Blood Parasite, E-Canis, Anaplasma, Thai "Vets"

[Strange]

Can anyone tell me their experience with the these parasites, and (hopefully) the recovery process? 

 

Im becoming a hypochondriac on behalf of my dog. 

 

Had dogs my whole life in the states and never in my life have I seen anything like the way animals are treated at some of these Animal "Clinics" in Thailand, and the diseases the dogs die from here. 

 

Just lost a dog to Distemper (supposedly) and the process was AGONIZING. Dog got all vaccinations, boosters, de-wormers, etc, on time. Brought the dog into the vet due to white gums, lethargy, and lack of appetite and was told "Blood Parasite"... OK Took the dog home, administered the medication, and within 4 days, was having seizures, appeared to be blind, couldn't walk and when it tried to it would walk right into the wall like it wasn't even there. I had the dog in and out of the "Vet" daily, brought him in very early when the lethargy/pale gums presented and he just seemed tired and uninterested. I did nothing wrong on my part. In the end, he was "Admitted"  to the hospital, given an IV, and slowly deteriorated. The last 2 days of his life were spent in a constant blind seizure, covered in his own feces and urine, but he could still smell me and hear me and would try SO HARD to get close. The entire last 48 hours of his life I was BEGGING the vets to euthanize him and they WOULD NOT do it, and in the end after so much pleading they agreed to prepare the phenobarbital ONLY if I was the one to actually press the plunger into the dogs IV, because they are heartless selfish bastards and don't want to get "bad luck" from "killing" an animal. Do not care about the cultural aspect of it, its retarded and cruel and selfish. 

 

So, now, I have a another dog that has come down with the same symptoms, Pale gums, Lethargy, loss of appetite, and dropped everything, drove 350 kilometers to ThongLor Pet in Bangkok. Don't care about cost, please fix my dog. They ran preliminary blood test that showed low platelets, preformed 2 other blood tests, urine and feces, blood smear and SNAP test. 

 

Results are that apparently it was caught very early and that he has Regenerative Anemia (cause of the pale gums, lethargy, etc....) witch is cause by E-Canis and Anaplasma parasites from Ticks. So after all this, I'm 99% positive that my other dog did not die from Distemper, he died from these parasites and the heartless vets at the animal "Clinic" used this as a cop-out. 

 

Now I've got to stay in a dog friendly hotel in Bangkok for a week to administer the meds and take him in for another blood workup to see if he is recovering or if we have to switch meds. 

 

Vibramycin (Doxycycline)

Clindamycin

Drontal Plus for Dogs (De-wormer) 

Ferro-B (Blood Supplement) 

 

I swear to god if a dog lives to old age here in Thailand, its like surviving a dog apocalypse. 

 

Anyone else's dog have these parasites and the dog survived? Is there anything else I can do? I Trust ThongLor Pet and don't care about the cost, but geez.... 

[dick dasterdly]

I'm afraid I don't really understand your post.

 

You said that your dog was diagnosed with 'blood parasite', but died from distemper?

 

Good vets have a quick test for tick-borne blood parasites.  They then give the dog an injection, to counter-act the nasty effects of another injection given ten minutes later to kill the blood parasites.  From memory, this has to be repeated at least one more time a couple of weeks later.

 

If your dog's gums are pale, then I think it is well beyond the initial stage (as that was when the dog I brought with me was put on IVs etc.).  Actually that is quite a funny story as my poor dog barked incessantly at the vets, so they let me take him home with IVs attached (and replacement 'bags').  It worked for both of us .

 

I've been through this a few times (or rather my poor dogs have been through this ), but mostly its been relatively simple.  Only one time has it been a life-threatening problem (with a dog that had come with me from the UK) - and that was when I found out about tick-borne blood parasites.

Edited September 29, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[wayned]

Meatboy has had some experience with blood parasites over the past year and I think that his dog is doing fine now.  Maybe he will be along shortly and give you some encouraging information.

