Some info here please regarding my friends wife just got refused boarding on plane

[wilkie111]

My friend and his wife where heading to the uk tonight on a hoilday (wife got refused to board the plane as there connecting flight was adu dabi then dublin then glasgow) now they refused her because she dosent have a visa for ireland ? ,transit on to glasgow which she has a visa for the uk now i have never heard of this and it has cost a lot of cash to change her flight to edingburgh tomorrow as well as the innconvenice of hubby gone on a head and wife gone home until return airport tomorrow? I have been to a lot off  countries and have transited with no call for visa can anyone help here and tell me if i think the airline is in the wrong here.?

[taiwangirl]

I think it depends on the country.  I believe that mainland China used to require a transit visa, even if you were only going to stay in the airport. 

 

However, looking at the Dept of Foreign Affairs for Ireland, Thailand is not listed as a country where the citizen requires a transit visa.

 

Schedule 5 - Transit Visas

If you are a citizen of one of these countries, you will need to apply for a transit visa

Afghanistan	Ethiopia*	Moldova, Republic of
Albania	Ghana	Nigeria
Cuba	Iran	Somalia
Democratic Republic of the Congo	Iraq	Sri Lanka
Eritrea	Lebanon	Zimbabwe       Ireland Dept of Foreign Affairs   At this point however, I am not sure what could be done.  I am thinking that the airline has a rule book that the employee was following.

[wilkie111]

i think the airport is at blame here as she has missed her flight now and had to purchase one tomorrow but an international airport is no mans land until you step out off the airport so showing you have a visa for the uk is prominent enough to board the flight if your destination visa is valid?

[taiwangirl]

6 minutes ago, wilkie111 said:

i think the airport is at blame here as she has missed her flight now and had to purchase one tomorrow but an international airport is no mans land until you step out off the airport so showing you have a visa for the uk is prominent enough to board the flight if your destination visa is valid?

Not always the case.  Even though in an international airport before you enter customs, you are still under the "jurisdiction" of that country.  That is why some countries require a transit visa. 

 

I am only familiar with mainland China requiring it, but it appears that Ireland does to for certain countries.

[wilkie111]

1 minute ago, taiwangirl said:

Not always the case.  Even though in an international airport before you enter customs, you are still under the "jurisdiction" of that country.  That is why some countries require a transit visa. 

 

I am only familiar with mainland China requiring it, but it appears that Ireland does to for certain countries.

yes different for some countries but if not say thailand ?

[KhunBENQ]

There was at least one similar thread about this (quite complicated matter).

You can also use this to check the official rules that the airlines refer to:

(doesn't matter that it is a KLM site, same for all, "timatic web")

https://www.klm.com/travel/kz_en/prepare_for_travel/travel_planning/travel_clinic/visaform.htm

 

Thread would better be moved to the "Visas and migration to other countries" forum.

[wilkie111]

20 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

There was at least one similar thread about this (quite complicated matter).

You can also use this to check the official rules that the airlines refer to:

(doesn't matter that it is a KLM site, same for all, "timatic web")

https://www.klm.com/travel/kz_en/prepare_for_travel/travel_planning/travel_clinic/visaform.htm

 

Thread would better be moved to the "Visas and migration to other countries" forum.

She was only in dublin for 2 & 1/2 hours transiting so not going through customs

[wilkie111]

Underlined states that if you have an onward flight that is within 24 hrs you dont need a visa so airline is wrong in my opinion



Visa required, except for Nationals of Thailand with a valid C

visa issued by the United Kingdom if they have first entered
the United Kingdom and been granted a stay of 180 days in the
United Kingdom, or: (SEE NOTE 56994) 
    NOTE 56994: Not applicable to C visas issued for the
   purpose of transit, marriage or to enter into a civil
   partnership. 
TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Visa required, except for Holders of onward tickets for a max.

transit For details, click here time of 24 hours.
Additional Information:

- Visitors holding passports containing a British inadmissible

  stamp could be refused entry.

