.

I understand. "Boil in the bag" is also not literally boiling, it is simmering. The water gently circulates around the food vacuumed inside the plastic until it is cooked.

 

I also understand there is a precision element to it. however, being in the manufacturing industry for electronics I know it is not anywhere near the kind of money they are talking about.

 

My point about this is not the cooking itself, I dont have an issue with the cooking technique, it has merits and makes sense. My issue is the reinvention of it under the banner "sous vide" and then charging extortionate amounts of money for it.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, n210mp said:

Not wishing to be pedantic but the technique was not actually to boil anything and the   phrase " Boil in the bag" just doesn't cut it or do justice to the concept of extreme accuracy temp control. when preparing food for consumption at a later date

 

If I remember the techniques  were to use  very accurate pinpoint  temperatures at all the stages of preparation including cold storage. (Definitely not freezing but blast cooling)

 

The final prep-of pre cooked food cooked  by this method was also to use pinpoint temps in  reheating and serving so that essentially if all  was done right , the food tasted as though it had just been freshly prepared.

 

Simple "Boil in the bag" was essentially where you took a plastic bag of food from the home  freezer or shop  and heated it up either by Microwave or boiling 

 

Well, yes and no.

 

The food is vacuum packed and then cooked gently in warm water of a period of time, I believe this is essentially what "Sous Vide" cooking is. It is certainly what they tell you it is on Amazon when the video explains the ease of use benefits of the "revolutionary water oven" for just 449 usd (plus vacuum packing and accessories of course). it seems to be what is is when I researched it a bit.

 

So, not a whole lot of difference really. If I vacuum packed some food and simmered it very gently in a saucepan of water and even went to the trouble of checking the water temperature every now and then to check its consistent well what is the difference? Don't see how you need 600 usd (or more) of home kitchen equipment.

 

I personally think it has been overcomplicated and made "trendy" for commercial reasons, nothing more.

 

 

 

 

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To Gazzpa

 

I'm on a lot of recipe/cooking sites and the only time I have heard the expression SV was on an English  site - Great British Chefs.  Super recipes, but very chic restaurant and top chef type recipes.  I say, the only time, no I hear it in France, but it is for what I talked about above.  For instance I like to bring real ly decent French bread and I ask them to put it SV.  Perhaps you are right and it is only a fad or being a bit - well we are 'top chefs' you know.  Snob!

I apologise for correcting you about the French.  As soon as I had I had done it, I regretted it.

 

Edited by Gillyflower
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You are all missing one major big component of sous vide.  After cooking it is not frozen but held at just below freezing.  Normal cooking and chilling methods the thermometers are plus or minus 5 to 10  up to 20 degrees and don't work.  For example your refrigerator has a 20 degree range as does your oven.  Cooling does not kick in until it gets too hot and heating does not kick in till it gets too cold.  Precise equipment costs 100% more than common household/cheap restaurant stuff.

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Sous Vide is high risk - low temp cooking plus vacuum plus high protein raw foods = hospital visit. 

 

Needs to be well controlled with good hygiene practices before and after prep.

 

For me it's up there with raw oysters, som tam, bungee jumping and ladyboys as not worth the risk.

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1 hour ago, Familyonthemove said:

Sous Vide is high risk - low temp cooking plus vacuum plus high protein raw foods = hospital visit. 

 

Needs to be well controlled with good hygiene practices before and after prep.

 

For me it's up there with raw oysters, som tam, bungee jumping and ladyboys as not worth the risk.

 

There is no risk if you know what you're doing.

 

Of course like most things in life, hardly anyone knows what they're doing.

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On 8/10/2016 at 7:54 PM, Gillyflower said:

Being 'sous vide' doesn't necessarily mean being cooked.  When I come to LOS I bring fresh meat with me and my butcher puts it SV.  It just means that it is tightly enclosed in a plastic packet and it stays fresher longer.   In my local super markets, a lot of products are sold like that.

 

By the way, if you wish to use French, get on to Google first and find out the right spelling.   "Palette de Couleur"and

'Bon Appetit' to you too.  (Sorry I don't have accents on my keyboard.)

 

 

 

 

If your keyboard has also number keys on the right, after pressing "Num Lock" you can do this:

Press "(left)Alt+138" and you get è. Small useful list below:

  138 -->è

  130 -->é

  136 -->ê

  133 -->à

  151 -->ù

  147 -->ô

  140 -->î

  135 -->ç

  139 -->ï

  137 -->ë

  145 -->æ

  171 -->½

  172 -->¼

  0128 -->€

  3      --> ♥

  4       -->♦

  5      -->♣

  6     --> ♠

  13    -->♪

  14   -->♫

  248  -->°

 

  And many more if you google "ascii characters" .

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16 hours ago, Gillyflower said:

To Gazzpa

 

I'm on a lot of recipe/cooking sites and the only time I have heard the expression SV was on an English  site - Great British Chefs.  Super recipes, but very chic restaurant and top chef type recipes.  I say, the only time, no I hear it in France, but it is for what I talked about above.  For instance I like to bring real ly decent French bread and I ask them to put it SV.  Perhaps you are right and it is only a fad or being a bit - well we are 'top chefs' you know.  Snob!

I apologise for correcting you about the French.  As soon as I had I had done it, I regretted it.

 

no offence taken. 

Ashamed to say the Brits do latch onto cooking fads like they are going out of fashion (if you see what I mea, hahahaha).

 

It is however, all over the USA and being sold in big quantities on Amazon, plus it is now being pushed in Thailand, so I think it is catching on. I think it's very funny. But please do not get me wrong, I have issue with cooking something a different way if it brings benefits, none at all. It is just the outrageous cost association and the stupid way we immediately attach a French phrase to anything food and increase the price tag.

 

It made me chuckle and thought I would share it.

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16 hours ago, Scotwight said:

You are all missing one major big component of sous vide.  After cooking it is not frozen but held at just below freezing.  Normal cooking and chilling methods the thermometers are plus or minus 5 to 10  up to 20 degrees and don't work.  For example your refrigerator has a 20 degree range as does your oven.  Cooling does not kick in until it gets too hot and heating does not kick in till it gets too cold.  Precise equipment costs 100% more than common household/cheap restaurant stuff.

Does it cost 100% more? Well, all I will add is I have been in Electronics manufacturing and trading for too many years now and I am absolutely certain I could source a water heater with precise temperature control that would retail for a hell of a lot less then 450usd.

 

Do you know that the mark up on these things is generally around the 30% to 35% mark, and this is for kitchen items many electronics are far less. So even allowing for 35% mark up plus shipping, duty, assembly etc it would mean this things actual cost around 250 to 270 USD from the factory (in China!)!

 

I dont buy it. Its all about making money and creating a fad to do so, simple as that. 

 

 

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On August 12, 2016 at 5:52 PM, SoiBiker said:

It's a technique people have been using for many years. Its not a fad just because you only recently learned about it. 

Sorry but you can't be reading my post very carefully. I know this technique has been around for a very long time, I stated that.

 

What I believe is the fad is the "reinvention" of it and the launch of it under the banner of "Sous Vide" resulting in massively overpriced "Sous Vide" domestic water oven devices. 

 

Indeed the whole point of my post is the point out that it is indeed not new and that this is all just marketing to make money.

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Then you've not been paying attention - this isn't just 'boil in the bag', and precise temperature control is essential to the technique.

 

It's not recently been reinvented as sous vide - the technique has been around for years. You clearly just weren't aware of it, and still don't understand what it actually is.

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