Bar Owners

[Yohan]

Thailand has a problem, a huge problem with prostitution.

It would do far better as a Holiday Destination for families, this has been stated many times by the Government and the Tourism of Thailand (TAT).

Which methods of Policing would you use then. If you do not agree that Bar Owners should be held accountable then what would you do? this is the question.

Constructive Question me thinks.

1- I do not think, Thailand has such a huge problem with prostitution now, if you compare it to Thailand 30 years ago......

2- I do not think, Thailand has such a huge problem with prostitution if you compare it with many other countries in Asia, Africa, Europe, Latin America....

3- I am not against prostitution, but I do not like it, if a feminist is coming and explaining me, that this is a woman right.....and another feminist is crying, how all men are abusing the women....

4- Thailand is already both, a holiday destination for families, and a destination for prostitution....and more than that.....if you look for peace, you will find peace, and if you look for wild nights with exotic girls, you will find it too.....It is up to you....

Even my father 97 years old is still visiting Thailand, my 2 daughters, and my father-in-law and my mother-in-law (84 and 77 years old......)

Just depends where you are going in Thailand....

5- Bar Owners....etc....it is just a small group out of a wide area, where you can look for prostitution..... this will not reduce prostitution at all, and maybe will just have the opposite effect....as girls or boys will move away into more hidden places which are much more difficult to control.....no way...

You might find prostitution in Thailand easily by internet or mobile phone, in some streets, talking to taxi-drivers or motor cycle drivers and so on.....

I do not smoke and do not drink alcohol, and I never took a girl from a bar, and this does not mean, that I never had a Thaigirl in my hotelroom....

Maybe better to check all hotel-rooms....this makes more sense than to check the bar-owners.....

I think, all that proposals makes no sense...what to control, whom to control????

6- The only what you can do, is to bring up some general rules, like to protect children (20+ obligatory) - to carry and show an ID-card - regular health controls... to confiscate weapons and drugs....and so on.... most of that checks are already existing in Thailand anyway....

Johann

[davethailand]

http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?15967

credits to another member , but a good one

excellent

[davethailand]

what a great toy

http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?36401

[Yohan]

http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?15967

credits to another member , but a good one

excellent

I do not think, that this provocation is so *excellent*

I wonder, what a serious administrator really could do?

Banning ERCO?

Banning Darknight?

If you think, Erco should be banned, then Darknight should be banned as well...

Or maybe banning some more users?

Or just let it run as it is?

Or to delete some posts?

Any ideas? Any comments?

Some comment from an administrator would be appriciated.

By the way, are links allowed directly on the posting?

When I pasted a link to my own (non-commercial) homepage on this forum outside of my profil (signature and posting), it was quickly told to me, that I have to remove it.....

Johann

[MsNina]

excuse me as i wade into this topic, completely unaware of the sites internal politics...

I believe that prostitution is a form of violence against women. Prostitution reduces a woman's body to a commodity to be bought and sold by men. Men are prostituted too, but this is also for men, not for women. Whether or not a woman 'chooses' to enter prostitution, or whether she is forced into - either through circumstance or direct violence - is irrelevant: we should not live in a society where it is even an option for women to be bought and sold by men.

Legalisation of prostitution only increases the problem, rather than decreases it or makes it easier regulate. If you look around the world - including places like Amsterdam or Australia - legalisation of prostitution only makes it easier to hide extreme exploitation, like the trafficking of women, within the legal prostitution, as police rarely conduct investigations into legal brothels. Where prostitution is illegal and there are vice squads, a lot more is known about crimes against women in prostitution and it is more difficult and less lucrative for criminals to exploit women in prostitution.

Not only does legalised prositution make it easier to hide prostitution-related crime, but it also sends out a normative message that it is OK for men to buy and sell women. Legalisation of prostitution and pornography increase access and exposure and only further entrenches prostitution within our society.

And FYI, prostitution is not the oldest 'profession' - asides from the fact that prostitiution is not a form of work but is a form of abuse, I believe you'll find that midwifery is the oldest profession!

[Georgie-Porgie]

I'm pretty sure that she is having us on.

[MsNina]

you think I am having you on or someone else??

coz it's definitely true about the midwives...

and everything else.

[taxexile]

i dont think so,this is from one of her other postings,

I should also emphasise that I am a feminist woman and have no interest in mingling with the men who sustain the exploitation of women and children in Thailand's sex industries. 

feminist.... you probably have no idea of what it means to be feminine.

exploitation of women..!!!!

take a look at what goes on here and then tell me who is exploiting who.

you would be proud of your sisters.

agree with you about the children though.