[wilkie111]

R32) TWOV .... Transit Without Visa (TWOV): Passing through an international transit area of the airport in order to board a connecting (or to proceed by the same) flight, without entering the country (i.e. clearing immigration). Unless stated otherwise, passengers wishing to TWOV must: - be en-route to a third country (e.g. itinerary TYO-LON-TYO is not considered TWOV); - prove that they will continue their journey within the prescribed period (e.g. hold onward tickets); - have documents required for entry into the country of destination and for transit through countries en-route; - remain in the transit area (airside) or on the aircraft. Note: For transit purposes through China (People's Rep.), Hong Kong (SAR China) and Macao (SAR China) are considered as third countries, as they have their own entry regulations. Note: TWOV is not intended for those holding stand-by tickets, e.g. airline employees or other passengers travelling on industry discount. CHECK TINEWS/N1 - CANADA: UPDATE ON THE eTA REQUIREMENT FOR VISA EXEMPT VISITORS

[JusMe]

Even overflying the US means you must have a valid permit to enter the US.  For example, flying from Canada to Mexico requires US permission and a check of one's passport, even if the flight has no intention of landing in the US, i.e. it's a direct flight.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, wilkie111 said:

R32) TWOV .... Transit Without Visa (TWOV): Passing through an international transit area of the airport in order to board a connecting (or to proceed by the same) flight, without entering the country (i.e. clearing immigration). Unless stated otherwise, passengers wishing to TWOV must: - be en-route to a third country (e.g. itinerary TYO-LON-TYO is not considered TWOV); - prove that they will continue their journey within the prescribed period (e.g. hold onward tickets); - have documents required for entry into the country of destination and for transit through countries en-route; - remain in the transit area (airside) or on the aircraft. Note: For transit purposes through China (People's Rep.), Hong Kong (SAR China) and Macao (SAR China) are considered as third countries, as they have their own entry regulations. Note: TWOV is not intended for those holding stand-by tickets, e.g. airline employees or other passengers travelling on industry discount. CHECK TINEWS/N1 - CANADA: UPDATE ON THE eTA REQUIREMENT FOR VISA EXEMPT VISITORS

As recently as 2012, Dublin airport did not support TWOV as there are no air-side transit areas. All arriving passengers have to clear Irish Immigration regardless if they are transiting to another country or not. If the OP's friends wife has a return ticket booked via Dublin, there would be no issues as she will have fulfilled the primary stipulation of having "... a valid C visa issued by the United Kingdom if they have first entered the United Kingdom and been granted a stay of 180 days in the United Kingdom."

[metisdead]

Moving to the Visas and migration to other countries forum. 

[thailand49]

Don't blame the Airline,  sound like based on your story your friend dropped the ball, and left you with the problem?

 

Whoever purchased the ticket should have done their homework, if it was the travel agent get a new one. 

[alanrchase]

Could be a problem with the ticketing and baggage. I had a three legged flight once from Saudi Arabia to Bangkok. At check in they would only book me in for two legs of the flight. On arrival in KL I had to go through immigration and get my baggage and check in again to BKK. 

[stander]

I have flown Bangkok - Abu Dhabi - Dublin - Edinburgh, with Etihad a couple of times and you do have to pass through Irish Immigration.  

[keeniau96]

Re Alanrchase on 3-leg, last month I flew from Delhi-KL-Phuket. Plane change in KL but no immigration checkin. Got the HKT boarding pass in Delhi along with the one for KL.

[sandgroper2]

11 hours ago, wilkie111 said:

i think the airport is at blame here as she has missed her flight now and had to purchase one tomorrow but an international airport is no mans land until you step out ofairport f the so showing you have a visa for the uk is prominent enough to board the flight if your destination visa is valid?

I would be interested to know where you got the information that "  an international airport is no mans land until you step out of airport". 

[gandalf12]

12 hours ago, taiwangirl said:

I think it depends on the country.  I believe that mainland China used to require a transit visa, even if you were only going to stay in the airport. 

 

However, looking at the Dept of Foreign Affairs for Ireland, Thailand is not listed as a country where the citizen requires a transit visa.

 

Schedule 5 - Transit Visas

If you are a citizen of one of these countries, you will need to apply for a transit visa

Afghanistan	Ethiopia*	Moldova, Republic of
Albania	Ghana	Nigeria
Cuba	Iran	Somalia
Democratic Republic of the Congo	Iraq	Sri Lanka
Eritrea	Lebanon	Zimbabwe       Ireland Dept of Foreign Affairs   At this point however, I am not sure what could be done.  I am thinking that the airline has a rule book that the employee was following.

