Trump may not have paid income tax for 18 years

[Ulysses G.]

3 minutes ago, silent said:

 

Change the word "cheating" which is more within his limited vocabulary than "taking advantages provided by the system through advice from accountants" would ever be and that's as close to any admission you ever get from a covert narcissist. 

 

 In other words, the false claim that he "admitted" cheating the system is nothing but slander.

[OMGImInPattaya]

10 minutes ago, Neurath said:

Wow, he must have released his tax returns to you. 

No, these are just taxes than any business must pay, for which there are not offset provisions. As the NYT has acknowledged,  500,000 other taxpayers filed returns with offsets for loss carry fowards in the same year Trump did...it's a commonly used tax code provision.  I myself have used it for years due to a stock market loss once.

[OMGImInPattaya]

17 minutes ago, Silurian said:

 

Actually, we don't know if Trump's employees benefited or not. We can only speculate until tax returns and financial documents are produced showing how this carry forward loss was used. Though we can know for sure that it benefited Trump alone in the year he declared the loss against his own personal income. How this business loss was used in future years and who it exactly benefits, we currently do not know.

They're employed are they not?

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, LannaGuy said:

 

what "cheated"?  that's defamation!  he broke the LAW?  prove it, links?  

 

 Exactly - nothing but a false claim with no evidence to back it up.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   The topic is about Trump and his taxes.  

 

Stay on topic.  

[Silurian]

25 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

They're employed are they not?

 

Actually, we do not know if the companies that had the loss are still in business. A number of his businesses closed around this time among several real estate deals failing. We also don't know if any of the employees were let go due to these business losses. To generally state they are still employed is not based on facts. More likely, some (if not a lot) were let go.

 

In Trump's own words he stated that the 1990s business failings (bankruptcies at his casinos in Atlantic City, disastrous real estate deals in Manhattan) were just fodder for an epic comeback. Fodder: resources (including people) considered as readily available and of little value. So he thought so little of the damage done by his losses, that he considers it just fodder. I feel sorry for those people that were just "fodder" for Trump's success.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Silurian

[CaptHaddock]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

So?  I too have had some capital losses and was able to bunch them up in the same year.  Not millions but about 35,000.  The IRS let me write those losses off against any capital gains every year, until the loss is zeroed out.  For several years in a row, although for each year I had some capital gains, I was able to legally and simply write them off, and declare a net 3,000 loss.  The losses can be carried forward indefinitely until they run out, for an individual anyway.  Now, for a business or a corporation, I thought there were some rules that if you didn't make money for 3 or 4 years in a row you had to change status?  Maybe that was just an individual LLC.  Of course we don't know what Trump did for taxes for the other years.  But you can't fault the guy for having good accountants.  Maybe fault the IRS for doing lousy audits? 

 

Trump's billion dollar loss in one year was an operating loss, not a capital loss, which is worse for his reputation as a businessman.  His subsequent carryovers were not limited to $3000/year.

[Andaman Al]

Some perspective from someone that has a better outlook on this than all of us. Balanced and too the point.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

All the thousands of employees of Trump's various enterprises. 

 

All those Chinese and Mexicans who make his low quality products?

[Credo]

So while Donald shrewdly manipulates the tax codes, he leave contractors and employees unpaid and their businesses to go bankrupt.   

 

A very dishonorable person, IMO, and not someone I want looking out for the welfare of the American people.   

[silent]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 In other words, the false claim that he "admitted" cheating the system is nothing but slander.

 

In other words I'm not getting involved in the he said she said here. Just pointing out that many times people misinterpret what someone says for their subjectivity with no objectivity which is all both candidates have to count on. The only question remaining for the electorate in this one is which one has the most vile record and mouth. Personally I'm noticing that Hillary's slicing and dicing techniques have had to be lowered somewhat. 

[Autonuaq]

What is wrong if Trump follows the rules that apply and give him the possibility of deduction over ea period of time.

As long as all is legal and follow the rules made by others what is wrong with that?

 

Who now probably accuse Trump are probably the same people who were involved in making the rules following their rules on this deduction.

The IRS did check his statement of 2008 and did approve that. So what is wrong?

 

 

[thaihome]

The issue is Trump is a hypocritical demogue. If you think that does not disqualify him to be president, that is your choice. But to say it's not true is just being disingenuous. 

