Learning Thai: What´s the point ...?

[farang95]

On 8/22/2016 at 1:00 PM, Scotwight said:

I've been getting retirement extensions for 10 years - the immigration guy told me if I didn't speak Thai he'd think I was retarded (bun ya on).

 

On 8/22/2016 at 11:29 PM, Lampang2 said:

Reading Thai is crucial.

Very very often I think I can hear how to pronounce a word by just listening to it.

But when I read it I see things I did not hear. And listening once again after reading the word I hear the details I initially missed.

 

 

 

 

On 8/23/2016 at 2:36 AM, zombie nights said:

OP: you raise an interesting question.  However, not sure this sub forum is where to raise it as most here have decided to learn Thai so will obviously suggest u do pursue with the language.

If you can learn the Thai language to be able to communicate  in real life good enough to converse with the Thais at most levels then good for you and irt will of been worthwhile your learning efforts.

I have been trying to learn Thai for several years: school, private tutor, on line, self study etc.

Often devoted many hours every week.

But then i am still in the situation that most of the time still I am clueless as to what the Thais are saying, though sometimes they are speaking in Isaan dialect et al.

So i need to ask myself do i want to waste any more of my time trying to learn it; for important matters I have enough trustworthy Thai people who can speak/ negotiate on my behalf.

 

 

On 8/23/2016 at 0:02 PM, Bob9 said:

IMO dont waste your time and money formally learning Thai. Just learn a bit here and there as you go along - get the numbers first and then the common phrases. Many expats think they can speak Thai coorectly, but to the Thais they sound the same as those Thais singing English songs - silly.  Learn some Thai to speak  (dont bother reading) and Thais will like it you tried - but you will never be able to speak it correctly - it just doesnt work. Thais wont tell you that you sound like a silly fool trying to speak Thai fluently - but they are right. Think of it this way - how do Thais who can speak English very well sound when they try to pronounce some sounds in English that dont exists in Thai - like "L" or "V".  Well in Thai there are many many many more sounds and tones that English speakers just cannot learn (unless start young). Ther is a guy who has a web site that has videos where he speaks Thai - the wife and her family (very reluctantly) say he sounds silly - but they understand him - mostly. 

AND - the reality is that Thailand is an English second language country - there is no need to learn Thai (much). Look at any Thai's ID card or driver's licence - it is in Thai and English. Same for road signs etc etc etc. If you only read and speak German/French - then you are in trouble long term - but English is all you need to live in Thailand.  BUT - learn what you can and use it (sparingly) - Thais appreciate Expats that try to learn the basics (and are more friendly and helpful to them)..

 

On 8/23/2016 at 0:43 PM, tgeezer said:

I have been coming to Thailand for over thirty years and am still very lazy about tones vowel length etc. basically all the non English aspects of Thai. In conversation it is accepted but when I am asking questions saying things like บังครั้ง instead of บางครั้ง, หรือใหม่ I frustrate people. I get corrected and am on my best behaviour for a while but I lapse again, it's frustrating for me too then.
The original topic, เติมเงินเบอร์... needs to be rehearsed, then you need to be ready to replace เบอ with หมายเลกโทรศัพท์ if the first attempt didn't work, it gives them a second chance.

it is fascinating...... learning..is fascinating........

On 8/30/2016 at 7:21 PM, mm1ller said:

If you ever need friend to pratice Thai pm me. I'm Thai who learning English.

Obviously my grammar are bad though.

 

 

Ps. This forum look like a place for old farang vent

 

yeah.....to feel how frustrated they are is quiet sad....lot of them around...life is hard...we must remain calm to them ..... 

On 9/2/2016 at 9:52 AM, Johnniey said:

Learning Thai has enhanced my life here beyond words. Really, anyone saying is a waste of time has serious issues.

you deserve a hug ...and a pray for a long and happy life... Thanks  for your contribution

On 9/2/2016 at 11:41 AM, manfredtillmann said:

we all endeavour to fill our lives with the most rewarding stuffing.

'everything is a waste when you die?' Pythagoras, Euclid,  Albert Einstein, Werner von Braun, Michael Angelo, Picasso, ... some of us may be able to pass on a few morsels of our brain content to following generations - who do you bequeath your thai language skills to?

quoting you:

"Learning Thai has enhanced my life in Thailand enormously.