[amykat]

Hi Strange,

 

Sorry to hear about all of this.  So you understand that your first vet probably misdiagnosed or lied to you for some reason.

 

Anyway, what they are calling blood parasites .... these are tickborne diseases caused by various infectious bacteria, we often just call it Lyme disease in the US.  In this case, Anaplasmosis and Ehrlichiosis  and that will cause the anemia. 

I think you can just read about it here:

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/anaplasmosis-in-dogs/6962

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2102&aid=430

 

I think you are getting the correct treatment, unless your dog needs blood transfusions.  You should be seeing quick improvement. If you don't see this, get better help.  Or make sure the vet is doing something, don't let the dog linger like last time (not saying that was your fault, just saying you will be wasting valuable time).

 

Be sure your dogs and YOU are not getting bit by ticks ...this is essential here.  Please PM me if you need help with this later.

[Goldieinkathu]

Sorry to hear your story about your fist dog here , it's heartbreaking to go through something like that.

I once took a puppy to be put to sleep that had distemper, it was in a terrible state with seizures and going blind ( just as you described) about 9 days later I had to call in to the same vet about another dog only to be told that the puppy I took in before had just died that morning I was shocked that it had not been put to sleep the day it went in.

These were all street dogs that at that time a local dog charity was paying the bill for.

Another much older dog died of tick fever and it had no symptoms at all except it wouldn't eat so I doubt your first dog died of tick fever.

 

Anyway to answer your question, I've also had many dogs over the years be struck with tick fever. Some have made it and some did not. Its not an easy disease to spot unless the dog is in your care and you can notice it's feeding habits and check it's gums etc.

But the one's I"ve caught soon enough have recovered very quickly with Doxycycline for a month along with a pill to protect the liver from the doxycycline. I wonder if you still had ticks around the house /yard from the last dog? They can live for a long time around the area, it might have been better had you got the pest control people in before bringing another dog in to that area.

Sounds like you've caught it soon enough - good luck!

[Goldieinkathu]

@amykat

From what I understand there is no Lyme disease here in Thailand.

[amykat]

Lyme disease, also known as Lyme borreliosis, is an infectious disease caused by bacteria of the Borrelia type

Lyme disease is transmitted to humans by the bite of infected ticks of the Ixodes genus. In North America, Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto and Borrelia mayonii are the cause. In Europe and Asia, the bacteria Borrelia afzelii and Borrelia garinii are also causes of the disease.

 

There are many other bacteria that can be transmitted by ticks and cause symptoms that are making people sick and it is being called "Lyme disease" as a sort of umbrella term.  It is a very complicated situation and there is a lot of controversy and misinformation out there.

 

A college friend of mine has been sick for some years now and is a huge Lyme disease activist, his actual diagnosis is "anaplasmosis" and one other bacteria that I cannot recall at this moment.  I did a LOT of reading about this subject and I can't possibly summarize it here.  Best to protect yourself from ticks.  Many people who suffer from illnesses like chronic fatigue syndrome and other similar mystery things may well have been infected at some point with some kind of tick borne disease. 

 

(As far as I remember, it is very hard to test for this, for a variety of reasons. So we have very few proven cases in the US and in Europe compared to what might really have occurred.  Next, nobody is testing people for this in Thailand, so of course nobody will find what they are not testing for.)

[amykat]

Sorry Strange, when I first answered you, I thought you didn't know that ticks were involved in your dog's illness.  I missed where you did mention ticks.  Sometimes the vets here are just calling this "blood parasites" and not explaining anything to people which I thought was the case ...or sometimes they call it "tick fever" like the poster above called it.  I didn't mean to tell you a bunch of stuff you already knew!!

 

I hope your dog is doing better!!!

Edited September 29, 2016 by amykat

[ammagic]

Just been through all that. Despite religious use of Frontline & Seresto tick collars - one dog had a tick bite which despite treatment got worse & worse. He ended up with Thrombocytopenia - inability to form platelets. My vet in Chiang Mai advised adding in antibiotic Baytril & as well as heavy duty steroids & Iterferon. After one week he is no longer at death's door TG! You have to do so much research yourself & keep fighting. Sorry to hear about your experience. I will think about Thonglor if we have further difficulty

[NickJ]

my five kilo female has survived. She is fourteen this year. She has been here since 2004. She has had the tick parasite four times. I keep her indoors. Spent a small fortune on prevention. 

