Chopper with a general on board lost contact with control tower

[Glumpy]

I see that 'bad weather could have caused the helicopter to crash''. Bad weather doesn't cause helicopters to crash . Pilots deciding to fly into bad weather can cause a helicopter to crash. A pilot deciding to take off in bad weather  can cause a helicopter to crash.  In my 28 years of operating helicopters the vast majority of crashes were due to pilot error and usually weather conditions have been one of the main causes.  Very few crashes have been due to mechanical failure. When in doubt chicken out !  With high ranking passengers on board the pilot is still in charge no matter what  his own rank is .  There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots !

[SOTIRIOS]

...condolences to the families...

 

...seems like every 2nd 'copter crashes....

 

...something not right here....???

[ClutchClark]

28 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

...condolences to the families...

 

...seems like every 2nd 'copter crashes....

 

...something not right here....???

 

In order to make that claim wouldn't you need to know how many helicopters they have in the fleet ?

[ClutchClark]

36 minutes ago, Glumpy said:

I see that 'bad weather could have caused the helicopter to crash''. Bad weather doesn't cause helicopters to crash . Pilots deciding to fly into bad weather can cause a helicopter to crash. A pilot deciding to take off in bad weather  can cause a helicopter to crash.  In my 28 years of operating helicopters the vast majority of crashes were due to pilot error and usually weather conditions have been one of the main causes.  Very few crashes have been due to mechanical failure. When in doubt chicken out !  With high ranking passengers on board the pilot is still in charge no matter what  his own rank is .  There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots !

 

I have only flown VFR but I understand these UH-72A can fly IFR.

 

Can you shed some light?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[bdenner]

3 hours ago, nausea said:

Helicopters are inherently dangerous.

And so is my Isuzu DMAX:-

 

Both statements are as ridiculous as each other!

[waldroj]

14 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

In order to make that claim wouldn't you need to know how many helicopters they have in the fleet ?

They still have a few left http://www.helis.com/database/org/th_royal_thai_army/

[whatproblem]

If they fly like they drive ,drunk and recklessly no wonder they crash

[Mook23]

we all know the ghosts did it and according to Thai customs it was therefore meant to be. those remote areas, doi inthanon,  etc.are full with mountains and tree spirits. amulets are the only solution. more amulets is what Thailand needs. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

In order to make that claim wouldn't you need to know how many helicopters they have in the fleet ?

 

There is a Wikipedia link here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_UH-72_Lakota

 

and the info is here

Export

On 7 June 2013, Thailand requested the sale of six UH-72A Lakotas with associated equipment, training, and support for an estimated cost of $77 million.^[51] On 9 October 2013, the Thai government approved $55 million in funds to support the Royal Thai Army's acquisition of six UH-72A helicopters from 2013 to 2015.^[52] On 28 March 2014, the Thai Army awarded a $34 million contract to Airbus Helicopter for six UH-72As, fitted with a mission equipment package including the AN/ARC-231 airborne radio terminal; deliveries were to begin by April 2015.^[53] On 29 September 2014, Congress was notified of a Thailand request for the sale of another nine UH-72 Lakotas, related equipment, and support.^[54][55] By November 2015, the six helicopters had been delivered.^[1]

[Knocker33]

Is there any mode of transport safe to travel in in this place ?

[Roota]

2 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I have only flown VFR but I understand these UH-72A can fly IFR.

Recent models, which would seem to include this one, are FAA certified for both conventional and GPS IFR.

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

There is a Wikipedia link here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_UH-72_Lakota

 

and the info is here

Export

On 7 June 2013, Thailand requested the sale of six UH-72A Lakotas with associated equipment, training, and support for an estimated cost of $77 million.^[51] On 9 October 2013, the Thai government approved $55 million in funds to support the Royal Thai Army's acquisition of six UH-72A helicopters from 2013 to 2015.^[52] On 28 March 2014, the Thai Army awarded a $34 million contract to Airbus Helicopter for six UH-72As, fitted with a mission equipment package including the AN/ARC-231 airborne radio terminal; deliveries were to begin by April 2015.^[53] On 29 September 2014, Congress was notified of a Thailand request for the sale of another nine UH-72 Lakotas, related equipment, and support.^[54][55] By November 2015, the six helicopters had been delivered.^[1]

 

Thanks billd,

 

I actually posted this stuff earlier. I was just trying to debunk a posters claim as to how frequently there are rotary wing events in Thailand. 

[HooHaa]

i suspect you are missing the point, it is not the number of rotary wing accidents nor their frequency, its all about who was in the choppers that have gone down.

 

its quite an illustrious list.

Edited August 16, 2016 by HooHaa

[ClutchClark]

24 minutes ago, Roota said:

Recent models, which would seem to include this one, are FAA certified for both conventional and GPS IFR.

 

Having used the older Garmin 276/296/etc aviation series  for horizontal positioning only , I have no experience with the vertical limitations on GPS models approved for IFR...most likely this was equipped with a Garmin GNS-430.

 

Assuming this aircraft was GPS-IFR capable, then wouldn't that technology have made flying into these low-visibilty weather conditions an acceptable practice? 

