Sturgeon warns Scotland will decide its European future independently

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Not on Scotland leaving the UK, you don't. Nor should you. You can always organise your own about kicking Scotland out of the UK. I would be fine with that too.

 

 

Much like the 'a vote to remain in the UK is the only way to remain in the EU' lie?

 

 

That is very low - I think she has shown time and again that she wears her heart on her sleeve. If you want to see disingenuous politicians, look south.

 

 

Which is why she is out, working hard, building the case for re-entry. 

 

So you don't approve of democracy then? Only Scotland can vote, and the other members of the UK get no say. Usual nationalist tail wags the dog theory. Scotland isn't currently a sovereign nation - get over it. It's an integral part of the UK. Any change to the UK should be put before the whole of the UK people. Not just a tiny part where less than half support the notion.

 

No one hid the up coming Brexit referendum. But most thought that remain would win. Had Scotland voted to leave the UK they would have been out the EU period.

 

Sorry, I don't think she's any more honest or open than any other politician. She announces a campaign to win hearts and minds, is down is the polls personally and then we get the miscarriage story released, after keeping it quiet for 11 years. Just coincidence then.

 

The case for re-entry is simple. Scotland would need to be an independent country that can meet the EU entry criteria, accept the conditions such as Euro and Schengen acceptance that are mandatory for new entrants, and then be approved by all 27 member states. 

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

have a Scottish friend actually living in Scotland, not the Philippenese or Thailand, 

 who simple hates the SNP and all they stand for. His young son, drawing on his worldly experiance is very pro SNP,and did vote for separation in 2014, yet this yr voted for UK independence. 

 

And what does one friend and one lady with a placard tell you? Look at the bums on seats in both Holyrood and Westminster for Scottish constituencies and you will see how the public view the SNP.

[nontabury]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And a majority of Scots want to remain in the EU - we should therefore respect their views.

 

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And a majority of Scots want to remain in the EU - we should therefore respect their views.

 

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And a majority of Scots want to remain in the EU - we should therefore respect their views.

 

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And a majority of Scots want to remain in the EU - we should therefore respect their views.

 

 

 

So did the majority in London, should they be allowed to dictate to the rest of the country?   

  One solution would be to build a tunnel between London and Scotland,let them join as one country and leave the UK, then Scotdon can apply for membership of the undemocratic EU. On EU terms of course. 

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And a majority of Scots want to remain in the EU - we should therefore respect their views.

 

It wasn't a case of Scotland or any other area of the UK could pick and choose. It was a simple first past the post vote. Not even rules on voter participation or size of margin required. 

 

No one said anyone who didn't like the result, and I didn't, could decide to opt out. 38% of Scots voted to leave the EU. A majority of Scots voted to remain in the UK. But only nationalists votes get respected eh?

[SgtRock]

Methinks RR's Surname is Sturgeon 

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And what does one friend and one lady with a placard tell you? Look at the bums on seats in both Holyrood and Westminster for Scottish constituencies and you will see how the public view the SNP.

 

That's true - but many who vote SNP don't seem to support independence.

 

Odd that, voting for a party whose core objective is independence, whose whole raison d'etre is independence. But there you are.

[HappyDazed]

7 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So you don't approve of democracy then? Only Scotland can vote, and the other members of the UK get no say. Usual nationalist tail wags the dog theory. Scotland isn't currently a sovereign nation - get over it. It's an integral part of the UK. Any change to the UK should be put before the whole of the UK people. Not just a tiny part where less than half support the notion.

 

 

Following your logic the whole of the EU should have been able to vote in the referendum.

[Baerboxer]

23 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/06/nicola-sturgeon-shelves-quick-second-scottish-independence-referendum-bill

 

Crack on

 

Indeed. That's why she out, winning hearts and minds, deflecting from her government's performance, and rekindling the lie and urban myth that EU entry for Scotland would be easy peasy piece of cake guaranteed - and on her terms.

 

She's desperate to get her own way. With the SNP honeymoon looking over, increasingly poor finances, and polls that show she wouldn't win a second referendum. she's running out of time and options.

 

Failing in another referendum will be a death knell. And she's very unsure at the moment.

[goldenbrwn1]

14 minutes ago, partington said:

 

 

 

If these two people you refer to comprised the entire population of Scotland you might have a point.

 

Otherwise it's a bit irrelevant that you know a couple of people who do or don't agree with any particular point that's being made.

