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[webfact]

Turkey sends more tanks to Syria, insists on Kurdish retreat

By SUZAN FRASER and SARAH EL DEEB

 

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Turkey sent more tanks into northern Syria on Thursday and gave Syrian Kurdish forces a week to scale back their presence near the Turkish border, a day after it launched a U.S.-backed cross-border incursion to establish a frontier zone free of the Islamic State group and Kurdish rebels.

 

Skirmishes broke out between Turkish-backed Syrian rebels and the U.S.-backed Kurdish fighters, raising the potential for an all-out confrontation between the two American allies that would also jeopardize the fight against the Islamic State group in the volatile area.

 

Turkey's incursion Wednesday to capture the town of Jarablus was a dramatic escalation of Turkey's role in Syria's war and adds yet another powerhouse force on the ground in an already complicated conflict.

 

But Ankara's objective went beyond fighting extremists. Turkey is also aiming to contain the expansion by Syria's Kurds, who have used the fight against IS and the chaos of Syria's civil war to seize nearly the entire stretch of territory along Syria's northern border with Turkey.

 

Above all, Ankara seeks to avoid Kurdish forces linking up their strongholds along the border. The U.S. has backed its NATO ally, sending a stern warning to the Syrian Kurds with whom it has partnered in the fight against IS to stay east of the Euphrates River. The river crosses from Turkey into Syria at Jarablus.

 

"The U.S. is interested in stopping this from becoming a confrontation between the YPG and Turkey. That would be a huge detriment to the anti-IS campaign," said Chris Kozak, a Syria researcher at the Washington-based Institute of the Study of War, referring to the main U.S.-backed Kurdish faction fighting IS. Turkey accuses the group of links to Kurdish groups waging an insurgency in southeastern Turkey.

 

Kozak said an open confrontation between Turkey and the Kurds in Syria would undo much of the progress made working with the Kurdish forces against IS in northern Syria. If there are direct clashes, the U.S. would be forced to take sides, he said, and Washington would likely side with its NATO ally, whose air base is used to launch coalition airstrikes against the extremists in Syria and Iraq.

 

Also, if the Syrian Kurdish forces are distracted in clashes with the Turks and have to shift resources toward front lines with Turkey or with Turkish-backed opposition groups, that "buys (IS) some breathing space," Kozak said.

 

On Thursday, Turkish officials said Syrian Kurdish forces had started withdrawing east of the Euphrates River. The news was relayed by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry in a telephone conversation with his Turkish counterpart, Mevlut Cavusoglu, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity in line with government regulations.

 

Syrian Kurdish officials contacted by The Associated Press would not confirm or deny that their forces were withdrawing east. Instead, the main Syrian Kurdish faction, the YPG, said its troops had "returned to their bases" after helping liberate the northern Syrian city of Manbij from the Islamic State group earlier this month. Manbij lies west of the Euphrates about 30 kilometers (19 miles) from Jarablus, and Ankara has demanded the Kurds hand it over to Syrian rebels and withdraw.

 

The Kurdish forces' statement said they handed control of the city to a newly-established Manbij Military Council, made up mostly of Arab rebel fighters from the town.

 

By day break, at least 10 more Turkish tanks crossed into Syria, Turkey's private Dogan news agency reported. An Associated Press journalist saw three armored vehicles cross the border, followed by a heavy construction vehicle. Explosions reverberated across the border, followed by billowing gray smoke.

 

It remained unclear whether Turkey-backed Syrian rebels would move against IS-held towns or nearby Kurdish-controlled areas, including the town of Manbij.

 

Turkey's state-run Anadolu agency, reporting from Jarablus, said the Syrian opposition forces were working to secure the town to allow its resident's to return, including defusing explosives inside the town or on roads leading to it. Estimates put the town's population at 25,000.

 

Turkey's defense minister, Fikri Isik, said Thursday that Turkish forces were securing the area around Jarablus. He said the Turkish-backed operation had two main goals — to secure the Turkish border area and to make sure the Syrian Kurdish forces "are not there."

"It's our right to remain there until" the Ankara-backed Syrian opposition forces take control of the area, Isik said. He said Turkey and the U.S. have agreed that the Syrian Kurdish forces would pull out of the northern area around Jarablus within a week.

 

"For now, the withdrawal hasn't fully taken place. We are waiting for it and following it," he told the private NTV television station.

 

A spokesman for the U.S.-led anti-IS coalition, Col. JD Dorrian, said some members of the force that seized control of Manbij went east of the river, but some remained to secure and clear land mines.