[Georgie-Porgie]

what a great toy

http://www.ryano.net/iraq/?36401

This is great. Please look!

[MsNina]

feminist.... you probably have no idea of what it means to be feminine.

no, actually i have an excellent understanding of femininity. It is a social construction designed to make women depillate their bodies so that they look like pre-pubescent girls, to burn fat and diet so that they have the stomachs of pre-pubescent girls, to totter around on high heels so that they are unsteady and vulnerable, to wear make-up etc. etc. etc.

I choose to be a woman rather than to be feminine.

exploitation of women..!!!!

take a look at what goes on here and then tell me who is exploiting who.

lol! perhaps you should like at the demand side of the equation, rather than the women who constitute the supply, to understand the who really is being exploited and who is the exploiter. If men weren't buying women in the first place, then women would not be pretending to be your girlfriend and taking you for a ride. And do you really think that Thai women want to be ###### you??? If there were real alternatives, they would take them. When we look at global political economy including structural inequalities between nations, lack of opportunities within Thailand, the consequences of militarism in Burma, the lack of citizenship of the hill tribes in Thailand, and demand for sexual exploitation of women by men... then I think we get a pretty clear of who is being exloited.

[Georgie-Porgie]

And do you really think that Thai women want to be ###### you???

She's got a point!

[Mai Krap]

Ms Nina,,,,,,,,, HOW MUCH FOR A SHORT TIME???????? ..... How many CATS do you have???? maybe I coulds fire Up the old the old BAR-B..... My TERYAKI MEOW is great with a bottle of WHINE....... Why dont you write it in a book and see if anybody will buy that femmininst B.S. .....

[Yohan]

I believe that prostitution is a form of violence against women.  Prostitution reduces a woman's body to a commodity to be bought and sold by men.  Men are prostituted too, but this is also for men, not for women.  Whether or not a woman 'chooses' to enter prostitution, or whether she is forced into - either through circumstance or direct violence - is irrelevant: we should not live in a society where it is even an option for women to be bought and sold by men.

Legalisation of prostitution only increases the problem, rather than decreases it or makes it easier regulate.  If you look around the world - including places like Amsterdam or Australia - legalisation of prostitution only makes it easier to hide extreme exploitation, like the trafficking of women, within the legal prostitution, as police rarely conduct investigations into legal brothels.  Where prostitution is illegal and there are vice squads, a lot more is known about crimes against women in prostitution and it is more difficult and less lucrative for criminals to exploit women in prostitution.

Not only does legalised prositution make it easier to hide prostitution-related crime, but it also sends out a normative message that it is OK for men to buy and sell women.  Legalisation of prostitution and pornography increase access and exposure and only further entrenches prostitution within our society.

This is not my first fight with a radical feminist woman (FYI there are also radical feminist men - somewhat I would call him a helpless idiot, who accepts all wishes or orders because they are given to him by a woman)

Hi, MsNina,

1-

First of all, if you want to reduce prostitution, you should begin in countries, where women are financially fairly good off, like in Europe or in the USA, which are female dominated societies.

Generally radical feminist women are NOT against prostitution - they do not find anything wrong by offering their body against money to men.

They are not against legalisation of prostitution, as this might only increase, but not decrease for sure, their income counted sometimes by hour or even by minutes.

You should talk first to the women, and then critizise the men!

2-

Feminist women however care a lot if a Caucasian man from Europe or USA is looking for international marriage. And it does not matter to them, if the girl is a bar-girl or not.... Any international marriage lowers the chance of a feminist woman looking to extort money from men.

A feminist woman does not like marriage without troubles and is looking for divorce with a good financial profit from the ex-husband.

This is one of the reason, that men out of Europe/USA are steadly looking for international marriage..... It is amazing to see, for how many already financially very well-off women love is going through the wallet of their husbands....

So do not blame the men, just look in a mirror and blame the women.

3-

Pornography, prostitution....in my home-country (Austria, Europe) over 40 percent of all young men in their 15s - 20s have the first sexual information out of pornography and the first sexual contact with a prostitute, no girl will come with you without paying her money......

Oh, sorry, I know.... it is ALWAYS the fault of the bad man....

This violence against women.....Buying women......

What else can a man do, except to pay the girl?

Any idea? Any comment?

4-

This is my message to all of the single men in Europe/USA and such places:

Do not even try it out!