TH

 

9 Times Donald Trump Complained About Taxes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/us/politics/trump-taxes-twitter.html?ref=politics

[TEFLKrabi]

3 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Let's say you are right. It still makes him an incredibly SUCCESSFULLY con man. Not paying any taxes legally sounds pretty smart to me

 

Glad you admit it finally. A con man, successful or not, is a man who does something illegal :)

[StevieH]

it is really funny watching trump supporters go to any lengths to defend him. like he himself said months ago, he could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot someone and not lose any votes. that's how much he's making mugs of you. there's nothing he could do that you wouldn't still support him. he's laughing at you, almost certainly thinks you are "losers" in his terms and still you steadfastly support a man who is clearly appalling in every conceivable way. he isn't even a conservative. yet still you go into bat for him. which i guarantee he won't for you should he somehow win. then you really will be losers and he'll screw over the entire country, including those who thought he was their guy, and look after nobody but himself.

[Ulysses G.]

10 minutes ago, TEFLKrabi said:

 

Glad you admit it finally. A con man, successful or not, is a man who does something illegal :)

 

Learn to read. I did not "admit" anything. 

[lostinisaan]

5 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

He has royally cheated the system and he admits it.  He doesn't deserve to drive on roads or bridges.  He's paid less for taxes than any janitor.  Everything he's achieved has been with other peoples' money and by cheating.

 

    But it's okay when he flies in one of his Lear Jets, right? You seem to be a little streety and bridgy, dude. 

[lostinisaan]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Learn to read. I did not "admit" anything. 

 

 I admit. 

[keemapoot]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Learn to read. I did not "admit" anything. 

 

Unless I misread your post, or you neglected to put "con man" in quotes (see there, gave you an out) you are an ardent Trump supporter who called your own candidate a con man. That sounds like an admission.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Yep.

 

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/tax-plan

That's not tax reform.

[Basil B]

4 companies under his control bankrupted...

 

Quote

And while Trump is quick to boast that his purported billions prove his business acumen, his net worth is almost unknowable given the loose standards and numerous outright misrepresentations he has made over the years. In that 2007 deposition, Trump said he based estimates of his net worth at times on “psychology” and “my own feelings.” But those feelings are often wrong—in 2004, he presented unaudited financials to Deutsche Bank while seeking a loan, claiming he was worth $3.5 billion. The bank concluded Trump was, to say the least, puffing; it put his net worth at $788 million, records show. (Trump personally guaranteed $40 million of the loan to his company, so Deutsche coughed up the money. He later defaulted on that commitment.)

http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091?rm=eu

 

Bet that hit many peoples pension funds...

 

And some people still think he is fit to be president.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Basil B

[Pinot]

7 minutes ago, StevieH said:

it is really funny watching trump supporters go to any lengths to defend him. like he himself said months ago, he could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot someone and not lose any votes. that's how much he's making mugs of you. there's nothing he could do that you wouldn't still support him. he's laughing at you, almost certainly thinks you are "losers" in his terms and still you steadfastly support a man who is clearly appalling in every conceivable way. he isn't even a conservative. yet still you go into bat for him. which i guarantee he won't for you should he somehow win. then you really will be losers and he'll screw over the entire country, including those who thought he was their guy, and look after nobody but himself.

 

Trump not paying taxes will only make his base love him all the more. The deplorables that don't pay taxes either and the ones that rail against taxes and the guvmint. He is a hero to them! Republicans are easy pickings for sniffles.

 

Twisting logic into a pretzel to justify Trump's bullshit. Not paying taxes equates to being a good businessman? 

 

The issue is someone running, to the degree you could say he's running on any kind of recognizable platform, on a platform of his success as a business man, lost a billion dollars at time of one of great economic booms. He's a failure as a businessman, a YUGE failure. 

 

Here is how this all went down:

-Trump agreed to forgo his future right to take about $1 billion worth of depreciation on his casino hotels.

-This exchange created a future problem for Trump. Real estate that cannot be depreciated is worth a lot less. Indeed, generous tax benefits drive real-estate investment. So while Trump escaped an immediate income-tax bill, the future tax benefits he gave up would mean that he would likely have to pay income taxes on his salary, fees for licensing his name, and other income.

-To solve this problem, Trump sold stock for the first time in 1995. He founded Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts, which then took ownership of his casino hotels.