This year has been fine. We moved and no more ticks. Anyways.....it's a never ending battle. Dog Apocalypse is right.

I could write a book.

Good luck. 

I started doing a monthly blood test. CBC and Chem. So if anything changed I could jump on it. The printouts are exactly the same for a human. 

The simple spot test for parasites just checks for antibodies so you need to do the pcr.  When the dog is cleared, after treatment the spot test will still be positive for three months.

The pcr is about 3000k and checks for parasite DNA.

Edited September 29, 2016 by NickJ
None

[ammagic]

What is a pct?

[ammagic]

Pcr

[ammagic]

I have just been through hell with one of my dogs. At death's door with tick bite related Thrombocytopenia - immune system attacking ability to form
Platelets. He was on doxi for months - we added in Baytril, steroids, Interferon, blood support& liver support. We are winning the battle now but not out the woods yet. I spend a fortune on tick prevention - a never ending nightmare!

[meatboy]

strange i have sent you a personel message.

ammagic try and go back to march 2015.read my postings,there is over more than a yr.on the tick problems and bigger ones are

VETS.                                  i am having problem with our internet supplier [T.O.T.] SO MOST OF THE DAY ITS OFF.

 

[amykat]

Okay, I hate to wade into this topic because many people usually get upset for some reason.  But for ultimate tick control in Thailand, you really need to use Ivermectin.  That is the active ingredient that is used in Heartgard that kills Heartworm, but in larger doses, it will kill ticks.  The other ingredient in Heartgard is a dewormer that is not used against Heartworms.  So, if you start using Ivermectin straight, you can stop Heartgard. 

 

I believe your vets will usually not tell you about Ivermectin because using this will cost possibly a few hundred baht per year (depending on what form you use, the amount of dogs you have, and their weight, as compared to you purchasing Heartgard, Revolution, Frontline, Tick collars, and the numerous vet bills you still incur when your pets still get sick with various tick illnesses.)

 

I also used all of these products, as well as monthly pest control at my houses, and still had ticks. I have a large pack of dogs.  I have been here for 12 years.  I screwed around with that for the first 2 years.  Then I switched to only Ivermectin.  (There is one serious caveat with Ivermectin which is about Collie breeds, herding breeds, which have a sensitivity to this drug.  They can die from it, so you may not give it to them or only give a much smaller dose.) What I do, is give a much smaller dose to my one dog of this breed to protect against heartworm ,  then give Revolution to him, and then Ivermectin to all others.  I have no ticks ever.  No dog has ever had a tick illness, well that I can determine, or that has required treatment from a vet.

 

As a side note, some of the doctors who are treating tick borne illnesses in humans are using Ivermectin off label.  Many people are treating themselves with it, as they can't get treatment through insurance companies and they feel they get results.  I have adopted dogs that were loaded with ticks and lived in the street for years, and also had heartworm.  A valid treatment is short term doxy along with larger doses of Ivermectin monthly.  Same as my tick routine basically (but not the doxy). Anyway, those dogs, with those problems, are fine after after several years of living with me and don't have heartworm now.

 

Also, supposedly, many of these illnesses are transmitted at a stage when the tick is so small you really can't see it, like small as pencil dot.  Maybe I sometime do have ticks? ( I wonder if getting regular Ivermectin is "curing" any problems when and if they start?) 

 

Anyway, there are various ways to go about giving your dog Ivermectin and I don't suggest just doing any old thing, or just trusting any crap you find at a pet store here, or letting some unreliable vet you can't communicate with inject you dog.  For people who are scared about it, I suggest starting with a lower dose ...the suggestions are a range ...so start with half the of the suggestion if you like ...the dose that protects your dog from heartworm is the most important and that is miniscule in comparision , so you will be protected ....then see if you get ticks or not and see that your dog is still fine?  (However, if you dog is a soi dog and is currently infested with ticks, then I don't suggest starting with half the dose ...)

