Supply Issues

[Negita43]

Probably for  Crossy or Forkinhades

 

I consulted you frequently when I was building my house about the electrics. The house was completed about 4 years ago and everything was fine until a few months ago.

 

Now I appear to have have a problem with the supply. It is evidenced by the lights dimming and then brightening frequently and by the line interactive UPS’s I have (2) “clicking” frequently and sometimes even rebooting the computer.

 

I have put a meter in one of the sockets and over various times it shows voltages between 199 and 257.

 

The electricity company came around the other day fiddled around outside and with the local transformer then came into the house and checked some things and announced that probably I was drawing too much power.

 

The easy solution for them which I find hard to believe since everything was fine for three and a half years with the same equipment connected. I have even switched off the freezer, fridge, water pump etc and the problem persists.

 

I’m a layman but it has not escaped my attention that about 6 months ago they built a large substation about 2 kilometers away (about the same time the problem started to develop) and that several new factories have been built along the road to my house. Also shortly after this my microwave inexplicably stopped working with a bang! Whether this is a factor or not I just do not know.

 

Anyway, the Electricity company will return on Saturday again but I am not confident that this issue will be resolved so I have two questions.

 

1. Is there any way I can collect more data to show them. (Today I am going to buy another UPS and use its software to measure input voltages (the problem with my current UPS is that frequently the surges or spikes or whatever is causing this actually is so great it reboots the computer (and then loses the data).

 

2. On the assumption I am not going to resolve this issue with the Electric Company is there any reasonably priced equipment I can install to regulate the incoming voltage for the whole house?

 

Thanks a lot for any suggestions

[Crossy]

Search the forum for AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator).

 

I did write a longer reply but the brilliant forum software crashed out and it's gone

 

EDIT One thread here

 

 

[Negita43]

Thanks Crossy - I don't know what's happening but it took me 30 mins to actually get into the Thai Visa site and I'm not sure but I had to disable my VPN to finally get in but that may have been a co-incidence.  I know I am talking to an expert but I always write my stuff in a word processor first and then cut and paste into the forum it can save a lot of frustration.

 

Thanks again I'll look for the reference you gave me.

[Negita43]

Hi Crossy, I wonder if I can pick your brains again about my electric problem:

 

1. Yesterday I installed a 480 watt APC (Schneider) UPS which hope would have software to continuously monitor input voltage – it doesn’t (talking with support about that). What it does do is give me an analysis of “events”. Last night (ie between 11 pm and 6am this morning) I had 3 over voltage events (which according to the settings must have meant voltages of over 280 volts!!).

 

It also had 15 “noise” events. I know you don’t work for Schneider but is there an industry definition of what “noise” means?

 

2. Last evening I also put a meter in a socket it showed a reading of around 220 volts I then switched on the microwave and the voltage dropped to around 195 volts and the lights dimmed. I know magnatrons draw a lot of power but would you think this is normal and does it signify anything else about the quality of the supply?

 

3. In the topic you directed me to there is some talk about 5/15,15/45 meters. Where can I find out what I have. - On my bill I have a heading that says Type 1125 do you think this refers to my supply 11/25?

 

Thanks in anticipation of your answers and if you are ever in Korat let me know I owe you lots of drinks!

[Crossy]

1. I think you need the business edition of PowerChute to glean anything useful, I have an APC (Schneider) UPS too, the home version of PowerChute is somewhat limited but I've not got round to doing anything about it. Let us know how you get on with "Support". No idea on the "noise" events I'm afraid.

 

2. A drop of 10% from just powering up the microwave is excessive. Rather than monitoring at an outlet can you check the what voltage at your incoming supply at the main breaker is doing. We need to identify where that volt drop is coming from (verify it's not your internal wiring), if it's external then an AVR is your quick solution.

 

3. Look at your meter, somewhere on the face plate it will tell you the type rating, post a photo if you can't identify easily.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

From the OP, my guess is that the PEA is trying to cater to the factories and don't have it figured out yet.  Here, a water purification business opened about a year ago (guessing at least 150 meters from the nearest transformer) and now the "normal" voltage for the village is over 240 volts.  We don't have brown out issues but the voltage will surge to over 250 v at times.  Frustrating for sure.

[Negita43]

Update (Crossy)

 

Just to update you on the power issues

 

1. I did what you said and checked the voltage drop on the consumer unit input cables when switching on the microwave sure enough the voltage dropped from 220 to 185 ish. I also checked with the kettle in case there was a problem with the microwave – same thing.

 

2. When PEA came in the week they said they would return on Saturday but insisted that the Thai electrician who installed everything came too (I am sure they wanted to blame the installation for the problems – for my part I was actually quite impressed with his professionalism).