Well if we refer to you , ruamrudy and Nongkhaikid who think you comprise of the entire ( ex pat scots ) population of Thailand, you might have a point.  But I do get your point ,it is quite irrelevant on both sides of the fence.  One unusual thing I have noticed ,is that there is quite a few posts by ruamrudy that nongkhakid hasn't liked yet!  

Edited September 7, 2016 by goldenbrwn1

[SgtRock]

2 minutes ago, HappyDazed said:

 

Following your logic the whole of the EU should have been able to vote in the referendum.

 

No, totally false.

 

There is a documented and laid down procedure for any Country that wishes to leave the EU.

 

The only thing necessary is for a Country to invoke Article 50. There is no need for any referendum to trigger Article 50.

 

There is no such legislation between the 4 Countries that make up the UK.

[partington]

12 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Well if we refer to you , ruamrudy and Nongkhaikid who think you comprise of the entire ( ex pat scots ) population of Thailand, you might have a point.  But I do get your point ,it is quite irrelevant on both sides of the fence.  One unusual thing I have noticed ,is that there is quite a few posts by ruamrudy that nongkhakid hasn't liked yet!  

I've only made three posts ( this is the fourth), and in one of them I clearly stated I was English.

 

I never made any claims about how representative my opinions are, they are simply my personal opinions. I've already said I think Brexit is such a massive political change that the Scots should vote again on independence, as staying in the EU was made a significant part of the "Remain in UK" campaign, and this was revealed to be a false basis for a "remain" vote.

 

If the Scots vote against independence again, fine.  

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by partington

[CharlieK]

She is just following her own agenda, This is not about Scottish independence. She is as bad as Corbyn.

 

 

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And a majority of Scots want to remain in the EU - we should therefore respect their views.

 

 

To to be correct,the majority of Scots who Voted ,did in fact vote to remain in the undemocratic E.U.

 But this was not the majority of Scots.

 

 

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 

To to be correct,the majority of Scots who Voted ,did in fact vote to remain in the undemocratic E.U.

 But this was not the majority of Scots.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I should find a way to make this auto posting because I have asked the question repeatedly on TV and NEVER had a credible answer: please provide evidence of SNP or Nationalist supporters' alleged racism against the English. 

 

I think it might have been you who suggested that someone told you in the 60s to go back to England - but that was the most cogent answer I have ever seen.

[nontabury]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I should find a way to make this auto posting because I have asked the question repeatedly on TV and NEVER had a credible answer: please provide evidence of SNP or Nationalist supporters' alleged racism against the English. 

 

I think it might have been you who suggested that someone told you in the 60s to go back to England - but that was the most cogent answer I have ever seen.

  

 

Wrong again R.R.   The people who have repeatedly told me about the Scottish anti racism against the English have always been Scots.

     As regard your statement that I told you that someone in the 60s told me to go back to England. This is completely untrue, as I have never said such a thing,or even made such a suggestion. 

[RuamRudy]

17 minutes ago, nontabury said:

To to be correct,the majority of Scots who Voted ,did in fact vote to remain in the undemocratic E.U.

 But this was not the majority of Scots.

 

Good point - we can assume that those who voted for Brexit were strongly in favour of it - everyone else was either Pro EU, or not too fussed either way. Therefore, in fact only 26% of Scots wanted to leave the EU; 74% wanted to remain or were not overly bothered.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

  

 

Wrong again R.R.   The people who have repeatedly told me about the Scottish anti racism against the English have always been Scots.

     As regard your statement that I told you that someone in the 60s told me to go back to England. This is completely untrue, as I have never said such a thing,or even made such a suggestion. 

 

Again, I ask for examples, not unverifiable anecdotes. If this problem is as prevalent as you suggest, proof should not be too hard to provide. Maybe something like all the anti-EU nationals racism we see across England, although hopefully not the murders...

 

Apologies if I attributed an anecdote incorrectly. I mentioned it because it was the one and only example I have ever been provided here on TV - I guess it was another poster. 

[ukrules]

12 hours ago, NanLaew said:

"... Scottish economy has gone to shit...' How so?

 

One of the arguments used was based on the oil revenue generated. Where's all that now ?

[ukrules]

9 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

The English complain about Sturgeon which is rich coming from a country that produced loonies like Boris and Farange to name but just a few.    

 

There's more English people complaining about Boris and Farage than there are Scottish people alive today.

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And a majority of Scots want to remain in the EU - we should therefore respect their views.

 

Their views are respected, however as a minority part of the UK they're not going to get their own way as the UK as a whole has decided to leave the EU. It's that simple. Game over.

