Sturgeon warns Scotland will decide its European future independently

[SheungWan]

18 hours ago, yardrunner said:

And if their was a referendum in England i think the majority would be for chucking the Scots out

 

And if there was a referendum in London the majority would vote to chuck the rest of England out.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Everything is going just great, cheap oil is a good thing.

 

It is for the consumer, but if you are expecting a large income to fund your country it isn't

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

It is for the consumer, but if you are expecting a large income to fund your country it isn't

 

If, as is possible, we are entering a new era of low oil prices, it seems obvious that any country that has oil as a factor in its economy should trim its sails accordingly. There are middle eastern countries that are 90% plus reliant on oil for their income - Scotland is nowhere near as dependent upon oil. Of course, these countries possibly have sovereign wealth funds to cushion the blow, whereas Thatcher blew any chance of that on tax breaks for rich tory donors and the pursuit of her dream of destroying the sense of working class community up and down the UK.  

 

Anyway, the point is that a mature and confident country can adapt to ever changing climates. We must not sit on our hands, cowering in fear of the future, fooled into thinking that remaining joined to England in a political union is the answer, because look at Scotland now: the UK is clearly not delivering a solution to our problems. 

[billd766]

41 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

If, as is possible, we are entering a new era of low oil prices, it seems obvious that any country that has oil as a factor in its economy should trim its sails accordingly. There are middle eastern countries that are 90% plus reliant on oil for their income - Scotland is nowhere near as dependent upon oil. Of course, these countries possibly have sovereign wealth funds to cushion the blow, whereas Thatcher blew any chance of that on tax breaks for rich tory donors and the pursuit of her dream of destroying the sense of working class community up and down the UK.  

 

Anyway, the point is that a mature and confident country can adapt to ever changing climates. We must not sit on our hands, cowering in fear of the future, fooled into thinking that remaining joined to England in a political union is the answer, because look at Scotland now: the UK is clearly not delivering a solution to our problems. 

 

That is true but you are assuming that the Scottish people will listen to their politicians and not to the people themselves. An assumption that David Cameron and the UK politicians, the EU and its politicians, Obama and many other experts world wide thought.

 

Also at the last referendum you had you changed the rules  to allow children of 16 who are not old enough to drink, marry,  vote in the National elections or join the military to vote. Also Scots who were outside the borders of Scotland were banned from voting and yet Salmond still lost the vote.

 

This is not to say that you would lose this time but try keeping to the rules and let ANY Scots person who is a registered voter, no matter where they live, have a vote too.

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

This is not to say that you would lose this time but try keeping to the rules and let ANY Scots person who is a registered voter, no matter where they live, have a vote too.

 

Any referendum that Scotland may have in the future that involves leaving the UK but being a member of the EU will be lost.

 

Something that appears to be lost on Sturgeon and the SNP.

 

The Scots give up the £ for the euro 

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

That is true but you are assuming that the Scottish people will listen to their politicians and not to the people themselves. An assumption that David Cameron and the UK politicians, the EU and its politicians, Obama and many other experts world wide thought.

 

Also at the last referendum you had you changed the rules  to allow children of 16 who are not old enough to drink, marry,  vote in the National elections or join the military to vote. Also Scots who were outside the borders of Scotland were banned from voting and yet Salmond still lost the vote.

 

This is not to say that you would lose this time but try keeping to the rules and let ANY Scots person who is a registered voter, no matter where they live, have a vote too.

 

Polls are not always reliable, but it seems, from yesterday's Herald, hardly a fan of independence, that 54% of Scotland's voters would vote for the SNP at the next general election. It seems that, however fickle the electorate generally is, the Scottish electorate is willing to keep listening to the SNP. 

 

16 year olds in Scotland can marry, join the armed forces, vote in Scottish elections. 

Edited September 8, 2016 by RuamRudy

[SgtRock]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Polls are not always reliable, but it seems, from yesterday's Herald, hardly a fan of independence, that 54% of Scotland's voters would vote for the SNP at the next general election. It seems that, however fickle the electorate generally is, the Scottish electorate is willing to keep listening to the SNP. 

 

16 year olds in Scotland can marry, join the armed forces, vote in Scottish elections. 

 

Given the perception of other Parties in Scotland it should surprise no-one that the SNP would / should get 54% of the vote at a General election.