 

Anyway he came and PEA came, I showed both my Schneider reports – 2 under voltages (less than 150), 7 over voltages (more than 280) and 23 “noise” interruptions in a 12 hour period. They looked and nodded (but I’m not sure they understood). Next I noticed they had put a meter on the input side of the usage meter outside. It showed 220 volts and they seemed happy with that so I told them to keep the meter on and then I went in the house and switched on the kettle.

When I got back their attitude changed completely. Shortly after they went off in their truck and came back 30 mins later. Now I have 230 to240 volts and the drop when switching on the kettle/microwave is around 6 volts.

 

I have had no flickering lights and no events on the APC ups since then.

 

Thanks Crossy for yor help. PEA and my electrician got their beers, yours is waiting for you in Nakhon Ratchasima (Korat) when next you are passing.

 

PS in spite of their claim to a 1 day response no answer from schneider yet. I’ll let you know.

[bankruatsteve]

Except that you really should not see a voltage drop when you turn something on, at least it sounds better.  Good that you can get the PEA involved.  

[Crossy]

We get about a 3V drop at the incomer when turning on the kettle (just checked) and we are on a reasonably good and stable supply, 6V is quite acceptable compared with the massive 35V burp our OP was seeing. Supply is currently 228V @ 6.8A which is our standard Sunday morning load, pool pump, fans, three PCs.

 

It would be interesting to know what the PEA chaps did, probably too late to find out now. Hopefully it will last.

[Negita43]

I did ask PEA what they did and all I got was  that they did something in the transformer on the estate where I live.

 

I remember many many years ago when I lived in Herefordshire in the middle of nowhere I had a transformer on a pole in my garden taking supply off a 3 phase line. I also had a UPS which had software to monitor voltage. One day I noticed that I was persistently getting in excess of 250V. (In those days the standard? was 220 plus or minus 10%). I complained to MEB (Midlands Electricity Board). but they didn't respond until one of my computers (I worked in IT) not on a UPS blew up. I complained again and threatened to sue them. Eventually they sent out a guy who put a meter on my meter. After that I had never seen MEB move so fast. Within 30 minutes a team was out climbing up my pole wearing big rubber gloves and dipping their hands into an oil filled transformer. They told me that they had adjusted the tapping (I think). Maybe PEA did a similar thing on their transformer. By the way after I sent them the log of the voltages I had been receiving MEB coughed up for the parts for me to build a new computer!

 

Between 8 am and 7pm today the voltage has varied between 221 and 236 ( measured every 2 minutes) by my cleanline ups software.

 

Thanks again everybody for your help and interest.

[Negita43]

Crossy - Reply from Schneider (Thailand)

 

Dear Khun Fred,

In response to your : 30715797 : Ask APC: Monitoring Input voltages to a log file
Hereunder please find our answer :

I Apologize to inform you that Powerchute Personal edition has not data log which means that its not possible  to keep a log of input voltages.
However you can still check input  voltages from menu Current status please see picture in attached file.
If you need the data log we would recommend smart UPS with  Power Chute Business Edition.

Regards,
Paveena CHANSAMAI
Customer Care Center

Schneider Electric Thailand
Phone: +66 2 6175555
Email: [email protected]
Site: www.schneider-electric.com/th

[Crossy]

Yeah, thanks Negita, I thought that may be the case.

 

It does seem counter intuitive that you can monitor the voltage "live" but there's no facility to log it.

 

It's possible someone has produced a 3rd-party software to talk to the UPS to do what we desire, could be worth a quick Google hunt.

[Negita43]

Hi Crossy, Yes there are several open source monitors but they don't (on a very brief try) recognize the Schneider. I have another UPS which was called a Powermatic Cleanline which does have  software to continuously monitor voltage. I thought this had been somehow broken by my power issues BUT after the problem was fixed I reinstalled the software, checked the battery and now it is working and monitoring fine.

 

With regards to the Schneider email I of course sent them a snotty reply complaining and today out of the blue I got this email. At least they are trying.

PS Since the problem was fixed only one "Noise" interruption (last night so I hope that's not an indicator of things to come)

Dear Mr. Fred

In response to your 30843053: Re: Ask APC: Monitoring Input voltages to a log file    [
Hereunder please find our answer:

Please accept my sincere apologize on our delay response.
First of all, My team had been informed you that the Powerchute Personal edition has not data log which means that its not possible  to keep a log of input voltages.
So,  we will raise/cross check with our expert team to find alternative solution to serve you more.

Again, We will keep you an updated immediately.

Best Regards,

Customer Care Center
Schneider Electric Thailand
Phone: +66 2 6175555
Email: [email protected]
Site: www.schneider-electric.com/th

 

[Crossy]

I found this, http://www.apcupsd.org/wordpress/about/ it does work with the APC Back-UPS, I couldn't get it to log the voltages, but in reality I didn't try too hard. If you're any good with CGI / Perl I expect you could make it do what you want

 

 

[Negita43]

TKS I'll have a look (when I get time)