Why is Chicago a murder capital? Clues from a bloody month

[thaihome]

Interesting article giving some historical perspective on Chicago gangs.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_next_20/2016/09/is_chicago_s_ghastly_murder_rate_the_result_of_its_1990s_anti_gang_policies.html

TH 

[righand3256]

This has never been a secret. Democratic mayors in Chicago since 1933, and single mothers, two things that account for many of the problems in most violent areas in cities in the U.S. The democratic party is and has been the party of the poor, and the common man for decades, and what started out as the "New Deal" from President Roosevelt who was responsible for initiatives and programs to help folk's after the Great Depression, quickly turned into an endless opportunity for the crooked democratic politicians to use these programs to set up new ways to rob the taxpayers, and it has been their mission to keep the people poor, so government can put more and more of these useless programs in place. In turn the single mothers in the U.S. have become "married" to the state, to get what little share the government gives them and now has bred generations of mostly uneducated poor mothers who feel empowered by the notion that they do not need a father for their children and can count on the government to take care of their needs, and there is now no male role models for the poor youths and most now feel unable to get out of the desperate lives they live in these so called model cities the democrats have built, and many turn to crime. The vast majority of voiceless, powerless and poor people are concentrated in Detroit, Philadelphia, St. Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, and America’s other large urban centers. All of them are run by democrats and have been for 50 to 100 years. On the democrats’ watch, these cities have become the equivalent of holding cells for the poor and minorities. Everything that’s wrong with America’s cities that can be affected by policy, Democrats are responsible for. There are poor to be helped, but democrats have buried them deeper in poverty and powerlessness. There are minorities who seek opportunities, but democrats have kept them second-class citizens. Democrats have been the problem rather than the solution. It has now become a problem with the Illegal immigrants, who have abused the system as well, and do not care that it is crippling the country.

[Ace of Pop]

Mafia n Blacks Gangs Simple


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Pakboong]

At least they try and keep to their own territory. It is silly I know but,

 

 

they all seem to do it.

[ClutchClark]

26 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

I lived and worked in the US for a year and quickly grew tired of news items about gun deaths and the constant undercurrent of agression in US society.

This was followed by spells working in the UK, France and Germany. It was so nice to walk around in the cities in the evening without wondering if some guy in a doorway would pull a gun, or a traffic incident would end up with a shooting. A lot of Americans are running with a very short fuse.

Sure, there is crime in all countries but the US has around 30000 gun deaths a year - staggering by any standards. Unbelievable that some people think the solution is MORE guns. Achieving a 'polite society' by having everyone scared out their wits doesn't sound very appealing.

 

Its more like 13,000 a year so its only half as bad you imagine.

[dansbkk]

7 hours ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Those ideas all sound good but they've been conspicuous failures in practice.

 

I agree, these programs are almost always total failures.  You can never solve any problem simply by throwing money at it. As long as the

 

1 hour ago, Pdaz said:

Swift capital punishment for convicted murders/shooters and rapists. Compulsory military service for young gangbangers and troublemakers. Chaingangs, hard labour and long custodial sentences for re-offenders. Put the fear of God into them with real zero tolerance policies. In addition offer scholarships and apprentice positions to those who are keen to improve their lot. Help them succeed and give them an alternative to living in a ghetto but punish heavily those who resist joining the larger society. 

 

Pdaz is correct when he advocates better enforcement of existing laws. The books are full of laws against the illegal use of guns, whether the guns are Illegal or legal, punish the offenders.  People on this forum always joke about the small penalties given out in the Thai legal system.  I am from Chicago and I know the punishment for  guns crimes is a real joke. The gang members refer to their jail time as summer vacation.  It is an opportunity to get three meals a day, and a chance to catch up with their old buddies. Why push the problem onto the military.  They don't want the lack of discipline or education in their ranks either. Schools don't help either.. They already have access to all types of school programs but when you don't bother to show up at school , what difference does it make.

The best solution is more family involvement, both mothers and fathers in their lives.They need better involvement from the local community. Now nobody see nothin'. They don't want to be seen as a snitch or a rat. 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Because they're not wild game, they're human beings.

I agree with the people that see black on black violence as a big issue, but racist trumpian "alt-right" solutions are no solution at all. 

No, I don't have quick and easy answers either. 

whether black white or hispano, gang members who see violence as cool and killing as even cooler are deadbeats without a future,they will be killing and drug dealing for the rest of their miserable lives,let them fight it out, i don't care what happens to them 

[ClutchClark]

Isn't obama from Chicago?

 

I seem to recall Mayor Rahm and his brother are very much involved with the obama DNC machine.

