Want to work legally again after Retirement Extns for 6 years.

[pauleddy]

Still trying to answer this once and for all. Have 2-3 different opinions sent to me.

 

To change back to an O/A working visa (and so get a Work permit) AFTER retirement---

 

Do I need to go to Penang or etc to get a new visa and then convert at Immig?

 

Can I fly in on a Tourist visa (despite being retired) and then change to work visa at Immig?

 

Can I simply spend 3 hours at CW and ditch the retirement ext for a work visa? after paying 1900b.

-----------------------------------------------------

Some people say that I can work on a Ret extn if it's under 8 hours a week. This is quite a popular notion! Is it legal? Must it be for charity? Can I get a Wk permit for under 8 hours anyway, for paid work??

 

Thx

 

Eddy

[ubonjoe]

You can start working again after being on an extension of stay based upon working again. It is certainly not illegal. You can also use tourist visas or any other visa if you want to.

The hard part of doing the change is doing a work permit application that will be needed to get a non-b visa. You will likely have to leave to get a tourist visa or a visa exempt entry to apply for the work permit.

 

The following from your post is utter nonsense. You cannot do any work without a work permit. You will also not get a work permit for working only 8 hours a week.

"Some people say that I can work on a Ret extn if it's under 8 hours a week. This is quite a popular notion! Is it legal? Must it be for charity? Can I get a Wk permit for under 8 hours anyway, for paid work??"

 

 

 

[allane]

Hello Joe;

Is there a minimum number of hours per day/week/month below which the Labour Dept. will not process a Work Permit ? Two contrary examples come to my mind. I once met a Filipino guy who had a Work Permit to work as a lounge singer 6 nights per week at a major hotel in Bangkok. When he decided to work the seventh night at a different hotel, he got called in for either violating his W.P., or for not having a W.P. to work at the 2nd place, I am not sure which.

And I recall a story in The Phuket Gazette years ago where a foreigner got arrested for playing  guitar in a bar for nothing more than coins tossed into his guitar case. I think the charge was working without a W. P.

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, allane said:

Hello Joe;

Is there a minimum number of hours per day/week/month below which the Labour Dept. will not process a Work Permit ? Two contrary examples come to my mind. I once met a Filipino guy who had a Work Permit to work as a lounge singer 6 nights per week at a major hotel in Bangkok. When he decided to work the seventh night at a different hotel, he got called in for either violating his W.P., or for not having a W.P. to work at the 2nd place, I am not sure which.

And I recall a story in The Phuket Gazette years ago where a foreigner got arrested for playing  guitar in a bar for nothing more than coins tossed into his guitar case. I think the charge was working without a W. P.

 

There are minimum requirements to get a work permit. One of them is the number of hours worked but it would depend upon the type of work being done.

In you example it would of been for working at another location without it being shown on the work permit.

The playing the guitar one would be an example of something you cannot do. Sitting around with some friends and strumming the guitar would be OK.

[donmuang37]

Everyone, to the best of my knowledge and I've been a teacher here for 11 years,  individuals do not apply for work permits themselves.  A work permit is linked to a specific employer and is only valid for that employer.  My employer does all the paperwork (a big stack) for my work permit, I just sign the docs as directed.

 

You cannot do work for pay or even volunteer work without a work permit.  (Authorities may look the other way for volunteer work, or they may not. It depends on them and the situation.)  The two options for visas allowing work are: Nom-Immigrant B visa which the employ processes, or a supporting Thai wife visa which the individual processes.  I use the later because I can work or not work and don't have to leave the country to reapply if I wish to quit or change employers.  With a Non-Imm B, you must leave the country if your employment ends, and obtain a Non-Imm OA if you wish to return and apply for a retirement or supporting Thai wife visa.

 

Good luck!

[allane]

All well and good, and I agree with every word of it. But it barely addresses the minimum threshold question. My own interpretation is also a strict one; if any kind of work, paid or unpaid, even for minimal hours, requires a Work Permit, then the Labour Dept. can't refuse to process same. If there exists a written description as to what types and amounts of work are exempt, it would be interesting to see it.

[laislica]

Good Grief!

What total unreasonable BS and WHY if it's unpaid voluntary work?

When I am in Thailand, many people ask me to allow their children to practice their English with me.

Schools would love to invite me into occasional classes to help motivate Thai children to overcome their shyness and practice English.

I am on a retirement extension so I am forced to decline their requests.

Sure, I help one friends child on a one to one basis when our family groups travel and spend time together, but if I were to allow half a dozen kids into a home (ours or theirs)

someone might notice and Imm may pop round and I would be in a load of trouble.....