I was an idiot, and I tried it out.....so I know about what I am talking....

Look for international marriage, I did so, I never regret it, 27 years married with a Japanese woman....and still married with the same woman....

It is easy for me, to read all these hate-mails from feminists after they try to hack my homepage, where I wrote all my opinion in details.

By the way, never saw a feminist woman, who really cared about her Filipina maid, who against low pay, made everything, what a feminist woman does not like to do, but is still somehow necessary, like cleaning the house, washing the dishes, baby-sitting, iron the dresses of madam....

Thank you,

Johann

[stumonster]

why do people discuss prostitution just in reference to sex?

I prostitute my body every time I go to work...not nesseccarily liking the companies I work for, their attitude towards people and the enviroment ...But it pays money... that I want to purchase the alcohol, food and the attentions of the opposite sex.

to think I might be able to save the world if I just went back to water and wanking...

[taxexile]

no, actually i have an excellent understanding of femininity. It is a social construction designed to make women depillate their bodies so that they look like pre-pubescent girls, to burn fat and diet so that they have the stomachs of pre-pubescent girls, to totter around on high heels so that they are unsteady and vulnerable, to wear make-up etc. etc. etc.

I choose to be a woman rather than to be feminine.

as i thought, you have no idea what femininity means.

hairy women can be feminine,fat women can be feminine,old women can be feminine, women in boots and braces can be feminine. women in burkhas can be feminine.

it has nothing to do with outward appearance, it has everything to do with what is within the woman. that is where the femininity comes from,it is a cerebral thing.

you will learn a lot about femininity when you come to thailand, hopefully you will lose some of your feminism. learn to love men.... not fight them

and for the record i am happily married,in love with my wife and do not use the sexual services industry. if i was single then i probably would use it.

[Richard W]

I AM 100% legal thanks.

...

i have male staff as a majority but i also have over 10 service reception girls, barfines are up to them but the majority of them are not barfinable and don't go with customers.

...

You probably will still say i employ prostitutes, i don't really care.

You sound like a man who could answer the following question. In a typical 'bar', i.e. 'takeaway brothel', where and when are the prostitution-related crimes under Thai law committed? Does a lot depend on how the deal is worded? If there is no such thing as a a 'typical bar', describe the places on Patpong 1. (They may be more complex; there may be issues with 'side rooms'.)

Incidentally, are there English terms which can distinguish the places primarily retailing drink and the places that seem to primarily retail sex (even if they do make a lot of profit from the drinks)?

[Mai Krap]

I dont know about all this HAIRY, FAT , OLD, BOOT WEARING FEMALES,,,,, And to be FEMMINIST too,,,,,, Thailand should crack down on these undesirable charactors entering the KINGDOM.......

[sonthaya]

Jerco, don't you ever stop, and switch on the brain, that's if you got one

[davethailand]

I AM 100% legal thanks.

...

i have male staff as a majority but i also have over 10 service reception girls, barfines are up to them but the majority of them are not barfinable and don't go with customers.

...

You probably will still say i employ prostitutes, i don't really care.

You sound like a man who could answer the following question. In a typical 'bar', i.e. 'takeaway brothel', where and when are the prostitution-related crimes under Thai law committed? Does a lot depend on how the deal is worded? If there is no such thing as a a 'typical bar', describe the places on Patpong 1. (They may be more complex; there may be issues with 'side rooms'.)

Incidentally, are there English terms which can distinguish the places primarily retailing drink and the places that seem to primarily retail sex (even if they do make a lot of profit from the drinks)?

in response to your question,

if what you describe is true then i do not own a typical bar, you will not find a bar like mine in patpong, the main aim for my bar is of a non girl/sex orientated theme that provides a comfortable atmosphere for singles, couples even your grand parents.

stuff the gogo bars my aim is to provide something for the people who want to enjoy pattaya as a true hoilday destination.

erco is too stupid to realise that all bars are not the same.

i own a live music club, nothing more, nothing less.

where did you get the dumb idea that the typical bar is a take away brothel?

you obviousley have'nt got alot of knowledge about thailand.

[Mai Krap]

It aint even worth trying to tell people that have an AGENDA that some people live a somwhat normal life in PATTAYA or anywhere in THAILAND,,,, They aint gonna believe you..... Bunch of busibody save the world do gooders that they are.....

[Darknight]

for yohan

I wonder, what a serious administrator really could do?

Banning ERCO?

Banning Darknight?