 

 

 

[NickJ]

Sure....it will get rid of ticks. I used it on my dog religiously.  What the point is. Is that the ticks will still transmit the parasite. Then die from the med. Also, these ticks,  when young are so tiny. A dog could have twenty of them in a toe Web within a minute. 

[amykat]

Well Nick, I know you are doctor, and this info isn't available on wikipedia, but it is available, that Ivermectin may be some kind of treatment for tickborne diseases.  It is a treatment for heartworm.  Are those other things you are using any kind of treatment for anything?

 

 

[amykat]

Ivermectin is a medication that is effective against many types of parasites.^[1] It is used to treat head lice,^[2]scabies,^[3]river blindness,^[4]strongyloidiasis,^[5] and lymphatic filariasis, among others.^[6] It can be either applied to the skin or taken by mouth. The eyes should be avoided.^[2]

Common side effects include red eyes, dry skin, and burning skin.^[2] It is unclear if it is safe for use during pregnancy, but is likely acceptable for use during breastfeeding.^[7] It is in the avermectin family of medications and works by causing an increase in permeability of cell membrane resulting in paralysis and death of the parasite.^[2]

Ivermectin was discovered in 1975 and came into medical use in 1981.^[6][8] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the most important medications needed in a basic health system.^[9] The wholesale cost in the developing world is about US$0.12 for a course of treatment.^[10] In the United States it costs $25–50.^[5] In other animals it is used to prevent and treat heartworm among other diseases.^[1]

[Strange]

OK so I just got back from Bangkok and Thonglor Pet. 

 

After 5 days of treatment with doxycycline and clindamycin the dogs blood levels are back in the normal range. Blood platelets were >50,000 and are now over 200,000 and within 3 days of treatment he is back to his normal self eating and full of energy. Was informed to continue treatment for 28 days, but they want me to go back and re-test in 2 weeks. Happy to do it and will make the drive again. 

 

Thonglor pet was great, wasn't expensive, they seemed to actually care and it was very refreshing to see other people (foreigners and thai) bringing their animals in that were well cared for. One thai girl brought a ferret in on a leash and was having it vaccinated. The first round of tests was a walk in at night, and came out to 3,500 baht, second round of tests was like 2,300 baht. 

 

Ive been a dog owner and around dogs my whole life. House dogs, hunting dogs, name it. When a dog is not acting like itself and gums look paler than normal, its vet time. I don't wait until its about to die or won't move. This time with Thonglor the dog was not acting right and within 3 days of the symptoms appearing he was on the vets table in BKK. He is not out of the woods yet, but hopefully this helped. 

 

The vet recommended human grade pfizer doxycycline (Vibramysin) and human grade pfizer clindamysin (Dalacin) and I opted for this. 28 days of these medications all cut up and dosed properly for the dogs weight, along with blood supplements, are included in the price I mentioned above. Could I have used the cheaper generics, or animal grade stuff? Yeah probably but considering that these meds could be potentially life saving, the choice was easy. 

 

We will see over the next few weeks but right now he is fine thank god. 

 

[meatboy]

what a relief,you were at the best place in bkk.we to were told that the animal hospital we eventually went to in korat was the best around and yes it was cheaper than the parasites that were ripping us off and nearly killed our boy.sice he came home from ittivet in korat he has been a different dog,one who's enjoying his life.

if it does mean you have to travel SO BE IT our travel is only an hr.back and fo.my love for my boy helped me overcome the fear of driving on these roads.

good luck to your boy and do make a full recovery. 

meatboy love me love my dog.

[isanbirder]

Meatboy, I think you're confusing your parasites!

 

Once you find a good vet, stick with him.  There are plenty not so good.

 

And, as I've said to Meatboy before now, trust your dog.  He knows when he's sick.