I could change to a marriage ext, but only maybe eh, depending on my local Imm Office made up rules......

Then go through BS to get a WP to do something for free?

 

I am not saying that this BS is only in Thailand.

We, the people. Have laid down and just take what authority stick to us!

Who gave Authority the privileged to do this?

They were voted in and are Public Servants or what?

 

One day a bunch of people got together and decided that THEY would create a Congress or similar and give themselves rights to tax and control all the people in their country. WHAT?

And we lay down and take it - WHY?

THEY Tax and regulate you, and you have no say in any of it!

 

This video clip says it all.....

 

 

 

 

 

[pbeukelm]

very true laislica, I notice that each government has their own little hangup too. In Thailand it is absolutely essential you do not do any work. The sky would fall down if you would do any work. What kind of weird fear is that? Don't talk with friends about secretly doing work, don't teach english to children for free. If you are behind your computer, you are always reading or answering email. Imagine all the employment opportunities for locals that are lost with this policy.

If you look at it from a distance, it is quiet weird. Other governments are totally freaking out if you are sitting on your but all day, because you have to earn them taxes, so they can hire people to further oppress you.

[Deepinthailand]

Legal/not legal  or

Caught/not Caught

Keep your own council don't tell the world or thai visa readers what you are doing. 

Why shine a light on your life for others to put you back in the dark.

Will always ask questions on here to those in the know. But will never say what I do or when. But I might throw a few red herrings into the mix every now and then. Just because this is a so called anonymous forum do you really think you can't be traced!!!!!!

[pauleddy]

I'm still as confused as before: do I need to get a WP only when I have an employer? What if I want to teach English as paid work in homes or my home? Some people seem to do that without trouble but I believe they are on dodgy ground.

 

Re. the 8 hours a week or less: this is, evidently, a fairly common fallacy, it seems. I say that because 3 or 4 older farangs have informed me that I can work on that basis: "oh yes, you can do most things if it's under 8 hours"...seems to be an idea which has done the rounds for a while. It may be BS, but I was given this advice several times when not even asking about it! In a bar or someplace. I was quite surprised myself!

 

To stir the pot more: I have a friend who does paid work editing/proofing in a Thai Government Dept, for 2 or 3 hours a week or ad-hoc. She has never been asked to get a WP in six years. This must be because Gvment Depts can do as they please.

 

Do we get deported or just fined if we teach for money on a small-time basis, or if we work as a charity thing? I know somebody who teaches Hill Tribe kids for free. I'm 99% sure he doesn't have a WP.

 

Eddy

[laislica]

6 hours ago, pauleddy said:

I'm still as confused as before: do I need to get a WP only when I have an employer? What if I want to teach English as paid work in homes or my home? Some people seem to do that without trouble but I believe they are on dodgy ground.

 

Re. the 8 hours a week or less: this is, evidently, a fairly common fallacy, it seems. I say that because 3 or 4 older farangs have informed me that I can work on that basis: "oh yes, you can do most things if it's under 8 hours"...seems to be an idea which has done the rounds for a while. It may be BS, but I was given this advice several times when not even asking about it! In a bar or someplace. I was quite surprised myself!

 

To stir the pot more: I have a friend who does paid work editing/proofing in a Thai Government Dept, for 2 or 3 hours a week or ad-hoc. She has never been asked to get a WP in six years. This must be because Gvment Depts can do as they please.

 

Do we get deported or just fined if we teach for money on a small-time basis, or if we work as a charity thing? I know somebody who teaches Hill Tribe kids for free. I'm 99% sure he doesn't have a WP.

 

Eddy

 

I think that all your points but one, have been answered by various posters.

There is no "Below 8 hours waiver".

 

The only outstanding question seems to be

<Snip> Do we get deported or just fined if we teach for money on a small-time basis, or if we work as a charity thing? <Snip>

Joe, what happens if someone is caught working without a WP?

[ubonjoe]

From the Working Alien Act. 

 

Quote

Section 51. An alien who engages in work without having the
permit shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of not exceeding five years or to a
fine from two thousand Baht to one hundred thousand Baht or to both.
In the case where the accused under paragraph one wilfully departs the
Kingdom within the period specified by the inquiry official, but not more than thirty
days, the inquiry official may settle the case and causes that alien to depart the
Kingdom.

Source: http://thailawonline.com/en/thai-laws/laws-of-thailand/371-working-of-alien-actbe-2551-2008.html

[laislica]

On 23/08/2016 at 11:11 AM, ubonjoe said:

From the Working Alien Act. 