If you think, Erco should be banned, then Darknight should be banned as well...

Or maybe banning some more users?

Or just let it run as it is?

Or to delete some posts?

Any ideas? Any comments?

You can't keep on banning me he yohan, tis would be getting to ridiculous

i actually wonder why erco's get so much slack lately ? mmm....

Anyway as i posted... credits to another forum member for this joke...

and i wont reveal his name... the general consensus in the community is not that erco should stay i must say , yohan.

Ignore Lovelycutie as specified earlier she is an admin and is building up her posting numbers,

dangerous quote erco !

[MsNina]

Wow, such vitriol and drivel.

Mai Krap, perhaps you should actually engage with my feminist 'b.s.' arguments rather than demonstrating your poor command of the English language. You might actually learn something! You would certainly exercise your brain.

Yohan... Where do I start? Your post is so preposterous that it is hilarious! I think you need to go back and re-sit Feminism 101. Firstly, there is no such thing as a radical feminist man! A man can be pro-feminist, but he certainly can't be a feminist, seeing as how men cannot speak on behalf of women (though they try...).

Secondly:

Europe or in the USA, which are female dominated societies

ROTFLMAO! Maybe you should let the women there know that. Because they still think that they're underrepresented in the decision-making spheres of public society, that they still do not have equal pay with men, that they do more housework than men, that men are still trying to control their bodies (see what Bush wants to do with abortion in the US) etc. etc.

I do however agree that we should start in Minority World countries in our attempts to reduce prostitution, because the superior and unjust purchasing power of men in these countries allows them to satisfy their demand for prostitute women all over the globe. If we tackled demand from these men, we would certainly reduce numbers of trafficked women and therefore numbers of all prostituted women.

Thirdly, as a radical feminist, I can say without equivocation that radical feminists are against the prostitution of women. I have spoken to women about this (and I am a woman - surely this gives me greater credibility here than you?!) - radical feminists and women in prostitution. I know what I'm talking about.

Fourth, re: your inability in Austria to attract women without paying for their bodies, perhaps you should just abstain till women want to sleep with you rather than maintaining and increasing the demand for prostitute women. Oh wait! As you said you can't get European women to sleep with you without paying for it so you'll be abstaining from sex forever... oh well, you'll just have to masturbate then.

Taxexile, seeing as how you're clearly such an expert in femininity - being a woman yourself? - perhaps you can explain what this 'cerebral' experience of femininity is?

Stumonster, you have an excellent point. Prostitution does seem to be the logical conclusion of capitalism, but there is still something different in kind, not just degree, about prostituting one's body to be used as a receptacle for another person's semen to prostituting oneself as a wage slave. Prostitution is still present in communist societies so it's clearly not just tied to capitalism.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Jerco, don't you ever stop, and switch on the brain, that's if you got one

Jerco has taken a well deserved rest from the forum

[konangrit]

MsNina,

Are your radical views restricted only to prostitution, or sex in general?

Also, do you not think it slightly hypocritical to dismiss male prostitution as they are "abused" by other men? By your twisted logic you should consider these male prostitutes as much victims as female prostitutes.

I agree that there are victims of prostitution, but I would argue that these are in the minority. Life is just not as black and white as you like to imagine it is. I cannot possibly see how driving this huge worldwide industry underground will possibly help the situation. I also don't see why you or anyone else for that matter should feel that they have the right to impose there own moralistic views on other consenting adults.

I may not be able to speak on behalf of women, but neither can you, as this is a world of individuals, and just because you happen to be a woman, doesn't necessarily mean that you share the same views as the next woman.

[Pink Mist]

excuse me as i wade into this topic, completely unaware of the sites internal politics...

I believe that prostitution is a form of violence against women. Prostitution reduces a woman's body to a commodity to be bought and sold by men. Men are prostituted too, but this is also for men, not for women. Whether or not a woman 'chooses' to enter prostitution, or whether she is forced into - either through circumstance or direct violence - is irrelevant: we should not live in a society where it is even an option for women to be bought and sold by men.

Legalisation of prostitution only increases the problem, rather than decreases it or makes it easier regulate. If you look around the world - including places like Amsterdam or Australia - legalisation of prostitution only makes it easier to hide extreme exploitation, like the trafficking of women, within the legal prostitution, as police rarely conduct investigations into legal brothels. Where prostitution is illegal and there are vice squads, a lot more is known about crimes against women in prostitution and it is more difficult and less lucrative for criminals to exploit women in prostitution.