Possibly the USA is missing from the list. When I came from Canada through LAX I had to okay a transit fee but not get a visa as such.

[wilkie111]

20 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

I would be interested to know where you got the information that "  an international airport is no mans land until you step out of airport". 

you are on international land so you havent entered the country

[wilkie111]

1 minute ago, wilkie111 said:

you are on international land so you havent entered the country

 

1 minute ago, wilkie111 said:

you are on international land so you havent entered the country

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Extraterritorialities Antarctica Diplomatic mission Extraterrestrial real estate International waters International seabed Moon Outer Space International zone United Nations See also International organization

An international zone is a type of extraterritoriality governed by international law, or similar treaty between two or more nations. They can be found within international airports and can contain duty-free shopping. In areas of conflict there may be international zones called green zones that form protective enclaves to keep diplomats safe. Countries in conflict may also have international zones separating each other.

 

 

[alofthailand]

11 hours ago, wilkie111 said:

She was only in dublin for 2 & 1/2 hours transiting so not going through customs

Didn't India have a similar rule about needing a visa even for transit?

[lungnorm]

And I thought I had heard all the Irish jokes. Dave Allen would love this story.

[rapom]

13 hours ago, taiwangirl said:

Not always the case.  Even though in an international airport before you enter customs, you are still under the "jurisdiction" of that country.  That is why some countries require a transit visa. 

 

I am only familiar with mainland China requiring it, but it appears that Ireland does to for certain countries.

 

I fly LAX to BKK with a 3-hour layover in Guangzhou China. All you do is go through customs and then to departure gates, no visa. Guangzhou also has a 72-hour visa-free transit, where you can visit the city.

[alanrchase]

Re Alanrchase on 3-leg, last month I flew from Delhi-KL-Phuket. Plane change in KL but no immigration checkin. Got the HKT boarding pass in Delhi along with the one for KL.

Was nothing to do with KL per se. The problem was only being booked through on two legs of the journey at check in. I had bought the KL BKK ticket separately and maybe that is where the problem arose.

[jacko45k]

It would seem wise not to buy a ticket transitting in Dublin, personally I might limit it to one transit in the Middle East and no other European transits.

[TheFishman1]

not the airlines fault husband did not due is due deligein 

[Pdavies99]

17 hours ago, taiwangirl said:

Not always the case.  Even though in an international airport before yoI enter customs, you are still under the "jurisdiction" of that country.  That is why some countries require a transit visa. 

 

I am only familiar with mainland China requiring it, but it appears that Ireland does to for certain countries.

 

17 hours ago, taiwangirl said:

Not always the case.  Even though in an international airport before you enter customs, you are still under the "jurisdiction" of that country.  That is why some countries require a transit visa. 

 

I am only familiar with mainland China requiring it, but it appears that Ireland does to for certain countries.

Well I,ve been several times recently to Guangho (sorry about spelling) and stayed outside of Airport at a hotel...i was given a cardbord visa at the airport every time, no forms or anything.

[Donutz]

Why there so many post nit or barely related to the question at hand ("Does a Thai with UK visa traveling to the UK via Ireland need an Irish visa")?

 

Airliners are not immigration officials or even immigration/visa experts. They are known to get things wrong in less common or less straightforward cases. They also tend to be cautious or overly cautious. So wrongful denials do happen! If caught in that situation at the checkin counter try to see if they can check

1) the Timitac database, this is what airliners use as their primairy/first source on visa requirements. See the KLM site with this tool posted on page 1. Other airline websites have this tool aswell.

2) To contact the immigration authorities of the country concerned, the Irish.

 

This is what the tool says:

Quote

 

National Thailand (TH)          /Embarkation Thailand (TH)
Transit Ireland (Rep.) (IE)     
Destination United Kingdom (GB)
ALSO CHECK DESTINATION INFORMATION BELOW


 Ireland (Rep.) (IE)


Visa required, except for Nationals of Thailand with a valid C

visa issued by the United Kingdom if they have first entered
the United Kingdom and been granted a stay of 180 days in the
United Kingdom, or: (SEE NOTE 56994) 
    NOTE 56994: Not applicable to C visas issued for the
   purpose of transit, marriage or to enter into a civil
   partnership. 
TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Visa required, except for Holders of onward tickets for a max.

transit For details, click here* time of 24 hours.
Additional Information:

- Visitors holding passports containing a British inadmissible stamp could be refused entry.