 

Source: http://thailawonline.com/en/thai-laws/laws-of-thailand/371-working-of-alien-actbe-2551-2008.html

 

He he, this is the bit I quote to my wife when I can't help with household chores, paint the house etc. LOL

 

Section 5. In this Act:
“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality;
“Work” means engaging in work by exerting energy or using
knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;

[thaibeachlovers]

On 22 สิงหาคม 2559 at 11:18 AM, ubonjoe said:

You can start working again after being on an extension of stay based upon working again. It is certainly not illegal. You can also use tourist visas or any other visa if you want to.

The hard part of doing the change is doing a work permit application that will be needed to get a non-b visa. You will likely have to leave to get a tourist visa or a visa exempt entry to apply for the work permit.

 

The following from your post is utter nonsense. You cannot do any work without a work permit. You will also not get a work permit for working only 8 hours a week.

"Some people say that I can work on a Ret extn if it's under 8 hours a week. This is quite a popular notion! Is it legal? Must it be for charity? Can I get a Wk permit for under 8 hours anyway, for paid work??"

 

 

 

He doesn't say if he is married. I understand that one can work on a marriage extension. If that is correct and he is that would be the easiest solution.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, laislica said:

 

He he, this is the bit I quote to my wife when I can't help with household chores, paint the house etc. LOL

 

Section 5. In this Act:
“Alien” means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality;
“Work” means engaging in work by exerting energy or using
knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;

It doesn't apply when doing work for the family or yourself in the family HOME. Otherwise lots of farangs would be banged up for buying tools.

[laislica]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He doesn't say if he is married. I understand that one can work on a marriage extension. If that is correct and he is that would be the easiest solution.

 

I think that you are referring to the fact that on a retirement extension a WP is never available.

Whereas, on a marriage extension, a WP can be granted.

You still need a WP.

 

BTW, we must take our hats of to Joe,

how does he find all these laws, read and understand them and remember what he has read!

Thanks Joe and well done, where would we be without you!

[laislica]

Of course, work permits are not free:

From the source quoted by Joe:

(Unofficial translation

 WORKING OF ALIEN ACT,
B.E. 2551 (2008)
BHUMIBOL ADULYADEJ, REX.)

 

Rate of Fees
(1) The permit each 20,000 Baht
(2) Renewal of the permit each time 20,000 Baht
(3) Substitution of the permit each 3,000 Baht
(4) Permission to change or add category of work,
employer, working area or work place or
working conditions as permitted each time
5,000
Baht
(5) Levy for hiring of alien other than skilled
worker or expert per person
10,000
Baht
(6) Submission of an application each 1,000 Baht

[laislica]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It doesn't apply when doing work for the family or yourself in the family HOME. Otherwise lots of farangs would be banged up for buying tools.

 

Shhhh, don't let my Missus hear that LOL

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, laislica said:

Of course, work permits are not free:

From the source quoted by Joe:

(Unofficial translation

 WORKING OF ALIEN ACT,
B.E. 2551 (2008)
BHUMIBOL ADULYADEJ, REX.)

 

Rate of Fees
(1) The permit each 20,000 Baht
(2) Renewal of the permit each time 20,000 Baht
(3) Substitution of the permit each 3,000 Baht
(4) Permission to change or add category of work,
employer, working area or work place or
working conditions as permitted each time
5,000
Baht
(5) Levy for hiring of alien other than skilled
worker or expert per person
10,000
Baht
(6) Submission of an application each 1,000 Baht

I think you need to go back and read the act again. Work permits valid for one year are 3000 baht.

[laislica]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you need to go back and read the act again. Work permits valid for one year are 3000 baht.

 

The fees I quoted are the only values mentioned in the document.

They are right at the end of the document.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, laislica said:

 

The fees I quoted are the only values mentioned in the document.

They are right at the end of the document.

 

 

Those are the maxim fees that can be charged as set by the act. In reality it is 3000 baht and a 100 baht application fee at this time.

Just below what you posted is this.

 

Quote

In the enactment of the Ministerial Regulation prescribing fees, the fees to be
prescribed may be different with due regard to nature of work or both nature and
working area of alien.

 

[laislica]

16 minutes ago, laislica said:

 

The fees I quoted are the only values mentioned in the document.

They are right at the end of the document.

 

 

Those are the maxim fees that can be charged as set by the act. In reality it is 3000 baht and a 100 baht application fee at this time.

Just below what you posted is this.

 

Quote

In the enactment of the Ministerial Regulation prescribing fees, the fees to be
prescribed may be different with due regard to nature of work or both nature and
working area of alien.

 

Thanks Joe, you've done it again.....

Your knowledge enables you to interpret these tricky laws exactly...

Cheers