Need To Translate Offensive Phrase

[peefalang]

Hi, all! I need to translate the expression "<deleted> you!". I've already read this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=75144 and found http://www.insultmonger.com/swearing/thai.htm but I think the translation is much too literal and quite frankly stupid. I need something with the same shocking impact and intention, the same angry dismissive admonishment. In Thai, I doubt you use a verb + pronoun like the English expression, and maybe a prefix + noun like "aaai-heir" is used? The context is a Thai woman insulting her farang boyfriend, and I think "mai son jai leei" doesn't quite cut it.

Please note I don't think learning this would be "cool", so no stern lectures about inappropriateness, please. It's for a translation I'm working on. I've asked a few friends, but they don't want to tell me, because they say it's not polite. Well, duh, that's the whole point, translation is all about rendering equivalents in other languages, whether it's polite or offensive. I note myself Thais often use "<deleted>" as some cool hip slang, because they don't know the real power and inherent ugliness of the word. Thais in general and the intended Thai reader really need to *feel* in their own language its full potency and rawness. Thanks to everyone who might be able to help.

Edited November 24, 2006 by peefalang

[samran]

You say you are translating something. Maybe providing the entire paragraph can help give the context required.

Please though, lets keep this discusssion as above board as possible.

[peefalang]

You say you are translating something. Maybe providing the entire paragraph can help give the context required.

Please though, lets keep this discusssion as above board as possible.

Thanks, samran. The falang writes to his girlfriend how he is confused she sent him a lovely e-mail expressing her love and an SMS saying "<deleted> u!" around the same time. She wasn't making romantic overtures. :-) My impression is she has more than one boyfriend on the go and just sent the wrong SMS to the wrong guy, but that's purely speculation.

In Thai, are you more likely to call someone a name like "ai-sat" than give them a "command" like "<deleted> you" when you want to disrespect and insult them completely and utterly? Maybe insulting someone's family is more effective in Thai and using some variant of a "you descend from slaves" insult is appropriate?

[Insight]

Not sure how relevant it is to your situation, but ColPyat (I think - apologies if wrong) stated a good one to get yourself killed to in another thread a few months ago which basically said "you, of slaves blood".

Have a search for it, but probably more than wise to it a few thoughts before applying it

[Rikker]

Also, just to be clear about the translation of "<deleted> you" on that insultmonger site, it's not exactly verb+pronoun..

(Apologies in advance... I know this is a terrible thing to explicate)

It says "yet mang" which would be เย็ดแม่ง, not เย็ดมึง as it seems you interpreted it.

แม่ง is believed by some to come from แม่ + มึง (your mom), or I've also seen a claim it comes from แม่ + มัน, but it's not always used as if it literally means that. It's often a sort of profane intensifier. แม่งเบื่อ "I'm so f-in' bored.."

Still, I have no idea what would be the "right" thing to say in the situation you describe, so it's not like I'm advocating saying that.

I cringe at what would happen if my wife caught me actually using such language!

Edited November 24, 2006 by Rikker

[meadish_sweetball]

เย็ดแม่มึง is rude enough.

(My sincere apologies to anyone who is offended. The OP has stated his case well enough, and this merits a clear answer. I think Samran is correct that more context would be helpful. It is quite possible that a milder insult would work. How rude something is depends on the relation between the speaker and the receiver - age, status, intimity, and also the situation, of course.)

[peefalang]

Thanks Rikker, meadish_sweetball (love the name!) and Insight. Yes, Ritter, I've misinterpreted the verb + pronoun, so thanks for the clarification. I was also wrong to think the InsultMonger website rendered it too literally. As I was in a hurry, I decided to use "yet mae" before any of you posted your follow-up replies, but I think "yet maeng" is acutally better, personally.

My apologies in advance to the administrators if I've caused people to violate any TOS or to any Thais in general who are offended. I think it's important for Thais to learn how powerful English swearing can be, just like Thai swearing. It always irritates me when I hear vulgar cursing in movies, then skim the Thai subtitles and it's something quite mild or different. The other day I actually overheard a Thai on the Skytrain start using variations of <deleted>, s**t and and c**t (even more vulgar and offensive than <deleted>, perhaps the ugliest, harshest word in the English language) in equal measure to his falang friend. It was obvious the Thai thought it was hip slang, whereas the falang stood there looking rather aghast. And like most beginners, he had absolutely no idea how to use the words effectively and cohesively in combination, so he just sounded like a talking dictionary with Tourette Syndrome.

[manjara]

Thanks Rikker, meadish_sweetball (love the name!) and Insight. Yes, Ritter, I've misinterpreted the verb + pronoun, so thanks for the clarification. I was also wrong to think the InsultMonger website rendered it too literally. As I was in a hurry, I decided to use "yet mae" before any of you posted your follow-up replies, but I think "yet maeng" is acutally better, personally.

My apologies in advance to the administrators if I've caused people to violate any TOS or to any Thais in general who are offended. I think it's important for Thais to learn how powerful English swearing can be, just like Thai swearing. It always irritates me when I hear vulgar cursing in movies, then skim the Thai subtitles and it's something quite mild or different. The other day I actually overheard a Thai on the Skytrain start using variations of <deleted>, s**t and and c**t (even more vulgar and offensive than <deleted>, perhaps the ugliest, harshest word in the English language) in equal measure to his falang friend. It was obvious the Thai thought it was hip slang, whereas the falang stood there looking rather aghast. And like most beginners, he had absolutely no idea how to use the words effectively and cohesively in combination, so he just sounded like a talking dictionary with Tourette Syndrome.

Yes, my wife combines all the vulgar and offensive English words she can think of when she wants to give me a telling off for something. She doesn't understand how strong it is, but as I didn't know any nasty Thai words, I just lived with it. I'm just dreading my 3 year old daughter giving her granddad a stream of <deleted>, s**t and other profanity...

[Johpa]

Yes, my wife combines all the vulgar and offensive English words she can think of when she wants to give me a telling off for something. She doesn't understand how strong it is, but as I didn't know any nasty Thai words, I just lived with it. I'm just dreading my 3 year old daughter giving her granddad a stream of <deleted>, s**t and other profanity...

Yea, my wife really lays down the English cuss words when she gets upset. I am often referred to as "dummy f*** stupid", using the "f-word" as if having the same force as the other two words. My son now laughs at it too.

[baennaenae]

What is " Som Narm Naa " in English ?

[Rikker]

สมน้ำหน้า means "serves you right!" (or serves him rigth, her right etc). But it's stronger than our English expression, because it consists of สม and น้ำหน้า. สม means "appropriate to" and น้ำหน้า is a contemptuous expression for the face/looks. Before I knew that I got quite a negative reaction from my wife using that one. Oops! Friends use it jokingly, but be careful.

Edit: I also see you've gotten several responses at this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=94337&st=0

Edited November 26, 2006 by Rikker

[baennaenae]

????????? means "serves you right!" (or serves him rigth, her right etc). But it's stronger than our English expression, because it consists of ?? and ???????. ?? means "appropriate to" and ??????? is a contemptuous expression for the face/looks. Before I knew that I got quite a negative reaction from my wife using that one. Oops! Friends use it jokingly, but be careful.

Edit: I also see you've gotten several responses at this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=94337&st=0

Thanks, Rikker

[Rikker]

Didn't realize you were Thai when I wrote that. Glad you got the help you needed at the other thread. Cheers.