45-meter fall, sexually assaulted backpacker Hannah Gavios shares story from hospital bed

[ClutchClark]

12 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

I'm sure she's thanking Buddha as we speak ... for blessing her with good luck?

 

When you consider she fell off a 45-meter cliff then its very lucky she is alive. When you consider a rape could have been exposed her to any number of diseases then its very lucky she was not raped because her attacker had opportunity.

 

So I would say if it was Buddha who gave her these shitty options, she could thank him for not giving her worse.

[BlindMagician]

So much wrong with this...

 

5-10 yrs! She gets ~50 with the memory and some degree of paralysis.

 

Not just one crime, but a series of crimes.

 

LoS (not for her) has no tour guide regulation. It clearly needs it. Vetting, registration, etc, Gov publicise advice to use the vetted. User reviews.

 

Awful.

 

[wow64]

16 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Have you ever considered taking up counselling, you might have the right balance of empathy and diplomacy?

 

It was a nasty violent sexual assault on another human being, I think that's the part to focus on ... not the semantics.

 

Never thought of changing careers especially as a Counsellor, thanks for the compliment. 

 

Tourists coming here need to know it's not the safe place you see on the signs coming into the airport.

 

The PM advised girls not to wear bikinis to avoid being raped. Enough said really.

[AlexRich]

31 minutes ago, wow64 said:

 

Never thought of changing careers especially as a Counsellor, thanks for the compliment. 

 

Tourists coming here need to know it's not the safe place you see on the signs coming into the airport.

 

The PM advised girls not to wear bikinis to avoid being raped. Enough said really.

 

You think the girl in question had no idea? She's travelled around SE Asia and spent considerable time in Vietnam, so I'd guess she's as aware, and probably more aware, than many on this forum. She wasn't wearing a bikini ... so looks like she took the PM's advice. Bad things can happen anywhere in the world, and no precaution is ever 100% - so let's not blame the victim. You have a career? 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, ClutchClark said:

 

When you consider she fell off a 45-meter cliff then its very lucky she is alive. When you consider a rape could have been exposed her to any number of diseases then its very lucky she was not raped because her attacker had opportunity.

 

So I would say if it was Buddha who gave her these shitty options, she could thank him for not giving her worse.

 

Or curse him for giving her such an awful experience in the first place.

 

Let's face it, she could have been bitten by snakes, fallen further down the cliff, broke her neck in the fall ... but they, like not being raped, are hardly reasons to be cheerful. I wouldn't want her luck.

[Thian]

18 hours ago, mzep said:

Are you for real?  What does her telling the truth has to do with defaming Thailand?  She is a rape victim who is paralyzed!!!  She should remain silent and shield her perpetrator?  This has nothing to do with Thailand per se, it's about a criminal who should be punished severly for his crime.  Rapists exist in every country, and Thailand is no exception.  Although I don't know what the statistics are, I wouldn't be surprised if it is much more common in the US and Europe.  Either way, crime victims should not be restricted from sharing their horrible ordeal - if they choose to do so.   

 

You better read that forum the sister from Hannah (the killed koh tsao girl) made. She got serious problems in Thailand when she came here after the killings, it was about defamation and so...

[Songlaw]

17 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Insulating yourself is the same thing as mitigating risk. 

 

We are in agreement. 

 

No argument here. 

 

BTW, what is the timeline of the victim's day exactly? One article stated she had just traveled 16 hours...does that mean she was enroute to her hotel for the first time to check in or had she already checked in and was attempting to return?

 

Thank you. 

 

I accept your interpretation of 'insulation,' to a point. Where wiring, or thermal issues are concerned, it is generally accepted that insulation is regarded as protection. And in most cases, electricians/apprentices and the like depend upon this interpretation. However, nothing is 100% effective, or assured, so insulation could be viewed as mitigation. 

 

As for your questions concerning the victim's timeline, I inferred from what I read concerning the actual crime that she was attempting to return to her residence when offered 'assistance,' and I further suspect if it required ascending/descending through jungle hills and what-not to check in initially, she would have balked at the onset, though I could be wrong. Truth be told, I cannot definitively answer one way or the other. But this would be my take on it.