Not only does legalised prositution make it easier to hide prostitution-related crime, but it also sends out a normative message that it is OK for men to buy and sell women. Legalisation of prostitution and pornography increase access and exposure and only further entrenches prostitution within our society.

And FYI, prostitution is not the oldest 'profession' - asides from the fact that prostitiution is not a form of work but is a form of abuse, I believe you'll find that midwifery is the oldest profession!

It was a pregnant prostitute that brought the midwife profession into existance elco I mean nina

[Yohan]

Yohan... Where do I start? Your post is so preposterous that it is hilarious! I think you need to go back and re-sit Feminism 101.  Firstly, there is no such thing as a radical feminist man!  A man can be pro-feminist, but he certainly can't be a feminist, seeing as how men cannot speak on behalf of women (though they try...).

Secondly:

Europe or in the USA, which are female dominated societies

ROTFLMAO! Maybe you should let the women there know that. Because they still think that they're underrepresented in the decision-making spheres of public society, that they still do not have equal pay with men, that they do more housework than men, that men are still trying to control their bodies (see what Bush wants to do with abortion in the US) etc. etc.

I do however agree that we should start in Minority World countries in our attempts to reduce prostitution, because the superior and unjust purchasing power of men in these countries allows them to satisfy their demand for prostitute women all over the globe. If we tackled demand from these men, we would certainly reduce numbers of trafficked women and therefore numbers of all prostituted women.

Thirdly, as a radical feminist, I can say without equivocation that radical feminists are against the prostitution of women. I have spoken to women about this (and I am a woman - surely this gives me greater credibility here than you?!) - radical feminists and women in prostitution. I know what I'm talking about.

Fourth, re: your inability in Austria to attract women without paying for their bodies, perhaps you should just abstain till women want to sleep with you rather than maintaining and increasing the demand for prostitute women. Oh wait! As you said you can't get European women to sleep with you without paying for it so you'll be abstaining from sex forever... oh well, you'll just have to masturbate then.

Hi, MsNina,

Reading your reply, I ask myself if you are really that, what you think about yourself, a radical feminist.....I do not think so, as your posting sounds me more from somebody, who likes the church and wants to help all the poors, me included in some way....

1-

Radical feminist is something different, and it is not out of my brain, just take a look to Jennworks in Portland Oregon, and you will see, what a radical feminist really is.

RADICAL FEMINISTS never will question ANYTHING, which is done by a woman, and prostitution including advertisements and organisations, like escort-services are not a target of critics by a radical feminist.....

I will forward you a statement from a radical feminist, where I was asking about directly for an explication about this matter, if you do not believe me.

There is indeed a feminist male....You can ask the owner of the site of Amptoons, who is hosting all these feminist sites in Portland, Oregon. He is one of that kind of men, who can only see bad men, and will accept every order told to him by women.

For him, according to his own posting, any man, who is considering international marriage or meeting women through correspondence and introduction is a worthless scumbag loser pig.... a really nice person is that in my eyes.

RADICAL feminists are often supporting racist ideas, as they do not like marriage across different race.

So in their eyes, (maybe in your eyes, too) I have a wife, who looks like a whore, and I am a white mad dog producing halfbreed Asians. These are personal emails, what I received from such radical feminists...

2-

Thank you for your advice, that a man, like myself, if he cannot find any EUROPEAN woman to accept HIM without demanding payment, then he should masturbate.....

There is another way for a much happier life, and this is international marriage and I know you do not like that, and you avoid it to mention it in your reply.

I just forgot about all these EUROPEAN women, and found an ASIAN girl, and I accepted HER. She also agreed and my Japanese wife is now my wife for 27 years, so really no reason to masturbate.....

This is a better solution for me, believe me.

Btw, my wife is not from the nightbar, she is a Japanese of average income, and not my babygirl, as we are about same age (27 years married and we are 52 years old now, to avoid any misunderstandings, do not explain me, that I bought a child-sex-slave instead of masturbation or such nonsense....)

3-

Women rights in my own country, which is a female dominated society....

retirement for men, 65-67 years old

retirement for women, 53-55 years old

husband dies, wife gets his pension for lifetime

wife dies, husband will not get a single cent

wife cheats the man, divorce only, if the man pays her support

man cheats the wife, divorce only, if the man pays her support

(this is NO typing mistake! Cheated by your wife is no reason for legal divorce!)

women: no military services, no services for old/disabled

men: obligatory military services or services for old/disabled (unpaid, 6 months)

shall I continue?