 

What an interesting coincidence.

 

I wonder who barak and michelle have felt no special hometown desire to address this plague in the city they have so long called home.

 

Come to think of it, these dead people often look like obamas son...if he had a son. Wasn't that the criteria he used in the police shootings?

[copa8]

10 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Cheaper to live/more poverty/gangs in parts of Chicago than other cities? Overall, just the nature of the beast... the States was born by the gun and is still a very young country. Not having a dig, but most of its big cities are violent -- I've been to more US cities than probably most Americans. Although populations are much lower, look how relatively peaceful Canada and Australia are. Get rid of your guns, guys.

 

Not much gun violence in higher density countries/territories like Japan, HK, Singapore, etc.

[Grubster]

I am from Chicago. We had the Federal Government build some huge high-rise  housing projects in several areas of the city in the mid 60,s. These were filled with low income black families. Big mistake, they turned into war zones immediately and were until they tore them all down recently. They had to pass laws to force taxi drivers to go to these projects as they risked life and limb. Now they have moved those families all around the Chicago land area. There are several areas in Chicago that you just don't go to or thru. The blacks in these areas kill each other routinely, the police are scared out of their minds when they have to go there. Anything you say or do about it will be deemed racist. The rest of the city is very clean, nice, safe, friendly, prosperous, etc. etc.  We can never live slavery down. The race war is starting soon I fear.

[Silurian]

16 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I am from Chicago. We had the Federal Government build some huge high-rise  housing projects in several areas of the city in the mid 60,s. These were filled with low income black families. Big mistake, they turned into war zones immediately and were until they tore them all down recently. 

 

Ah, I remember Cabrini-Green housing area. When I live in Chicago-land in the mid-80's, I accidentally drove into the Cabrini-Green area and my friend almost had an aneurysm. He kept telling me to leave immediately or we would get shot. It scared the heck out of me. Needless to say, nothing happened and we returned to the tollway. But to this day, I still remember it.

 

[eddie61]

13 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Cheaper to live/more poverty/gangs in parts of Chicago than other cities? Overall, just the nature of the beast... the States was born by the gun and is still a very young country. Not having a dig, but most of its big cities are violent -- I've been to more US cities than probably most Americans. Although populations are much lower, look how relatively peaceful Canada and Australia are. Get rid of your guns, guys.

 

Would cotton grow in Chicago?

[alofthailand]

Evolution at work for those who avoided the Abortion mills. 

[alofthailand]

2 hours ago, Grubster said:

I am from Chicago. We had the Federal Government build some huge high-rise  housing projects in several areas of the city in the mid 60,s. These were filled with low income black families. Big mistake, they turned into war zones immediately and were until they tore them all down recently. They had to pass laws to force taxi drivers to go to these projects as they risked life and limb. Now they have moved those families all around the Chicago land area. There are several areas in Chicago that you just don't go to or thru. The blacks in these areas kill each other routinely, the police are scared out of their minds when they have to go there. Anything you say or do about it will be deemed racist. The rest of the city is very clean, nice, safe, friendly, prosperous, etc. etc.  We can never live slavery down. The race war is starting soon I fear.

The blacks are not just living with the humiliation of historical defeat but the knowledge their own people sold them into slavery. But BLM don't like to think about such issues- easier to blame whitey.

[HauptmannUK]

6 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Its more like 13,000 a year so its only half as bad you imagine.

32 000 per year according to this article in Forbes....http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/08/26/americas-gun-violence-problem-in-three-charts/#76ebd92558b7

[ClutchClark]

25 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

32 000 per year according to this article in Forbes....http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiamond/2015/08/26/americas-gun-violence-problem-in-three-charts/#76ebd92558b7

 

There are about 20,000 suicides each yer by gun that I did not include. 

 

I only included homicides and also justified shootings. 

[rapom]

34 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

I lived and worked in the US for a year and quickly grew tired of news items about gun deaths and the constant undercurrent of agression in US society.

This was followed by spells working in the UK, France and Germany. It was so nice to walk around in the cities in the evening without wondering if some guy in a doorway would pull a gun, or a traffic incident would end up with a shooting. A lot of Americans are running with a very short fuse.

Sure, there is crime in all countries but the US has around 30000 gun deaths a year - staggering by any standards. Unbelievable that some people think the solution is MORE guns. Achieving a 'polite society' by having everyone scared out their wits doesn't sound very appealing.