[Ceruhe]

14 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

Just because some people want the same rights, doesn't mean yours are going to be taken away. 

I'll get back to that in some handful of hours, forgot to upload my notes to the cloud and now don't have access to it. I will however reply as a private message as to not further off topic here.

 

I will applaud you here right now regardless for having not handwaived it a 2nd time though.

[DM07]

This forum amazes me, more and more!

There are openly racist comments about the looks of the culprit and ongoing victim- blaming!

And all this goes on for 7 pages and counting!

[DM07]

11 hours ago, Howitzer said:

 

 

waiting for some butt hurt super liberal fairy to come in to question you what do you mean by that? Are you immplying that africans are more prone to commit these types of crimes!!!! A few posters got flamed for insulting his looks despite the fact that he did indeed commit said crime.

Here I am!

His looks have #$@% all to do with the crime!

He could look like Brad Pitt or the hunchback of Notre Dam and it would not have any more or less influence on what he did!

It is IRRELEVANT! 

...and racist, y the way!

Not that I think you care for that little gem!

[Songlaw]

15 hours ago, vivasamui said:

If nobody points out that the victim was(is) stupid, other women/girls might think it's okay to let a stranger to walk you home late at night in a deserted area in a foreign country (or even in your own city).

 

While in an 'ideal' world this sort of thing should not be a problem for either a male or a female in distress, the world has no interest in our opinions. It does what it does. As such, I am forced to agree with you that other options should be both considered and explored, by both men and women who find themselves in peril. As for male perpetrators of mayhem, I don't even know where to begin. Perhaps it should be pointed out that our (the males) first responsibility as humans, is as fathers. Until we (again, the males) begin thinking and acting with a measure of gravitas (which, incidentally, would provide long-absent models of temperament and behavior for younger males), the tenor of society will continue to be one of depravity and devolution.

Don't expect god and his/her/its paternalistic and coerced morality to somehow transform a situation born of indulgence. Just as importantly, don't expect women to magically compensate for our shortfalls in character. It works like this. Unless you would pay your own son or daughter for sex, then you do not allow yourself to pay someone else's. And unless you would force yourself upon your own son or daughter, do not allow yourself to consider someone else's fair game, either. If you find these concepts too constraining for your tastes, my advice would be to remain as far as humanly possible from the likes of me, and society as a whole. Because we will eventually find you, and see to it that you are held to account, and will not rest until the last farthing has been extracted. Remember, moments after ejaculation, you return to the sniveling, quivering, piece-of-crap that you allowed yourself to become. And that is precisely the moment when your reckoning will befall you. Either reverse the trend, or reap the whirlwind, without mercy. 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, DM07 said:

Here I am!

His looks have #$@% all to do with the crime!

He could look like Brad Pitt or the hunchback of Notre Dam and it would not have any more or less influence on what he did!

It is IRRELEVANT! 

...and racist, y the way!

Not that I think you care for that little gem!

 

Personally, I think he looks more like Quasimodo of Notre Dame fame ... whatever way you look at it he's an ugly fecker. 

 

But as to judging by looks, racism, etc, the truth is that we all are prejudice and tribal, it's in our genetic make up, a self-preservation tool. And however many books you read on political correctness and how we "should" behave, it's simply in our nature, and not necessarily for bad reasons. 

 

The guy is a nasty criminal, I'm not worried if I've hurt his feelings, I'm much more concerned for his innocent victim. 

 

 

 

 

[wandasloan]

On 9/8/2016 at 7:21 AM, jacko45k said:

I struggle to believe even Thailand would drag this crippled and injured woman to jail over defamation right now.

 

Of course they won't. You have to be deficient to think otherwise, to even consider otherwise.

 

[ddavidovsky]

1 hour ago, Songlaw said:

 

While in an 'ideal' world this sort of thing should not be a problem for either a male or a female in distress, the world has no interest in our opinions. It does what it does. As such, I am forced to agree with you that other options should be both considered and explored, by both men and women who find themselves in peril. As for male perpetrators of mayhem, I don't even know where to begin. Perhaps it should be pointed out that our (the males) first responsibility as humans, is as fathers. Until we (again, the males) begin thinking and acting with a measure of gravitas (which, incidentally, would provide long-absent models of temperament and behavior for younger males), the tenor of society will continue to be one of depravity and devolution.