By the way, have you ever seen a female company boss, who will pay more salary to a woman, just because she is a woman and so much underpaid?

4-

It is not only the right for the woman, to accept or to reject the man, but I also have the right, to accept or to reject the woman - do not forget that.....

I have the right, to look for my female partner, and if I prefer a Asian bargirl to a high educated power-lady from Europe, then this is still my business and not your business.....

5-

About prostitution generally, I think, you are wrong here in Thailand.... First go to all these financially well-off escort-girls in Europe or USA and ask them to resign and to look for another job.....No need even to talk to the male clients.... Just as you are a woman, talk to your equals and ask them to resign from escort services and not to accept money from men.

Johann

[Marshy]

feminist.... you probably have no idea of what it means to be feminine.

no, actually i have an excellent understanding of femininity. It is a social construction designed to make women depillate their bodies so that they look like pre-pubescent girls, to burn fat and diet so that they have the stomachs of pre-pubescent girls, to totter around on high heels so that they are unsteady and vulnerable, to wear make-up etc. etc. etc.

I choose to be a woman rather than to be feminine

You choose to be a woman? Phaaa---

Maybe you should listen a little closer to what other women who are sick and tired of your bullsh## have to say!!!

Click link

scroll down

My Webpage

[MsNina]

Marshy, you got a little anger issue going on there? Chill, it's OK, you _don't_ have to listen to me or my 'bullshit'.

Yohan, I'm an atheist and I don't have the desire to waste my energy helping you.

I'm really not sure that you know what radical feminism is - remember that are a large number of different feminisms. If you really want to understand radical feminism, so that you can actually argue with me, read Sheila Jeffreys, Andrea Dworkin, Carol Pateman, Catherine Mackinnon or Germaine Greer.

I don't quite understand all the points you are trying to make, as you do not write coherently, but I think your fifth point was basically that it is up to women prsotitutes to stop prostitution. That seems to me to be more typical of a church attitude - saying that prostitute women are fallen women and sinners - than anything I've said. I believe that prostitution is a system of violence and abuse, that it is more often bad for women than good, that women in the industry should receive support and have the right for prostitution to be as lucrative and safe as possible while they're in it, and that men have the responsibility to stop prostitution.

Konangrit, not sure why you want to know about my views on sex. I generally hold radical political views if that answers your question.

I certainly do not dismiss the abuse suffered by male prostitutes and have a great amount of sympathy for them. The reason why I mentioned them was to pre-empt any kind of peurile argument along the lines of: "if you call prostitution is abuse of women, then what do you say about men prostitutes?"

I believe that most people in prostitution do not want to be there. This is based upon my work with women prostitutes in Australia, my research into prostitution and trafficking of women in Asia, and my extensive contact with people who have worked on these issues around the world. Most women in prostitution are survivors of abuse - I don't like to call them victims, but abuse and exploitation is an integral part of prostitution, not a minor thing which only happens to a minority of women. In fact, 50 - 90% of women in prostitution in Asia and Europe are victims of trafficking, so clearly, the 'victims' of prostitution constitute a majority.

I certainly do not want the sex industry driven underground - I want it eradicated. Big difference. The closest we've come to an ideal model is the Swedish model whereby the women prostitutes are completely decriminalised and only the men, the buyers of sex, are criminalised.

[Marshy]

No anger---Just the fax mam.

[Yohan]

...... that women in the industry should receive support and have the right for prostitution to be as lucrative and safe as possible while they're in it, and that men have the responsibility to stop prostitution.

.....................................................

I certainly do not want the sex industry driven underground - I want it eradicated.  Big difference.  The closest we've come to an ideal model is the Swedish model whereby the women prostitutes are completely decriminalised and only the men, the buyers of sex, are criminalised.

Yes, this is the typical radical feminist theory of a female dominated society in Europe, but sorry, it is nonsense........

1-

the man should pay everything, but is a criminal.

2-

the woman has the right, that prostitution is *lucrative* and innocent.....

3-

and you are telling me, you want to eradicate the sex industry???????

4-

and you are telling me, I should masturbate to remain innocent??????

Hahahahahahahahaha.................................

Hahahahahahahahaha.................................

Hahahahahahahahaha.................................

My Japanese wife (married since 27 years) is just asking me, what is so funny tonight, while typing some emails and replying to some postings........

Holy sh1t, it is good for me to live in Asia since almost 30 years.....

Johann