 

That meant Trump got money for selling his casino hotels, while the investors got real estate with greatly diminished tax benefits. This is a very sleazy deal and shows where trusting this "Businessman" will get you. 

 

He's a con man, a liar, a bigot, a misogynist, xenophobic, thin skinned and completely ignorant of how government works and the world works. Doesn't care about anything but himself and not interested in finding out. 

 

THE worst candidate for President in history.

 

Keep doing what your doing Trump. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[boomerangutang]

When Trump loses nearly 1 billion $$s, that's not only his investments he's losing.  It's mostly investors' money he's pissing down the gutter.  He's renown for pissing away investor money.  That's part of what enabled him to slink out of Atlantic City with his tail between his legs after bankrupting 3 casino resorts and leaving hundreds of contractors unpaid for work done.   Also, if he lost nearly 1 billion in that one year in the 1990's, then how many more billions has he lost in ensuing years?  An average of 1 billion per year?  ....again, that would mostly investors' and bank (account holders') money.  Currently, the general public only have that one year's statement (thanks sincerely to NYT') from the 1990's.  How do we know he hasn't dug a deeper hole for himself in the past 20 years?   That's just one of several grave reasons I don't want a man like Trump anywhere near the halls of power.   

 

4 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Let's say you are right. It still makes him an incredibly SUCCESSFULLY con man. Not paying any taxes legally sounds pretty smart to me

 

You're impressed by a lifelong con man.  I'm not.

[StevieH]

13 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

You're impressed by a lifelong con man.  I'm not.

 

well this is it. the defence they're mounting of "IT WASN'T STEALING, IT WAS LEGAL!" while technically correct kind of looks a bit foolish when you consider that the taxes he's avoiding are taking money away from schools, troops, cops, firefighters, roads - all that critical infrastructure that non-billionaire americans rely on to live their lives.

 

so keep telling yourselves trump wasn't stealing. keep being impressed by a con man who has screwed over those he now considers his base. but taking money away from kids, cops and the poor doesn't make you "smart". it makes you scum.

 

 

[Strange]

12 minutes ago, StevieH said:

 

well this is it. the defence they're mounting of "IT WASN'T STEALING, IT WAS LEGAL!" while technically correct kind of looks a bit foolish when you consider that the taxes he's avoiding are taking money away from schools, troops, cops, firefighters, roads - all that critical infrastructure that non-billionaire americans rely on to live their lives.

 

so keep telling yourselves trump wasn't stealing. keep being impressed by a con man who has screwed over those he now considers his base. but taking money away from kids, cops and the poor doesn't make you "smart". it makes you scum.

 

So im scum for trying to save as much as possible by utilizing the tax code legally? I don't agree, but you can always pay more tax if you feel like its a charity. 

 

If people don't like it, then they need to change some laws and not accuse the people following the law and utilizing the tax code legally of being scum. 

 

Dems have been knowing about this for the last 8 years (and longer) and have not done anything about it. What makes you think Hillary will be able to do something? Her impeccable character?

 

Honestly can not see how doing something legally as a businessman is considered scummy. Honest to god 99% of us are probably doing it now, and completely happy with it. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Strange

[boomerangutang]

15 minutes ago, Strange said:

So im scum for trying to save as much as possible by utilizing the tax code legally? I don't agree, but you can always pay more tax if you feel like its a charity.  If people don't like it, then they need to change some laws and not accuse the people following the law and utilizing the tax code legally of being scum.  Dems have been knowing about this for the last 8 years (and longer) and have not done anything about it. What makes you think Hillary will be able to do something? Her impeccable character?  Honestly can not see how doing something legally as a businessman is considered scummy. Honest to go 99% of us are probably doing it now, and completely happy with it. 

 

If you think cheating is smart, then you probably love Trump.   For people I influence, I teach them that cheating is wrong.  That's one of many differences between me and Trump.  Another is I've had no debt in the past 35 years.   I believe in paying as I go and living modestly.  That's another way I'm opposite to Trump.  I'm also a gentleman.   I don't call names, I try not to offend people.  All that is alien to Trump.  He enjoys denigrating people, cheating workers, borrowing insane amounts of money, not paying back, .....such things which make him unfit to be president of a dog pound. He would starve the dogs to save on dog food, embezzle the funds, sell the building clandestinely and, when he's about to be busted, he'd sell the dogs to a Vietnamese shoe leather company, and move to another city.  When authorities caught up with him, he'd say, "Hey, I'm smart.  What'ch you gonna do about it?  I know lots of mafia dons.  I'm worth many many billions of dollars.  You wanna take me to court.  Ha, hundreds of people have taken me to court.  Look what good it did them.  I'll countersue you for fifty million dollars.  My son cuts tails off of elephants. I know lots of very powerful people.   You want that?  No problem.  Go ahead and sue me.  I welcome it.   If you live to 250, you may get a few bucks from my estate, ha ha ha."