3

You are right, the solution is more guns.  Every law-abiding citizen should own at least 3,a handgun, a 12 gauge shotgun, a semi-auto rifle.and be proficient in their operation and use.They should be allowed to  possess them in their home, in their vehicle and on their or about their person, if they so wish.  Law abiding citizens should be able to sleep in their bed, travel for business or pleasure and interact socially without fearing for their safety and of that of their family. Criminals prey on the weak and unprepared, those that put themselves in harm's way by not being aware of surroundings and not practicing due diligence. The situation in Chicago and other cities with high crime rates are due mostly to our judicial system and state and federal government. We have prosecutors that plea bargain cases to reduce case load. We have courts that reduce prison sentences for guilty pleas or grant far too many paroles for career criminals. Our federal courts have made prisons into country clubs with all the comforts of home. Prisoners have no fear of committing crime after their release.  Criminals that commit serious crimes should be given lengthy sentences without parole. Murderers and rapists should never be introduced back into society. All gang members should be put into prison, till they are too old to be gangbangers. Oh yes, I do believe in gun control. All shots in the center of the chest. 

 

 

e

 

 

 

 

                                                      

[ClutchClark]

2 minutes ago, rapom said:

You are right, the solution is more guns.  Every law-abiding citizen should own at least 3,a handgun, a 12 gauge shotgun, a semi-auto rifle.and be proficient in their operation and use.They should be allowed to  possess them in their home, in their vehicle and on their or about their person, if they so wish.  Law abiding citizens should be able to sleep in their bed, travel for business or pleasure and interact socially without fearing for their safety and of that of their family. Criminals prey on the weak and unprepared, those that put themselves in harm's way by not being aware of surroundings and not practicing due diligence. The situation in Chicago and other cities with high crime rates are due mostly to our judicial system and state and federal government. We have prosecutors that plea bargain cases to reduce case load. We have courts that reduce prison sentences for guilty pleas or grant far too many paroles for career criminals. Our federal courts have made prisons into country clubs with all the comforts of home. Prisoners have no fear of committing crime after their release.  Criminals that commit serious crimes should be given lengthy sentences without parole. Murderers and rapists should never be introduced back into society. All gang members should be put into prison, till they are too old to be gangbangers. Oh yes, I do believe in gun control. All shots in the center of the chest. 

 

 

e

 

 

 

 

                                                      

 

Rapom,

 

I see you are still building your thread count so you may not realize you are free to speak your mind at this forum...you don't have to "sugarcoat" it or hold anything back. 

 

Just tell us how you really feel. 

 

 

[jacksam]

Of course USA gun laws have nothing to do with the problems. In AU for exampleit would be very difficult to purchase a hand gun or semi- auto assault rifle. Even if you could they are illegal. In USA just nip into a walmart

[metisdead]

An off topic obfuscation post with inappropriate language has been removed. 

[Pakboong]

It is far more dangerous in the south side of Chicago than it is in the Gaza strip. Slightly different reasons of course but the populations are about the same.

[crankshaft]

23 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Cheaper to live/more poverty/gangs in parts of Chicago than other cities? Overall, just the nature of the beast... the States was born by the gun and is still a very young country. Not having a dig, but most of its big cities are violent -- I've been to more US cities than probably most Americans. Although populations are much lower, look how relatively peaceful Canada and Australia are. Get rid of your guns, guys.

Yeah I'm sure the gang types are going to give up their guns...

[OMGImInPattaya]

16 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

I lived and worked in the US for a year and quickly grew tired of news items about gun deaths and the constant undercurrent of agression in US society.

This was followed by spells working in the UK, France and Germany. It was so nice to walk around in the cities in the evening without wondering if some guy in a doorway would pull a gun, or a traffic incident would end up with a shooting. A lot of Americans are running with a very short fuse.

Sure, there is crime in all countries but the US has around 30000 gun deaths a year - staggering by any standards. Unbelievable that some people think the solution is MORE guns. Achieving a 'polite society' by having everyone scared out their wits doesn't sound very appealing.

Two-thirds of those "gun deaths" are suicides...but nice try. I bet those people in Nice felt the same as you too.

[dontoearth]

23 hours ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Those ideas all sound good but they've been conspicuous failures in practice.

 

     Those ideas have been highly successful.  Unfortunately, the long recession has killed off even essential social services in most of the big cities.  I live in Chicago and shamefully our oldest social service agency James Addams Hull House even closed up a few years ago.  The story is a from a right wing conservative rag of the 'blame the victim variety'.  Crain's Chicago Business.   They certainly didn't delve into the decreasing level of social safety net services over the last decade in those neighbors VS the now surging crime rates.  They might not find cause without digging deep and doing lots of investigative reporting but correlation is certainly there!  Much easier to write up some idiot one simple example says it all type of tripe.  I long for the days when investigative journalist took it seriously and did a year or more of work and published 20-30-40 articles to give an in-depth view.  Sadly, this kind of one story funded nonsense leading conservatives to whistle and say "That is just those people"  is all Koch brother aligned papers seem to run.