[meatboy]

16 hours ago, isanbirder said:

Meatboy, I think you're confusing your parasites!

 

Once you find a good vet, stick with him.  There are plenty not so good.

 

And, as I've said to Meatboy before now, trust your dog.  He knows when he's sick.

 

16 hours ago, isanbirder said:

Meatboy, I think you're confusing your parasites!

 

Once you find a good vet, stick with him.  There are plenty not so good.

 

And, as I've said to Meatboy before now, trust your dog.  He knows when he's sick.

we were recommened ittivet animal hospital outside korat,when we went there he [vet] couldnt believe the record we had of the past 

18months.his service and the staffs was excellent and put him right in just over a month.

we were told its exspensive,no not at all,they were cheaper than what we had been paying in the past.

i remember you saying if he appears well he more than likely is.

this past 6months he is totally a different dog,all i can say what the previous vets were giving him were making him so depressed and playing on our love for him.maybe calling them parasites was confusing they are more like ------- -------- DELETED.

[snowgard]

I don't know why this problem come up every year and no one reads the old threats.

 

1. First of all you can forget 95% of all vets here. They see your dog as a ATM/money making machine.

2. If your dog had ticks and after him feel unwell, the eye white start be red, can't walk, loose hair, ... it will be for sure Anaplamosis/Ehrlichiosis.

3. Treatment - Check the weight of your dog and give it Doxicycline Hydrat.

    5 - 10 mg/kg all 12 - 24 h over 2 - 3 month or 10 mg/kg 2 × daily for 2 - 3 weeks.

4. For 10 capsules you pay just 40 THB in pharmacy. Boots charge 120 THB in my last expirience.

 

For protection you can give monthly  injections or oral treatments of Ivemectin to your dog. I prefer oral.

http://www.luckypet-nst.com/product/728/ivermec-100-ml-ยาฉีดเห็บหมัด

 

This is enough for 3 german shepards for almost 2 years.

 

Take care your best friend.

 

 

 

[meatboy]

7 hours ago, snowgard said:

I don't know why this problem come up every year and no one reads the old threats.

 

1. First of all you can forget 95% of all vets here. They see your dog as a ATM/money making machine.

2. If your dog had ticks and after him feel unwell, the eye white start be red, can't walk, loose hair, ... it will be for sure Anaplamosis/Ehrlichiosis.

3. Treatment - Check the weight of your dog and give it Doxicycline Hydrat.

    5 - 10 mg/kg all 12 - 24 h over 2 - 3 month or 10 mg/kg 2 × daily for 2 - 3 weeks.

4. For 10 capsules you pay just 40 THB in pharmacy. Boots charge 120 THB in my last expirience.

 

For protection you can give monthly  injections or oral treatments of Ivemectin to your dog. I prefer oral.

http://www.luckypet-nst.com/product/728/ivermec-100-ml-ยาฉีดเห็บหมัด

 

This is enough for 3 german shepards for almost 2 years.

 

Take care your best friend.

 

 

 

i will SECOND your post.never a true'r word spoken. 

the tick season is not faraway and anyone wants to see my boy's record i have it all. UNBELEIVABLE

[snowgard]

Sorry, I meaned Doxicycline Hyclate!!! And I forget to say:

 

WARNING!!! Not every dog can take Ivermectin. Australian sheperds, Collies and some other can die about it.

 

Please google for it before you give it to your dog.

[meatboy]

for all you guys owning a dog for the first time,or are thinking about it,please read this forum. VETS,TICKS,SNAKES AND THE DANGERS.

keep them happy but most of all KEEP THEM SAFE.

meatboy love me love my dog.

[dick dasterdly]

The problem is that although various medications can kill ticks - they've already bitten your dog, and so passed on any tick-borne blood infections.

 

Edit - Which reminds me that I need to spray all the obvious places (now that the tick season is underway again ) to hopefully kill ticks before they reach my dogs.