Don't expect god and his/her/its paternalistic and coerced morality to somehow transform a situation born of indulgence. Just as importantly, don't expect women to magically compensate for our shortfalls in character. It works like this. Unless you would pay your own son or daughter for sex, then you do not allow yourself to pay someone else's. And unless you would force yourself upon your own son or daughter, do not allow yourself to consider someone else's fair game, either. If you find these concepts too constraining for your tastes, my advice would be to remain as far as humanly possible from the likes of me, and society as a whole. Because we will eventually find you, and see to it that you are held to account, and will not rest until the last farthing has been extracted. Remember, moments after ejaculation, you return to the sniveling, quivering, piece-of-crap that you allowed yourself to become. And that is precisely the moment when your reckoning will befall you. Either reverse the trend, or reap the whirlwind, without mercy. 

 

Rather utopian to combat rape by appealing only to a sense of male decency.

 

I'm not sure why you bring prostitution into it, but if you try to rule that out of society on moral grounds then there'll only be more deranged men prowling around, not less.

 

There are various measures can be taken to reduce rape (including women learning how to protect themselves) but I don't see how you can rule out completely the existence of brutes at the bottom of society who are not getting any.

 

 

 

[DM07]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Personally, I think he looks more like Quasimodo of Notre Dame fame ... whatever way you look at it he's an ugly fecker. 

 

But as to judging by looks, racism, etc, the truth is that we all are prejudice and tribal, it's in our genetic make up, a self-preservation tool. And however many books you read on political correctness and how we "should" behave, it's simply in our nature, and not necessarily for bad reasons. 

 

The guy is a nasty criminal, I'm not worried if I've hurt his feelings, I'm much more concerned for his innocent victim. 

 

 

 

 

I don't care about his particular feelings as well.

It's the underlying racism in posts like those, that strikes a nerve with me!

As if a white guy in a suite never ever raped any woman on this planet!

[wow64]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

You think the girl in question had no idea? She's travelled around SE Asia and spent considerable time in Vietnam, so I'd guess she's as aware, and probably more aware, than many on this forum. She wasn't wearing a bikini ... so looks like she took the PM's advice. Bad things can happen anywhere in the world, and no precaution is ever 100% - so let's not blame the victim. You have a career? 

 

 

 

 

Why are you blaming the Victim its not her fault and she didn't ask to be the victim. She was the Victim of an attempted rape. 

 

"You have a career" well yes I am ex SAS. Retired now just a body guard for VIPs in BKK.

[AlexRich]

8 minutes ago, wow64 said:

 

Why are you blaming the Victim its not her fault and she didn't ask to be the victim. She was the Victim of an attempted rape. 

 

"You have a career" well yes I am ex SAS. Retired now just a body guard for VIPs in BKK.

 

Am I blaming the victim? Read my posts, and show me!

 

Ex-SAS? ... there's seems to be more Ex-SAS people in Thailand alone than they ever recruited in their history. Special services folk don't disclose on forums ... they might do with friends and family, discreetly. But at least you made me ... 

 

[Mook23]

And then an ex SAS entered the discussion. 555.

 

This op is plain simple: the rapist is bad and should be punished. The girl is victim and should be supported. End of story.

 

Now back to feeding the ducks. The male ducks arent the friendliest beings either according to the female duckines...

[Songlaw]

6 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Rather utopian to combat rape by appealing only to a sense of male decency.

 

I'm not sure why you bring prostitution into it, but if you try to rule that out of society on moral grounds then there'll only be more deranged men prowling around, not less.

 

There are various measures can be taken to reduce rape (including women learning how to protect themselves) but I don't see how you can rule out completely the existence of brutes at the bottom of society who are not getting any.