 

Meanwhile, the Syrian Kurdish forces appeared to be on the move south of the newly captured town of Jarablus, making the potential for all-out confrontation all the more possible overnight. The Kurdish-led group known as the Syria Democratic Forces, or SDF, was advancing south of Jarablus, taking over at least three towns in what appeared to be a push by the Kurdish-led forces to secure Manbij and the river separating it from Jarablus. The advances triggered brief clashes with the Turkish-backed Syrian rebels who had advanced south of Jarablus.

 

Sharwan Darwish, a spokesperson for the SDF-affiliated Manbij Military Council, said there were no direct confrontations, only warning shots. A Turkish official said he had no immediate comment on the reported clashes.

 

Meanwhile, U.N. officials said they had received word from Russia that it supports a 48-hour pause in fighting in and around Syria's largest city so that humanitarian aid can be delivered to its increasingly embattled population.

 

Jan Egeland, who heads up humanitarian aid in the office of the U.N. Syria envoy, said the U.N. now awaits assurances from two rebel groups and written authorization from President Bashar Assad's government before any aid convoys can go through to Aleppo amid an upsurge in fighting that has left the city nearly surrounded by Russian-backed Syrian troops.

 

Egeland said Russia backs a three-point U.N. plan that is to involve separate road convoys of aid delivered both from Damascus and across the Turkish border through the critical Castello Road artery into Aleppo.

 

"We are very hopeful that it will be a very short time until we can roll," Egeland told reporters.

___

El Deeb reported from Beirut. Associated Press writers Mucahit Ceylan in Karkamis, Philip Issa and Zeina Karam in Beirut, and Jamey Keaten in Geneva contributed to this report.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-08-26

[ivan96822]

Defeat ISIS at whatever cost it takes to save the innocents and eliminate the terrorists...

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, ivan96822 said:

Defeat ISIS at whatever cost it takes to save the innocents and eliminate the terrorists...

You mean like what the Kurds are doing?

[Alive]

Isn't this also about crushing the Kurds too. Seems Turkey's dictator is going to go for it all now. I don't know much about the Cypress conflict but would Turkey want to take that island? This dictator probably could get it done.

[Grouse]

Has anyone in Washington thought this through? Or is it business as usual? Seems to me that there is a Golden opportunity here. Do I need to spell it out?

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Grouse said:

Has anyone in Washington thought this through? Or is it business as usual? Seems to me that there is a Golden opportunity here. Do I need to spell it out?

You do.

[Grouse]

Well, it seems to me that the whole ME is a basket case. Poor decisions have been taken over the last couple of centuries and the situation has been exacerbated since the last war.

 

Here is an opportunity to create a new state at the centre which can be set up and supported properly from the get go. 

 

I am of course thinking about Kurdistan, with Mosul as a capital. Land taken from Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria. Member of NATO.

 

Cut support for Turkey, Saudi, Israel, Iraq and others.

 

I would give them a corridor to the Med also.

 

What do you men of iron think?

 

[craigt3365]

100 likes for that!

[Galactus]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

You mean like what the Kurds are doing?

 

from OP: 'Syria's Kurds, who have used the fight against IS and the chaos of Syria's civil war to seize nearly the entire stretch of territory along Syria's northern border with Turkey. '

 

no, kurds are using the the fight with ISIS as a leverage and western popularity for their hidden agendas.

and using the chaos there to grab lands belong to others and changing the demographics of Northern Syria.

with a dream of creating  a belt of kurdish state starting from Northern Iraq all the way through Turkish Syrian border to Mediterranean to aces to seas and to have a port.

and all nations there know it and that is why kurds are shafted hard again one more time.

 

why turks dont go contain Northern Iraq Kurds? can you give an answer? dont think so.

but let me do it for you,  Iraqi kurds are not hostile and they do not have absurd dreams to follow like Syrian kurds like creating a belt along turkish border and they have good relationship with their neighbors like turkey and iran and they are allies with their neighbors instead of US.

 

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Well, it seems to me that the whole ME is a basket case. Poor decisions have been taken over the last couple of centuries and the situation has been exacerbated since the last war.

 

Here is an opportunity to create a new state at the centre which can be set up and supported properly from the get go. 

 

I am of course thinking about Kurdistan, with Mosul as a capital. Land taken from Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria. Member of NATO.

 

Cut support for Turkey, Saudi, Israel, Iraq and others.

 

I would give them a corridor to the Med also.

 

What do you men of iron think?

 

 

That Turkey (member of NATO) would not agree and would go to war against the new state of Kurdistan.  Turkey would be supported by whatever "strange bedfellows" that war throws up. 