Edited November 20, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[jak2002003]

Hi.  Both my small mix breed dogs got this tick blood liver parasite thing.. even though I use frontline and hardly every see a tick on them.

 

The first dog was only a puppy when she got it and nearly died.  The problem is that the dogs seem OK one day and suddenly go downhill fast... and if you wait a day or so to see if they get better the disease has got 100 times worse!.. The had to spend many days in the vest on a drip and was very weak. 

 

That is how I knew what to do when the second dog started showing the same symptoms about a year later.  I noticed when she was less active than normal.. a bit off her food, and her skin felt really hot under her belly.  Also a very important sign is the gums seem to go light pink from lack of blood and they start to breath faster than normal.  I rushed her to the vet and with the early treatment she got better very fast.

 

Then the smaller dog got it a second time.  Again prompt action.  Dog got better.. but the vets made a mistakes with the medication they gave me to take home.. and I was shocked when the dog suddenly got worse about a week later.. going back to the vet they were very rude to me and would not admit their mistake... trying to blame me for not giving the tables they gave to me... despite the fact they never gave them to me!!!  They had to treat the dog again from the start and they even charged me a second time.  The actual vet knew they made the mistake.. but he could not say anything to his boss.. because of the staff dispensing the medication would get into trouble or loose face.  So I now use a different vet.

 

So moral of the story is.. as soon as your dog seems slightly not acting normal, less active and pale gums... get it to a vet and get and blood parasite test.

 

With quick treatment this disease if very easy to cure and the dog will get better in less than a week.  But delay a few days and it gets much more serious. 

[dick dasterdly]

19 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Hi.  Both my small mix breed dogs got this tick blood liver parasite thing.. even though I use frontline and hardly every see a tick on them.

 

The first dog was only a puppy when she got it and nearly died.  The problem is that the dogs seem OK one day and suddenly go downhill fast... and if you wait a day or so to see if they get better the disease has got 100 times worse!.. The had to spend many days in the vest on a drip and was very weak. 

 

That is how I knew what to do when the second dog started showing the same symptoms about a year later.  I noticed when she was less active than normal.. a bit off her food, and her skin felt really hot under her belly.  Also a very important sign is the gums seem to go light pink from lack of blood and they start to breath faster than normal.  I rushed her to the vet and with the early treatment she got better very fast.

 

Then the smaller dog got it a second time.  Again prompt action.  Dog got better.. but the vets made a mistakes with the medication they gave me to take home.. and I was shocked when the dog suddenly got worse about a week later.. going back to the vet they were very rude to me and would not admit their mistake... trying to blame me for not giving the tables they gave to me... despite the fact they never gave them to me!!!  They had to treat the dog again from the start and they even charged me a second time.  The actual vet knew they made the mistake.. but he could not say anything to his boss.. because of the staff dispensing the medication would get into trouble or loose face.  So I now use a different vet.

 

So moral of the story is.. as soon as your dog seems slightly not acting normal, less active and pale gums... get it to a vet and get and blood parasite test.

 

With quick treatment this disease if very easy to cure and the dog will get better in less than a week.  But delay a few days and it gets much more serious. 

Agree (generally) with your post about getting them checked when they're not quite their usual selves, but pale gums indicate that they've gone beyond the 'not quite right' stage?

 

My experience is that imported dogs react badly very quickly (the first time) to tick borne blood parasites.  One day they're 'not quite right', the next day you take them to the vet and find out they're seriously ill .  And this wasn't down to my not paying attention - anyone who knows me will testify that I used to almost hover nervously around my imported dog (came to Thailand with me) for any sign that there was something wrong !

 

Local 'mutts' seem to have some sort of 'resistance' to these parasites insofar as they take far longer to show any symptoms.

 

An annual blood test for these parasites is the best solution IMO - if possible.

[jak2002003]

Yes... I think the street dogs and local village dogs are virtually immune to the disease... because only the strongest and fittest ones survive to have puppies.

 

My 2 dogs are Thai dogs.. but they are just small cross breed... so having a small body probably makes it worse..  and one was only a half grown puppy.