Quite obviously."

 

really? every word or phrase of 'thai' i have learned so far in the last 6 years has only led to solidifying my believe that thais know very little about anything, that they have a completely in - adequate education and that, as a culture and society, they are doomed to  be extinct soon.

over to you, lampang2 - dreamer.

cheers

mft

 

 

any moderator ? maybe you are one? a vote here should be interesting how could we let someone here...yeah internet is free....but how could we allow such disrespect for who ? who are you ?  all the language from earth are beautiful ...... the fact that you don't like the language....and probably don't like the people..... the thai people? can you imagine what we can think of you ? 6 years? is it enough to make a statement? this is hilarious ... and very funny....... but i just react.... most of the time ...as a thai lover... yeah i love thai people...i will remain calm to you ..... and say ...stay who you are..... but.....don't give bad vibe to the rest of the lover of this beautiful country.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

When someone like that in thailand say rude term.....his words are very violent ........ and you need to calm down right? ok let's just say to him : บ่เป็นหยังดอก.....then you move on .....you keep the smile....you keep the joy in your heart ....And there is no one who can stop you from learning .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bob9]

16 hours ago, farang95 said:

 

it is fascinating...... learning..is fascinating........

yeah.....to feel how frustrated they are is quiet sad....lot of them around...life is hard...we must remain calm to them ..... 

you deserve a hug ...and a pray for a long and happy life... Thanks  for your contribution

any moderator ? maybe you are one? a vote here should be interesting how could we let someone here...yeah internet is free....but how could we allow such disrespect for who ? who are you ?  all the language from earth are beautiful ...... the fact that you don't like the language....and probably don't like the people..... the thai people? can you imagine what we can think of you ? 6 years? is it enough to make a statement? this is hilarious ... and very funny....... but i just react.... most of the time ...as a thai lover... yeah i love thai people...i will remain calm to you ..... and say ...stay who you are..... but.....don't give bad vibe to the rest of the lover of this beautiful country.....

 

When someone like that in thailand say rude term.....his words are very violent ........ and you need to calm down right? ok let's just say to him : บ่เป็นหยังดอก.....then you move on .....you keep the smile....you keep the joy in your heart ....And there is no one who can stop you from learning .....

 

 

I must say, when I read your post I said to myself ....  <deleted>?  and then ............OMG ?!  

 

You included my post and the posts of 7 others.  I am OK to be 'grouped' in your list - they all seem like relevant opinions to me.  Which brings me to why I bothered responding to your post - here is some advice for you:

 

This is a Forum for Expats, and although I agree with your view that it is 'offensive' to abuse and belittle Thais like some posters here do, I do not consider it 'offensive' to state that there is no need to learn Thai (and to provide reasons for that opinion).  

 

It seems to me that you need to take your own medicine - you need to be less 'angry' and less 'intolerant' of other people's opinions that are clearly not deliberately offensive. And while there are clearly 'farangs' on TV Forums that are looking for reasons to criticise and belittle Thai people and culture, I am not one of those.  Take it easy and stop looking for offense - read our posts again - you may find it is only the opinions of Expats who are talking about learning Thai (having do so for some time) - no offence meant.  My Thai wife and I speak English to each other - is that OK for you???    

 

[brewsterbudgen]

I wish I could improve my Thai from the very rudimentary level it is, after 12 years of living here. However, fortunately it is more than easy to live in Bangkok with only the very basics.

[farang95]

4 hours ago, Bob9 said:

 

I must say, when I read your post I said to myself ....  <deleted>?  and then ............OMG ?!  

 

You included my post and the posts of 7 others.  I am OK to be 'grouped' in your list - they all seem like relevant opinions to me.  Which brings me to why I bothered responding to your post - here is some advice for you:

 

This is a Forum for Expats, and although I agree with your view that it is 'offensive' to abuse and belittle Thais like some posters here do, I do not consider it 'offensive' to state that there is no need to learn Thai (and to provide reasons for that opinion).  

