Nonprofit: Chelsea Manning faces 2 weeks in solitary

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, ClutchClark said:

 

When was the last time the Military Courts sentenced a man to death? 

 

Is death a mandatory sentence for his crime? I highly doubt it.

 

i could care a less if he lives or dies but the fact remains that he made personal choices which have resulted in his incarceration. 

 

How is he being tortured? Is his treatment different from other convicts in solitary? 

Genuine question.

 

Thanks

People being treated humanely don't try to kill themselves.

The choice he made to expose the military's dirty little secrets is the reason I consider him a hero. He did all of us a service.

[Ulysses G.]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

People being treated humanely don't try to kill themselves.

 

 

Sure they do. Especially the types that spy on their own country and are confused about their identity. He had mental problems long before he joined the military.

[Anthony5]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you consider they should be tortured too?

 

 

I guess you never listened to the song if you decide to make such an unrelated comment.

[PTC]

28 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

If Mr/Mrs Manning is insulted by my choice of pronoun then he/she is free to contact  me here to tell me so. 

 

Or are you saying you are feeling disrespected personally? 

 

Prisoner Manning (born male)  has made a personal choice to identify as a female. It is my personal choice to honor or not honor Mannings choice. 

 

Manning (or you) have no god-given right to tell me what words I can speak any more than I have a right to tell Manning to take off his skirt and put on a pair of man-pants.

 

Transgender people, like other minorities refused to be defined by others or the words others use for them. Minorities will take those words used to oppress or attempt to define them and own them. Queer, Nigger etc are cases in point. So what pronouns you use will have absolutely no impact on Chelsea Manning.

 

If I felt disrespected personally, I would have said this. Your attempt to define me is as paltry as your attempt to define Manning.

 

Transgender, as with all LGBT people conform with their genetics. It matters not what plumbing is present. It is not a choice. Whether you honor that or not is immaterial. It is your problem, not the transgender persons problem. I and other people have every right to fight against ignorance and bigotry and can call out anyone we please. You think I am mistaken on this, then go to an African American person and call him a nigger. I would imagine in most cases, your 'choice' would have consequences. Furthermore in many countries now, such speech is criminalized and I look forward to more instances of this happening.

 

You and the other people who discriminate against and disrespect LGBT people represent nothing, no authority, no social peer pressure, no moral high ground. Nothing but pure bigotry, hate and divisiveness.If you feel that this is being too emotional for you to cope with then tough titty. You put out hate then it will come right back at you.

 

Did you read the OP? You realize the action for which Manning is being punished? It reinforces my view that the military is completely out of its depth in handling a case like this. The repeal of DADT is still to recent for the military to have built up any skill set. As a result, the military is essentially torturing Manning and this is not justified irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the leaking issue.

Edited September 25, 2016 by PTC

[ClutchClark]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

People being treated humanely don't try to kill themselves.

The choice he made to expose the military's dirty little secrets is the reason I consider him a hero. He did all of us a service.

 

TBL,

 

Some of what he exposed may have done some people a service but it might have also exposed clandestine operations and placed soldiers in harms way.  I simply do not know but that is often what occurs with spying. 

 

But people have all sorts of reasons for attempting to kill themselves and it is not necessary for there to be cruel and inhumane treatment by the prison staff.

 

Manning may simply be looking at his future says and years spent in the confines of a prison and decided he would rather be dead. 

 

I hope we can both agree Manning has made certain choices and those choices have resulted in his incarceration. No one forced him to make those choices but the penalties were well known and Manning chose to take that risk. 

 

It is 100% Mannings own fault that he is not sashaying down the boardwalk in his little skirt and heels in the free world.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Sure they do. Especially the types that spy on their own country and are confused about their identity. He had mental problems long before he joined the military.

I'm really, really glad you brought that up. Sooooooo, the military puts someone with mental problems in a position where they can steal thousands of classified documents, and does nothing to guard against it. Sounds like the US "military" is run by extremely incompetent people.

As someone that served, I think that is a pretty reasonable assessment of the leadership.

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm really, really glad you brought that up. Sooooooo, the military puts someone with mental problems in a position where they can steal thousands of classified documents, and does nothing to guard against it. Sounds like the US "military" is run by extremely incompetent people.

As someone that served, I think that is a pretty reasonable assessment of the leadership.

 

I highly doubt Manning is the only military personnel with "mental problems" who handles classified documents BUT he is the only one who chose to expose those classified documents.

 

In a way I feel bad for Manning because he was young & impressionable and allowed himself to be manipulated/influenced by guys like Assange...but Manning always knew the significance of what he was doing.

 

[Xircal]

Two weeks solitary? He'll probably appreciate the break. Can have a good night's rest for a change instead of being catcalled by all the Pond life he normally has to deal with every day.

[Strange]

5 minutes ago, PTC said:

 

Transgender people, like other minorities refused to be defined by others or the words others use for them. Minorities will take those words used to oppress or attempt to define them and own them. Queer, Nigger etc are cases in point. So what pronouns you use will have absolutely no impact on Chelsea Manning.