 

Unfortunately, the thread is not about General Election but about Scotland's EU future.

 

It does not have one, certainly not short term.

 

Instead of listening to the soundbites of Sturgeon and the SNP, I suggest that you lobby them to carry out a substansive review of how many people would be in favour of leaving the UK but remain a part of the EU.

 

It will never never be carried out. Sturgeon will get her @ss handed to her on a plate.

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Given the perception of other Parties in Scotland it should surprise no-one that the SNP would / should get 54% of the vote at a General election.

 

Unfortunately, the thread is not about General Election but about Scotland's EU future.

 

It does not have one, certainly not short term.

 

Instead of listening to the soundbites of Sturgeon and the SNP, I suggest that you lobby them to carry out a substansive review of how many people would be in favour of leaving the UK but remain a part of the EU.

 

It will never never be carried out. Sturgeon will get her @ss handed to her on a plate.

 

Only 26% of Scots were inclined to vote to leave the EU - we see the folly of that objective; that is why Farage was chased out of Edinburgh and UKIP Scotland is even more of a joke than its English counterpart. 

 

Of course there will be those whose views include both Scottish nationalism and anti EU sentiment, however I would suggest that they are a relatively small subset. My rationale for saying that is that I have met nobody who I can recall actually espousing such sentiment. Do you have any tangible reason to suggest it may be different?

 

Soundbites? Which soundbites?

Edited September 8, 2016 by RuamRudy

[SgtRock]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Only 26% of Scots were inclined to vote to leave the EU - we see the folly of that objective; that is why Farage was chased out of Edinburgh and UKIP Scotland is even more of a joke than its English counterpart. 

 

Of course there will be those whose views include both Scottish nationalism and anti EU sentiment, however I would suggest that they are a relatively small subset. My rationale for saying that is that I have met nobody who I can recall actually espousing such sentiment. Do you have any tangible reason to suggest it may be different?

 

Soundbites? Which soundbites?

 

I give you this article

 

Quote

She announced last Friday she wanted Scottish National party members to consult two million Scottish voters on their attitudes to independence, to understand why those who voted no had rejected leaving the UK. That morning, a YouGov poll for the Times had found only 40% of voters still backed independence, including don’t knows, while only 37% backed holding a second vote before the UK left the EU. Excluding don’t knows, it found that opposition to independence was at 54% and support at 46% – the same figure as in the 2014 referendum.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/06/nicola-sturgeon-shelves-quick-second-scottish-independence-referendum-bill

 

Top Tip for you.

 

In 2014  had the referendum been about Independence free of the UK and free of the EU the SNP would have won it by a landslide.

 

Some people need to reach an understanding of what Independence actually is.

[billd766]

48 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Polls are not always reliable, but it seems, from yesterday's Herald, hardly a fan of independence, that 54% of Scotland's voters would vote for the SNP at the next general election. It seems that, however fickle the electorate generally is, the Scottish electorate is willing to keep listening to the SNP. 

 

16 year olds in Scotland can marry, join the armed forces, vote in Scottish elections. 

 

My apologies to you.

 

16 year olds CAN marry in Scotland as no parental consent is required. I thought that it was.

 

http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/registration/getting-married-in-scotland/minimum-age-for-marriage-in-scotland

 

I also thought that young people had to be 18 to join the UK military. I was 15 1/2 when I joined the RAF but that was back in January 1960 and the Boy Entrant and  Aircraft Apprentice schemes have long gone.

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/joint-committees/human-rights/Briefing_from_Forces_Watch_age_of_recruitment.pdf

 

 

[SgtRock]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I also thought that young people had to be 18 to join the UK military. I was 15 1/2 when I joined the RAF but that was back in January 1960 and the Boy Entrant and  Aircraft Apprentice schemes have long gone.

 

You can join at 16 ( Junior leaders )  or whatever it is called nowadays.

 

I had to wait until I was 17 1/2 as my mother would not sign the paperwork. ( Father killed on Active Service )

 

18 to serve in combat.

 

Always with the caveat that things could have changed since I left

[Grouse]

On 7 September 2016 at 0:28 PM, yardrunner said:

And if their was a referendum in England i think the majority would be for chucking the Scots out

 

Well we now know that the numpties outnumber the wise in England and Wales, so a majority would most probably be for "chucking the Scots out"

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

 

Any referendum that Scotland may have in the future that involves leaving the UK but being a member of the EU will be lost.