 

It seems to me that you need to take your own medicine - you need to be less 'angry' and less 'intolerant' of other people's opinions that are clearly not deliberately offensive. And while there are clearly 'farangs' on TV Forums that are looking for reasons to criticise and belittle Thai people and culture, I am not one of those.  Take it easy and stop looking for offense - read our posts again - you may find it is only the opinions of Expats who are talking about learning Thai (having do so for some time) - no offence meant.  My Thai wife and I speak English to each other - is that OK for you???    

 

interesting reply ..... yeah i guess ..... you are right....you can be an expat? or a tourist? or a future expat? or just  a curious of the country..you can have your own judgement ...but in my opinion .... this is very fascinating ...because i do believe that when you go somewhere you adapt yourself to the environment .....6 years of a lifetime isn't enough in my opinion to make a statement the way he did ..... but it is just my opinion ...and most important.... in my opinion ....a language is very difficult to learn........ very very difficult....so i understand that some people may never be able to learn the language...it is too much complicate for them and because of that ....you better just admit..that you just can't learn the language because you don't have the talent to ...it is ok man no problem .....admit your weakness....but saying it is useless.....i better no say more....i know that the people who love the country...... who try to make it better...who try to be good to the people...... they won't mind such negative mind..... your wife and you speak english ? it is good..... she know you can't be that good ...she make the effort......what can i say......send her my best regards.

[Ahab]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 9:48 PM, innocenthai said:

Be careful, you might know soon how uninteresting and boring are these people who have nothing to talk about except what they just ate and what they will eat...

 

 

Sounds like the vast majority of people in the United States (and just for the record I am an American so this is not bashing...or maybe it is).

 

 

[Ahab]

I think it is important to make the effort and learn the language in any country you plan on living in. How do you guys feel about immigrants coming to your home country and not learning your language? I would wager that things such as it is not important or it is a waste of time would not be among the most popular replies.

 

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Bob9]

On 20/09/2016 at 7:55 PM, farang95 said:

interesting reply ..... yeah i guess ..... you are right....you can be an expat? or a tourist? or a future expat? or just  a curious of the country..you can have your own judgement ...but in my opinion .... this is very fascinating ...because i do believe that when you go somewhere you adapt yourself to the environment .....6 years of a lifetime isn't enough in my opinion to make a statement the way he did ..... but it is just my opinion ...and most important.... in my opinion ....a language is very difficult to learn........ very very difficult....so i understand that some people may never be able to learn the language...it is too much complicate for them and because of that ....you better just admit..that you just can't learn the language because you don't have the talent to ...it is ok man no problem .....admit your weakness....but saying it is useless.....i better no say more....i know that the people who love the country...... who try to make it better...who try to be good to the people...... they won't mind such negative mind..... your wife and you speak english ? it is good..... she know you can't be that good ...she make the effort......what can i say......send her my best regards.

fair enough - point taken - and regards passed.

 

[paul18620]

mods just close this topic as its irrelevant now 

[anotheruser]

On 9/3/2016 at 2:19 PM, 55Jay said:

Yes, a no brainer. 

 

My stark realization came to a head 2 weeks ago as I went alone (without the Mrs) to the IT Mall to find some of that thermal paste stuff you put on the computer chip processor.   Jesus H Christopher Cross, what a pain in the a$$, and obviously I should of looked up some reference before I went but didn't.  

 

I felt like (and was) a helpless moron fumble fking my way through with a couple young computer repair guys who seemed willing to help point me in the right direction.  CPU.  OK, they thought I wanted to buy one.  No....  Then I'm saying Paste, and doing the hand motions for a toothbrush and brushing of teeth.  CPU + brushing teeth (paste).  "Lon".  "Yen".  They said Silicone.  No, "paste".  (They probably call silicone and I was confusing things even more).  I was saying hot/cold, so he held up a computer fan cooling unit.  This?  No....  Damn!    We finally got it after 10 minutes, they showed me a small syringe with the white paste/silicon. Yes, yes, that's it!  They pointed me downstairs toward the Amorn shop and said it was 50 Baht - I can understand numbers/currency. OK great!    I found Amorn and wandered around for 15 minutes, obviously looking for something to no avail.  The Thai staff would avert their eyes when I looked at them, didn't want to engage clumsily with a farang.  Finally found it, but when I walked out of there, that's when it really hit me, that I've wasted so much time and still faffing about for the simplest of things without my wife, the Thai security blanket, along to bail me out. 