 

 

 

 

There is nothing utopian about this world, or my view of it. I am expounding on ways to change the tenor of a needlessly dark human existence that for millennia we have superimposed on an already difficult physics-based reality. I stand by my statements. They are based on a lengthy observation of species-wide suffering. Do with them what you will. I make allowances for nothing. If you do not personally feel compelled to step up to the plate on these issues, and they are related, truth be told, I could care less. I am appealing to they who might choose to adopt a component of a pragmatic, gradual, long-term solution. I've been 'preaching' to the deaf for what seems like eons. I can only lead to water. I cannot make anyone drink. So it goes.

[metisdead]

Offensive posts have been removed. 

[AlexRich]

14 minutes ago, Songlaw said:

 

There is nothing utopian about this world, or my view of it. I am expounding on ways to change the tenor of a needlessly dark human existence that for millennia we have superimposed on an already difficult physics-based reality. I stand by my statements. They are based on a lengthy observation of species-wide suffering. Do with them what you will. I make allowances for nothing. If you do not personally feel compelled to step up to the plate on these issues, and they are related, truth be told, I could care less. I am appealing to they who might choose to adopt a component of a pragmatic, gradual, long-term solution. I've been 'preaching' to the deaf for what seems like eons. I can only lead to water. I cannot make anyone drink. So it goes.

 

Im not so sure, just read your post and I feel like a drink ... or two! 

[Patsycat]

I am getting two thoughts on this from you lot.

 

The first - she asked for it.  That is the most abhorrent thing ever, she did not.

 

The second - hope she gets better.

 

I go for the second. 

 

Hannah, stay strong xx

[metisdead]

Offensive posts and replies have been removed.

[ddavidovsky]

15 hours ago, Songlaw said:

 

There is nothing utopian about this world, or my view of it. I am expounding on ways to change the tenor of a needlessly dark human existence that for millennia we have superimposed on an already difficult physics-based reality. I stand by my statements. They are based on a lengthy observation of species-wide suffering. Do with them what you will. I make allowances for nothing. If you do not personally feel compelled to step up to the plate on these issues, and they are related, truth be told, I could care less. I am appealing to they who might choose to adopt a component of a pragmatic, gradual, long-term solution. I've been 'preaching' to the deaf for what seems like eons. I can only lead to water. I cannot make anyone drink. So it goes.

 

We're talking about combating rape in society - kindly don't implicate me personally. Your philosophy simply requires every man on earth to 'step up to the plate'. A tad unrealistic. And if some people don't, you say you don't care. The logic of that loses me.

 

There may be a few people in the world who are in complete control of themselves, but only a few. Everyone is different. Rapists are sexually frustrated brutes (brutes meaning low-empathy). An appeal to their morals is worthless - they are not even reading.

 

A conservative society in which it is hard to get a girlfriend encourages rape (see the situation in India). Prostitution at least provides some kind of outlet, and the enlightened state should make sure it is safely available - as in Singapore nowadays. However - this is the crux - there's no way to completely eradicate sexually frustated brutes. Hence women need to act prudently and learn how to protect themselves.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

We're talking about combating rape in society - kindly don't implicate me personally. Your philosophy simply requires every man on earth to 'step up to the plate'. A tad unrealistic. And if some people don't, you say you don't care. The logic of that loses me.

 

There may be a few people in the world who are in complete control of themselves, but only a few. Everyone is different. Rapists are sexually frustrated brutes (brutes meaning low-empathy). An appeal to their morals is worthless - they are not even reading.

 

A conservative society in which it is hard to get a girlfriend encourages rape (see the situation in India). Prostitution at least provides some kind of outlet, and the enlightened state should make sure it is safely available - as in Singapore nowadays. However - this is the crux - there's no way to completely eradicate sexually frustated brutes. Hence women need to act prudently and learn how to protect themselves.

Rape is about power and control - not sexual frustration.

[ddavidovsky]

38 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Rape is about power and control - not sexual frustration.

 

Disagree completely. That theory comes from those who are simply afraid of everything. Social neuroticism.

Power and control issues are active and competitive. Thugs take that out on their peers - get into fights, join gangs, engage in macho contests, sports etc. There's no macho prestige in overpowering a woman, just the opposite - it's a sign of weakness.

Sexual frustration, on the other hand, is passive - it's beyond their control - but is real and overpowering. Some guys prowling around are incendiary devices of surplus hormones. 

[Patsycat]

Rape is about all of those three things.