 

_______________________________________

----- end of page, extra info below -------

 

*

/ 28SEP16 / 1108 UTC

 

 

R32) TWOV
     ....

Transit Without Visa (TWOV): Passing through an international
transit area of the airport in order to board a connecting (or

to proceed by the same) flight, without entering the country
(i.e. clearing immigration).

Unless stated otherwise, passengers wishing to TWOV must:
- be en-route to a third country (e.g. itinerary TYO-LON-TYO

is not considered TWOV);
- prove that they will continue their journey within the

prescribed period (e.g. hold onward tickets); 

- have documents required for entry into the country of
destination and for transit through countries en-route;

- remain in the transit area (airside) or on the aircraft.

Note: For transit purposes through China (People's Rep.), Hong Kong (SAR China) and Macao (SAR China) are considered as third
countries, as they have their own entry regulations.

Note: TWOV is not intended for those holding stand-by tickets,

e.g. airline employees or other passengers travelling on
industry discount. 


CHECK TINEWS/N1 - CANADA: UPDATE ON THE eTA REQUIREMENT FOR
VISA EXEMPT VISITORS


Timaticweb Version 1.3
28 September 2016

 

The question also is if all passengers need to clear immigration in Ireland or not. Remaining on the airport side (international side, not passing immigration) Thai should not need a visa in most countries. Not for any European countries that I know of. So if it could be expected not to go through immigration then there should be no need for a visa. If however Dublin airport has no air side then there might be a need for a visa and a traveller should ofcourse do check this.

 

But even if a visa would be requires due to passing through Irish immigration, such a visa could be obtained at the border. Afterall EU Directive 2004/38 on Freedom of Movement applies. The EU court of justice MRax ruling further confirms this.  Meaning that an EU/EEA national (UK citizen here) traveling with non-EU/EEA (Thai here) family members to any other EU/EEA member ( Ireland here) will have the right to access and legally be in the country. That is if they can proof who they both are that there is a family relation and travel together. No additional info can be required. A visa should then be given on the spot and technically they would be legal without a visa. However the EU does stringly advice to get the proper visa before hand if one is required.

 

I do not know if one can remain airside in Dublin, if one cannot then in theory the law would still have let them access Ireland legally (visa at the border). Thus they could have traveller without Irish visa. But if a visa would have been required chanches of being allowed to board would have been slim. A lucky and persistant couple might, if the airliner would have been given a thumbsup from Irish immigration.

 

The tool/database refered to suggests that no visa would be needed because of an onward ticket within 24 hours. Had the airline checked perhaps they would have let her board. 

 

So a compliant and asking for the tickets to be refunded and compensation for the delay might not be unsuccesful! I would wait for a member who knows more about landing in Dublin on a UK visa though. Or let your friend conact the Irish and ask them? If they tell him she would have been fine, include that in a complaint, refund and compensation request.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Donutz

[bobrussell]

If Dublin is similar to the UK airports then you have to go through immigration control to join UK bound flights. If you do this then you are not in any form of immigration "no man's land". You have entered the country and have to possess the correct visa to do so if required!

People travelling to Heathrow, planning to go onwards to the Irish Republic have to comply with visa requirements as UK/Irish Republic flights are considered 'domestic' and not international.

As far as I can see Ireland does not appear to require a Thai passport holder to have a transit visa.

Sadly any airline is not compelled to take a passenger it does not want to.

This would suggest the airline is in error but what recompense you can claim probably depends on the contract you have signed! Worth contacting the airline and any credit card company (especially if UK based) to see if you can get a refund.

They may have made an error based on a visitor in transit visa being required if travelling to Dublin via London.

[sandgroper2]

23 hours ago, wilkie111 said:

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

Extraterritorialities Antarctica Diplomatic mission Extraterrestrial real estate International waters International seabed Moon Outer Space International zone United Nations See also International organization

An international zone is a type of extraterritoriality governed by international law, or similar treaty between two or more nations. They can be found within international airports and can contain duty-free shopping. In areas of conflict there may be international zones called green zones that form protective enclaves to keep diplomats safe. Countries in conflict may also have international zones separating each other.

 

 

Nothing to do with visas.