 

After my post yesterday, looked up the small Thai language school my buddy went to when he got here.  It's a 20-25 minute car drive into the city/suburbs for me, but I've got nothing else to do except make more excuses and keep being a helpless idiot.  I don't need to be a PhD, but man, I've got to sort myself out if I'm going to keep living here.

 

Not really as good as learning Thai but when I have something odd I need I use a smart phone. I do not look up they Thai word as it is easier to just use an image from google. Thermal cpu paste you say? 

 

I never even knew what you were looking for is but this is pretty clear to anybody. I have found this method eliminates any problems trying to learn words and difficult to find items. I have used the dictionary and shown them Thai words or spoke Thai words but sometimes the dictionaries are so inaccurate that you can't beat a picture. 

 

Don't get me wrong I know a fair amount of Thai but can't be bothered to learn every specialty term known to man kind. 

Edited September 30, 2016 by anotheruser

[55Jay]

26 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

Not really as good as learning Thai but when I have something odd I need I use a smart phone. I do not look up they Thai word as it is easier to just use an image from google. Thermal cpu paste you say? 

 

I never even knew what you were looking for is but this is pretty clear to anybody. I have found this method eliminates any problems trying to learn words and difficult to find items. I have used the dictionary and shown them Thai words or spoke Thai words but sometimes the dictionaries are so inaccurate that you can't beat a picture. 

 

Don't get me wrong I know a fair amount of Thai but can't be bothered to learn every specialty term known to man kind. 

You're right, of course, but more broadly, I don't know a fair bit of Thai, and it was just another example of how I struggle with the simplest of things here without Mama along to help out.   Which has an impact of my state of mind as long as I am living here.   Not a revelation, just took me a while to get off my arse and do something about it. 

 

 

[anotheruser]

With a smart phone you can essentially get by and learn Thai when you want to. The days of needing foreign languages for basic survival are about done. These days learning languages is more about satisfaction and curiosity. I am not great at Thai but am somewhat bemused by people that wouldn't even know their own name after decades. Surely even with out effort people must pick up some of it? I guess some people have no curiosity at all.

[55Jay]

28 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

With a smart phone you can essentially get by and learn Thai when you want to. The days of needing foreign languages for basic survival are about done. These days learning languages is more about satisfaction and curiosity. I am not great at Thai but am somewhat bemused by people that wouldn't even know their own name after decades. Surely even with out effort people must pick up some of it? I guess some people have no curiosity at all.

Sure, I have picked up some Thai by exposure, as I have with other langs in other countries I've lived/worked in - Thailand's just the latest one.   The only language I've ever studied at school was Spanish, which made sense in San Diego, California, and did come in handy on several occasions.  Thai seems a lot more finicky to learn, but I don't have any desire to be fluent, no plans to work or engage in Thai society any more than I do now, and fair odds we'll leave Thailand at some point.   But, as long as we're living here for the foreseeable future, might as well try to get beyond survival mode.  Not like I have anything else to do, so why not.  

[anotheruser]

There was a time when I was broke living in Thailand maybe 15 years ago and poured hours everyday into reading and writing. Good way to kill time. Some people do crossword puzzles or play games like bejewelled and such. I always thought if you are going to do those type of things why not learn something. Some people doodle and so do I but in my case I was doodling Japanese characters and it was satisfying and fun.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by anotheruser

[55Jay]

6 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

There was a time when I was broke living in Thailand maybe 15 years ago and poured hours everyday into reading and writing. Good way to kill time. Some people do crossword puzzles or play games like bejewelled and such. I always thought if you are going to do those type of things why not learn something. Some people doodle and so do I but in my case I was doodling Japanese characters and it was satisfying and fun.

I dabbled with Japanese when I was stationed on a ship in Yokosuka in my late teens/early 20s.   Nothing serious, just enough to get around, play with the girls, memorized Sukiyaki to sing at karaoke,  able to recognize my home train station - which was something like, "Skinny lady, fat man, watching television". 