 

Which side should the other members of NATO support?

 

Now what about the other nations (with Kurdish minorities) who might not take too well to the loss of territory?

 

Oh I get it, a new general war in the ME, perhaps leaving NATOs Southern flank wide open to peace loving Russia, or maybe creating an alliance between Turkey, Russia and the other nations that you seek to disposess. 

 

That would certainly sort out the "basket case".

Edited August 26, 2016 by Enoon

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Well, it seems to me that the whole ME is a basket case. Poor decisions have been taken over the last couple of centuries and the situation has been exacerbated since the last war.

 

Here is an opportunity to create a new state at the centre which can be set up and supported properly from the get go. 

 

I am of course thinking about Kurdistan, with Mosul as a capital. Land taken from Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria. Member of NATO.

 

Cut support for Turkey, Saudi, Israel, Iraq and others.

 

I would give them a corridor to the Med also.

 

What do you men of iron think?

 

As nice as it would be to have an independent Kurdistan, I can only imagine the chaos that ensue.   The Turks, the Iraqis, the Iranians and what is left of Syria are not going to allow this to happen.  

 

Anything that even hints at increased power to the Kurds is going to send Turkey into a fit of rage of epic proportions.  

 

 

 

 

[Steely Dan]

21 minutes ago, Scott said:

As nice as it would be to have an independent Kurdistan, I can only imagine the chaos that ensue.   The Turks, the Iraqis, the Iranians and what is left of Syria are not going to allow this to happen.  

 

Anything that even hints at increased power to the Kurds is going to send Turkey into a fit of rage of epic proportions.  

 

 

 

 

If this guy is even partly right the Kurds do have allies in favour of a Kurdish state, to automatically look at this through the optic of a western centric lens may be looking in the wrong place.

 

http://www.thomaswictor.com/national-suicide/

[simple1]

28 minutes ago, Scott said:

As nice as it would be to have an independent Kurdistan, I can only imagine the chaos that ensue.   The Turks, the Iraqis, the Iranians and what is left of Syria are not going to allow this to happen.  

 

Anything that even hints at increased power to the Kurds is going to send Turkey into a fit of rage of epic proportions.  

 

 

Plus the US has already warned the Kurds they are supporting against Daesh in Syria / Iraq they will not support such an endeavour and in fact would withdraw military assistance.

[Steely Dan]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Plus the US has already warned the Kurds they are supporting against Daesh in Syria / Iraq they will not support such an endeavour and in fact would withdraw military assistance.

And what a shameful way to treat a supposed ally active in fighting IS, as oppose to Turkey who have periodically colluded with them. Perhaps the small matter of the extradition request for Gulen can be dropped in return for services rendered.

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/analysis-syrian-kurds-left-dark-allies-abandon-them-en-mass-447527904

 

Still I suspect the Kurds are aware of the way the current U.S administration operates and are thus cooperating with Arab special forces in fighting IS, whether they can expect any better outcome from them remains to be seen.

[simple1]

3 minutes ago, Steely Dan said:

And what a shameful way to treat a supposed ally active in fighting IS, as oppose to Turkey who have periodically colluded with them. Perhaps the small matter of the extradition request for Gulen can be dropped in return for services rendered.

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/analysis-syrian-kurds-left-dark-allies-abandon-them-en-mass-447527904

 

Still I suspect the Kurds are aware of the way the current U.S administration operates and are thus cooperating with Arab special forces in fighting IS, whether they can expect any better outcome from them remains to be seen.

 

I would assume the US policy is based upon the endeavour to deescalate the risk of additional conflict in the region as well as minimise infighting between the various Kurdish factions for land grab / power.

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, Galactus said:

 

from OP: 'Syria's Kurds, who have used the fight against IS and the chaos of Syria's civil war to seize nearly the entire stretch of territory along Syria's northern border with Turkey. '

 

no, kurds are using the the fight with ISIS as a leverage and western popularity for their hidden agendas.

and using the chaos there to grab lands belong to others and changing the demographics of Northern Syria.

with a dream of creating  a belt of kurdish state starting from Northern Iraq all the way through Turkish Syrian border to Mediterranean to aces to seas and to have a port.

and all nations there know it and that is why kurds are shafted hard again one more time.

 

why turks dont go contain Northern Iraq Kurds? can you give an answer? dont think so.

but let me do it for you,  Iraqi kurds are not hostile and they do not have absurd dreams to follow like Syrian kurds like creating a belt along turkish border and they have good relationship with their neighbors like turkey and iran and they are allies with their neighbors instead of US.