 

Something that appears to be lost on Sturgeon and the SNP.

 

The Scots give up the £ for the euro 

 

I think everything is in a state of flux at the moment. Scotland could have multiple options including a Scottish pound. 

[SgtRock]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Well we now know that the numpties outnumber the wise in England and Wales, so a majority would most probably be for "chucking the Scots out"

 

It would appear that the numpties are becoming a lessor spotted species. The numpties that think that being Independent and part of the EU equates to being Independent grows smaller by the day.

 

One day the numpties will become extinct, the uneducated tend to die out

 

Say goodbye to numpties, you  know it makes sense.

Edited September 8, 2016 by SgtRock

[SheungWan]

It is certainly true that a higher percentage of Scots voted to stay in the EU than voted for independence and one might anticipate that in the event of a second Scottish referendum for independence the vote might be for going it alone. I say might because the SNP campaigned to stay in the sterling area even after Scottish independence and in addition would have assumed staying with sterling if the Brexit vote had gone the other way. It would seem now, however, that if there was another Scottish referendum on the back of wanting to reverse Brexit, then the option of staying with sterling has to be jettisoned. Yes?

Edited September 8, 2016 by SheungWan

[SgtRock]

24 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

in the event of a second Scottish referendum for independence the vote might be for going it alone.

 

In your considered opinion, can you explain to the forum how being a member of the EU is going it alone ?

 

I have tried really, really hard and cannot come up with an explanation.

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

In your considered opinion, can you explain to the forum how being a member of the EU is going it alone ?

 

I have tried really, really hard and cannot come up with an explanation.

 

Ask a grown up from Estonia

 

or any nearby officer

[SgtRock]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Ask a grown up from Estonia

 

or any nearby officer

 

Do not give up your day job, you will never make it as a comedian.

 

Estonia has got as much to do with the topic as your lack of humour.

 

In your imaginary world of self importance and superior education, perhaps you could explain how being a member of the EU equates to be Independent.

 

Astound me 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Do not give up your day job, you will never make it as a comedian.

 

Estonia has got as much to do with the topic as your lack of humour.

 

In your imaginary world of self importance and superior education, perhaps you could explain how being a member of the EU equates to be Independent.

 

Astound me 

 

I think Estonia is a particularly obvious example. You don't do subtlety so let's look at this. 

 

Estonians are overjoyed at their perceived economic success and freedoms following leaving the Eastern Block and joining the EU. 

 

My understanding is that a vast majority (including ethnic Russians) welcome the status quo. They feel Estonian but appreciate being a member of the EU club.

 

You don't get that, fine.

 

Many of us do.

 

I suspect, but don't know, that a majority of Scots would feel happier away from Neo-con Westminster and be a member of the EU club. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but my recent sojourn in Scotland leads me to believe I'm correct

 

For the record, my father was a Scot so I consider myself 50% Scottish. ( the left side)

[SgtRock]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

I think Estonia is a particularly obvious example. You don't do subtlety so let's look at this. 

 

Estonians are overjoyed at their perceived economic success and freedoms following leaving the Eastern Block and joining the EU. 

 

My understanding is that a vast majority (including ethnic Russians) welcome the status quo. They feel Estonian but appreciate being a member of the EU club.

 

You don't get that, fine.

 

Many of us do.

 

I suspect, but don't know, that a majority of Scots would feel happier away from Neo-con Westminster and be a member of the EU club. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but my recent sojourn in Scotland leads me to believe I'm correct

 

For the record, my father was a Scot so I consider myself 50% Scottish. ( the left side)

 

Yep

 

Quote

Breakdown of Estonia’s finances with the EU in 2014: 

• Total EU spending in Estonia: € 0.668 billion
• Total EU spending as % of Estonian gross national income (GNI): 3.50 %
• Total Estonian contribution to the EU budget: € 0.178 billion
• Estonian contribution to the EU budget as % of its GNI: 0.94 % 

 

http://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries/estonia_en

 

Estonia is absolutely delirious as is every Country that is a net gainer. Neither is Estonia part of the topic.

 

But your deflection has not gone unnoticed.