 

As you said earlier, very few crashes have been due to mechanical failure and this aircraft is a twin engine on top of that. 

 

Cheers

Edited August 16, 2016 by ClutchClark

[farcanell]

22 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

i suspect you are missing the point, it is not the number of rotary wing accidents nor their frequency, its all about who was in the chopper that went down.

 

its quite an illustrious list.

 

Illustrious?

 

an Lt, a captain and a maj general ( plus two non comms)... It must be in the names, because it's not in the rank

 

that said, after the seemingly usual round of promotions for incompetence ( crashing a new helicopter) posthumously, I suppose it has become an "illustrious" list

[HooHaa]

ah, you are thinking to the present, look back a few decades and see how many people of significance have perished while aboard helicopters.

 

one would have hoped i didn't need to spell it out.

[farcanell]

"Choppers that have"

 

I see your post edited point.... Fair enough too, I suppose.... And although conspiracy theorizing.... It's certainly not of the "tin foil hat" type.

[tomacht8]

Sad story here with the helicopters.
A lot of helicopters have crashed in the past.
Instead to buy submarines they should prefer to buy new helicopters and equip the unused aircraft carrier with them.

[Winniedapu]

2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Sad story here with the helicopters.
A lot of helicopters have crashed in the past.
Instead to buy submarines they should prefer to buy new helicopters and equip the unused aircraft carrier with them.

 

 

Or perhaps do the maintenance. Properly.

 

Oh, sorry... Thais don't do maintenance. I forgot. For a moment there, I thought this was a normal country.

 

Winnie

[farcanell]

9 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Sad story here with the helicopters.
A lot of helicopters have crashed in the past.
Instead to buy submarines they should prefer to buy new helicopters and equip the unused aircraft carrier with them.

 

I think it was a new helicopter.

[ClutchClark]

8 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

I think it was a new helicopter.

 

What nerve you have destroying a member's rant with facts.

 

Shame on you.

[amykat]

6 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Based on the fact that four of the bodies were discovered outside of the cabin by some distance, it is highly unlikely this crash was the result of flying into a mountain.

 

That type of impact results in casualties being found still buckled into their seats.

 

 

 

I was wondering when I read that, if this just shows that those 4 people weren't wearing any seatbelts? 

[tomacht8]

12 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

I think it was a new helicopter.

That's sad.
Here is a list of all accidents.
Many helicopter crashes included.
http://www.thai-aviation.net/files/Air_Accidents.pdf

 

[ClutchClark]

1 minute ago, amykat said:

 

I was wondering when I read that, if this just shows that those 4 people weren't wearing any seatbelts? 

 

Wearing harnesses is not an option.

It is a mandatory practice by all professional pilots and their crew.

To suggest otherwise is absurd.

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

I was wondering when I read that, if this just shows that those 4 people weren't wearing any seatbelts? 

 

Violent spinning during descent vs impact, perhaps.

[ClutchClark]

6 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

Violent spinning during descent vs impact, perhaps.

 

Somebody has watched too many Hollywood movies I am afraid.

 

Harnesses do not come loose and doors do not fly open as a result of g-force.

 

This thread should be locked pending further news releases.

 

 

[amykat]

Yes, but Thai men don't always follow safety rules and how would explain why 4 bodies were found so far away with no wreckage, and the only body inside was, in his seat, like you would expect?  And today I saw the helicopter take off on a video a FB friend who was in the flood in Pai, put up.  I think the doors were open but I am going to go check again now.  The weather was fine at that moment and place, by the way. 

[farcanell]

3 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Somebody has watched too many Hollywood movies I am afraid.

 

Harnesses do not come loose and doors do not fly open as a result of g-force.

 

This thread should be locked pending further news releases.

 

 

 

Very true... Improved design criteria and all that jazz.

 

but in bad weather, a lightening strike might cause all sorts of external and internal failures.

 

crash experts need to deconstruct this type of event to prevent future incidents.... Let's hope that's done.... But I wouldn't recommend holding your breath whilst waiting on further news releases ( containing salient points re cause, anyway)

[amykat]

Okay, I went and looked at the video again.  The doors were NOT open while flying.  There were many still photos before flying with the doors open which is what I was remembering.  Sorry for that.

[ClutchClark]

It is not uncommon for doors to be open under specific operations. But the two front doors are hinge-type doors that swing open like a car door and when travelling at 130+ knots they cannot be kept open even if you wanted them to be. 

 

Furthermore, these aircraft have A/C and this would have been on....if for no other eason than to keep moisture level low.

 

i know its the favorite past time for TVF members to do a CSI:Thailand episode on these things and I know I risk permanent ban for not playing my part in bashing all things Thai but...there is zero indication that these pilots were anything but professional military pilots entrusted with the latest helicopters in the fleet. 

 

For people here to suggest reckless behavior about these pilots is quite unfair to all pilots who have crashed an aircraft. Do a Google search and you will find US military pilots have also crashed this very same type of helicopter.

 

A thorough investigation will take place by the manufacturer because that is the way things work. This is not a Baht bus in BKK. 

 

My apologies if this post is rude. I am tired and I want to go home to home in the US and wake up in my own bed and drink my own coffee and see my dogs.