 

 

You are a Turk?

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, Scott said:

As nice as it would be to have an independent Kurdistan, I can only imagine the chaos that ensue.   The Turks, the Iraqis, the Iranians and what is left of Syria are not going to allow this to happen.  

 

Anything that even hints at increased power to the Kurds is going to send Turkey into a fit of rage of epic proportions.  

 

 

 

 

 

You are correct of course. However, WE dealt with the Ottomans and the situation is SO DIRE, that maybe this should be forced through if only to correct past cock-ups!

[Steely Dan]

We now live in a post-news age. News is either suppressed, filtered or fabricated to suit the narrative of various sides. With the above caveat I include this link, it is my hope that it's more true than not, in which cas the Turks are about to have their <deleted> handed to them.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/operation-drive-turkish/


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[craigt3365]

18 hours ago, Steely Dan said:

We now live in a post-news age. News is either suppressed, filtered or fabricated to suit the narrative of various sides. With the above caveat I include this link, it is my hope that it's more true than not, in which cas the Turks are about to have their <deleted> handed to them.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/operation-drive-turkish/


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Fits right in with your description of news.  Pick the right sources and you'll (generally) get good news.  Sadly, everybody has a bias.  Hard to ignore that.

 

https://lobelog.com/david-frums-sources/

 

 

Quote

 

You’d think a Senior Editor at a major national magazine might know to check out his sources. You’d think such a Serious Person would look into a blog that’s making a serious accusation against a reputable journalist. You’d think David Frum would know better. You’d be wrong.

 

 

[arjunadawn]

If any believes Turkey's pretense it should be abused in Turkey's very own fallacious reasoning- demanding Syria pull back its forces from inside its own border. This is a novel abuse of international law. Such weak assertions do not justify the military incursion into another state. But of course, it is for public not legal consumption because Turkey is backed by the US, notwithstanding their BS tapdance accusing the US of meddling in Turkey's fictitious coup.

 

Turkey does not want a Kurdish state, agreed. But they want to seize Syria as their own more. There have now been a number of false flags by Turkey to invade Syria evidenced and two that were clearly proven, including one from a few years ago where Turkish leaders were caught on tape planning a false flag to justify invading Syria. Sure, it does not mean this makes the present situation a false flag but the fact its not even deliberated suggests the degree of collusion with Turkish ambitions- clear throat, American Turkish ambitions.

 

It was always going to be Turkey, once it consolidated islamist power couched in nationalism, that moved toward Syria in stages. 1. Incursion then demand no fly area. 2. Replace DAESH as the legitimate claimant to a caliphate; a caliphate that the west will then trumpet as being the solution to the disparate jihadi problem.

 

There has rarely been such precision Machiavellian machinery in diplomatic military history. But when considers what [they] are aiming for, nothing less than total obfuscation and manipulation could achieve it. Turkey is full of feces.

 

[ilostmypassword]

8 hours ago, Steely Dan said:

We now live in a post-news age. News is either suppressed, filtered or fabricated to suit the narrative of various sides. With the above caveat I include this link, it is my hope that it's more true than not, in which cas the Turks are about to have their <deleted> handed to them.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/operation-drive-turkish/


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

The big problem with this posting is that it posits that Turkey does not have a formidable military.  And that is nonsense.

[Steely Dan]

The big problem with this posting is that it posits that Turkey does not have a formidable military.  And that is nonsense.

Since Erdogan came to power he repeatedly purged and undermined the military. Turkey undeniably has a large army, but in modern warfare technology is far more important. The interesting question is if Turkey suffers heavy losses will they retreat, escalate or even try to call NATO into bailing them out of the mess they created?


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[Galactus]

On 8/26/2016 at 6:32 PM, Grouse said:

 

You are a Turk?

 

nonsense question to ask in a thread. so as long as you started, are you an american 'grouse' or a colombian one or siberian?

personal questions, please use PM function.

 

but thank you very much. i am just a mere earthling.

 

it looks like turkish backed so caled free syrian army are going down more and captured most of the villages around there.

their nxt step will be going down South and west in the meantime until all syrian kurds are on the right side of euphrates river.

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Galactus

[Galactus]

20 hours ago, arjunadawn said:

If any believes Turkey's pretense it should be abused in Turkey's very own fallacious reasoning- demanding Syria pull back its forces from inside its own border. This is a novel abuse of international law. Such weak assertions do not justify the military incursion into another state. But of course, it is for public not legal consumption because Turkey is backed by the US, notwithstanding their BS tapdance accusing the US of meddling in Turkey's fictitious coup.