 

I, and the followers of this forum, who are all in awe (  ) of your superior intellectual levels are waiting for you to explain how being a member of the EU equates to being Independent.

 

If you are having difficulty in understanding my English. I make no apologies, English is my second language. Off topic but I am also fluent in German and French, I also speak Thai. Urdu and Pashtu.

 

Perhaps you could get your father to explain Pog mo Thon.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

On 7.9.2016 at 5:34 AM, ukrules said:

Not a chance. Recent polls suggest there much less support for leaving now the Scottish economy has gone to shit.

 

that may be so

 

but is it a given that Scotland would have to exit UK in order to affiliate with the EU?

 

there are some interesting examples of affiliations around

 

denmark/greenland  -  EU relationship

 

spain/canary islands  -  EU relationship

 

portugal/azores  -  EU

 

possibly others, can't remember off hand

 

 

 

[Naam]

5 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

I also speak Thai. Urdu and Pashtu.

zindabad Sergeant Rock Khan!

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

zindabad Sergeant Rock Khan!

 

           ہم سے پہلے مطلع کیا

[dave_boo]

Can I, as an outsider, ask a question?

 

Assuming that Scotland holds a referendum and votes to separate from the UK, what are the chances that the EU would take them in?  This is a serious question.  If they let Scotland split off and join the EU, what about the below areas that want to break away from their current countries?  Would the rest of the EU be responsible for propping them up until such time as they may be able to be independent nations?

 

Northern Epirus

Flanders

Wallonia

Province of Luxembourg

Republika Srpska

Croatian Republic of Herzeg-Bosnia

Blagoevgrad Province

Istria

Rijeka

Northern Cyprus

Moravia

Czech Silesia

Bornholm

Faroe Island

Åland

Basque

Brittany

Northern Catalonia

Corsica

Savoy

Occitania

Provence

Country of Nice

Normandy

Abkhazia

South Ossetia

Bravaria

East Prissia

Fraconia

Lusatia

Schleswig-Holstein

Sardinia

Sicily

South Tyrol

Veneto

 

And I'm tired of typing.

 

Will those countries, and more, get a fair shake or will the destabilisation of the EU resulting from providing the acceptance of those above prevent the EU from accepting an independent Scotland?

[metisdead]

A post using foreign language has been removed.   English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[dave_boo]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

My apologies to you.

 

16 year olds CAN marry in Scotland as no parental consent is required. I thought that it was.

 

http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/registration/getting-married-in-scotland/minimum-age-for-marriage-in-scotland

 

I also thought that young people had to be 18 to join the UK military. I was 15 1/2 when I joined the RAF but that was back in January 1960 and the Boy Entrant and  Aircraft Apprentice schemes have long gone.

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/joint-committees/human-rights/Briefing_from_Forces_Watch_age_of_recruitment.pdf

 

 

2016 minus 1960 plus 15.5....carry the one...holy crap that's almost a century old chap.

 

BTW...miss our rides.

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, dave_boo said:

2016 minus 1960 plus 15.5....carry the one...holy crap that's almost a century old chap.

 

BTW...miss our rides.

 

I haven't been out much lately on the bike. Too old for long distance riding now.

 

Have a great day Dave.

[dave_boo]

Just now, billd766 said:

 

I haven't been out much lately on the bike. Too old for long distance riding now.

 

Have a great day Dave.

 

Probably a bit too rainy also.

 

Do you have any thoughts about my previous question regarding Scotland's independence bid?

[billd766]

20 minutes ago, dave_boo said:

 

Probably a bit too rainy also.

 

Do you have any thoughts about my previous question regarding Scotland's independence bid?

 

Definitely too rainy.

 

The Scots will do what THEY want to do which is not always what politician want or expect them to do.

 

January 28th 2018 will be 58 years to the day when I signed up.

 

I wonder how many Scottish regiments will be transferred to the forthcoming EU standing army.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Definitely too rainy.

 

The Scots will do what THEY want to do which is not always what politician want or expect them to do.

 

January 28th 2018 will be 58 years to the day when I signed up.

 

I wonder how many Scottish regiments will be transferred to the forthcoming EU standing army.

I am proud to say I served with many fine Scots soldiers whilst in the army, its just a shame that they want to leave the union (or some do), but if they do can they please take Lorraine Kelly with them.