Edited October 4, 2016 by boomerangutang

[Strange]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

17 minutes ago, Strange said:

So im scum for trying to save as much as possible by utilizing the tax code legally? I don't agree, but you can always pay more tax if you feel like its a charity.  If people don't like it, then they need to change some laws and not accuse the people following the law and utilizing the tax code legally of being scum.  Dems have been knowing about this for the last 8 years (and longer) and have not done anything about it. What makes you think Hillary will be able to do something? Her impeccable character?  Honestly can not see how doing something legally as a businessman is considered scummy. Honest to go 99% of us are probably doing it now, and completely happy with it. 

 

If you think cheating is smart, they you probably love Trump.   For myself and for people I influence, I teach them that cheating is wrong.  That's one of many differences between me and Trump.  Another is I've had no debt in the past 35 years.   I believe in paying as I go and living modestly.  That's another way I'm opposite to Trump.  I'm also a gentleman.   I don't call names, I try not to offend people.  All that is alien to Trump.  He enjoys denigrating people, cheating workers, borrowing insane amounts of money, not paying back, .....such things which make him unfit to be president of a dog pound. He would starve the dogs to save on dog food, embezzle the funds, sell the building clandestinely and, when he's about to be busted, he'd sell the dogs to a Vietnamese shoe leather company, and move to another city.  

 

You are going off on a tangent about yourself (sorry don't care) and your opinion of Trump. 

 

How is it cheating if its completely legal? 

 

HOW IS IT CHEATING IF ITS LEGAL?

 

 

 

[StevieH]

22 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

So im scum for trying to save as much as possible by utilizing the tax code legally? I don't agree, but you can always pay more tax if you feel like its a charity. 

 

If people don't like it, then they need to change some laws and not accuse the people following the law and utilizing the tax code legally of being scum. 

 

Dems have been knowing about this for the last 8 years (and longer) and have not done anything about it. What makes you think Hillary will be able to do something? Her impeccable character?

 

Honestly can not see how doing something legally as a businessman is considered scummy. Honest to god 99% of us are probably doing it now, and completely happy with it. 

 

sure, the tax code is broken and needs fixing. and that at this point is nothing to do with hillary clinton (who incidentally has paid her income taxes and released her tax returns to show so). bill gates pays his income tax. so does larry ellison. so do many other billionaires who know that it's the right thing to do, that it's a vital requirement if you want a functioning country and society and that to not do so doesn't make you "smart". it makes you someone who is withholding money you are morally supposed to pay - and you know this in your heart - and taking it from the pockets from those hundreds of millions of ordinary non-billionaire americans who pay theirs. 

 

but like i say, keep telling yourself that he wasn't stealing from anyone, that he wasn't gaming the system and that he absolutely has the best interests of republican voters at heart. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by StevieH

[Neurath]

2 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

No, these are just taxes than any business must pay, for which there are not offset provisions. As the NYT has acknowledged,  500,000 other taxpayers filed returns with offsets for loss carry fowards in the same year Trump did...it's a commonly used tax code provision.  I myself have used it for years due to a stock market loss once.

On this reckoning those 50% of American's who "pay no tax" have also been doing so. With these people it seems that shitsippers want to claim they pay no taxes because of what they receive back from the government - that is, the dollar value of what they receive is greater than their tax bill. But it seems that the same reckoning is not to be dealt to Donald. 

[OMGImInPattaya]

1 minute ago, Neurath said:

On this reckoning those 50% of American's who "pay no tax" have also been doing so. With these people it seems that shitsippers want to claim they pay no taxes because of what they receive back from the government - that is, the dollar value of what they receive is greater than their tax bill. But it seems that the same reckoning is not to be dealt to Donald. 

I'm sorry but I didn't understand a word of what you wrote...something about people and the tax code?

 

It may come as a shock to many, but some people have economic lives such that they don't file Form 1040-EZ tax returns.