 

Turkey does not want a Kurdish state, agreed. But they want to seize Syria as their own more. There have now been a number of false flags by Turkey to invade Syria evidenced and two that were clearly proven, including one from a few years ago where Turkish leaders were caught on tape planning a false flag to justify invading Syria. Sure, it does not mean this makes the present situation a false flag but the fact its not even deliberated suggests the degree of collusion with Turkish ambitions- clear throat, American Turkish ambitions.

 

It was always going to be Turkey, once it consolidated islamist power couched in nationalism, that moved toward Syria in stages. 1. Incursion then demand no fly area. 2. Replace DAESH as the legitimate claimant to a caliphate; a caliphate that the west will then trumpet as being the solution to the disparate jihadi problem.

 

There has rarely been such precision Machiavellian machinery in diplomatic military history. But when considers what [they] are aiming for, nothing less than total obfuscation and manipulation could achieve it. Turkey is full of feces.

 

 

ISIS is killing turks in turkey by bombings, latest was a bombing in a weeding! which resulted on 55 death and 35 of them were kids below 12 years old. from the beginng of 2016, 21 turks were dead by stray rockets and mortars fired by ISIS.

moreover, Syrian kurds are just an extension of PKK which is a terrorist organization by UN and EU and directly and indirectly resulting deaths of innocents in turkey.

 

on top, turks are taking care 3 million and more migrant and they dont want more so they are trying to create a no fly buffer zone there for taking care of migrants in their own country which benefits EU too.

 

so Turks have all the international laws and support behind them for such an operation. But kurds? the have zero support towards their dream of creating a land through turkish syrian border all the way from Iraq to Mediterranean and no other country wants to accept this uber dream of course. maybe they have been fooled with this promise but anyway, no other country wants that.

 

your post is full of feces i believe most probably resulting on where you are coming from? and partial and non factual post. no words on iran, USA, Russia, UK, italy and other states with troops stationed in Syria?

no words on bloody ISIS you guys always complain? At least a country is going there doing something.

no words on bloody assad killing his own people with chemical weapons?

 

you know, i am sure it looks like it does not make any sense to you - maybe you are heartless or maybe dont care -  when 55 turks were killed in a wedding most of them are kids and 21 people killed with ISIS guns and millions of syrian migrants marching but sure it means something for turks as they live there! so they take action.

you dont agree, you can go sign up and join the ranks of Syrian kurds and fight against turks anytime if you have balls of course. Syiran kurds accept international fighters and lots of them in their ranks, like ISIS.

 

you must be happy as a country there with millennium of history on those lands is doing something to wipe out ISIS and Syrian Kurds killing or displacing locals in Syria to get their land for changing demographics of there, both of are terrorist organizations.

 

which one you choose? Syrian land in ISIS or terrorist Syrian kurds hand forever or turks temporarily?

as a lawful person, i choose turks over isis and terrorist syrian kurds any day.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Galactus

[Steely Dan]

Two thoughts spring to mind. Turkey has invaded the sovereign soil of another Country. In doing so those they characterize as terrorists are in fact freedom fighters. Isis may be the pretext for this invasion, but to clobber the Kurds is the motive. Here is a statement from U.S Centcom, it looks like they are walking back on support for Turkey's actions, very wise.




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[Galactus]

13 hours ago, Steely Dan said:

Two thoughts spring to mind. Turkey has invaded the sovereign soil of another Country. In doing so those they characterize as terrorists are in fact freedom fighters. Isis may be the pretext for this invasion, but to clobber the Kurds is the motive. Here is a statement from U.S Centcom, it looks like they are walking back on support for Turkey's actions, very wise.




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

and US and Russia and UK and other coalition forces? they invade Syria too then.

but i dont see you speaking about their invasion so you might be partial?

and you know if USA does not like it, they can pack and go home to USA. w..t...f they do in Syria anyway 11 000 km away from US soil?

this latest US reaction sounds like a carrot to kurds which are shafted hard but in reality, does not mean anything.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Galactus

[Galactus]

On 8/28/2016 at 2:13 PM, Steely Dan said:

We now live in a post-news age. News is either suppressed, filtered or fabricated to suit the narrative of various sides. With the above caveat I include this link, it is my hope that it's more true than not, in which cas the Turks are about to have their <deleted> handed to them.

http://www.thomaswictor.com/operation-drive-turkish/


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and you believe that source

posting such nonsense shows your intelligence clearly.

it sounds like a comedy text:)

Edited August 30, 2016 by Galactus