 

[anotheruser]

I went to full time language school in Japan to get a visa to stay there. Guys who think the hours are tough and classes here in Thailand are expensive should think again. Was around $12,000 a year and you had to attend 4 hours a day 5 days per week if you wanted any chance of renewal. The course was 2 years in length. Sometimes i wish I had those hours back lol This is part of the reason I won't devote myself to learning Thai in the same way. As soon as you leave Thailand you will be visiting Thai restaurants in another country to have any hope of using this skill. 

 

Now we are off topic though. 

[55Jay]

1 minute ago, anotheruser said:

I went to full time language school in Japan to get a visa to stay there. Guys who think the hours are tough and classes here in Thailand are expensive should think again. Was around $12,000 a year and you had to attend 4 hours a day 5 days per week if you wanted any chance of renewal. The course was 2 years in length. Sometimes i wish I had those hours back lol This is part of the reason I won't devote myself to learning Thai in the same way. As soon as you leave Thailand you will be visiting Thai restaurants in another country to have any hope of using this skill. 

 

Now we are off topic though. 

Agreed.  I just want to achieve a bit more independence in day to day life.    Nice chatting with you, take care.  J.

[Naam]

On 9/2/2016 at 4:18 PM, Lampang2 said:

Learning Thai has enhanced my life in Thailand enormously.
Quite obviously.

since i moved to Thailand my life has improved enormously without speaking more Thai than a few polite phrases and numbers. in our home five different languages are used daily to communicate (not included the language our dogs speak). none of the languages is Thai and nobody is affected in a negative way by that fact. not even my [not so] humble self because i only master three out of the above-mentioned five but of course i am "fluent" in dog language.

 

quite obviously

[tgeezer]

There is a Thai saying เกิด ป่วย เจ็บ ตาย, birth, discomfort, pain, death. The cycle of life. We have choices to make during this seemingly pointless existence, where we have a choice, we do things because we think that we will enjoy doing them.
I spend almost half the year in Thailand and find Thai enjoyable because life is simpler and more tranquil in Thai. I think that I tend to live in my own idealised bubble of Thailand where all is politeness and consideration for society. Anything serious like being fined at immigration brings me back to an English speaking World where I say as little as I can get away with.



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[farang95]

learning thai is fun but at first...it is not..definitely not...new alphabet...new grammar....your brain is like....come on you can't do it...give up ...you can't...don't do it...you can't......yeah i can try ...no you can't...come on ..;let's try a bit...one word at a time....one sentence at a time.......one hour at a time.....and then ...You realize that you definitely can do a bit of effort and a bit of progress every time you learn...and you will feel very very happy and very very proud of yourself ......

[xkkpafi]

Think of learning Thai like this:

 

-There is obviously the well posted advantage of being to communicate with Thais, except those in touristy areas that insist that their 'tingalit' is superior to your efforts to learn Thai. But in addition think of this:

- You are learning one of the most interesting and richest languages in the world.

- You are living ancient history by being  in touch with an amazing linguistic evolution of a language with its foundations in ancient languages such as Pali and Sanskrit.

- You are becoming a bit of an expert in Thai grammar and probably ending up with more knowledge about the language than the average guy leaving school in Thailand. Ask any kid who has left school in Europe a few weeks ago how to distinguish between

present perfect, past perfect and future perfect then they, probably like Thai kids, would have forgotten everything, despite using these structures several hundred times a day without thinking about it. My two kids used to say to me, as they prattled on in perfect, fluent Thai, "father, why do you bother with all that studying of tones, tone marks, structure, consonant classes, vowel duration, classifiers and so on" and I would say in jest "because its going to make me a Thai language expert, which is not what you are".

 

Farang95 is dead right, when it works, you feel great, and its really worth the effort. If they shoot you down or blank you out, don't be alarmed. Its more often or not a sort of intolerance on behalf of the occasional Thai you meet, but I think you find this kind of attitude mainly in touristy places and bus stations where they think that their command of 'tingalit' is worthy of a Nobel prize in literature. But if you are getting problems all the time, then you need to get together with your teacher and sort out, in particular, tones and vowel durations.