 

If I felt disrespected personally, I would have said this. Your attempt to define me is as paltry as your attempt to define Manning.

 

Transgender, as with all LGBT people confirm with their genetics. It matters not what plumbing is present. It is not a choice. Whether you honor that or not is immaterial. It is your problem, not the transgender persons problem. I and other people have every right to fight against ignorance and bigotry and can call out anyone we please. You think I am mistaken on this, then go to an African American person and call him a nigger. I would imagine in most cases, your 'choice' would have consequences. Furthermore in many countries now, such speech is criminalized and I look forward to more instances of this happening.

 

You and the other people who discriminate against and disrespect LGBT people represent nothing, no authority, no social peer pressure, no moral high ground. Nothing but pure bigotry, hate and divisiveness.If you feel that this is being too emotional for you to cope with then tough titty. You put out hate then it will come right back at you.

 

Did you read the OP? You realize the action for which Manning is being punished? It reinforces my view that the military is completely out of its depth in handling a case like this. The repeal of DADT is still to recent for the military to have built up any skill set. As a result, the military is essentially torturing Manning and this is not justified irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the leaking issue.

 

What... the heck.... are you talking about? 

 

Do whatever you want I don't care, just don't tell me what to say or how to say it. 

 

Do you realize you just said that you would like to criminalize certain areas of speech? Are you kidding me?

[ClutchClark]

@TBL,

 

I do agree with you completely that the military failed by allowing Manning unrestricted access to so many classified documents. 

 

The scale of this breach should have been preventable.

[Ulysses G.]

7 minutes ago, PTC said:

 

You are that think skinned? 

 

 The answer is obviously no. You are not capable of dropping the constant baiting.

 

Somehow, I doubt if Mr Manning will appreciate 2 weeks in the Hole in a military prison.

[Ulysses G.]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm really, really glad you brought that up. Sooooooo, the military puts someone with mental problems in a position where they can steal thousands of classified documents, and does nothing to guard against it. Sounds like the US "military" is run by extremely incompetent people.

As someone that served, I think that is a pretty reasonable assessment of the leadership.

 

You maybe correct, however he is still responsible for his own actions. In truth, it was crazy for someone like him to join the military in the first place.

[PTC]

8 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

TBL,

 

Some of what he exposed may have done some people a service but it might have also exposed clandestine operations and placed soldiers in harms way.  I simply do not know but that is often what occurs with spying. 

 

But people have all sorts of reasons for attempting to kill themselves and it is not necessary for there to be cruel and inhumane treatment by the prison staff.

 

Manning may simply be looking at his future says and years spent in the confines of a prison and decided he would rather be dead. 

 

I hope we can both agree Manning has made certain choices and those choices have resulted in his incarceration. No one forced him to make those choices but the penalties were well known and Manning chose to take that risk. 

 

It is 100% Mannings own fault that he is not sashaying down the boardwalk in his little skirt and heels in the free world.

 

Bradley Manning leak did not result in deaths by enemy forces, court hears

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/bradley-manning-sentencing-hearing-pentagon

 

 Fourth Circuit Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson did. “The First Amendment interest in informed popular debate does not simply vanish at the invocation of the words ‘national security,’ ” Wilkinson wrote. “National security is public security, not government security from informed criticism.”

 

and

 

“The espionage statute has no applicability to the multitude of leaks that pose no conceivable threat to national security but threaten only to embarrass one or another high government official,”

https://www.thenation.com/article/did-bradley-manning-actually-harm-national-security/

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

11 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Do you realize you just said that you would like to criminalize certain areas of speech? Are you kidding me?

 

He definitely is not kidding. 

 

"Inside of many (so called) liberals, is a fascist struggling to get out."

[ClutchClark]

8 minutes ago, PTC said:

 

Bradley Manning leak did not result in deaths by enemy forces, court hears

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/bradley-manning-sentencing-hearing-pentagon

 

 Fourth Circuit Judge J. Harvie Wilkinson did. “The First Amendment interest in informed popular debate does not simply vanish at the invocation of the words ‘national security,’ ” Wilkinson wrote. “National security is public security, not government security from informed criticism.”

 

and

 

“The espionage statute has no applicability to the multitude of leaks that pose no conceivable threat to national security but threaten only to embarrass one or another high government official,”

https://www.thenation.com/article/did-bradley-manning-actually-harm-national-security/

 

 

 

That is a good post with relevant information and links and no name calling.

 

Nicely done. 

 

It does not appear that Mannings actions resulted directly in identifying clandestine operations and getting soldiers killed. 

[derator01]

Several posts have been removed from view which violate forum rules, and a member is on a posting holiday.  Please, show respect to other members, or don't post.

 

Apologies to the members with the appropriate replies.

[johnnywishbone]

I have known some who lived their lives as modest Thai ladies since age around 8.
Manning or Jenner are not in this category.
Just a walk on the "wild side"
Maybe not a permanent identity.
Just my thoughts.



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[johnnywishbone]

Regarding collateral damage and civilian casualties, as well as friendly fire casualties, in modern warfare, often whoever fires first survives.
It's the nature of the beast.
The glory is in the telling
Not the doing.


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