 

Even masturbating on a person against their will is rape.

 

And masturbating on a person who is not able to get up and run is rape.  It's got nothing to do with penetration, which i believe this guy would have done if he could have.

 

I too would have bitten off more than his ear.

 

Any news on Hannah's recovery?   Having her family with her must help a lot.

 

And may i add, I hope she doesn't read some of the comments on this thread.  Which, in my mind, are disgusting.

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, Patsycat said:

Rape is about all of those three things.

 

Even masturbating on a person against their will is rape.

 

And masturbating on a person who is not able to get up and run is rape.  It's got nothing to do with penetration, which i believe this guy would have done if he could have.

 

I too would have bitten off more than his ear.

 

Any news on Hannah's recovery?   Having her family with her must help a lot.

 

And may i add, I hope she doesn't read some of the comments on this thread.  Which, in my mind, are disgusting.

 

The definition of rape is dependent on the jurisdiction it is prosecuted in.

 

I don't know how it is defined in Thailand by the court system but I highly doubt your very loose interpretation is correct for Krabi or many places on the globe. 

 

Rape is typcally defined by penetration.

[Patsycat]

Penetration where?  In her vagina?  What about her mouth?

 

The man sexually abused her for hours while she was lying helpless.  I would presume he did not only wank over her.

 

She said herself that she was abused sexually, not penetrated, but every other type of abuse.

 

If you think rape is only when penetration takes place,  you are absolutely disollusioned.

 

Rape happens when a woman or man who say no mean no.

 

And the person abusing them carries on with the abuse. as in Hannah's case.  Sadly.

 

 

[Songlaw]

10 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

We're talking about combating rape in society - kindly don't implicate me personally. Your philosophy simply requires every man on earth to 'step up to the plate'. A tad unrealistic. And if some people don't, you say you don't care. The logic of that loses me.

 

There may be a few people in the world who are in complete control of themselves, but only a few. Everyone is different. Rapists are sexually frustrated brutes (brutes meaning low-empathy). An appeal to their morals is worthless - they are not even reading.

 

A conservative society in which it is hard to get a girlfriend encourages rape (see the situation in India). Prostitution at least provides some kind of outlet, and the enlightened state should make sure it is safely available - as in Singapore nowadays. However - this is the crux - there's no way to completely eradicate sexually frustated brutes. Hence women need to act prudently and learn how to protect themselves.

 

I am comfortable with what I wrote, your seemingly superficial grasp of it, notwithstanding. Please read it again, carefully. I did not implicate you in any way. I believe there was an "if" in my statement, which puts the ball in your court. The choice, Mr. Davidovsky, is yours to make. Depending on which way you go on this, you may or may not implicate yourself. What I am offering is a tedious, but pragmatic manner in which to combat the permissive atmosphere which has permeated our global environment. We are failing as a species, due in large part to a woeful lack of role-modeling and wanton entitlement. Nothing I suggested is either related to, or an appeal for morality. Appeals to morality simply do not work. However, peer pressure does. So if male members of our global society 'step up' and begin behaving themselves in significant numbers, attitudes on the parts of both genders are likely to improve.

 

The 'brutes' as you call them comprise only a small part of this problem. As for your tenacious defense of prostitution, the reason that many cannot obtain girlfriends, is economic, as much as anything else, which makes prostitution as an outlet for these individuals, dubious at best. Scenarios like those in India, are due to no one in the pack, or in the surrounding area, being willing to risk confronting the herd. This is a failing on the parts of fathers and brothers, pure and simple, and the reason I made this appeal. Rape stems from anger born of powerlessness (the inability to obtain anything, not only girlfriends being a major contributor), and unrealistic/unmet expectations, paired with arrested maturation. We see examples of this all the time in LOS, as well as many other places.

 

This issue is quite a bit more complex than you let on. If a person is left to feel invalidated, unworthy, unloved or ignored long enough, violence becomes a high-probability outcome. In the end, it is a matter of respect. Respect of self, as well as respect of the selves of others, which unfortunately, only males can adequately impart to other males. I am not budging on this. Which should be of surprise to no one.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Songlaw
Needed a paragraph split.