[RuamRudy]

 

Their views are respected, however as a minority part of the UK they're not going to get their own way as the UK as a whole has decided to leave the EU. It's that simple. Game over.

I am not saying that Scottish views outweigh those of the English, however we, as an entity, voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU.

In fact, only 1 in 4 Scots voted to leave the EU but we face being dragged out against our wishes.

You talk of UK, but like many of my countrymen, I believe that the UK is secondary to Scotland.

[Anthony5]

So the Scots voted to be part of the UK instead of the EU, then the UK voted to be not part of the EU, and now the Scots want to be part of the EU.

 

I must be missing something.

[vogie]

15 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

So the Scots voted to be part of the UK instead of the EU, then the UK voted to be not part of the EU, and now the Scots want to be part of the EU.

 

I must be missing something.

Its called me me me!

[RuamRudy]

So the Scots voted to be part of the UK instead of the EU, then the UK voted to be not part of the EU, and now the Scots want to be part of the EU.

 

I must be missing something.

If that is your analysis of the situation, then you are correct - you are missing something.

[RuamRudy]

Its called me me me!

I think you are referring to the Brexit ethos there, no?

Scottish independence is based upon civic nationalism, an inclusive government working for all parts of society to deliver a fairer, more equitable society. These are concepts we will never achieve within the UK.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think you are referring to the Brexit ethos there, no?

Scottish independence is based upon civic nationalism, an inclusive government working for all parts of society to deliver a fairer, more equitable society. These are concepts we will never achieve within the UK.

 

As I said "me me me"

[billd766]

14 hours ago, NanLaew said:

"... Scottish economy has gone to shit...' How so?

 

Have you seen the price of Brent Crude oil lately?

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Have you seen the price of Brent Crude oil lately?

 

Everything is going just great, cheap oil is a good thing.

[phrodan]

13 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 

To to be correct,the majority of Scots who Voted ,did in fact vote to remain in the undemocratic E.U.

 But this was not the majority of Scots.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Drivel. 

 

It was never agreed that Scotland would have one independence referendum.  Cameron could have written a time bar into The Edinburgh Agreement but knew that to be constitutionally impossible. 

 

It's not for you, or Cameron, or anyone else to lock out the democratic will of the Scottish electorate.  If the Scottish electorate decides to give a mandate to independence minded parties then an independence referendum cannot be denied. 

 

At this point, Unionists bring up the Alex Salmond quote about a "once in a generation," opportunity.  That was his opinion, not SNP policy. If it had been an agreed SNP policy then I would bow to the Unionist opinion on the matter. 

 

I believe you'll remember me saying that I expected defeat at the first referendum, victory at the second.  I stand by that.  I was of the opinion that a 58 - 42 No vote would be the result, and was delighted at the eventual 55.3 - 44.7.  

 

I am of the opinion that Sturgeon misplayed her hand on the morning of the Brexit announcement. She should have remained silent that day and watched the chaos develop.  I'm not her biggest fan, and I had a fallout with SNP  activists on Brexit Friday expressing that view.  

 

You spend way too much time expressing a multitude of useless opinions on this matter. Your opinion is irrelevant, and you can express it a million times, it will still be irrelevant.  If you want a dog in this fight, move to Scotland and join the electoral register. In this regard,  you are nothing but digital litter.   

[phrodan]

And to the others that have attempted multiple flames or spouted worthless meme's on this thread. 

 

We Scots could not care less what you think.  You are wasting your precious time on threads like this.  Better you go campaign on a subject that you have an influence on than amusing us with your nonsense. 

 

.....................................................................................

 

So lets look at a nonsense. 

 

Repeatedly we Scots were told that we would not be given access to the EU if we voted for Independence - or at the very least, we'd have to wait years.

 

So 55.3 of the electorate voted In UK - In EU.  

 

The Brexit result?

 

62% in EU

 

End result? In UK - Out EU.

 

That is a material difference to what was "settled," in 2014, even to Unionist eyes in Scotland.  No one is that thick they can deny that.

 

I note some people on this thread embarrassing themselves by trying to suggest that a non-vote should be considered in "what percentage of the population actually voted in favour."  In ancient Greek times, to refuse to participate in an election rendered you an Idioti.  I would not refer to the people who did not vote in the last two referendums as Idioti,  non-participation is a valid tactic.  I do know people who genuinely could not decide.  

 

I do regard people that spout these meaningless "actual percentage of the population," figures as Idioti.  Grow up - only those who took the time to go to the ballot box have expressed an opinion.  The rest have chosen to abrogate their democratic right. 

 

It's as simple as that.