      You would think that a paper like this might like to do some economic work?  NO?    A little analysis or what our lack of social service spending is TRULY costing us.  I am sure the conservative overlords will not enjoy reading a story like that.

[dontoearth]

17 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

As was stated previously these neighborhoods have received huge investments since the 1970's in the form of community centers and after-school programs ad nauseum. 

 

Yet this violence continues.

      U r mistaken!  Deinvestment is all these neighborhoods have seen since the 1960's.  The type of things one of the posters mentioned earlier like 'after school programs, sports, clubs, supervised park recreation, mentoring and civic involvement' just don't exist in these neighborhoods.  That is exactly what the mother was saying.  She wanted to move to Willmette (rich affluent with good schools and unbelievable services).   A simple drive thru this neighborhood would not show you any of these services in existence at all!  I live in Chicago and have lived there for 35 years.  These places don't have any of the ad nauseum you are referring too at all. 

[righand3256]

4 hours ago, jacksam said:

Of course USA gun laws have nothing to do with the problems. In AU for exampleit would be very difficult to purchase a hand gun or semi- auto assault rifle. Even if you could they are illegal. In USA just nip into a walmart

uh no, there is no nipping in anywhere to buy a gun. The left media and politicians try to make it sound easy, but you will not be leaving walmart or a gun show, gun shop, etc. the same day you purchase a weapon, and if you think different, then you are very misinformed.

YOU CAN'T BUY A GUN IF: you are a felon, you have been in a psychiatric facility in the last five years, have been ruled mentally disabled or "defective," have restraining orders against you, have been convicted of a violent crime in the last five years, have failed a drug test in the last year, or are not an American citizen. To purchase a gun legally in Chicago you'll have to leave the city itself—there's nowhere to buy a gun in Chicago proper.

Edited October 1, 2016 by righand3256

[The Old Bull]

18 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Swift capital punishment for convicted murders/shooters and rapists. Compulsory military service for young gangbangers and troublemakers. Chaingangs, hard labour and long custodial sentences for re-offenders. Put the fear of God into them with real zero tolerance policies. In addition offer scholarships and apprentice positions to those who are keen to improve their lot. Help them succeed and give them an alternative to living in a ghetto but punish heavily those who resist joining the larger society. 

 

They did that two hundred years ago, didn't do much good. Offenders to not contemplate the consequences of their actions, some just do what makes them feel good at the time the others believe they will not be caught.

[rapom]

10 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Rapom,

 

I see you are still building your thread count so you may not realize you are free to speak your mind at this forum...you don't have to "sugarcoat" it or hold anything back. 

 

Just tell us how you really feel. 

 

 

1

Apparently you are not allowed to speak your mind,  if a moderarator does not like it's content. I replied to your post and it was deleleted, the reasons being off topic wth inappropriate language.  There were no inappropiate words, no vulgar words or any content that has not been discussed on this forum many times in the past or in the posts made after my deletion. It appears that maybe the moderators are restricting information to prevent readers from reading the truth about themselves or maybe they themselves fall into one of the catagroies that I included in my post. I have never made a post that was disrespecful to any Thai person, the current government or current political situation. This is not my country to do so, but those types of content seem to be appropriate on TV, but it is apparent that non US citizens can post derogatory or offensive commits about US politics and policies without restraint. This is bias and it should not be.   

[rapom]

I would also like to add that if anyone would like to read the deleted content they can PM me. I will replied to the first two requests, then they can spread the word, if they choose.

[ClutchClark]

On September 30, 2016 at 10:27 PM, dontoearth said:

      U r mistaken!  Deinvestment is all these neighborhoods have seen since the 1960's.  The type of things one of the posters mentioned earlier like 'after school programs, sports, clubs, supervised park recreation, mentoring and civic involvement' just don't exist in these neighborhoods.  That is exactly what the mother was saying.  She wanted to move to Willmette (rich affluent with good schools and unbelievable services).   A simple drive thru this neighborhood would not show you any of these services in existence at all!  I live in Chicago and have lived there for 35 years.  These places don't have any of the ad nauseum you are referring too at all. 

 

I should have said "community" rather than "neighborhood". The AA community has received a disproportionate amount of welfare and community-building monies.

 

The mother wanted to move to Wilmette? 

 

Who wouldn't like to move to Wilmette? As you say its a very affluent North Shore suburb. What type of work did the mother do to afford moving there ?